Emergent hex crawl in FG

[paladinlee]

In my first pass searching the forum, I did not have luck, so will ask directly here...

Had anyone ran a hex crawl in FG where the map is generated "as you go along" (that likely means the hex map is edited, then reshared?) My thinking is that the FG editing tools can now allow for such a thing through stamps and maybe layers. For example, use paint stamps to draw in the next hex on the map, leaving small portions blank because these areas are simply unknown to anyone yet. I'm not finding many image resources (like said stamps) for such a thing in the FG Store.

I am aware I could generate a map in a separate utility and then export the whole map via JPG and use fog-of-war and whatnot.

Can anything be done all self-contained in FG to draw the hex map as we go? If you've been down this road before, what tools did you end up using? How about what image resources did you use? What things did you run in to in your own experiments?

[pindercarl]

In my first pass searching the forum, I did not have luck, so will ask directly here...

Had anyone ran a hex crawl in FG where the map is generated "as you go along" (that likely means the hex map is edited, then reshared?) My thinking is that the FG editing tools can now allow for such a thing through stamps and maybe layers. For example, use paint stamps to draw in the next hex on the map, leaving small portions blank because these areas are simply unknown to anyone yet. I'm not finding many image resources (like said stamps) for such a thing in the FG Store.

I am aware I could generate a map in a separate utility and then export the whole map via JPG and use fog-of-war and whatnot.

Can anything be done all self-contained in FG to draw the hex map as we go? If you've been down this road before, what tools did you end up using? How about what image resources did you use? What things did you run in to in your own experiments?

I don't have any experience with this Hexplorer Map Tiles from Headless Hydra Press, but you might take a look at their products: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/376995/hexplorer-map-tile-bundle-bundle

According to the description, the map tiles are provided as individual PNG files with a resolution of 524x452. If I were to use them, I would consider batch converting them in Photoshop or Gimp to maybe half the resolution and save them as Webp to reduce the file sizes. As is, you should be able to use paint stamps with grid snapping on and a grid size of 452x452 and they should snap right into place.

[claedawg]

In my first pass searching the forum, I did not have luck, so will ask directly here...

Had anyone ran a hex crawl in FG where the map is generated "as you go along" (that likely means the hex map is edited, then reshared?) My thinking is that the FG editing tools can now allow for such a thing through stamps and maybe layers. For example, use paint stamps to draw in the next hex on the map, leaving small portions blank because these areas are simply unknown to anyone yet. I'm not finding many image resources (like said stamps) for such a thing in the FG Store.

I am aware I could generate a map in a separate utility and then export the whole map via JPG and use fog-of-war and whatnot.

Can anything be done all self-contained in FG to draw the hex map as we go? If you've been down this road before, what tools did you end up using? How about what image resources did you use? What things did you run in to in your own experiments?

I don't think there is a way to do exactly what you are asking. FOr my hexcrawls, I use lighting to hide the areas the PCs cannot see. I use a separate NPC for them to use on that map (a horse) and add lighting to it to show what the party can see in their immediate vicinity. I also add a light to each location they have searched (I preemptively put lighting on any major populated areas the party would already know about).

[Trenloe]

The info, and hexes, provided by Carl in post #2 works very well.

Here's an example using the hexes from the "Hexplorer: Digital Hex Map Tiles" product (included in the bundle Carl links) and the setup he mentions - I'd add my vote to Carl's recommendation of reducing the resolution of the hex images by half.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60666

[claedawg]

I've used that and they look good. But, after about 3 or so hexes out, the FGU get unaligned from the images. It gets worse progressively as you go out from there. If you're making a big map, it can bog down the controls, but I think that's pretty common with any big image files in FGU. I found making the map in one campaign and then exporting the map as an image makes it run better on the campaign you actually run for the players.

[Trenloe]

I've used that and they look good. But, after about 3 or so hexes out, the FGU get unaligned from the images. It gets worse progressively as you go out from there.
Sounds like the images weren't quite the right size for the hex grid (or vice versa), and as a result the grid snap (if that was on) wasn't able to snap the images accurately. Using the settings mentioned previously I've made a test image with over 50 hexes and all of them are aligned correctly.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60676

[paladinlee]

You all are the best! Thanks, I'll give it a try.

I also tried Inkwell Worldographer to create a whole map to output and align. Alignment was tricky but I'm sure if I keep tweaking, over time I'll get it to line up. I also want to see if those images are hiding somewhere in the code that I can use them in FG instead, but perhaps not possible the way the images work in the WG app. Anywho, thanks for the suggestions!

[claedawg]

The info, and hexes, provided by Carl in post #2 works very well.

Here's an example using the hexes from the "Hexplorer: Digital Hex Map Tiles" product (included in the bundle Carl links) and the setup he mentions - I'd add my vote to Carl's recommendation of reducing the resolution of the hex images by half.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60666

Is this what you're talking about?
"If I were to use them, I would consider batch converting them in Photoshop or Gimp to maybe half the resolution and save them as Webp to reduce the file sizes. As is, you should be able to use paint stamps with grid snapping on and a grid size of 452x452 and they should snap right into place."

Wish I knew how to do that. The only thing I've been able to figure out in GIMP is to export images from websites to png format. I've attempted resizing and stuff, but I can't seem to understand how to use it properly. I think my brain is decaying or something. In my 20s I picked up a CD of Campaign Cartographer and had no problems learning how to use it (except the most advanced stuff and typical artistic things that must be learned). Now, I can barely wrap my head around placing an image, lol. At least the image stamps for CC2 can be used directly in FGU.

[LordEntrails]

GIMP has a plug-in called Batch Image Manipulation. http://www.alessandrofrancesconi.it/projects/bimp Once you install that you have a new menu option under File > Batch Image Manipulation.

You can then Add a Manipulation set of 'Resize' and set the specific percentage or in this case pixel (px) size. Then add a second manipulation set to Change Format and compression. Set your output folder and then Add images, either individually or by folder. The Apply (or run it)

[Griogre]

If you find Gimp hard to use (it is very different from most paint programs). The free for noncommercial use IrfanView (https://www.irfanview.com/) has a batch processor as well. I've used IrfanView for years for simple image modifications: resizing, de-rezzing, lower the bit rate, file type conversions ie anything but creation. It does *NOT* handle transparency though.

[claedawg]

If you find Gimp hard to use (it is very different from most paint programs). The free for noncommercial use IrfanView (https://www.irfanview.com/) has a batch processor as well. I've used IrfanView for years for simple image modifications: resizing, de-rezzing, lower the bit rate, file type conversions ie anything but creation. It does *NOT* handle transparency though.

I don't think you understand my ineptitude with art software. When you say batch, all I can think of is making a batch file on a disk so that windows will automatically boot up, instead of me manually opening windows from the c prompt, on my tandy, lol.

[LordEntrails]

I don't think you understand my ineptitude with art software. When you say batch, all I can think of is making a batch file on a disk so that windows will automatically boot up, instead of me manually opening windows from the c prompt, on my tandy, lol.
If you get stuck on the outline steps I gave above, I can walk you through the process with Gimp via Discord.

[Griogre]

I don't think you understand my ineptitude with art software. When you say batch, all I can think of is making a batch file on a disk so that windows will automatically boot up, instead of me manually opening windows from the c prompt, on my tandy, lol.

No worries. Batch processing does have its history in batch files like that and also in submitted jobs for mainframes - but for art programs it usually means make a common change to a "batch" of pictures in the same folder - in this case a bunch of hex graphics. Rather than change a few hundred hex graphics one at a time you would automatically do all the changes to them all at once. :)

[claedawg]

If you get stuck on the outline steps I gave above, I can walk you through the process with Gimp via Discord.

I may hit you up on that if I need help and get around to mapping again, lol.

Thanks for the clarification Griogre!!!

[paladinlee]

Perfect, thanks! I got this working. I found these tiles as well. It says they are "compatible" with Hex Kit, which is another hexmap tool. But, the file contains the graphic elements that I can use in just as easily. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/404654/early-edition-hex-map-tileset-for-hex-kit

I'm referring to this good ol' article from Gnomestew to generate hexes as the party explores. https://gnomestew.com/a-randomized-hex-crawl-generator/

60837

[Trenloe]

Perfect, thanks! I got this working. I found these tiles as well. It says they are "compatible" with Hex Kit, which is another hexmap tool. But, the file contains the graphic elements that I can use in just as easily. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/404654/early-edition-hex-map-tileset-for-hex-kit

I'm referring to this good ol' article from Gnomestew to generate hexes as the party explores. https://gnomestew.com/a-randomized-hex-crawl-generator/

60837
Looks great! Thanks for the link to the hex graphics.

[LordEntrails]

Interesting. HAve you put rollable tables into FG so you don't have to refer to the gnomestew site? Seems like it would be straightforward, but haven't tried yet myself.

[LordEntrails]

Thinking more on this... with rollable tables and Story Templates you could not only determine the Hex terrain, but you could create a story that you could pin to the map. And that story could also contain randomly created encounters and other details...

[Trenloe]

And here is another example using 2 Minute Table Top's World Hex Tiles.

PWYW/$1: https://2minutetabletop.com/product/world-map-hex-tiles/
$5: https://2minutetabletop.com/product/world-map-hex-tiles-pack/

I used the 150DPI tiles with a hex size in FGU of 200. The gotcha here is with the pseudo 3D effect, you'll need to change the order of some of the tiles to display correctly.

What I like about these tiles is that the rivers, paths, etc. aren't embedded into a tile, they're transparent images that you can lay on top of other tiles.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60847

[LordEntrails]

This is all making me seriously consider running a hex crawl next campaign!

[paladinlee]

Interesting. HAve you put rollable tables into FG so you don't have to refer to the gnomestew site? Seems like it would be straightforward, but haven't tried yet myself.

Absolutely! I get to adjust to taste too. In the Gnomestew article, I moved the most common selection to the top of the table instead of the middle, so that I can use dice modifiers to influence the odds. (ie. if checking against a source of grassland, move the grassland result (was 5-9) to the top (now 1-5) and if I want to sway the result towards more grassland, add a -1 or -2.

I didn't go as far as Story Templates, but would be great idea for a module construction based on one of these hex generator books, wink wink lol

The only trouble I ran into w Gnomestew article is there are two levels of detail per hex, elevation and vegetation. It got a little fiddly to create a plains (flat elevation), but then change it to forest (vegetation). I will probably try to combine these two someone and/or eliminate the veg level and just incorporate it in the first table.

Otherwise, I just rolled a bunch of times on one of the tables, and translate the results to hexes, starting from the center starting point and going around clockwise until too big, then just do one side at a time. One the land is placed, I went back and rolled on Point of Interest table multiple times, looking for a hit (two columns in this table, Point-of-interest yes/no and if yes, WHAT-IS-POI?) Again, I'm not sure on the frequency/type of POI's , but again thanks to FG, I get to adjust this however I want.

[LordEntrails]

I didn't go as far as Story Templates, but would be great idea for a module construction based on one of these hex generator books, wink wink lol
Agreed. But I have too many projects on my plate to take on another!


The only trouble I ran into w Gnomestew article is there are two levels of detail per hex, elevation and vegetation. It got a little fiddly to create a plains (flat elevation), but then change it to forest (vegetation). I will probably try to combine these two someone and/or eliminate the veg level and just incorporate it in the first table.
I think Trenloe's second example has the potential to alleviate this. i.e. the elevation is the background image, and then place the vegetation image over top, assuming it has appropriate transparencies.

[claedawg]

Funny thing with placing those images on the hexes and them not lining up for me. I found out what my issue was. I was using the Tile stamp on the Layers Section instead of the stamp on the Paint section. Not sure why the Tile stamp does not place properly after a few hexes. I was wanting to use the tile stamp instead of paint because I wanted each hex a separate image. That can be done through the paint section, but has more steps in the process. You have to either pre-create a bunch of layers and then remember where each on is exactly and then add the image. Or, place an image, create a new layer and place the image, etc... With the Tile stamp in the Layer section, you just have to click for each time you want the image pasted.

[pindercarl]

Funny thing with placing those images on the hexes and them not lining up for me. I found out what my issue was. I was using the Tile stamp on the Layers Section instead of the stamp on the Paint section. Not sure why the Tile stamp does not place properly after a few hexes. I was wanting to use the tile stamp instead of paint because I wanted each hex a separate image. That can be done through the paint section, but has more steps in the process. You have to either pre-create a bunch of layers and then remember where each on is exactly and then add the image. Or, place an image, create a new layer and place the image, etc... With the Tile stamp in the Layer section, you just have to click for each time you want the image pasted.

Thanks for the follow-up. I'll look at the snapping for the tile placement.

[pindercarl]

Funny thing with placing those images on the hexes and them not lining up for me. I found out what my issue was. I was using the Tile stamp on the Layers Section instead of the stamp on the Paint section. Not sure why the Tile stamp does not place properly after a few hexes. I was wanting to use the tile stamp instead of paint because I wanted each hex a separate image. That can be done through the paint section, but has more steps in the process. You have to either pre-create a bunch of layers and then remember where each on is exactly and then add the image. Or, place an image, create a new layer and place the image, etc... With the Tile stamp in the Layer section, you just have to click for each time you want the image pasted.

The snapping for the paint stamp and layer tiles is the same for me. There does appear to be some drift off the grid as I move further from the center of the map, but I will have to look into the separately. Both methods are lining up even with the drift.

[claedawg]

The snapping for the paint stamp and layer tiles is the same for me. There does appear to be some drift off the grid as I move further from the center of the map, but I will have to look into the separately. Both methods are lining up even with the drift.

Yeah, they stay lined up with each other, just not the hex overlay. But it looks like it stays with the overlay when using the paint stamp option, comparatively. I may not have gone out far enough using the paint method.

[LordEntrails]

Hexploration and map crawls seem to keep popping up in my feed. Makes me want to play one and put together automation tables in FG. Now there is a module I would buy. A set of tables and such for a hexcrawl? And hex images too? Couldn't pass that up even if just for solo play!

[Tempered7]

Hexploration and map crawls seem to keep popping up in my feed. Makes me want to play one and put together automation tables in FG. Now there is a module I would buy. A set of tables and such for a hexcrawl? And hex images too? Couldn't pass that up even if just for solo play!

I am looking for such a module too. To showcase hex crawl methods in the blog. But I couldn't find all encompassing one yet.
hexroll app is what I use for tests.

EDIT: Read below comment for windows defender warning.

[claedawg]

I am looking for such a module too. To showcase hex crawl methods in the blog. But I couldn't find all encompassing one yet.
https://hexroll.app/ is what I use for tests.

It kind of worries me that when I get a warning from Windows Defender when I try to install their program that allows you to access what has been generated offline.

[Tempered7]

It kind of worries me that when I get a warning from Windows Defender when I try to install their program that allows you to access what has been generated offline.

Oh, I didn't get that. Let me remove the link. Sorry for the inconvenience.

EDIT: Virus total couldnt find any virus. https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/285e2f735c95fd1c8d0ee2697eb7bb9ec035b10a5d6a79ccc8 2dfe3a34f791cd?nocache=1
61683

61684 (https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/285e2f735c95fd1c8d0ee2697eb7bb9ec035b10a5d6a79ccc8 2dfe3a34f791cd?nocache=1)

[claedawg]

Oh, I didn't get that. Let me remove the link. Sorry for the inconvenience.

EDIT: Virus total couldnt find any virus. https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/285e2f735c95fd1c8d0ee2697eb7bb9ec035b10a5d6a79ccc8 2dfe3a34f791cd?nocache=1
61683

61684 (https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/285e2f735c95fd1c8d0ee2697eb7bb9ec035b10a5d6a79ccc8 2dfe3a34f791cd?nocache=1)

They most likely aren't registered with Defender or they may have an expired Microsoft permissions thing (if there is one). I know one company I worked for let something expire and every time someone went to our website they would get a warning similar to what I got when I clicked the download link. SInce I didn't get the warning for website, I thought it might be something worse, but obviously it's not. Thanks for checking.

Do you know if that program allows you save the map as an external image when you save the map and stuff to that program? I didn't see anything about downloading or saving just the map image from the website to use in another program (like FG).

[Tempered7]

They most likely aren't registered with Defender or they may have an expired Microsoft permissions thing (if there is one). I know one company I worked for let something expire and every time someone went to our website they would get a warning similar to what I got when I clicked the download link. SInce I didn't get the warning for website, I thought it might be something worse, but obviously it's not. Thanks for checking.

Do you know if that program allows you save the map as an external image when you save the map and stuff to that program? I didn't see anything about downloading or saving just the map image from the website to use in another program (like FG).

It also has source code public, if you want to check. It's in github. I'm just a user, though. My malwarebyte didn't pop up any alerts at first, but still good to learn these things. Will be more careful next time, just in case.

It doesn't have any export function. I use printscreen to take screenshots, though. Oh and you dont have to use the software, it can be played online / solo from the website without a need to login.

edit: "at first" = at first download. it's not 1.0 yet and I started using it from the last version.

[Tempered7]

If there's anything shady in the software, please let me know so I can edit my post.

[claedawg]

If there's anything shady in the software, please let me know so I can edit my post.

Since it does not have option to save the map (image only) I'm not really interested in downloading the app. The website is good enough if I decide to use it. Since the NPCs it creates in the encounters found in a hex are for 1E D&D, I probably won't use it at all. I gave that system up a long time ago when 3E came out, lol. Although I do still pull stuff from it that 5E almost completely overlooks, like hirelings and such.

Most likely, they are just missing a certificate and that makes the warning popup on my side.

[Tempered7]

Most likely, they are just missing a certificate and that makes the warning popup on my side.

That's a relief to hear! I only took the parts that's related to content creation as an example for my blog.
I searched every single website for a FGU module like that one, but there was none, so I had to find something else.
I hope someone makes such a module, that can be used with any system, in the future.

[Tempered7]

Interesting. HAve you put rollable tables into FG so you don't have to refer to the gnomestew site? Seems like it would be straightforward, but haven't tried yet myself.

I utilized The Adventurer's Toolbox, DMG and JimSocks' Content Creator with World Map Hex Tiles that Trenloe linked for test. Grid Type: Hexagon / Size: 100 x 100

# Here's the results:

The Toolbox has Wilderness & Dungeon Generators.
61732

I roll the tables to chat and add tiles into map accordingly.
61733

Active Area Discovery in the Toolbox has some event rolls in areas
61734

World Map Hex Tiles (except the square ones)
61735

Took a small village instead of hamlet from Content Creator 2020
Then the shop was "Atrocious" so I went out.
61736

I can't upload more than 5 pics, but at the end, I died trying to climb a rock in an arctic tile because of Survival fail. DMG's weather tables were brutal.

I'm still trying to figure it out. When I'm done, I'll write about it.

EDIT: Here's the blog post.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/entry.php?457-Solo-Hex-crawl-in-FGU-Demo-Playtest-Notes

[Trenloe]

Resurrecting as there's been a discussion elsewhere about this.

Post #19 shows how to use some very cool World Hex Tiles from 2 Minute Tabletop. The gotcha with these is that the bottom 3 edges of the hex tiles have a 3d effect, so they need to be arranged in a certain order to show without this effect overlapping within the map.

FG draws images at the bottom of the layer list first. Making use of the layer folder functionality, you can make the process of laying out these types of tiles more straightforward.

Referring to the screenshot below, Line 1 has to be drawn last - so this is top of the layer list; with line 2 in the middle and line 3 being drawn first. Additionally, the tiles in a line need to be placed with the right tile being displayed first for that line (at the bottom of the line folder layer list).

Here's a video showing how to do this: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kk1siwp74rm5zhtm2czhd/Hex-Maps-using-3D-effect-tiles-with-layer-folders.mp4?rlkey=c5r6u6ldlcfhxm1wi30vcg6gj&dl=0

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66934