Hidden GM rolls not so hidden after all...

[Skie]

the "show GM rolls" option does what it says it does, it hides the rolled visual dice results, it used to also hide the results text as well, but it seems that the "show results to players" option is kinda wonky, I have attached a picture with 4 different rolls explained as follows:

the red box has no hidden GM rolls and all results shown.

the blue box has GM rolls turned off, and show results set to on.

the purple box has GM rolls turned off and show results set to friendly (this setting used to make it so players could see the results of the other players but NOT from GM rolls)

the orange box has both GM rolls and show results turned off.

in conclusion the purple result should in this example also have been hidden as it is a GM roll against a player named Dungeon master and the show result is set to only show friendly results, and yet it shows results from tokens that are marked as hostile.

[Moon Wizard]

The show results will show results for any rolls in which one of the actors is a player. If you attack a player, then it shows the results, because a player was involved.

Regards,
JPG

[Skie]

so the only way to truly hide a GM roll is to block all results from being shown? meaning players can't see each others results either ? that seems like a step backwards :/

that also means the "friendly" option is the same as the "on" option, whats the point of the friendly option then ?

[Moon Wizard]

That's the way that the option always worked. If a player was involved in the interaction, then the result is shown (i.e. they are attacking, or being attacked)

Regards,
JPG

[Skie]

I'm not sure when the "show results to players" option was introduced or separated out from the hide GM rolls option but having it show GM results on players when GM rolls are hidden is just wrong, if GM rolls are hidden so should the result be hidden to ALL players... for the "friendly" option to make sense it should show only friendly rolls made by one self or tokens set to friendly as well, makes zero sense to show the player a result of a hidden roll, I've been looking through video footage of some recent sessions and I've found some combat session where GM rolls are truly hidden (the video is recorded by a player) and that player does not get any results or GM rolls shown, but what he can see is his own and his allies (party members) rolls

so i find it hard to believe its "working as intended" as a GM if i want to hide a roll that includes any result text as well... as it used to be! :)

[Laerun]

I'm not sure when the "show results to players" option was introduced or separated out from the hide GM rolls option but having it show GM results on players when GM rolls are hidden is just wrong, if GM rolls are hidden so should the result be hidden to ALL players... for the "friendly" option to make sense it should show only friendly rolls made by one self or tokens set to friendly as well, makes zero sense to show the player a result of a hidden roll, I've been looking through video footage of some recent sessions and I've found some combat session where GM rolls are truly hidden (the video is recorded by a player) and that player does not get any results or GM rolls shown, but what he can see is his own and his allies (party members) rolls

so i find it hard to believe its "working as intended" as a GM if i want to hide a roll that includes any result text as well... as it used to be! :)

Have you been able to test this out with a connected PLAYER? Sometimes the host features and priveldges show more than a separately connected player client, or it has previously...

[Skie]

yes i have, the attached screenshot in my original post is from a player client

[Skie]

i can even upload a video clip of how it used to work from a players perspective if required :)

[Moon Wizard]

Actually, the option came about from popular demand of GMs not wanting players to see their rolls and/or modifiers; but wanted to allow the results to still be known (for speed of play). Like I mentioned, it’s been that way for probably ten years or more, and many users use that option in that way. It’s why the option was made.

If you want more fine tuned control, you can turn off the results completely, and just let players know results when relevant, like you would around a table.

Regards,
JPG

Regards,
JPG

[LordEntrails]

Pretty sure Show Results option has been around for years and I don't think the behavior has changed for that long. Checking the Release Notes going back to 2020 shows no changes; fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/patchnotes_v4.html (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/patchnotes_v4.html)

So that would tell me this behavior has been this way ever since FGU was released.

Looking at the Release Notes for FG Classic, the last change to this behavior was in 3.3.2, September 2017; fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/patchnotes.html (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/patchnotes.html)

You can always put a feature request in for an enhancement here; Fantasy Grounds - Feature Requests (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php)

[Skie]

https://youtu.be/SmW2DmcrDFQ

this short clip shows exactly what one player sees in chat when the GM attacks another player... this was recorded on oct, 3rd 2024 (yes i know kinda old)

as you can see, in the CT its Mercenary 4's turn, he moves 5 feet and attacks a player (Azad the monk) with his scimitar and scores a nat 20... the player who's chat is in the clip is Keishara the necromancer andd she gets no result box of any kind, only thing she sees is the shadow dice, and thats how its been ever since i first turned on the hide GM rolls option with results set to friendly, what is also seen is that Keishara can see all the other players rolls in chat.

the result shown in chat is me as GM pressing the middle mouse on the result and showing the players the 23 to hit

[Skie]

now all of a sudden players can see results they couldn't see before, i just want it back to how it was :D

[Misza]

Chiming in as one of the players..


Below are two videos showing how FGU combat worked last night (after) and how we've been playing for years (before)

After: NPC combat roll results shown despite dice roll itself being obscured. Really isn't any logic ghosting the dice roll itself when the roll results are shown for everyone.

Before: NPC dice is hidden (greyed out) like above, but us players never see the dice results. We can however see each others dice rolls, actions, saves etc.. This is what we prefer and would like to get back to.

Hope it's more clear :)

Combat now https://youtu.be/DI2BpugAJAI

Combat before https://youtu.be/mDtiUC9TTCE

[Zacchaeus]

@Moon Wizard I think that the OP may well have a point here specifically when the "Chat: Show results to players" option is set to Friendly. My understanding of this option has always been that the only thing this really did was show any results to players where the interaction was between two friendly characters such as when one healed the other. It should not show any results of something which came from the DM such as an attack. What seems to be happening now (and maybe my understanding is flawed admittedly) is that when set to Friendly this is effectively the same as having the option set to on.

As an example I've included a screenshot below. In the first two instances the attack is coming from the DM with a Mage attacking Bob with Arcane Burst. The first shows the result when Show results to players is set to 'On' and the second when the Show results to players is set to 'Friendly'. As you can see there's no difference between the two results; in each case it shows that the attack hit or missed. And I don't think this is expected.

In the second two rolls both were made by one player healing another; the first roll is made with show results set to 'Friendly' and the second with Show results set to 'Off'. You can see that the only difference is that when show results is set to off the players don't see how much actual healing was done and don't get a message showing the status of the healed character. And I think this is expected.

So, I do think that the setting show results to clients might not be working as expected when set to Friendly and when the roll is coming from the DM.

[Ludd_G]

We noticed this last night, suddenly the players were able to see the DMs results, and I'm pretty sure that with results set to 'friendly' it hadn't previously (we hadn't played in 2 weeks) shown the results of the DMs rolls, just the rolls of all the friendly players?

Cheers,

Simon

[Lo Zeno]

That's the way that the option always worked. If a player was involved in the interaction, then the result is shown (i.e. they are attacking, or being attacked)

Regards,
JPG

I'm pretty sure that, as Skie said, that's not the way that option always worked, because my group too pointed out that suddenly now they can see my (DM) roll results while before they couldn't (and I had to middle-click with the mouse when I intended to show them).
Now, whether the current behaviour is the way it was intended to work and the previous behaviour was actually a long-lived bug, I don't know. But for a fairly long time, at least since last summer (when I started playing with the group I am DMing) the behaviour was the one documented by the videos posted by Skie and their player.

[Moon Wizard]

Seems I misremembered, and it got changed back in February. One of the advantages to having source control as extra memory to check.
It was "both" actors friendly vs. "at least one" actor friendly before that. Not sure why it was changed; probably a different user request. :)

Just pushed an update to adjust that back. Please run a new Check for Updates.

Regards,
JPG

[Skie]

My Players and I thank you for a speedy fix :D

[Skie]

So, this issue is back same as before, when the GM rolls against a PC the roll is no longer hidden. the dice is greyed out but the text in chat that shows the result is no longer hidden.

[Moon Wizard]

Which roll? What options are set? Are you running any extensions?

Regards,
JPG

[Skie]

any DM roll that involves a PC gets shown, and "show DM rolls" is set to off, so any roll the DM makes should 100% always be hidden no matter who it involves, the "show results to players" is set to friendly, but this should only show players rolls from their allies, never a roll done by the DM, and this was tested on a fresh 5E campaign with no extensions loaded. its basically the exact same issue as i reported in my original post, Zach also explained the issue a few post up from this one :)

[Moon Wizard]

There was quite a bit of back and forth on this, as apparently everyone uses it differently. The option behavior has basically been flip-flopping based on who is raising the issue.

So, instead, I just added a new setting to the Show Results:
* Off = Do not show results to players
* On = Show all results to players
* Friendly = Show results to players if either source or target is Friendly unit (or missing)
* Friendly (Only) = Show results to players if both source and target are Friendly (or missing)

If you run a Check for Updates, you should get that change; and I've updated the 5E Campaign Options section of the wiki as well.

Regards,
JPG