Infernal Dice Pack - Nigh-Unreadable

[rocketvaultgames]

While the infernal dice look very cool, the d20 is especially difficult to read. My players all requested that I change back to standard dice.

I agree that it is very difficult to read with 20/20 vision on a 4k 32" display at UI Scale 165% and dice at 110%.

I'm thinking that unfortunately many of the d20s from the dice packs are very difficult to read.

I don't know what the solution is, but just wanted to make it known. I'm happy to pay for just about anything that will improve my games. The dice just really don't. They look great, but aren't very usable.

[Egheal]

Indeed the dices of every sets are hard to read, even at their max 120% size. The only solution is to use a really big ScaleUI but we loose so much playing space doing that, that it is not, in my opinion, a good solution.
I think the only real solution is to allow us to use way bigger dices (like 400-500%) but it will then not be suitable to be used in the chat box. So the remedy is to make it possible to use the dices and their results outside the chatbox like it is done in FoundryVTT.

[LordEntrails]

The chat box shows the results the of the dice. Why not just "read" them there?

[Jiminimonka]

Or put your glasses on. I have no problem reading most of the dice and then there is the chat output showing what was rolled.

[Egheal]

It is not just about reading the results, the point is that the overall look of the dices is difficult to grasp. Background art and font of the numbers, even the subtlety of the animations is difficult to see. Sure, throwing dices is not the most important part of our hobby but an important part nonetheless. Of course it is probably possible to get rid of the dices altogether, going only chat results, but it is not how I want to play.
And yes, I use glasses.
And yes most of the dices are readable, but a lot are not totally enjoyable.

[BadEye]

It is not just about reading the results, the point is that the overall look of the dices is difficult to grasp. Background art and font of the numbers, even the subtlety of the animations is difficult to see. Sure, throwing dices is not the most important part of our hobby but an important part nonetheless. Of course it is probably possible to get rid of the dices altogether, going only chat results, but it is not how I want to play.
And yes, I use glasses.
And yes most of the dices are readable, but a lot are not totally enjoyable.

Thanks for sharing the feedback.

As some others have mentioned, many players like the sets as they are, so we're accomplishing our goal - offering hundreds of different, artistically diverse, dice options where you can find the ones that you like and that work best for you. We're going to keep coming out with dice, and as you mention here, most of the dice are readable, so you can choose to use those.

There are and will continue to be lots of options for you to find your Goldilocks sets.

Thanks!

[jharp]

Thanks for sharing the feedback.

As some others have mentioned, many players like the sets as they are, so we're accomplishing our goal - offering hundreds of different, artistically diverse, dice options where you can find the ones that you like and that work best for you. We're going to keep coming out with dice, and as you mention here, most of the dice are readable, so you can choose to use those.

There are and will continue to be lots of options for you to find your Goldilocks sets.

Thanks!

I always enjoy these types of "responses".
Jason

[BadEye]

I always enjoy these types of "responses".
Jason
I'm not sure I'm following what you mean.

[jharp]

That was equally clear with your original response. It opens with "Thanks for sharing the feedback" but then continues with essentially "but live with it." Your response just seems a little tone deaf. Not like I can do anything about your indifference but I did find it amusing.

Jason

[LordEntrails]

I think it was a very well written, and sensitive, response. Diplomatic, but not political if you know what I mean. I also get how in some ways it doesn't say too much (which is an art itself!).

Yet you can't really be offended by it. And if you read into it comes to the very real statement; "not every artistic product is going to be perfect for every customer". And with SmiteWorks 30 day return policy, it let's people pick up different die sets, see if they like it, and if not return it and try something else.

[jharp]

Hey I wasn't offended. I found it funny.

Jason

[Egheal]

Call me optimistic but I'm pretty sure that, down the road, the size of the dices will increase with the ability to get rid of the Chat box. It is the natural evolution of all the top VTTs and I know for sure the love of BadEye for the dices and what it is possible to do with them. So I will continue to buy every set to support FGU, even though most of them are not fully enjoyable.

[BadEye]

That was equally clear with your original response. It opens with "Thanks for sharing the feedback" but then continues with essentially "but live with it." Your response just seems a little tone deaf. Not like I can do anything about your indifference but I did find it amusing.

Jason

Since this is way off the intended tone for my previous post, I'll offer some further clarity.

I thanked both posters for their feedback because we do appreciate it - and we take all feedback into consideration. Us taking it into consideration is not the same as us acting on it, because if we acted on everything there wouldn't be a cohesive vision for what we're developing and changing something because someone doesn't like it often turns it into a negative for others that did like it. Regardless, we love feedback and review everything we see, and add it to the list...if we started seeing more and more similar feedback, we would delve deeper and determine the root cause of it - and possibly take action at that point.

The next part wasn't a "live with it" at all, but it was indeed sharing that since we have other feedback from all the sources we gather it saying that there's a positive response to our existing dice sets, then yes, we're not going to act upon this feedback at this time. And it is certainly true that there is a plethora of dice options, so finding one that does work should be pretty possible - it would be very different (and we would treat the feedback differently) if there were just a handful of dice options.

I'm not sure what is tone deaf about the above, as I was certainly in tune with the feedback the posters gave - we just aren't going to take any action on it unless we see more feedback along these lines to prompt a change.

I also object to the use of the word "indifference" here, as that would be best displayed by me (or any of our staff) ignoring this thread and not engaging. The feedback here matters to us, and my post was intended to let the original posters know that we've seen it, will consider it, and we won't be making changes at this time. If I posted something like they did, I would like to get that confirmation one way or another, so that's why I posted the reply in the first place.

Lastly, I'll share that even if we don't make any changes with our existing dice sets, this kind of feedback is still valuable in our process (even if it's a small sample size), because when we work on new sets going forward, if we're pondering options between a few fonts, we're likely to prioritize readability a bit more.

[BadEye]

Call me optimistic but I'm pretty sure that, down the road, the size of the dices will increase with the ability to get rid of the Chat box. It is the natural evolution of all the top VTTs and I know for sure the love of BadEye for the dices and what it is possible to do with them. So I will continue to buy every set to support FGU, even though most of them are not fully enjoyable.

We're certainly talking about options to change dice size and how that would work best. Nothing concrete to share (if we end up doing it at all), but we're going to continue looking into it.

[rocketvaultgames]

Thanks for sharing the feedback.

As some others have mentioned, many players like the sets as they are, so we're accomplishing our goal - offering hundreds of different, artistically diverse, dice options where you can find the ones that you like and that work best for you. We're going to keep coming out with dice, and as you mention here, most of the dice are readable, so you can choose to use those.

There are and will continue to be lots of options for you to find your Goldilocks sets.

Thanks!

Sincere thanks for the reply.

I just wanted it to be known that some of the dice are difficult to read/see even at large sizes / high resolutions / with good eyesight.

[jharp]

Call me optimistic but I'm pretty sure that, down the road, the size of the dices will increase with the ability to get rid of the Chat box. It is the natural evolution of all the top VTTs and I know for sure the love of BadEye for the dices and what it is possible to do with them. So I will continue to buy every set to support FGU, even though most of them are not fully enjoyable.

I'll look into a dice mod - its not the easiest area to mod but maybe I can help with improving clarity for you.

Jason

[Zacchaeus]

Call me optimistic but I'm pretty sure that, down the road, the size of the dices will increase with the ability to get rid of the Chat box. It is the natural evolution of all the top VTTs and I know for sure the love of BadEye for the dices and what it is possible to do with them. So I will continue to buy every set to support FGU, even though most of them are not fully enjoyable.

I'm curious as to what happens to chat if you get rid of the chat box? (This is a genuine question; I have no idea how other VTTs handle chat).

[Egheal]

Sorry for the confusion. I don't mean to get rid of the chat box altogether. For example, In Foundry, you can throw your dices everywhere and the result will be written in the chat box. You then can increase the size of the dices enormously, they don't have to fit in the chat box. This behavior is used on a lot of the major VTTs (Roll20, D&D Beyond, Let's role...).

[Jiminimonka]

I'm curious as to what happens to chat if you get rid of the chat box? (This is a genuine question; I have no idea how other VTTs handle chat).

You can roll anywhere on the screen the the output is displayed in chat.

[damned]

You can roll anywhere on the screen the the output is displayed in chat.

You can roll anywhere on the screen.
It is only displayed in chat when rolled in chat (or from a button which then rolls in chat).

[Jiminimonka]

You can roll anywhere on the screen.
It is only displayed in chat when rolled in chat (or from a button which then rolls in chat).

I was talking about the dice in Foundry VTT.

I think Moon Wizard or Bad Eye mentioned making dice rolling anywhere on the screen a thing at some point.

Maybe increasing the scale on dice to more than 120 (up to 200+ even) would help those that can't read the dice without resorting to /scaleui

[LordEntrails]

So how do i warm up my dice (in Foundry) if they all show in chat like "official" rolls?

[ddavison]

We haven't met yet to discuss our plans for the new year, but we are considering a roll-anywhere option. I would personally want this to still also allow dropping a dice roll directly on a target. Another item we are considering is having the dice be much larger once they are picked up and rolled, while keeping them at a smaller size for desktop real estate considerations. As always, we need to evaluate expected development efforts, knock-on effects or risks, and how it fits with other initiatives since we have a small team.

[Nylanfs]

I sincerely hope that the chat box never goes away, what would the point of that be?

[Nylanfs]

I would REALLY, dislike the "roll anywhere" option, My preferences would be chat box, intended target, maybe the image window the CT is currently using?

[rocketvaultgames]

We haven't met yet to discuss our plans for the new year, but we are considering a roll-anywhere option. I would personally want this to still also allow dropping a dice roll directly on a target. Another item we are considering is having the dice be much larger once they are picked up and rolled, while keeping them at a smaller size for desktop real estate considerations. As always, we need to evaluate expected development efforts, knock-on effects or risks, and how it fits with other initiatives since we have a small team.

This sounds like some very interesting potential options.

Please keep in mind that (outside of some custom dice being hard to read) the current implementation does work very well and should remain an option in case there are unexpected downsides to a new system.

Personally I like current implementation. Readability of giant dice outside the chatbox in Foundry is great, but the rolls are very lifeless/unsatisfying compared to the 'physics' of FG clacking around in the chatbox.

I currently think the following changes would be excellent:

Independent scales for dice shown on desktop (before picking them up) and after picking them up, with a much higher cap for each... 300%?

An attitude of skewing more heavily to visibility/intelligibility than to graphical pleasantry for the custom dice. This is probably too much, but having separate number skins and dice skins might allow the perfect mix/match... i.e. nice big readable numbers pasted on fancy looking infernal dice, etc.

Thank you for all you do. FG remains my VTT of choice almost 5 years on now.

[rocketvaultgames]

I would REALLY, dislike the "roll anywhere" option, My preferences would be chat box, intended target, maybe the image window the CT is currently using?

Yes. Retaining the option to drop dice on a target (token or CT entry) is crucial in my opinion! As a GM this is how I roll dice with a single target 100% of the time.

[Egheal]

Yes, we must keep the drop on token or CT, that's brilliant and an important part of the pleasure of using FGU.
Here are two short videos to show what I mean by throwing everywhere vs in the Chat box.

Throw in chat (https://youtu.be/WeX3Iny-mv4)

Throw everywhere (https://youtu.be/xXZghDMXwhw)

I would also like to see the option to see in the Chat the results of throwing random dices picked from the dices that are on the desk.

[ddavison]

I also like the idea of dice sizing proportionally based on the monster/roller. I just think it would be cool to see the big bad’s dice roll with larger dice than their minions.

[Griogre]

Crit damage dice being large would be awesome as well.

[rocketvaultgames]

Crit damage dice being large would be awesome as well.

That could be another option by creature type: different dice for regular/crit rolls... maybe default to flames/glowing trails.

From my perspective, cool looking dice look cool, but aren't worth a penny. Cool looking dice that are as readable as regular dice and help us know qualities of a roll at a glance are very helpful and well worth paying for.

[Griogre]

I agree with you, especially playing face to face as a DM where I typically roll a lot of dice at once. That's why I use single color opaque dice in easy to read colors in face to face. To me FGU is a bit different since it auto totals so I don't need to read the die face and can only roll either attack or damage at once.

That said I agree most of the FGU dice are too busy for my taste, especially the monster dice, but since I hide DM rolls it doesn't matter much to me.