Req: AD&D 2nd Edition Ruleset

[arcath]

Ok, I am dealing with VERY stuborn players here.

They dont want to upgrade to 4ED, let alone 3/3.5, they only want to play 2nd AD&D.

Hence, I am looking for a ruleset for FGII for 2nd edition.

I am hoping I can convert them later, but for now I am stuck playing old school. =/

Can anyone help me out? The only ones I have found were ok, but were for FG1.

Thanks.

[Griogre]

Have you considered using Toadwarts generic character sheet? He updated it for FG2. Maybe using it will "encourage" the players to switch. ;)

All joking aside, its really a nice sheet that allows you to just play - instead of diddling with rulesets. I would hope by now the players know the rules. :p

[arcath]

nope, they dont want to use a generic ruleset.

this is one of the reasons i am banging my head against the wall here.

[RiverRat]

nope, they dont want to use a generic ruleset.

this is one of the reasons i am banging my head against the wall here.

Have you considered banging their heads again the wall :D :hurt:

[arcath]

yes.....

:P

[Griogre]

LOL, tell them they will get a custom ruleset as soon as one of them makes one for you :confused: - until then they get the generic one. :rv:

[Foen]

I think one of the other systems (C&C?) is 2e in disguise, perhaps you could try that?

Cheers

Stuart

[arcath]

I know that C&C did away with thaco, but what other changes from 2nd edition are there? I was trying to search for a answer, but my searchfu seems to not be working at 1am.

[aaelon]

just get more appreciative players :)

[mr_h]

just get more appreciative players :)

This, kill your PC's in some horrible death trap, then say "Well, that trap wouldn't have worked that way in 3.5/4th edition"

Then when they agree to transfer over, kill their PC's again for being so stubborn.

[Astinus]

I know that C&C did away with thaco, but what other changes from 2nd edition are there? I was trying to search for a answer, but my searchfu seems to not be working at 1am.

Not a great deal. All my players are old school first edition AD&D and I introduced them to C&C and they were up and running right away. In less than a minute. It was a lot easier than moving them to 3e, or God forbid, 4e.

In C&C, other than AC going up instead of down, the only major change that occurs to me is saving throws. All saving throws are now based on the SIEGE engine, which basically means ability checks. Dexterity check to dodge the fireball for half damage, Constitution check to save against poison, etc.

It's a good clean system and very old school in its approach. The key is that it feels like AD&D. I found the following a good read when I was first considering the system:

https://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/why_play_cnc.html

[MrMerchant]

nope, they dont want to use a generic ruleset.

this is one of the reasons i am banging my head against the wall here.

Ha! Yeah, I'm starting a 4th ed. game myself, and the same guys I had to bring kicking and screaming into 3/3.5 ed are being crybabies about 4th ed.

Personally I don't really care because they're a bunch of rules lawyers. These are the kinds of guys who regard D&D as the old 2nd ed. "The DM is the bad guy" mentality, their idea of fun is trying to kill everyone before 5th level.

It's true that you can't have a game without players, but at the end of the day, as a DM, it's YOUR game.

[arcath]

Well i would just really be happy to contract someone to make me a working 2nd edition AD&D character sheet that works with the combat tracker, interfaces nicely with FG and looks pretty.

All I really need is a nice looking Char sheet and I would be happy.

Meh.

Any takers for this commission?

[Foen]

I never used 2nd edition (although I have the DMG/PHB somewhere), but am quite familiar with first edition - how different is it?

THAC0 is an abtract that helps replace the table of numbers in 1e, but can equally be used in 1e. I think there are secondary skills, but I don't recall any other differences on the character sheet.

Foen

[arcath]

I never played on first edition so I'm not sure.

I got a FG1 character sheet for 2nd edition that we were using now, that I can send to you for comparison to what I am looking for, with a couple slight changes.

Are you interested?

[Griogre]

From a ruleset point of view (other than skills no longer being optional) there was about zero difference between AD&D and AD&D 2nd Ed. I believe AD&D 2nd's biggest change was that was the edition they pulled out the half orc and that was the first edition where they actually required skill use. They changed the level of a few spells and bumped up the power of giants and dragons. It was also the start of the long trend of de-powering utility spells and other non attack spells with the duration of invis going from "until you attack" to 24 hours, ect.

IMO the relationship is similar to that of 3.0 and 3.5 but far fewer rule differances.

[Engar]

Eh, not quite. They also really revamped the class structure and multi-classing. Not nearly the difference between 2e and 3.x. Since this just encouraged me to pull out both my Adv and 2e PHB's I also noticed (unrelated) the old Adv table of racial animosity (who hates who, who likes who, etc). Ahh, nastalgia...

[arcath]

So, any takers on making this for FG2?

[Engar]

Sorry, don't know squat about rulesets.

[Foen]

Ahh, I would but I have three on the go at the moment. I'll need to finish two of these before I have time for another.

Sorry,

Stuart

[Stevenav]

Well, I just recently bought the software with the plans on creating a 1st edition AD&D rules set. It doesn't seem particularly difficult.

The thing is, combat in those earlier editions were a bit different than in newer versions.

In newer versions all the classes use the same basic table for chances to hit. The earlier versions didn't. Fighters, to reflect their skill at arms, had a progressively better combat table than any other class based on a simple formula.

Where everyone else went up by 5% better chance per hit (one pip on the d20) fighters (if I remember correctly) went up by 7.5%. Which in and of itself doesn't seem to be a big deal, but in reality it does, Suddenly a couple advancements later you're hitting with +5% better chance to hit, which can make a huge difference down the road.

To the person wanting a 2nd edition version, I'll see what I can do as I get rolling on this 1st edition thing.

[Doswelk]

From a ruleset point of view (other than skills no longer being optional) there was about zero difference between AD&D and AD&D 2nd Ed. I believe AD&D 2nd's biggest change was that was the edition they pulled out the half orc....

You forgot the biggest change of all (they changed the order of the ability scores):

1st Edition STR,INT,WIS,DEX,CON,CHA
2nd -4th: STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS,CHA

:p

On another note there was a AD&D ruleset (but it might have been for FG1)

[DNH]

You forgot the biggest change of all (they changed the order of the ability scores):

1st Edition STR,INT,WIS,DEX,CON,CHA
2nd -4th: STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS,CHA

:p



4e has changed it again. It's now STR, CON, DEX, INT, WIS, CHA. I was annoyed by it at first because I could see no reason for it, but it's because each pair feeds into the three non-AC defences. So your Reflex defence is modified by the higher of your Dex and Int modifiers.

[Griogre]

You forgot the biggest change of all (they changed the order of the ability scores):

1st Edition STR,INT,WIS,DEX,CON,CHA
2nd -4th: STR,DEX,CON,INT,WIS,CHA

LOL, yeah I think they did change that but I must admit I considered it so minor I ignored it - until I ran out of old "D&D" character sheets and had to use the new fangled "AD&D" ones at the time. ;) I'm a dinosaur when it comes to character sheets I only upgrade when one wears out - a bunch of my AD&D characters are *still* on old D&D sheets, ie typical sample:
https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/Griogre/Sar.png

[Foen]

Wow!

The oldest character sheets I had were AD&D first edition yellowy-orange ones.

[Orpheus]

Wow!

The oldest character sheets I had were AD&D first edition yellowy-orange ones.
Goldenrod. The word which you seek is Goldenrod.;)

[Foen]

More on the Gold side of Goldenrod, I think, and definately over-priced at the time.

:)

Foen

[Griogre]

Definately over priced - which is why most of my really old ones are xeroxes. Wasn't each character class a different color? I still have a pink multi-class sheet (lucky for you I decided not to hurt your eyes and post it ;) ).

[Orpheus]

The character sheets over at https://www.mad-irishman.net are top-notch and he does have some of the old school sheets. Also, there are some Castles and Crusades sheets done with the old AD&D sheets as the basis.:D