4e ruleset any news on supporting? Potential purchase [Archive]

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totalgeek

June 22nd, 2008, 05:35

Sorontar

June 22nd, 2008, 11:47

I came across this site from FUM and noticed that there is mention of a 4e ruleset made by JPG. However, is there going to be official 4e support? If not has anyone ran any 4e games using the JPG ruleset? I'm interested in purchasing FG2 and would like to start some serious sessions as a DM, but before I do so would just like to know if there will ever be official support.

I see the devs metion 4e every so often, but I haven't see anything official announced unless I missed it during my lurk sections but if an official FG2 user says they have used the other available ruleset I'm all over FG2, I would much prefer to pay a 1 time payment then a monthly fee.

If VOIP is necessary I will integrate Ventrilo or SKYPE or something else. 3D board for D&Di sounds good but I don't know if its worth the monthly.

TIA for any advice and/or help!

The GSL has only just been released and has left more questions than answers for Smiteworks with regards to a 4ed character sheet/ruleset. They are currently in the process of quizzing WotC on GSL and non-GSL production (non-GSL being withing copyright law but not signing your first born away).

With regards to the 4ed ruleset you may have seen on FUM, I have seen it working and although it has certain issues and is far from complete (data entry required on DMs behalf), it will get the job done. There also appears to be a good old bunch of folks beavering away to resolve those issues and add more whistles and bells to it.

So nothing concrete there but it's as much as I know.

totalgeek

June 22nd, 2008, 14:04

Thats fine with me Sorontar as far as the sheet on FUM working. If it does require data entry from the DM, which would be me, I can live with that for now. I appreciate your quick reply and honesty in regards to what you know.

I just want something 'playable' even if it is not complete and requires work to use. Is there an official Smiteworks thread or should I just watch all their announcments to figure out what path Smiteworks themselves will take with in regards to 4e implementation?

Sorontar

June 22nd, 2008, 14:23

I'd think that you'd be best watching the Announcements for anything concrete, no doubt once they have something back Goblin-King will be on letting us know the score.

If you want to see the 4ed sheet in action, I've just noticed Scytale is running an open session, why don't you drop in on that if you are free. I was a reserve for his game yesterday but he let me ghost it to see the ruleset in action.

totalgeek

June 22nd, 2008, 23:25

Will do Sorontar, hopefully these boards support PMs. I would be honored if he would let me ghost his session. Can I do this with the demo?

Even if Fantasy Grounds 2 didn't have 4e capability the demo doesn't allow me to change 'rulesets' so I can't even figure out if I can wrap my head around LUA to change FG2. I am a JAVA/C++ by profession.

Just noticed the time on the game, it looks like I may have missed it. I live in Pacific Standard Time.

Valarian

June 22nd, 2008, 23:28

Check out the library section for information on ruleset modification. There are links to the Lua reference documentation and manuals. I don't think you'll have to much difficulty with the Lua scripting language. My main problem has been trying to get my head around the libraries available and the structure of the rulesets themselves. There's quite a few people here who have knowledge of the code though.

Sorontar

June 23rd, 2008, 00:13

Will do Sorontar, hopefully these boards support PMs. I would be honored if he would let me ghost his session. Can I do this with the demo?

Ah, and in my eagerness to get you to see 4ed playing I completely glossed over the fact you don't own FG2 yet. Anyway no harm done as you were probably in the land of nod when they started :)

totalgeek

June 23rd, 2008, 02:53

Sorontar I appreciate the eagerness, that is one of the reason I'm 'heavily' leaning towards purchasing this program. The helpfulness of the community. As I said even if Smiteworks doesn't officially support 4e, but there is 3rd party support, or if I can just the game into 'generic' mode in which I control everything (bonuses to rolls, stats check, spell powers) then I would be good to go.

scytale2

June 23rd, 2008, 11:19

A personal opinion, I know, but I really think purchase of FG2 is a no brainer. It's incredibly cheap and incredibly flexible.

Re- 4th edition - well FG2 is made to run it. In fact, it's really more suitable for 4th ed, than 3.5 due to the edition's higher focus on tactical battles, which FG2 accomplishes really well. Sorry you didn't make it to observe the game yesterday (or Saturday). The ruleset ran pretty smoothly. The data entry is not so bad, once you get used to it, as long as you're careful what you type. The author has done some great stuff in delivering the power system.

FG2 does seem to have a problem with single figure damage, so 4th ed minions do cause a slight problem, but a hotkey solves that.

Lastly, as people have mentioned, FG2, with some tweaking, handles ANY system out there, not just D&D, so the longevity is there. I've noticed a lot of people coming back to the hobby with 4e, so I hope this gives FG2 a boost too. Since I bought it, though, finding a game to play or DM has been very straightforward.

totalgeek

June 23rd, 2008, 16:48

Thanks, scytale2, I appreciate your opinion and candor. I'm heavily leaning towards purchasing it and finding a 4e game to participate even if its a one-off. But I'm eager to host my own campaigns and games. I like to DM it gives me control over the entire world, not a control freak, but I love being able to 'create' something that other people enjoy.

Another question was going to be how hard it would be to find PCs and DMs it seems from you have posted, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that there is a lot of people who not only DM but play, is this correct? The only problem with the system I saw, was that both player and DM had to pay, so I don't know if I can get my regular group to come no board, as they're cheap. However, if I can purchase and find PCs then I'm more then eager to jump aboard the FG2 bandwagon.

Plus, I love what DNDi is proposing but I can't stand the pricing model. $15/month is a little to steep for me, since I've bought the core books, and to convice my players to pay. However, a one time payment to FG2 sounds good. Is the central server for FG2 pay per month, or once you have purchased it, you can use indefinetly? I figure I can find the answer to that somewhere on this website.

Thanks, all!

Sorontar

June 23rd, 2008, 17:07

Griogre

June 23rd, 2008, 22:44

I'll take a shot at how hard it is to find players. It's pretty easy if you are running a main stream game at a time friendly to the Americas or Western Europe. There are always more players than GM's. I don't think you would have much problem finding players for a game of 4th Ed.

However the good news is you don't have to take anyone's word for it because you can go onto the Guild Hall message board yourself. Take a look at how many posts happen a day. Go back to a day a few weeks ago and look at people looking for and posting they have a game available. See how long it takes to fill a game.

I've been running long enough that I can guess pretty close about how many page reads it will take to find a player. And it is easier to recruit more than one player because like in face to face games - players come in groups. :)

There is a downside of Internet play. The dark side of online play is that sometimes players, and GM's too, just vanish. Here today - then gone with no warning.

totalgeek

June 24th, 2008, 00:18

...
There is a downside of Internet play. The dark side of online play is that sometimes players, and GM's too, just vanish. Here today - then gone with no warning.

Thanks for the warning. I know it happened to me I would be lying if I said this was my first experience with VTT. I was a player on a couple of games on OpenRPG awhile back and the DM/GM just 'vanished'. I don't wish to do that with my players what I'm looking to do is create a world that flows and moves, and if someone leaves someone else can jump in either with the same character or re-roll their own.

I'm talking about a semi-investment in my time and some financial expenses as I would like this game world based on D&D 4e, but evaluating Savage Worlds as I see that has 'full' support in FG2, to be used by others and its history to be documented.

Here's what I'm already procuring:

website
domain name
Campaign Cartographer 3/Dundjinni for maps
Ventrilo (maybe for VOIP I don't know yet)
Core rule set for 4E (already purchased love rolling new characters)
Dictation software (Dragon Naturally speaking seeing if I can integrate its use with FG2 so I can type faster to keep the characters interest)
Writing history for the current village set
Gameworld will provide overarching storyline, maybe to run concurrent with different campaigns with different people and support one offs
Player input will be valued and I will devote time in order for characters to do quests outside of main meeting time. (For example, Rogue wants to break into royal person's room to get some info. I will create quest talk with PC playing ROG to schedule time outside of main meeting to do quest)

and a VTT, so far FG2 has my vote!

I know it will be hard to accomplish especially with the quality of games and DMs here, but I'm going to try. When you are 30+ of age, have a son eager to play D&D, and have no life this maybe easy to do. But I get a thrill hearing people say 'that was and awesome expierence as a player!'

I don't look at this being right the first several run throughs, I may even offend people with what I'm planning and how I present it in game. But I'll keep trying until I get it right. Plus I will value player's criticism as long as its contrutive (i.e. You suck is not constructive, however, that sucked because a b c and you could've done it x y z is a more valuable phrase)

Griogre

June 24th, 2008, 04:40

Just some additional thoughts. Personally, I have found a group either from Yahoo or Google is easier than a website. They already have just about everything you need and if you wish you can make them private invite only to stop spam.

CC & Dundginni are both good map programs. However, because I use to make game maps for a living they were too much like work to me. These days I prefer very simple tile mappers for online games. This is a very much an esthetic issue and you can do loads more with those two programs than any tile mapper.

I would suggest you use some sort of VoIP software rather than Dragon Naturally speaking, but I have heard of some people using Dragon Naturally speaking and if you don't do voice it might be a good substitute. However I have to tell you the built in Vista dictation software seems very nice but it doesn't seem to work with FG.

totalgeek

June 24th, 2008, 05:43

I would suggest you use some sort of VoIP software rather than Dragon Naturally speaking, but I have heard of some people using Dragon Naturally speaking and if you don't do voice it might be a good substitute. However I have to tell you the built in Vista dictation software seems very nice but it doesn't seem to work with FG.

Thanks for the tips and advice!

The only reason for the website is I already have the web space for work projects. I just upload Wordpress and voila campaign tracking. I like the ideal of a group, let me check it out if Yahoo or Google provides more functionality for group design and reading of archives I'll do it. But I belong to a RPG group on yahoo and if its the same thing I find the interface lacking for what I envision.

The only reason I would use Dragon is everyone doesn't have Ventrilo, which is a free download, so I would dictate. I am running Vista and didn't think the free offering for vista would be better then a commercial product if it is, I'll just use that. I hope everyone will be able to get VoIP software, but I understand if people refrain from doing so because the web is about anonymity (ugh can't spell too late).

To be honest I came across Fractal Mapper 8 and thats on top of my list now. The reason I want mapping software is so I don't have to describe everything in the room (# of beds, barrels, crates, etc... ) I'll put it on the map software and tell PCs if you see it on the map its there. Don't get me wrong I'll still add a sentance or two of flavor text "you whiff the aromatic aroma of freshly baked bread from the open window" kind of stuff. I feel if you can describe sense it adds more 'punch' to the game as a PC. I don't want to turn this into a job either, but I like detail in my campaigns. Being a DM/GM is thrilling for me because as a programmer by profession I love creating new applications that people use, and they are happy with by giving input during its creation/development, and watching them use and enjoy it when its complete and deployed. DMing, for me, is just a natural extension of this!

Plus don't forget I don't have a life :) so more time to commit to this endeavor then most.

Just did some one-off playtesting with my 11 year old on 4E rules and he's excited to play, and he did much better then I thought. He knew to look for traps, examine the area and bodies (threw Kobolds at his 1st lvl fighter), and I would like to DM with him in game one day.

scytale2

June 24th, 2008, 10:25

You should also consider whether you really want VOIP at all, as there are three downsides, at least to using it, where the upsides are fairly obvious. These are:

a) Language and accent. English is not everyone's first language and thus they find that reading is much better than hearing. They might miss something critical.

b) Voice software cuts out. Sometimes you can be talking away and the system cuts out and back in again and there's no way you can tell what's been heard or not.

c) Voice creates a different ambience, which is more akin to a tabletop game and thus has all the downsides of suspension of disbelief. That slight female is not that strapping barbarian and the deep-voiced Scandinavian doesn't sound much like a female halfling rogue. Also, differentiating voices is not so easy as GM. "Text only" helps therefore with roleplay immersion in the game, at the expense of needing a lot of preparation, an inordinately fast typist or being a slower game.

And just a last thing, we were talking last night about what youngsters gain from roleplaying and we came up with the following:

Maths
Teamwork
Problem solving
Social skills
Leadership skills (if they lead)
Creative stimulus
Creative writing
Perhaps there are more...

On the negative side, roleplay is somewhat addictive as a hobby, physically undemanding, time-consuming and non-productive (fulfilling the human's need to be productive artificially). On balance, though I think it has an important place in young people's development, if they're interested in it.

Sorontar

June 24th, 2008, 11:05

On the negative side, roleplay is somewhat addictive as a hobby, physically undemanding, time-consuming and non-productive (fulfilling the human's need to be productive artificially). On balance, though I think it has an important place in young people's development, if they're interested in it.

WARNING THREAD HIJACK IMMINENT! WARNING THREAD HIJACK IMMINENT! :D

I always look at what I have gained from playing PnP games over others and I believe it turned me into a well-rounded individual. So yeah definately worthwhile for kids to play, at the local community centre I was President of the group and we had people using it as part of their Duke of Edinburgh scheme.

To be honest I'd rather have a child of mine stuck in his mates basement playing PnP from 6pm-9pm than out on the streets drinking cheap cider and happy slapping people :p

BUT if if PnP it undemanding physicallly start LARPing, much fun had by all :D

Also PnP doesn't have to be the only hobby, when I was a kid I managed to play PnP and at various points of my school life combined it with working my way up to black-belt at Ju-Jitsu, playing in a youth American Football team and going to the gym.

totalgeek

June 24th, 2008, 14:29

And just a last thing, we were talking last night about what youngsters gain from roleplaying and we came up with the following:

Maths
Teamwork
Problem solving
Social skills
Leadership skills (if they lead)
Creative stimulus
Creative writing
Perhaps there are more...

On the negative side, roleplay is somewhat addictive as a hobby, physically undemanding, time-consuming and non-productive (fulfilling the human's need to be productive artificially). On balance, though I think it has an important place in young people's development, if they're interested in it.

I agree, after some thought, with the list you presented in regards to what youngsters gain when PnP'ing. My son has a fairly active imagination which makes roleplaying for him quite fun. After we did our playtest which consisted of creating a 1st level Fighter, small background, and finding the character in front of a sturdy wooden door. My son started to act out the character. I had to interpret for him, and also gave him some nudging so that he could present his ideas more focused. For example, he said, "Dad, do I hear anything?"

"You hear the light blowing of the wind, and the flickering of your torch."

"No, Dad, do I hear anything in the other room?"

"OOOOH, you're listening for sounds in the other room, how? What is your character doing to hear the sounds in the other room?"

He then went on to give me how his character is crouching down, placed the torch away from his character so he doesn't hear its flickering, and he cupped his hands around his ear and said, his character was listening that way. For thought I gave him a +3 to listening, and I was impressed.

Scytale2 you are spot on about my concerns about VOIP I guess it will have to be something that the 'group' decides on. It would just be easy for DMs as I won't have to type as much. But a big down factor is suspension of disbelief.

Sorontar don't worry about hi-jacking the thread if you have any relevant information pertaining to roleplaying I always like to hear it. I don't my son playing PnP, however, I don't know about LARP. My expierence with LARP players has always been, well, bad. Most people at my school when I was younger used to play vampire and they were ostracized becaue they were always LARPing even when a 'game' wasn't in session. They would dress like vamps, and always talk about drinking one anothers blood. I don't want to handicap my son's social attitude. However, if he were to take it in moderation, understand its a game, and lead a normal life outside of game. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Sorontar

June 24th, 2008, 15:38

Ah Vampire LARPers, or sexual deviants as they are known in later life *joke* :p

Personally I play in a system that is an event system, the final battle on the last afternoon at the August event usually numbering over 2500 people so the combat system cannot involve too many intricate calls (they'd just get missed in the mass melee). Loosely a medieval fantasy setting but we have groups at the event who base their unit on various historical periods and cultures.

None of this rock, paper, scissor mularky ........ beautifully carved dense foam on carbon fibre rods coated in latex paint are the weapons of choice. If I hit you, I hit you. The weapon seminars in my youth for Ju-Jitsui help a great deal as I had good footwork and good form. I recently played an archer which was a completely new skill but easy enough.

Not sure how far LARP weapons have come on that side of the pond, last time I checked they were still using clunky gaffa tape weapons.

Griogre

June 24th, 2008, 21:28

Using VoIP it will speed up combat tremendously. However, ignoring the immersion problem, I have found that players tend to role play better with typed chat for some reason. What I do is have the players type "in character chat" and use VoIP for OOC, game rules questions, or other clarifications. I also do some naration with VoIP because it is just fast.

My suggestion with voice is decide whether you are going to use it or not before you start your game because you will waste time starting a game because while most people do use it here, a few are *violently* opposed. And if your group "decides" on voice the odds are you will lose a player causing you to have to go find another one. You'll start your game faster if you let people know immediately whether you are going to use voice software and how. The same applies to date and time of the game, by the way. If you try to start a game saying we can play on these days and times by the time you have come to a consensis half the people interested will not be able to play at that time - so you will end up recruiting for a specific day and time anyway to fill out the game.

I played in a game with Xorn and he had a fasinating way of doing combat. We would first do all the combat in voice for the character's round and then after it was resolved - hit, miss, crit, ect - he would ask us to type up an "in character" description of what just happened. It was really neat.

To be honest I came across Fractal Mapper 8 and thats on top of my list now. The reason I want mapping software is so I don't have to describe everything in the room (# of beds, barrels, crates, etc... ) I'll put it on the map software and tell PCs if you see it on the map its there. Don't get me wrong I'll still add a sentance or two of flavor text "you whiff the aromatic aroma of freshly baked bread from the open window" kind of stuff. I feel if you can describe sense it adds more 'punch' to the game as a PC. I don't want to turn this into a job either, but I like detail in my campaigns. Being a DM/GM is thrilling for me because as a programmer by profession I love creating new applications that people use, and they are happy with by giving input during its creation/development, and watching them use and enjoy it when its complete and deployed. DMing, for me, is just a natural extension of this!
There's nothing quite like the rush of creation is there? When you push the project out the door and know its great. :) So *sigh* I hate being a bit of kill joy on highly detailed maps. Online games run slower than face to face games. First, so you know, I am a proponent of practical, minimal maps so take everything I say that way. I've DM/GMed a long time and my experience with highly detailed maps is they can slow the game to a crawl. This is because the players/characters *want* to interact with anything that looks cool on a map.

This is *great* when they interact with something you want them to, and it is "not so great" when they mess around for 30 minutes with something that has no bearing. This means you either have to tell them it's not important - which just ruins immersion, and tends to make them stop messing with anything on the map (bad) or you have to make something up on the fly about the thing they are interested in - which is the better option, IMHO - but you are still canabalizing your own story time to a certain extent and you just spent about 30 minutes of your session messing with something that you didn't think was that important in the first place (don't get me wrong the point of RPGs is to have fun not necesarily move through a plot quickly).

Most online sessions are only about 4 hours. That's why I'm more in favor of a minimal map with good flavor text. That way the players will key off the text instead of the map. This is a very much YMMV thing, though - but when you build a map you might want to keep this in mind.

scytale2

June 24th, 2008, 23:06

Using VoIP it will speed up combat tremendously.

I don't agree with this. The speed of combat is all about how many items are on the combat tracker. 4 hour sessions have been known to include one combat round per hour, if there is a lot happening and that is WITH VOIP.

I make what I think is a serious point. Large combats (in 3.5) are too slow in FG2. The combat tracker gets fiddly, the DM has to think of too much and slows down, the players get bored and often go and make tea, when they are supposed to be having their turn.

So....BIG ADVICE -> Max 8 monsters per combat (in 3.5) and your players will get through much more. Preferably 4-5 tops. To me, having a bit of roleplay and a couple of encounters is what a session should consist of ideally. 4th edition is a different matter entirely. For some reason the combats go much quicker and one (long) combat of 2 hours or so must have had 30-35 mobs in waves last weekend. The minions are easy to do and the player has a smaller list of options, so it becomes more feasible. When players don't have so long to wait between rounds they are much more likely to still be there when it is there turn.

I don't usually use VOIP in my 3.5 campaign and I don't think it has slowed us down at all not having it. And it has certainly sponsored roleplay.

phloog

June 25th, 2008, 02:05

totalgeek

June 25th, 2008, 02:59

This is *great* when they interact with something you want them to, and it is "not so great" when they mess around for 30 minutes with something that has no bearing. This means you either have to tell them it's not important - which just ruins immersion, and tends to make them stop messing with anything on the map (bad) or you have to make something up on the fly about the thing they are interested in - which is the better option, IMHO - but you are still canabalizing your own story time to a certain extent and you just spent about 30 minutes of your session messing with something that you didn't think was that important in the first place (don't get me wrong the point of RPGs is to have fun not necesarily move through a plot quickly).

Most online sessions are only about 4 hours. That's why I'm more in favor of a minimal map with good flavor text. That way the players will key off the text instead of the map. This is a very much YMMV thing, though - but when you build a map you might want to keep this in mind.

Ah good point! I remember just describing via test a room and having the PCs look at everything and I didn't even have anything special in the room. My delivery of what their action was could be to blame. "Your search turns up nothing, however you are distracted by the splendor decor" or something like that can't quite remember, and they keep looking and looking and looking at the bed and surronding furniture for like an hour.

Or the players who go about stealing everything in a room. Are there bedsheets? We take them. Are there spoons at the table? We take them, etc... Then they get mad at me when no merchant wants to buy soiled used sheets?!

I have a license to DMGenie, but unfortunetly haven't played or DMed 3.5 in over a year. That's what I might plan to do is RIP out 4E support or not even download the ruleset and just run the game "manually" like we used to in the olden days ;)

richvalle

June 25th, 2008, 14:05

Not that anyone wants to buy a ton of software, but my plan is to avoid the issue with the combat tracker by using FG2 along with DMgenie...it makes things a bit clunky in terms of communication, but DMG is insanely good at handling combats (and a number of other things)...

Has anyone tried using the two together?

I have a little bit. It works ok, but I was having an issue with desktop space. I like to stretch FG over both my monitors so I have room for all the things I like to have open. With DMG open on one monitor there was a lot of switching back and forth.

Also, while DMG was great for tracking the battle it was sucking up serious time by having to put all the bad guys in before hand.

What I use DMG for now is as a sanity check for player characters. I enter them into DMG and compair them vs FG to check HP's, ac, attacks, ect, ect. Also for magic item worth vs level.

What it is also GREAT at is to add levels or templates to creatures you want to change. Enter in the base creature and then add levels/templates to your hearts content. Then I enter the new creature into FG.

rv

Snikle

June 25th, 2008, 17:10

Here's what I'm already procuring:

Allot of those things you are looking for are already provided for free over at FUM when you create a gaming group. As FG is cheaper than DDi, and FUM can provide most of the stuff you want (chat, private forum, spot for uploads, etc), I suggest you keep that option open as well.

totalgeek

June 25th, 2008, 21:57

Allot of those things you are looking for are already provided for free over at FUM when you create a gaming group. As FG is cheaper than DDi, and FUM can provide most of the stuff you want (chat, private forum, spot for uploads, etc), I suggest you keep that option open as well.

I should read FUM more closely I didn't know they offered those type of services. I'm headed over there now to read what I obviously missed.

Griogre

June 26th, 2008, 18:44

I don't agree with this. The speed of combat is all about how many items are on the combat tracker. 4 hour sessions have been known to include one combat round per hour, if there is a lot happening and that is WITH VOIP.

I make what I think is a serious point. Large combats (in 3.5) are too slow in FG2. The combat tracker gets fiddly, the DM has to think of too much and slows down, the players get bored and often go and make tea, when they are supposed to be having their turn.

So....BIG ADVICE -> Max 8 monsters per combat (in 3.5) and your players will get through much more. Preferably 4-5 tops. To me, having a bit of roleplay and a couple of encounters is what a session should consist of ideally. 4th edition is a different matter entirely. For some reason the combats go much quicker and one (long) combat of 2 hours or so must have had 30-35 mobs in waves last weekend. The minions are easy to do and the player has a smaller list of options, so it becomes more feasible. When players don't have so long to wait between rounds they are much more likely to still be there when it is there turn.

I don't usually use VOIP in my 3.5 campaign and I don't think it has slowed us down at all not having it. And it has certainly sponsored roleplay.
I respectfully disagree with you on voice speeding things up with combat. It is typically much faster to just tell the players certain things rather than typing (unless you type like a god - and even if you do probably not all your players do): Make spot checks, Roll initiative, Everyone make a Fort save. Rogue make a reflex plus trapfinding. This is a surprise segment. Description on how the monster looks after a successful hit. Description on how a PC looks after a successful monster hit. However, the real advantage of VoIP, IMHO, is when a player is confused about the rules or situation. I have played in a type only game where it took 20 minutes for a confused player trying to get clarification on a rule and finally the DM just said that's the way it is because the player never did figure it out. It would have taken 5 minutes max with voice to reach that point.

I do agree with the large numbers of monsters in combat slow the 3.5 game down to a crawl. I'm not sure I agree they slow the online game down that much than a face to face game because once you do have the monsters in the combat tracker things can go faster than in a face to face game monster wise - but that does really depend on the monsters. Personally, I think multiple PC iterative attacks slow the game down much more than multiple monsters - especially when the player doesn't have his attacks hot keyed.

I am also a big fan of 4e being faster at the higher levels. I will not go back to running high level 3.5 play. And yeah, :) Minions are very, very nice. I love them. :D

In short on the VoiP vs. typed chat only: I agree with the roleplaying is better via typed chat but really stand by the faster combat with voice. I think this is truer the more complex the system you are running and the less the players know about a system. If your players really *know* the rules voice is less of an advantage.

I personally would play in a type only game (and have). I would never run one though.

azbo

August 3rd, 2008, 16:55

where is the jpg ruleset available? is it available? Is it free or for purchase? Is there another ruleset? I heard that FUM had a ruelset but I couldn't find it (though I didn't look particularly hard).

Foen

August 3rd, 2008, 17:58

The JPG ruleset *is* the FUM one. You have to join the 4e tester/contributor group to get access.

Foen

icedcrow

August 5th, 2008, 05:17

How does one get to be a tester? I'm new to FG and making my own ruleset looks a bit intimidating. I'm not above doing my own work, but I'm kind of lost, and I want to use t his for 4th edition campaigns.

azbo

August 5th, 2008, 05:55

If you join as a tester/contributor will you be able to impact the codebase?

I totally disagree that voice doesn't speed things up. It's great for clarifying the situation "can I see the wizard from where I am?" or delineating an action "I attack ogre 3". The trick to handling things somwhat rapidly in large combats is to be ready on your turn. If player doesn't act or give some indication they're in the process of doing something for 15 seconds once the combat tracker is on them, move to the next person. If they comeback before it's their turn drop them in the init order to where ever you are now. when it's not your turn, don't clutter chat or the voip with too much banter and keep things moving along.

Foen

August 5th, 2008, 06:10

How does one get to be a tester?

I think you just sign up to the list. Last time I looked (which was a while ago) there were only a few real contributors, and far more members of the list. Besides, I think that by using the ruleset you would be contributing to the play-testing.

The best folks to ask are JPG and Joshuha, on the FUM site.

Tenian

August 5th, 2008, 11:10

Testers vastly outnumber contributors :) If you feel bold, you're certainly free to poke at the underlying code and make modifications. All roads go through JPG so once you have something finished you'll either need to email it to him or post it in the FUM group. JMnITup was working on getting a CSV established but they were waiting on the ruleset to be more stable.

I know there are several campaigns running successfully on the 4E_JPG ruleset. You might want to check out the calendar and find some active 4E games and contact their GMs. They'll probably be able to give you a better picture of the ins and outs of running a 4E game in FG2.

icedcrow

August 5th, 2008, 13:54

I was messing with it last night. THe biggest thing is the way the powers work (at-will, encounter, etc).

I'm new... any chance to respond with a link or email addy to contact to get involved?

Tenian

August 5th, 2008, 14:03

The 4E_JPG ruleset can be found on Four Ugly Monsters (aka FUM) (https://www.fouruglymonsters.com) You will need to create an account and then join the group titled:
D&D 4th Edition FG Development
Once there look for the thread titled: 4E_JPG ruleset v1.0.1 That is the current (as of this posting) public version of the ruleset.

I'd link you directly but I doubt it will work if you don't have a registered account.

icedcrow

August 5th, 2008, 14:36

Thanks Tenian.

Arzun

August 11th, 2008, 19:14

I installed that, but how do I use it? Like where do I put it?

Foen

August 11th, 2008, 19:19

You might want to ask on the FUM site, the ruleset is hosted and supported from there, not here. Although, my guess would be you unzip the ruleset into the rulesets sub-directory of the FG2 application data directory. Also, you need a Full licence to be able to use it, or else you need to connect to a GM/campaign (in which case you won't need to install it on your local machine at all).

Stuart