Campaign with Bad Map Lag and Inaccessible Tokens Under Pointers

[kalaolani]

Posting this per the recommendation of Zacchaeus on the FG Discord fgvtt_support channel:

During last night's game, we had the following issues: 1) Major lagginess (this has been getting worse and worse over the past several weeks); 2) Tokens are not accessible through circle, square, and cone pointers; 3) Snap to grid seemed to snap a half a square off. The problem with lag and choppy map usage started with the introduction of D&D legacy or D&D 2024 configuration option and has been getting worse. FG was fully up to date at the time.

Unloading extensions did not affect anything. Only completely disabliing length of sight (lighting) seemed to remove the map lag.

Console.log below ...
[12/3/2024 10:48:59 AM] FGU: v4.6.0 ULTIMATE (2024-12-02)
[12/3/2024 10:48:59 AM] OS: Linux 6.11 Fedora Linux 40 64bit
[12/3/2024 10:48:59 AM] GRAPHICS: AMD Radeon RX 580 Series (radeonsi, polaris10, LLVM 18.1.6, DRM 3.59, 6.11.10-200.fc40.x86_64) : 5353
[12/3/2024 10:48:59 AM] UI SCALE: 1.35
[12/3/2024 10:48:59 AM] USER: kalaolani
[12/3/2024 10:48:59 AM] Launcher scene starting.
[12/3/2024 10:49:04 AM] Starting cloud server mode. [kalaolani]
[12/3/2024 10:49:13 AM] Game server started. [161.35.236.97:49444]
[12/3/2024 10:49:13 AM] Launcher scene exiting.
[12/3/2024 10:49:13 AM] Match successfully created on lobby.
[12/3/2024 10:49:13 AM] Tabletop scene starting.
[12/3/2024 10:49:13 AM] CAMPAIGN: The Temple of Elemental Evil
[12/3/2024 10:49:13 AM] RULESET: 5E
[12/3/2024 10:49:13 AM] NETWORK STATUS: [Server] [Connected]
[Server Type - CLOUD - PUBLIC]
[12/3/2024 10:49:34 AM] MEASURE: RULESETS LOAD - 21.456952 - 5E
[12/3/2024 10:49:34 AM] [WARNING] windowclass: Window class (advanced_effect_editor) defined with merge attribute, but asset name does not match existing asset. [BetterCombatEffects] [utility/utility_effects_advanced.xml]
[12/3/2024 10:49:34 AM] [WARNING] windowclass: Window class (advanced_effect_editor_main) defined with merge attribute, but asset name does not match existing asset. [BetterCombatEffects] [utility/utility_effects_advanced.xml]
[12/3/2024 10:49:35 AM] MEASURE: EXTENSIONS LOAD - 0.369601 - 22
[12/3/2024 10:49:44 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LIST BUILD - 9.787736 - 154
[12/3/2024 10:49:44 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH IMAGE ASSETS - 0.121962
[12/3/2024 10:49:45 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH PORTRAIT ASSETS - 0.06088
[12/3/2024 10:49:45 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH TOKEN ASSETS - 0.104642
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[12/3/2024 10:49:48 AM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 1 - 35.288489
[12/3/2024 10:49:53 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.889561 - D&D Dungeon Master's Guide (Legacy)
[12/3/2024 10:49:53 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.017194 - D&D Dungeon Master's Guide - Players (Legacy)
[12/3/2024 10:49:53 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.480998 - D&D Eberron Rising From the Last War - Players
[12/3/2024 10:49:53 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.019807 - D&D Elemental Evil - Players Companion
[12/3/2024 10:49:54 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.724178 - D&D Monster Manual
[12/3/2024 10:49:54 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.405492 - D&D Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes
[12/3/2024 10:49:55 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.05678 - D&D Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes - Players
[12/3/2024 10:49:55 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.857148 - D&D Player's Handbook (Legacy)
[12/3/2024 10:49:56 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.188874 - D&D PHB PC Customization Pack
[12/3/2024 10:50:08 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 12.097172 - D&D Princes of the Apocalypse
[12/3/2024 10:50:08 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.308372 - D&D Tasha's Cauldron of Everything
[12/3/2024 10:50:09 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.410507 - D&D Tasha's Cauldron of Everything - Players
[12/3/2024 10:50:09 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.510497 - D&D Volo's Guide to Monsters
[12/3/2024 10:50:10 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.658427 - D&D Xanathar's Guide to Everything
[12/3/2024 10:50:10 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.571484 - D&D Xanathar's Guide to Everything - Players
[12/3/2024 10:50:11 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 1.037427 - Temple of Elemental Evil
[12/3/2024 10:50:11 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.038435 - D&D Volo's Guide to Monsters - Players
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] Fantasy Grounds - v4.6.0 ULTIMATE (2024-12-02)
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] RULESET: Dungeons and Dragons (5E) ruleset (2024-11-19) for Fantasy Grounds
Copyright 2024 Smiteworks USA, LLC
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] RULESET: Core RPG ruleset (2024-11-19) for Fantasy Grounds
Copyright 2024 Smiteworks USA, LLC
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: D&D Official Language Fonts\rfor Fantasy Grounds\rCopyright 2024 Smiteworks USA, LLC and Wizards of the Coast LLC
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: 5E Elven Accuracy Extension version 1.6.1 by Stv
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: 5E Reliable Talent and Silver Tongue Extension version 1.5 by Stv
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Critical Damage - Extension v1.0.1\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Death Resistance - Extension v3.0\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Elemental Adept - Extension v2.0\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Flanking and Range- Extension v3.1\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Halfling Luck - Extension v1.3\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Mirror Image - Extension v2.1.1\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Pack Tactics - Extension v2.0\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Return Damage - Extension v2.2\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Sneak Attack - Extension v3.1.2\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Spell Resistance - Extension v1.0.1\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: NPC flavors v1.11 (Pleasantly slouched)\n- by Tideturner
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Polymorphism v1.59 for Fantasy Grounds Unity \rCopyright 2024 SilentRuin \rAllow PC/NPC sheet to turn into another NPC and back again following the various polymorph spell requirements.
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Better Combat Effects v4.33\rby Ryan Hagelstrom\rContribution MeAndUnique,bmos 2021-2024
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Exhausted v2.5\rby Ryan Hagelstrom 2021-2024
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Constitutional Amendments v2.6.0-rc8 for 5E by MeAndUnique.\r\nCurrent HP functionality designed and implemented by Tielc; FGU fixes by Zuilin.
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: (LINK)\rAura Effects v3.5\rCreated by Kent McCullough, SoxMax, bmos, GKEnialb, rhagelstrom and with icon suggested by JustinFreitas.
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Save Advantage - Extension v1.4\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Automatic Shield Master - Extension v2.0\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:15 AM] EXTENSION: Turn Based Effects - Extension v2.8\r5E version for Fantasy Grounds\r--by Kent McCullough 2020
[12/3/2024 10:50:16 AM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 2 - 27.468341
[12/3/2024 10:52:01 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.518684 - D&D Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron
[12/3/2024 10:54:47 AM] NETWORK STATUS: [Server] [Connected]
[Server Type - CLOUD - PUBLIC]
[12/3/2024 10:54:48 AM] Tabletop scene exiting.

Note: I had to delete about 200MB of db.session.########.xml (16 files) to be able to get the campaign zip small enough for upload.

[Zacchaeus]

You shouldn't delete db,session files unless they are very old. db.session files are your back up campaign files which you may need if the main db.xml file gets corrupted for some reason.

Also the players seem to be on a map that isn't included in the campaign files; or they aren't on a map at all. Can you include the map that the players were on or point to one that is in the campaign that was causing issues.

[kalaolani]

Thank you Zacchaeus. I've attached The Temple of Elemental Evil.7z.zip, which is a 7 zip file. I had to use 7 zip to get a file small enough to attach to this forum. Rename the file The Temple of Elemental Evil.7z.zip to The Temple of Elemental Evil.7z and use 7 zip to uncompress it.

The maps are from a MOD file which is too large for a single 7 zip file. Rename all of the ToEE.7z.00#.zip to ToEE.7z.00#. It appears that I could only attach 1-4. I'll need to make another post to upload 5-7.

[kalaolani]

Here are 5-7. Again, rename all of the ToEE.7z.00#.zip to ToEE.7z.00#. After you've renamed the files in the same location, when you open ToEE.mod.7z.001 using zip it will allow you to extract ToEE.mod. Thanks again.

[Zacchaeus]

I can't open any of the map files. You have a file with 4 file extensions (.mod, .7z, .001. and .zip). I only need the map that the players are on. So unzip the module and right click on the map that is being used and select send to.. and then compressed file. This will create a zip file with just that one image. I can tell mind you by the size of the zip file (9Mb) that the map is going to be colossal and likely at least part of the problem you are having).

[kalaolani]

You probably won't be able to reproduce anything because of all of the missing lighting, walls, etc defined in the mod file. Maybe there's XML cached somewhere in the campaign. Here's just the jpg of the map on which the player's a current located.

BTW ... all of the maps, not just the current map, have these issues.

[ju95]

Moved this thread to the House of Healing - Fantasy Grounds Forum

[Zacchaeus]

A new update was just released which should address most if not all of your issues. Can you update and test to see if that has fixed your problems.

[kalaolani]

Can confirm the following ...

FIXED: Tokens are not accessible through circle, square, and cone pointers.
FIXED: Snap to grid seemed to snap a half a square off.

The next game session is Monday, I'll follow up regarding laggy and choppy map performance after/during that game session.

Thank you Zacchaeus.

[Moon Wizard]

SilentRuin noted that Aura Effects could still cause lag, so you also might try with that extension disabled.

JPG

[kalaolani]

Can also now confirm the following ...

After a sample of one game sessions, laggy and choppy map performance did seem to be improved with and without Aura Effects disabled. There's another game session coming up Monday Dec 30, I'll continue to follow up regarding laggy and choppy map performance after/during that game session.

Thanks Zacchaeus and Moon Wizard.

[Laerun]

Can also now confirm the following ...

After a sample of one game sessions, laggy and choppy map performance did seem to be improved with and without Aura Effects disabled. There's another game session coming up Monday Dec 30, I'll continue to follow up regarding laggy and choppy map performance after/during that game session.

Thanks Zacchaeus and Moon Wizard.

The map image example below is rather large, as TOEE is a large dungeon crawler essentially. 5110x6300 pixel dimensions is a bit large, especially with Los, tokens, and effects enabled. The recommended size is 4000x4000 maximum, especially for complex maps.
https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/2037547009/Developer+Guidelines#Development---Product-Image-Guidelines

[kalaolani]

Thank you for the link. Here's hoping that the FG developers can double to sextuple those recommendations in 2025. My players want a good dungeon crawl with as few map changes as possible.

[Laerun]

They might be able to with a touch of some FG optimization, however, there are actual compute limits, which anyone will face, regardless of the VTT platform or system unfortunately.

[LordEntrails]

Thank you for the link. Here's hoping that the FG developers can double to sextuple those recommendations in 2025. My players want a good dungeon crawl with as few map changes as possible.
The recommendations are based upon the general pool of player computers and the need to keep system requirements from being too much of a barrier to entry for the general computer user's who are potential users. Many VTT users are using very lightweight and/or old computers and are not able to use high-end gaming computers. If a GM and all the players have high end machines and are on broadband networks with low latency, then that group of players can greatly exceed the recommendations.

IMO: In short, the recommendations are unlikely to change significantly in 2025 since player computers are unlikely to get significantly better in 2025.

[kalaolani]

We are again seeing unplayable lag. Disabling lighting resolves it instantly. Use masking is the current workaround to a lack of lighting, but this slows down game as de-masking angles and curves is quite slow. My players love a dungeon crawl, as they feel that the map by map and encounter by encounter approach creates a contrived and "rail-roady" feel to a game. Player agency is a key to a good game and campaign.

Speeking from experience working on mass market software myself over the past 30+ years, it seems like there could be configurations to allow for potatos and slow Internet while still providing for higher-end systems and high-speed Internet. Howerver, I do know that just because something is possible doesn't mean it's worth doing or profitable.

One of my players swears that FoundryVTT has a max size of 16384x16384 with LOS and Lighting, which means the you can easily do 8192x8192. But, if everyone has a modern GPU, you can use 16384x16384 or higher by changing the MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE. Personally, I'm not interested in FoundryVTT, as I have been loyal to FantasyGrounds user going back to the early days.

[Griogre]

Looking at that pretty DungeonDraft map there are some things your could do now for your game. That map has a file size of just under 4 megs and memory size of around 94 megs. When you build a map in DungeonDraft, for large dungeon crawls, make each square 10 feet. When you export it set the square size to a custom 50 pixels instead of 70. Then, in FGU set the grid size to 25.

What you would get is a map similar to what I've attached which is now 1825 x 2250 with a file size of just over 1 meg and a memory size of under 12 megs.

You could just re-export that map with a square size of 25 and in FGU set the grid to 25 as well.

[kalaolani]

Thanks for the feedback and the attachement. I didn't create these maps, these were provided by a 3rd party with all of the LOS and Lighting in XML for use with FG. Given your feedback, I wish that I did have DungeonDraft and the original DungeonDraft file. All that I have is a PNG and XML. I was able to shrink them down converting to jpg, but was not able to scale down without losing the XML. I will try scaling down the image file and manually redoing LOS Walls and Lighting to see if that actually gets this working.

[jwatmough]

You should be able to scale down the LOS inside of the image record in FGVTT if all of the LOS is on a single layer. Unlock the image record if it is locked to expand the image tools. Select the layers tab and then the layer that has the LOS attached to it in the layers list and scale to the desired size. The LOS should scale accordingly.

[LordEntrails]

One of my players swears that FoundryVTT has a max size of 16384x16384 with LOS and Lighting,
Note, this is an image size limitations of Windows (And most 64 bit operating systems). Fantasy Grounds has the same technical limitation too. It's just about practical and performance limitations that everyone is suggesting smaller images.

Also note that the number of line segments in the LOS is a critical factor too. I believe DD exports LOS with many line segments, especially on curves etc. You don't want that on FG because it will cause lag issues. FG has a function in the image control panel > LOS tab to simplify LOS. Select the whole curve and use the tool. It will reduce the number of nodes.

[kalaolani]

Thanks to all for all of your comments, gudiance, and wisdom regarding this post. Game day is today, and I have finished reworking 4 Temple of Elemental Evil dungeon maps to the following specs: total image resolution of 2555 x 3150 with a grid size of 35 x 35 saved to the webp file format with 75% quality with a file size of 1.1M. All LOS walls were manually recreated using FG with as few line segments as possible, and all lighting effects manually recreated using FG with usage minimized as much as possible. After the game today, I will follow up this post. Thanks again to all.

[kalaolani]

The game last night did not have any map lag. Thanks again everyone.

[Griogre]

Glad everything helped. Note if you have the map pngs - a very effective way of decreasing the file, memory and transfer size is to lower the number of colors form 24 bits to 8 bits (256 colors) since that reduces the amount of data per pixel by close to two thirds.