Preconfigured Tokens?

[Tailz Silver Paws]

I am going to float an idea here to see what other folks think, or maybe this function already exists and my Google-fu is not good enough to find it.

I am wondering if it is possible to preconfigure tokens with XML akin to how one can configure art assets. For example, the ability to set the 5ft map grid square and centre point of the token, rather than the token art being auto-squished into a map grid square?

This could enable us to use tokens that are not square and have token artwork that spills over the edge of a map grid square, instead of forcing token artwork inside a grid square.

[Moon Wizard]

That's what this thread is all about:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?80375-Pre-defining-the-scale-and-positioning-of-images-in-3D-space

Regards,
JPG

[LordEntrails]

That link is for camera view tokens. I think the idea for other tokens is interesting. i.e. being able to have a horse or giant snake etc be defined as a 1x2 grid would be fun. Though I recognize that at least the D&D 5E rules don't use non-square creatures, other rule do (though I'm not sure about the rulesets.

One possible solution for right now is transparency. Since tokens now support alpha channels, you can make a token that looks 1x2 but is really 2x2. But I can see TSPs desire for things that spill outside the square.

For instance, sometimes if I make a top down token for a warrior with a 10ft long pike, it looks poor being compressed down to a 5ft square. It would be nice if the warriro fit in the square, but his pike extended outside of it.

I think this would be a great idea for the feature request list; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests

[Tailz Silver Paws]

That link is for camera view tokens. I think the idea for other tokens is interesting. i.e. being able to have a horse or giant snake etc be defined as a 1x2 grid would be fun. Though I recognize that at least the D&D 5E rules don't use non-square creatures, other rule do (though I'm not sure about the rulesets.

One possible solution for right now is transparency. Since tokens now support alpha channels, you can make a token that looks 1x2 but is really 2x2. But I can see TSPs desire for things that spill outside the square.

For instance, sometimes if I make a top down token for a warrior with a 10ft long pike, it looks poor being compressed down to a 5ft square. It would be nice if the warriro fit in the square, but his pike extended outside of it.
Your last comment has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Squashing the artwork into a single grid square limits the artwork, you can't have dynamic poses or objects that spill outside the map grid square, when they really should.

This was not so much a problem in FG Classic, but FG Unity seems to really only want to support what I call "pogs" or discs for tokens. It's the one thing I think some other platforms beat FG on... but it's also a trend with some other platforms to just squish everything into a grid square.

But that is just my point of view....


I think this would be a great idea for the feature request list; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests
I was thinking that,but thought I would post the idea here first just in case my google-fu had not found an already existing answer.

[LordEntrails]

The existing answer is to scale the token after it's added to the map. Not a very friendly way to go about it :) I'm sure this is one of those things that was inherited 15 years ago and no one has ever really made a case for doing it differently. But with the camera view and the evolutions of VTTs, people like you are going, "wouldn't it be cool if..." :)
I'll vote for it!

[ddavison]

Can you post a mock-up image with a couple use cases so we can clearly see what you are thinking.

We don’t currently use xml for the 2d tokens at all,
But perhaps we could as an override. The system expects that everything will fit into a square currently, so we would need to consider what a change of that assumption might involve.

[Elawyn]

I like the Idea and think the Pike mens example is a good one. Perhaps it is a way to define the todays one token as an entity of two tokens. One f. E. For the body, one for the Pike. And both are stacked in a predefined way to avoid weird results. The Auto scale Option is generally fine and Shows good results on a grid

[Tailz Silver Paws]

Can you post a mock-up image with a couple use cases so we can clearly see what you are thinking.
The grey box in this example is a 5ft map grid square. Each token has elements that spill outside the 5ft square grid box.

https://www.wyldfurr.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/sample.gif


We don’t currently use xml for the 2d tokens at all,
But perhaps we could as an override. The system expects that everything will fit into a square currently, so we would need to consider what a change of that assumption might involve.
There is XML to tell Fantasy Grounds that an image asset uses a grid size of X by X, could it not the same work as token image assets?
Something like...

<root>
<grid>on</grid>
<gridsize>180,180</gridsize>
</root>

The image is then centred on the grid square. Or could have XY cords that tell Fantasy Grounds the center position of the image?

Which could become...

<root>
<grid>on</grid>
<gridsize>180,180</gridsize>
<xypos>90,90</xypos>
</root>

[LordEntrails]

Dang, I like those! By chance are you now making "coordinated" images for top down, portrait and standup images for your "tokens"?

[Tailz Silver Paws]

Dang, I like those! By chance are you now making "coordinated" images for top down, portrait and standup images for your "tokens"?
I am seriously considering it, as the "camera" style character images are quite similar to what I have planned for Isometric tokens... so two birds, one stone?

But I hesitate for tokens of late because of the squish to grid square factor.... thus the thread....

[anstett]

I will purchase those.

[Tailz Silver Paws]

I will purchase those.
Thankyou!

But what about the notion of having some way of configuring images so they scale to a certain size and position on a top-down view, instead of being squished to a map grid?

[anstett]

I personally would like to have them scale as your mock up and extend beyond the single square grid.

[Tailz Silver Paws]

I thought I would pop back in on this subject as I really feel it would be advantageous for Fantasy Grounds if there were better token controls, for at the moment a user is pretty much limited to artwork that fits a map grid square - which is basically just Pog's. The image I posted last time may not have conveyed the message, so here is another try. The token on the left is scaled correctly and positioned correctly to the map grid square (represented by the grey square), the same token on the right is what a user gets when artwork is squished to the map grid square.


https://www.wyldfurr.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/token-animation.gif

So some means of being able to set up the token artwork, I think, would be a boon for Fantasy Grounds.

[LordEntrails]

I didn't see this added to the Feature Request list so I added it. "Preconfigured Tokens" is the request title.

[Tailz Silver Paws]

I didn't see this added to the Feature Request list so I added it. "Preconfigured Tokens" is the request title.

I just went to have a look and "upvote" it, but I could not find it.

[LordEntrails]

I just went to have a look and "upvote" it, but I could not find it.
It has to be approved first. I suspect it may not be until tomorrow.

[MrDDT]

I thought I would pop back in on this subject as I really feel it would be advantageous for Fantasy Grounds if there were better token controls, for at the moment a user is pretty much limited to artwork that fits a map grid square - which is basically just Pog's. The image I posted last time may not have conveyed the message, so here is another try. The token on the left is scaled correctly and positioned correctly to the map grid square (represented by the grey square), the same token on the right is what a user gets when artwork is squished to the map grid square.


https://www.wyldfurr.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/token-animation.gif

So some means of being able to set up the token artwork, I think, would be a boon for Fantasy Grounds.


I'm not a fan of the ones on the left as I've used them like that before and the issue is they cover up other tokens and also have some clicking issues.
I can see how people would like them to be like that, but you always end up running into other issues and might go back to wanting them the old way anyways.
Having said that, I do think it would be nice to have in some cases, so maybe a setting per token that allows it.


I also wish they would allow us to link directly to the feature request instead of having to search for it.

[LordEntrails]

I also wish they would allow us to link directly to the feature request instead of having to search for it.
There are 2 feature requests for that :)

[Tailz Silver Paws]

Thinking a little further about this, Fantasy Grounds has support for isometric maps but I think the current method of handling tokens does not suit isometric tokens. Having a way to configure tokens could be a solution?

[Tailz Silver Paws]

It has to be approved first. I suspect it may not be until tomorrow.
I found the item, its just got a wonky name: Additional Token Metadata for scale overrides and

I have upvoted it, but while I was looking for it I found several other feature requests that could be rolled into this sort of feature - or at least I have seen those features contained within the controls for tokens in other virtual tabletop Apps. Such as:


Multiple images for tokens -
Save token size after encounter placement - This is pretty much just asking for the features we are discussing.
Support for item token on map
Token Resizing
Tinting Tokens
Multiple Tokens for NPC groups - This is done in some other Apps where placing multiples of the same character onto a map uses wildcarded tokens that have the same prefix, eg: token-0000, token-0001, token-0002 would be randomly used for each version of the same character placed on the map.
Control your own Tokens both 3D and Normal
Hex Grid Token Placement
Player Invisibility & See Invisibility

[Tailz Silver Paws]

I'm not a fan of the ones on the left as I've used them like that before and the issue is they cover up other tokens and also have some clicking issues.
I can see how people would like them to be like that, but you always end up running into other issues and might go back to wanting them the old way anyways.
Having said that, I do think it would be nice to have in some cases, so maybe a setting per token that allows it.
By having controls for the token artwork. You could set them to be what suits your style of play. If you like having tokens inside the grid square, set them to be so, if you don't, set them to be what you like. Best of both worlds.


I also wish they would allow us to link directly to the feature request instead of having to search for it.
Totally agree.

[MrDDT]

By having controls for the token artwork. You could set them to be what suits your style of play. If you like having tokens inside the grid square, set them to be so, if you don't, set them to be what you like. Best of both worlds.


Then you would need a setting for this else, it would allow tokens to be outside the grids.

[LordEntrails]

I found the item, its just got a wonky name: Additional Token Metadata for scale overrides and

Weird, I don't remember giving it that name... I was pretty sure I intended to give it the same name as this thread. But, glad you found it.