FGU Licensing

[cordent09]

“5E only” means wont work for other rulesets including pathfinder.

This extension, as you can see reading forum posts, .txt file, and videos allows a player to assist DM by running NPCs for them. Mostly used for players to have full control of NPCS they own with same CT options host has.


I strongly agree with how ultimate license has allowed me to be only one that has to purchase anything as DM and how players (6) all play for free.

I strongly disagree with you. If a GM has purchased the resources to buy books and manuals they have a choice to lend them to a friend so they can actually be a player and play the game at no additional cost. Steam has realized this as well and let's people share games with friends and family. So they are in the wrong here and everyone knows it.

[SilentRuin]

I strongly disagree with you. If a GM has purchased the resources to buy books and manuals they have a choice to lend them to a friend so they can actually be a player and play the game at no additional cost. Steam has realized this as well and let's people share games with friends and family. So they are in the wrong here and everyone knows it.

You’re comparing a small company like FGU vs steam and demanding they give you free stuff so they cant make a decent living? Maybe you in your personal job strive to minimize your salary to satisfy your customers wants but i never have considered that path for myself. So i don't demand others do what I'm unwilling to do myself.

This is not appropriate place to discuss this anyway - create your own thread to take up this cause as it has 0 todo with this extension.

[cordent09]

You’re comparing a small company like FGU vs steam and demanding they give you free stuff so they cant make a decent living? Maybe you in your personal job strive to minimize your salary to satisfy your customers wants but i never have considered that path for myself. So i don't demand others do what I'm unwilling to do myself.

This is not appropriate place to discuss this anyway - create your own thread to take up this cause as it has 0 todo with this extension.

My question was the correct place to ask my question. You were the one that added inappropriate commentary. Don't blame me for responding

[SilentRuin]

My question was the correct place to ask my question. You were the one that added inappropriate commentary. Don't blame me for responding

You made the first comment about FGU - i responded to all of your initial reply. So i do blame you - obviously:)

Now go create your own i hate FGU pricing and leave this one alone.

[cordent09]

You made the first comment about FGU - i responded to all of your initial reply. So i do blame you - obviously:)

Now go create your own i hate FGU pricing and leave this one alone.

Wow are you kidding. Your comment about agreeing with their licencing strategy is what started this. Don't blame me for saying I disagree with your statement so you drop it. I asked if this extension would work for Pathfinder and if a player could DM with it.

All you had to say was Pathfinder is not supported and it would not add enough functionality to DM. You adding that you agreed with the licensing is what started this. Learn how to answer the question and leave your commentary out if you don't want messages like this. You drop it.

[SilentRuin]

… I strongly disagree with how FGU has made all of the modules so expensive and requires each DM to purchase separately. We were planning to pool resources and buy the majority of everything but I'm starting to have buyers remorse and I'm considering just quitting if I can't DM anymore.

If you're going to lie about something don’t leave a record of it.

You said the above in your initial comment - i replied to your extension question preceding it and then replied this part saying i strongly agreed with their policy. You could have left it there but felt you had to dig yourself in a deeper hole, then accuse me of starting it?

Go away.

[cordent09]

If your going to lie about something don’t leave a record of it.

You said the above in your initial comment - i replied to your extension question preceding it and then replied tis part saying i strongly agreed with their policy. You could have left it there but felt you had to dig yourself in a deeper hole, then accuse me of starting it?

Go away.

I can do this all day. Yes you literally did start it. I asked a question and explained why I was asking. Please tell me how you agreeing with a license strategy had anything to do with what I asked. Since it's clear you want to keep having a conversation here

[SilentRuin]

I can do this all day. Yes you literally did start it. I asked a question and explained why I was asking. Please tell me how you agreeing with a license strategy had anything to do with what I asked. Since it's clear you want to keep having a conversation here

You’re delusional. You still claim, even with the quote i gave you from your initial post you didn’t start it? And then got bent out of shape because i disagreed?

Go.. away.

[cordent09]

You’re delusional. You still claim, even with the quote i gave you from your initial post you didn’t start it? And then got bent out of shape because i disagreed?

Go.. away.

Do you realize you linked my comment replying to your comment about agreeing with the licensing?????? �� I literally started it with the statement I disagree with you. So please please tell me how my post disagreeing with your support of licensing started it.

[SilentRuin]

Do you realize you linked my comment replying to your comment about agreeing with the licensing??????  I literally started it with the statement I disagree with you. So please please tell me how my post disagreeing with your support of licensing started it.

This is a provable lie. Read your first post (the one i quoted) - where i replied in the next post to your full comment - including that last paragraph of yours i quoted.

The one time I need a mod where the heck are they?

Help! My thread is being hijacked by a crazy person!

[cordent09]

This is a provable lie. Read your first post (the one i quoted) - where i replied in the next post to your full comment - including that last paragraph of yours i quoted.

The one time I need a mod where the heck are they?

Help! My thread is being hijacked by a crazy person!

Did you or did you not say.

[QUOTE=SilentRuin;717330]

I strongly agree with how ultimate license has allowed me to be only one that has to purchase anything as DM and how players (6) all play for free.

[/QUOTE

This blurb you added is what caused this and you call me crazy.

[Zacchaeus]

I think you are both at fault. So please stop otherwise I'll close this thread.

[Zacchaeus]

Hello. My friends and I just started FGU playing Pathfinder. We realized after we bought the game that only 1 of us can DM. When we started playing together we agreed to do shorter 2 to 3 month campaigns and switch the DM between us to keep it fresh. So I have 2 questions. One does this extension work for Pathfinder? Two would it add enough functionality for a player to actually DM for a party? I strongly disagree with how FGU has made all of the modules so expensive and requires each DM to purchase separately. We were planning to pool resources and buy the majority of everything but I'm starting to have buyers remorse and I'm considering just quitting if I can't DM anymore.

One way that you can have multiple DMs is for everyone to have a Standard license. If that is the case then each of you can DM a game for all of the others. The Ultimate license allows you to DM for Demo players which Standard does not. Each DM would still need to buy any modules (books) that they want to use. Having said that if you, as a player, own a book that the DM does not you can still use that book yourself with the DMs permission (this doesn't mean that the book is shared in any way - only you can use it).

[cordent09]

One way that you can have multiple DMs is for everyone to have a Standard license. If that is the case then each of you can DM a game for all of the others. The Ultimate license allows you to DM for Demo players which Standard does not. Each DM would still need to buy any modules (books) that they want to use. Having said that if you, as a player, own a book that the DM does not you can still use that book yourself with the DMs permission (this doesn't mean that the book is shared in any way - only you can use it).

This was helpful thank you.

[SilentRuin]

I think you are both at fault. So please stop otherwise I'll close this thread.

This is a for sale extension thread - threatening to close it because he "strongly disagreed" with FGU pricing in his original post and I "strongly agreed" in my reply to his comment - is not a reason to "close a thread" after he starts devolving it into an argument of he said she said etc. You should remove all this extraneous nonsense side discussion from this thread as I asked starting from post 105 to this post.

Stating your going to "close the thread" in response to this is not a reasonable comment. Please remove what I asked in my for sale extension thread.

[Zacchaeus]

This is a for sale extension thread - threatening to close it because he "strongly disagreed" with FGU pricing in his original post and I "strongly agreed" in my reply to his comment - is not a reason to "close a thread" after he starts devolving it into an argument of he said she said etc. You should remove all this extraneous nonsense side discussion from this thread as I asked starting from post 105 to this post.

Stating your going to "close the thread" in response to this is not a reasonable comment. Please remove what I asked in my for sale extension thread.

Drop it, or I will close the thread and you can deal with the consequences.

I'm not getting into who was right or wrong; but you were rude to a possible paying customer of yours.

[Trenloe]

If a GM has purchased the resources to buy books and manuals they have a choice to lend them to a friend so they can actually be a player and play the game at no additional cost. Steam has realized this as well and let's people share games with friends and family.
I think your Steam example isn't really accurate when it comes to Fantasy Grounds, which is a multi-player online game. With Steam sharing, only one person can use the game and any associated DLC at a time. This, obviously, doesn't work with multi-player online games (like Fantasy Grounds) and has various restrictions.

However, SmiteWorks allow families in the same household to use the same FG license and associated content - so there is some level of "family" sharing allowed.


So they are in the wrong here and everyone knows it.
And I strongly disagree with this statement. I don't think SmiteWorks are in the wrong here, and it appears others don't think so either.

I don't think you're looking at the whole FG functionality - yes, there are limits in who can share what, and a player can't "lend" other players the products they own, but a GM can lend everyone at the table their player related products, which everyone can read at the same time - one purchase, multiple players can access the same product (each user looking at different pages all at the same time), which you can't do with physical manuals.

Yes, the burden of cost is on the GM - which happens in face-to-face games all the time. Players can gift purchases to the GM to reduce their burden. I agree that the Fantasy Grounds model isn't 100% ideal, but it's a reasonable compromise between online data sharing and adhering to multi-user access licenses.

[cordent09]

I think your Steam example isn't really accurate when it comes to Fantasy Grounds, which is a multi-player online game. With Steam sharing, only one person can use the game and any associated DLC at a time. This, obviously, doesn't work with multi-player online games (like Fantasy Grounds) and has various restrictions.

However, SmiteWorks allow families in the same household to use the same FG license and associated content - so there is some level of "family" sharing allowed.


And I strongly disagree with this statement. I don't think SmiteWorks are in the wrong here, and it appears others don't think so either.

I don't think you're looking at the whole FG functionality - yes, there are limits in who can share what, and a player can't "lend" other players the products they own, but a GM can lend everyone at the table their player related products, which everyone can read at the same time - one purchase, multiple players can access the same product (each user looking at different pages all at the same time), which you can't do with physical manuals.

Yes, the burden of cost is on the GM - which happens in face-to-face games all the time. Players can gift purchases to the GM to reduce their burden. I agree that the Fantasy Grounds model isn't 100% ideal, but it's a reasonable compromise between online data sharing and adhering to multi-user access licenses.

There is no compromise. If a GM wants to play a similar game as a player at the same quality he has to rely on another friend to duplicate all the same purchases. In the real world he could lend the books and manuals on a temporary basis to a friend. I would gladly pay a 100 dollar fee to allow me to share content with a single other account so we both can buy the majority of your content and both get the experience of playing the game. Instead we are being forced to buy every module twice to do this which limits the amount of different content we get to play with

[Trenloe]

There is no compromise. If a GM wants to play a similar game as a player at the same quality he has to rely on another friend to duplicate all the same purchases. In the real world he could lend the books and manuals on a temporary basis to a friend. I would gladly pay a 100 dollar fee to allow me to share content with a single other account so we both can buy the majority of your content and both get the experience of playing the game. Instead we are being forced to buy every module twice to do this which limits the amount of different content we get to play with
Like I said: "I don't think you're looking at the whole FG functionality". You're only looking at this one specific thing. The compromise is, as mentioned, the GM can share the same product with multiple players at the same time - your real world example doesn't align with this functionality. Yes, as also mentioned, the burden is on the GM. If you're willing to pay $100 (or whatever fee) to temporarily share content with another GM, then I suggest you add this as a feature request, so that others can vote on it and SmiteWorks can consider it. Please do so here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php

[cordent09]

Like I said: "I don't think you're looking at the whole FG functionality". You're only looking at this one specific thing. The compromise is, as mentioned, the GM can share the same product with multiple players at the same time - your real world example doesn't align with this functionality. Yes, as also mentioned, the burden is on the GM. If you're willing to pay $100 (or whatever fee) to temporarily share content with another GM, then I suggest you add this as a feature request, so that others can vote on it and SmiteWorks can consider it. Please do so here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php

I have upped the feature request it has 135 votes. Plus this entire thread is a nightmare because of how rude the creator of assistant GM was to me

[Trenloe]

I have upped the feature request it has 135 votes
Thank you!

[damned]

Noone buy fantasy grounds GM assistant. The owner of that extension is the rudest person I have ever met and he cries to moderators to delete his proof of being rude to customers

You acted like a child throughout the thread and then continued to do so 8 hours later and then went back at it again 10 hours later. Your initial posts have not been deleted. They are all still there in their own thread. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?81556-FGU-Licensing
Two were deleted where you posted after a moderator asked for the discussion to stop, but you continued to act like a child and keep posting, they can be undeleted but they do you no favors.

[cordent09]

You acted like a child throughout the thread and then continued to do so 8 hours later and then went back at it again 10 hours later. Your initial posts have not been deleted. They are all still there in their own thread. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?81556-FGU-Licensing
Two were deleted where you posted after a moderator asked for the discussion to stop, but you continued to act like a child and keep posting, they can be undeleted but they do you no favors.

I stopped until the moderator deleted all of my posts and left the one that started the entire problem to begin with

[cordent09]

If he silent is entitled to give his opinion in his thread I should be able to as well

[damned]

I stopped until the moderator deleted all of my posts and left the one that started the entire problem to begin with


If he silent is entitled to give his opinion in his thread I should be able to as well

I suggest you read the thread you are posting in. It contains all of your posts except for the two that I just mentioned.

The other party has quit the topic but you are still trying to justify yourself. Please desist.

[Trenloe]

I stopped until the moderator deleted all of my posts and left the one that started the entire problem to begin with
All of those original posts were moved to this thread. The deleted posts you mention were you posting the same thing again and again, after being asked to stop by moderators.


If he silent is entitled to give his opinion in his thread I should be able to as well
You are - the whole original discussion is here. What is being deleted is you saying the same thing again and again - after being asked to stop. The whole thread of the original discussion is here. Others can make their own opinion as to who is rude, out-of-order, or whatever. You've now posted in multiple threads, and created another - we frown on psting in multiple places for any discussions. You're annoyed, I understand that, if you have a genuine complaint log that with SmiteWorks via the support portal. Otherwise keep your discussions on point, don't keep posting the same thing and please take moderators instructions onboard.

[cordent09]

All of those original posts were moved to this thread. The deleted posts you mention were you posting the same thing again and again, after being asked to stop by moderators.


You are - the whole original discussion is here. What is being deleted is you saying the same thing again and again - after being asked to stop. The whole thread of the original discussion is here. Others can make their own opinion as to who is rude, out-of-order, or whatever. You've now posted in multiple threads, and created another - we frown on psting in multiple places for any discussions. You're annoyed, I understand that, if you have a genuine complaint log that with SmiteWorks via the support portal. Otherwise keep your discussions on point, don't keep posting the same thing and please take moderators instructions onboard.

I made a new thread complaining about him. As long as that thread exists I will stop. If it gets deleted I will recreate it. If I have to create a new account I will.

[damned]

I made a new thread complaining about him. As long as that thread exists I will stop. If it gets deleted I will recreate it. If I have to create a new account I will.

Take a break. You can no longer post for 3 days.

[LordEntrails]

There is no compromise. If a GM wants to play a similar game as a player at the same quality he has to rely on another friend to duplicate all the same purchases. In the real world he could lend the books and manuals on a temporary basis to a friend. I would gladly pay a 100 dollar fee to allow me to share content with a single other account so we both can buy the majority of your content and both get the experience of playing the game. Instead we are being forced to buy every module twice to do this which limits the amount of different content we get to play with
There are differences between physical and FG digital books.

A physical book I can pass around the table and share with as many people are at the table. But only one person can use or look at that book at any given time. So yes, any person can use a physical book to be a GM, but only one person can access the book at a time.

A FG digital book the GM can share with everyone at the table, and every single one of those players can read or look at a different "page" of that book simultaneously. You can not do that with a physical book. But, only the GM can share their books, players can not.

Regardless of what anyone wants, those are the capabilities of FG and probably the license terms that SmiteWorks has to abide by. Otherwise they would probably be in breach of contract. No, SmiteWorks will not confirm this, they do not publicly discuss their contracts and licensing agreements with other companies.


I made a new thread complaining about him. As long as that thread exists I will stop. If it gets deleted I will recreate it. If I have to create a new account I will.
That will get your IP blocked and you permanently banned. Please don't do that.

[The Decepticon]

There is no compromise. If a GM wants to play a similar game as a player at the same quality he has to rely on another friend to duplicate all the same purchases. In the real world he could lend the books and manuals on a temporary basis to a friend. I would gladly pay a 100 dollar fee to allow me to share content with a single other account so we both can buy the majority of your content and both get the experience of playing the game. Instead we are being forced to buy every module twice to do this which limits the amount of different content we get to play with

If you are willing to shell out $100 then you can get another license for someone else and a few books to go along with it. With other VTTs you will need to pay a yearly fee anyway to become a DM (another VTT lets you share to 1 person and 5 players without a subscription). If you play on FGU for multiple years you are saving money due to not paying a yearly fee.

[HywelPhillips]

Furthermore, products on FGU don't come "for free" in terms of effort. Someone has to sit down and diligently enter every paragraph of every book, every illustration. And since FGU does so much more than display PDFs (which is all some other VTTs do) there's also all the conversion of stat blocks and encounters, items, parcels. every map has its line of sight traced, every character class has its stats added to the system.

This is a huge amount of effort. It has to be paid for somehow. FGU's model seems perfectly fair to me. The GM needs to purchase the books (and probably the ultimate licence). The players play for free. That's a hell of bargain, actually, if you ask me. Yes, if someone else steps up to GM for the group, they need to pay again for the ultimate licence and probably the ruleset and core books. If the GM is poor, the players can purchase on their behalf and gift. If the whole group is poor, you can play an entire campaign with a single Ultimate licence and get the whole 5E SRD for free. I started off with a hell of lot less than that when I first started running games back in the 1980's with the D&D basic set- it's an absolute bargain. I bet you I could run a kick-*** campaign for a year using just the SRD.

You want more stuff done for you?

You need to pay for the time of the people who put in that work. Full stop.

I think people have this strange idea that because RPGs are a hobby everything to do with them should come for nothing. Right now FGU + PHB + Rime of the Frostmaiden costs $50 + $30 +$30 = $110 which gives you everything you need for a year of solid weekly gaming, all monster stats, all encounters and maps and parcels built.

That's probably one trip to the cinema for you and your gaming group. Two at the outside.

Have you ANY idea what ridiculously amazingly stupendous value for money that is?

Yes, if someone else is going to step up and GM, you'll have to duplicate a few purchases. Don't be a cheapskate, that's stuff people have spent hours and hours creating and paying them again for their efforts without complaining is the least you can do give how astoundingly cheap the whole thing is in the first place. If you don't think so you are cordially invited to try some other hobbies and see how far $110 gets you in terms of buying the gear you need to go SCUBA diving, a decent pair of walking boots for hiking, a pair of skis and boots, etc.

Cheers, Hywel

[Jiminimonka]

Furthermore, products on FGU don't come "for free" in terms of effort. Someone has to sit down and diligently enter every paragraph of every book, every illustration. And since FGU does so much more than display PDFs (which is all some other VTTs do) there's also all the conversion of stat blocks and encounters, items, parcels. every map has its line of sight traced, every character class has its stats added to the system.

This is a huge amount of effort. It has to be paid for somehow. FGU's model seems perfectly fair to me. The GM needs to purchase the books (and probably the ultimate licence). The players play for free. That's a hell of bargain, actually, if you ask me. Yes, if someone else steps up to GM for the group, they need to pay again for the ultimate licence and probably the ruleset and core books. If the GM is poor, the players can purchase on their behalf and gift. If the whole group is poor, you can play an entire campaign with a single Ultimate licence and get the whole 5E SRD for free. I started off with a hell of lot less than that when I first started running games back in the 1980's with the D&D basic set- it's an absolute bargain. I bet you I could run a kick-*** campaign for a year using just the SRD.

You want more stuff done for you?

You need to pay for the time of the people who put in that work. Full stop.

I think people have this strange idea that because RPGs are a hobby everything to do with them should come for nothing. Right now FGU + PHB + Rime of the Frostmaiden costs $50 + $30 +$30 = $110 which gives you everything you need for a year of solid weekly gaming, all monster stats, all encounters and maps and parcels built.

That's probably one trip to the cinema for you and your gaming group. Two at the outside.

Have you ANY idea what ridiculously amazingly stupendous value for money that is?

Yes, if someone else is going to step up and GM, you'll have to duplicate a few purchases. Don't be a cheapskate, that's stuff people have spent hours and hours creating and paying them again for their efforts without complaining is the least you can do give how astoundingly cheap the whole thing is in the first place. If you don't think so you are cordially invited to try some other hobbies and see how far $110 gets you in terms of buying the gear you need to go SCUBA diving, a decent pair of walking boots for hiking, a pair of skis and boots, etc.

Cheers, Hywel

Exactly right.

[JohnD]

Speaking from personal experience as someone who has used FG for a long time and has a lot of $ invested over the years in DLC, Syrinscape and Art Pack subscriptions, I have never regretted any of it. There were a few DLCs that I felt weren't worth the price, but by and large it is all worth it, and this was long before any of the more recent price reductions or the earlier ones on the 5e products which were initially a lot more costly.

Personally I never really truly appreciated all the work that goes into a product for sale, in either the FG Store or on the Forge, until I spent my own time making something for sale and worrying about whether I was making the correct design choices for each entry, did I miss anything, etc.... It's different from cobbling something together for your own private game and personal use.

[LordEntrails]

Personally I never really truly appreciated all the work that goes into a product for sale, in either the FG Store or on the Forge, until I spent my own time making something for sale and worrying about whether I was making the correct design choices for each entry, did I miss anything, etc.... It's different from cobbling something together for your own private game and personal use.
Kind of rambling off topic here, but this comment really coalesced a thought around recent thoughts with other VTTs (as I've been active lately in comparison discussions).

A lot of the other VTTs seem to totally miss this. They are looking to release a platform and even DLC products that are 'good enough' or DIY quality level. Which is fine in a way, but FG has always strived to be a professional software platform with the quality that one should expect with such. I appreciate and much prefer this higher level of quality and stability, even if it sometimes costs more.

[SilentRuin]

Kind of rambling off topic here, but this comment really coalesced a thought around recent thoughts with other VTTs (as I've been active lately in comparison discussions).

A lot of the other VTTs seem to totally miss this. They are looking to release a platform and even DLC products that are 'good enough' or DIY quality level. Which is fine in a way, but FG has always strived to be a professional software platform with the quality that one should expect with such. I appreciate and much prefer this higher level of quality and stability, even if it sometimes costs more.

Wait a second. I always say my goal in extensions I put out is "good enough"!

I think I feel slighted!

[Morenu]

Not sure what the beef is with SW/FGU and licensing.

Books - Ebooks, CDs - Music Streaming, DVDs - Movie/TV streaming, Physical Computer games - Game Services, Board Games - Apps... this Gen Xer has seen the lending, trading, reselling of these physical objects go away almost entirely and get replaced with Digital, do I really own it, services. Why would FGU be any different? You trade the chance of loss/theft/wear & tear for the theoretical security of always available, never wear out (Looking at YOU Cassette tapes and CDs) easily updated/patched products. They may LOOK the same, but they are not.

AND, you can STILL buy the hard copies, or in Pathfinder's case, freely download the PDFs from Paizo's linked site and HAND INPUT the info into FGU. we trade 1 type of product with its positives and negatives, for another with a completly new set of +/-s.

All that being said, Yes I would love a way to say, have an Ult. account with all the books for DMing and a Standard (or Free) account to play on. then Pay a fee to "move" the account to a new DM (Losing all access to it EXCEPT I retain ownership) for X Months. any switching back costs money. or pay a fee that all players must also be Ultimate holders for anyone to DM...

The real problem is I am guessing more with the WotC, Paizo... companies and THEIR license agreements with SW. I doubt SW has any good CONSISTANT option (like Paizo may be open to the sharing but WotC would almost definitely not be)

I am glad a compromise to this original mess of a post was found. sorry to see typical forum crap ooze its way into the FG forum. nice compromise Mods