FGU crashing everything on my PC?

[Eddiesuxnutz]

This is a complicated issue, I'm not sure if anyone can help.

My problem is that when I'm running FGU, randomly (usually once per 4 hour session with nothing particular triggering it) it will crash - which is fine, but it also causes both my monitors to flicker off\on and then closes all the other programs on my PC like Steam, Discord, Spotify, Firefox, etc. They all just close down.

I can only blame FGU, because in the last several months, it's only happened when running FGU. Does FGU dump any crash logs? Where do I begin troubleshooting this?

I'm assuming it has something to do with the GPU because it causes everything to lock and refresh, so I'll start by updating my GPU drivers and see if it persists. Anyone else ever have this happen?

[LordEntrails]

FG has logs, but they won't tell you want is going on with the system. You can find them in the FG Data directory named network.log and console.log. But you should really look at your system logs.

Note that these types of crashes are usually due to your graphics card/driver. Update your driver and if you have done any tuning or acceleration setting such as through an MSI control/BIOS set them back to default.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

I did just update my GPU drivers tonight. I'm on an RTX 2070 SUPER, have 32gb of RAM, W10, and an i5 8500k processor. Should be ~plenty~ to handle FGU without causing these sort of issues. Thank you for your reply, I'll keep on top of it. Basically, it's just a quick monitor flash and all my programs disappear, but it only happens when Fantasy Grounds is open. What about Fantasy Grounds, specifically, can cause it? Is there a system log I could post or anything? I get no errors on my system, just after like 5 seconds I'm back at a totally empty desktop and everything works fine.

[Dakadin]

I know of one issue where a discord audio bot was conflicting with FGU and causing it to hang up. It took awhile to track down but once he moved it to another system things worked again.

[Zacchaeus]

You can right click on the Windows icon on the taskbar and select Event viewer to get at the system events. You may find something in there that will point you in the right direction.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

I know of one issue where a discord audio bot was conflicting with FGU and causing it to hang up. It took awhile to track down but once he moved it to another system things worked again.


Interesting, we do use a music bot and we had another crash tonight. Do you know why the bot caused a crash?

Edit: We run this outside of the system, it's just a bot that joins a discord channel. It's not on my system.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

You can right click on the Windows icon on the taskbar and select Event viewer to get at the system events. You may find something in there that will point you in the right direction.

Faulting application name: FantasyGrounds.exe, version: 2022.3.6.59111, time stamp: 0x64bff355
Faulting module name: UnityPlayer.dll, version: 2022.3.6.59111, time stamp: 0x64bff688
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x0000000000908b4d
Faulting process id: 0x3414
Faulting application start time: 0x01da3b87747e00c3
Faulting application path: D:\Program Files\SmiteWorks\Fantasy Grounds\FantasyGrounds.exe
Faulting module path: D:\Program Files\SmiteWorks\Fantasy Grounds\UnityPlayer.dll
Report Id: 1983633f-f64c-41e5-8b72-2e9580c079f9
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

This is the error I got when FGU went down, but I don't really know what any of this means.

I have no issues with crashes on ~any~ program but FGU. I run tons of games, apps, browsers, etc.

[Moon Wizard]

I'm not seeing this reported from any other users at this point; so that usually means that it is something specific to the way you are using the program or something to do with hardware/drivers failing under certain conditions that push them harder. Because FGU can be used with any ruleset/extensions as well as any assets, it is possible to push hardware/software beyond their capabilities, which other games don't get because they don't allow you to add custom data. All the user says is that there was a memory failure, which could be indicative of running out of possible memory allowed for a program for overall usage or for specific tasks.

* What is the memory usage like when running FG on the host machine after loading a campaign?
* How large are the image files you are using in terms of resolution (height/width in pixels) as well as file size? (images and tokens added to your machine)
* What kind of hardware is this running on? (Year built, amount of memory, GPU and memory, laptop vs. desktop, etc.)

We might need to get a copy of the zipped up campaign, as well as the logs which are saved from the current and previous sessions (open console from the launch screen from button in top left after crash).

Regards,
JPG

[Dakadin]

Interesting, we do use a music bot and we had another crash tonight. Do you know why the bot caused a crash?

Edit: We run this outside of the system, it's just a bot that joins a discord channel. It's not on my system.

I don't remember which Discord bot was being used but there were 4 or 5 of us trying to troubleshoot it for awhile to figure out what the issue was but we couldn't replicate it for awhile. Then the GM started using sounds again and it happened. That is when someone else realized it only happened when the sound was playing. We got it to crash a few more times while experimenting. He didn't have the issue unless others were connected to him. When he stopped doing the sounds and it was fine. He loaded it up on another PC and didn't have the issue again. Somehow the bot was conflicting with FGU but we never really tracked down why or how.

I am not saying your issue is the same but it might be worth experimenting a bit. Try disabling or not using the music bot or anything else that might have changed recently. I am guessing the issue would happen with any Unity based program so if you have another Unity game try running that while doing whatever you think is causing the issue. Hopefully it helps.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

I'm not seeing this reported from any other users at this point; so that usually means that it is something specific to the way you are using the program or something to do with hardware/drivers failing under certain conditions that push them harder. Because FGU can be used with any ruleset/extensions as well as any assets, it is possible to push hardware/software beyond their capabilities, which other games don't get because they don't allow you to add custom data. All the user says is that there was a memory failure, which could be indicative of running out of possible memory allowed for a program for overall usage or for specific tasks.

* What is the memory usage like when running FG on the host machine after loading a campaign?
* How large are the image files you are using in terms of resolution (height/width in pixels) as well as file size? (images and tokens added to your machine)
* What kind of hardware is this running on? (Year built, amount of memory, GPU and memory, laptop vs. desktop, etc.)

We might need to get a copy of the zipped up campaign, as well as the logs which are saved from the current and previous sessions (open console from the launch screen from button in top left after crash).

Regards,
JPG

Thanks JPG!

I have 32gb of RAM and 8gb of VRAM. When I run FGU, it seems to be using fairly normal limits of what my system is used to from other games and apps, which is shown here: https://i.vgy.me/T53z8A.png - I haven't tested for any memory leak yet, but it does seem to crash when it's been open longer. Like, it's never crashed after 5 minutes. Usually an hour+

I do use a few extensions, all from the forge, which are here: https://i.vgy.me/VhzX9h.png

My images are anywhere from 50kb for little token portraits up to 6-10mb for larger images, but the crash seems to happen even with no images loaded. A normal map for us is usually about 500px wide by 1000px tall, going as low as 250x700 or as high as 900x1440.

I think I have a PC that far exceeds what FGU needs: 32gb 3200mhz RAM, 8gb Vram RTX 2070 Super, 750w power supply (gold rated), an i5 8600k processor, it was built in 2019\2020. My GPU drivers are up to date as of 12\19\2023. FGU is fully updated.

I compiled some logs of a good (non crash) session but I'm unsure how to post them. I know how to export my zipped campaign but also don't know where to post or send it. I will compile logs again after we play this Saturday if we crash!

Thank you for your help.

[Moon Wizard]

That seems like a good amount of memory and video memory. Checking for memory usage is still needed as individual programs are limited by the operating system still as to how much memory they can use.

The dimensions you stated for the images should be fine as well; though I recommend opening the folders in explorer and sorting by size to make sure that you don't have outliers in either the FG data folder under images/tokens/portraits, or under the campaign folder under images/tokens. 6-10MB seems like a much bigger file dimension than stated though; since a local image I checked at 1000x1000 from a Paizo module was only 1.2MB.

You can send in logs via a support ticket, or by using the Go Advanced option when posting here. However, the logs in a good session are not going to provide any information, since it only gives us data on basic memory specs, ruleset/extensions/modules used, and any errors that arise.

As mentioned before, my guess is that this is related to something memory-based (large size and/or very large number of images).
* How big are your images/tokens folders overall in both campaign and data folders? (# files, total file size)
* Try looking for outliers on size like I mentioned above.
* Check memory usage after playing for a while. Max memory per application is 4GB on Windows, as far as the last data I've heard.
* Zip up and provide campaign, so we can get a look at how you are using, which features are being used, and how you are placing. Remember, we will be testing with no extensions, so you might want to do that too.

Regards,
JPG

[Laerun]

This is a complicated issue, I'm not sure if anyone can help.

My problem is that when I'm running FGU, randomly (usually once per 4 hour session with nothing particular triggering it) it will crash - which is fine, but it also causes both my monitors to flicker off\on and then closes all the other programs on my PC like Steam, Discord, Spotify, Firefox, etc. They all just close down.

I can only blame FGU, because in the last several months, it's only happened when running FGU. Does FGU dump any crash logs? Where do I begin troubleshooting this?

I'm assuming it has something to do with the GPU because it causes everything to lock and refresh, so I'll start by updating my GPU drivers and see if it persists. Anyone else ever have this happen?

The "UnityPlayer.dll caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005)" error you're experiencing with FantasyGrounds.exe is a common issue with games that use UnityPlayer.dll.

To troubleshoot it, try these methods:

1.) Run the game as an administrator.
2.) Temporarily disable your antivirus and check if the game runs properly.
3.) Maybe perform a clean boot to determine if a third-party app is conflicting with the game.
4.) If applicable, disable CPU overclocking, as it can sometimes cause issues.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

That seems like a good amount of memory and video memory. Checking for memory usage is still needed as individual programs are limited by the operating system still as to how much memory they can use.

The dimensions you stated for the images should be fine as well; though I recommend opening the folders in explorer and sorting by size to make sure that you don't have outliers in either the FG data folder under images/tokens/portraits, or under the campaign folder under images/tokens. 6-10MB seems like a much bigger file dimension than stated though; since a local image I checked at 1000x1000 from a Paizo module was only 1.2MB.

You can send in logs via a support ticket, or by using the Go Advanced option when posting here. However, the logs in a good session are not going to provide any information, since it only gives us data on basic memory specs, ruleset/extensions/modules used, and any errors that arise.

As mentioned before, my guess is that this is related to something memory-based (large size and/or very large number of images).
* How big are your images/tokens folders overall in both campaign and data folders? (# files, total file size)
* Try looking for outliers on size like I mentioned above.
* Check memory usage after playing for a while. Max memory per application is 4GB on Windows, as far as the last data I've heard.
* Zip up and provide campaign, so we can get a look at how you are using, which features are being used, and how you are placing. Remember, we will be testing with no extensions, so you might want to do that too.

Regards,
JPG

I'm going to attach the campaign here. I also wanted to note that when we play this Sat, I will be using no extensions at all. I'll turn them off for process of elimination, I will also do a fresh reboot of my system and close everything I can besides Discord. I don't think we have more than a few dozen to maybe one hundred images for the campaign? I've made about 30 original characters and we've been loading a map or two per week for over a year now.

https://i.vgy.me/xN7sgF.png Here's the size of the campaign folder - it's fairly small, under 400mb.

Of which about 300+ mb is images. https://i.vgy.me/sI48dd.png

I can't seem to add the file here as even zipped up it comes out to 337mb and the max size I can upload here is about 10% of that total. In .mod (exported) size it's about 400mb.

Unfortunately I don't have much more info I can supply until Saturday. :(

Edit: This is the largest single file in my campaign folder - https://i.vgy.me/0CsjJ7.png

[Eddiesuxnutz]

The "UnityPlayer.dll caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005)" error you're experiencing with FantasyGrounds.exe is a common issue with games that use UnityPlayer.dll.

To troubleshoot it, try these methods:

1.) Run the game as an administrator.
2.) Temporarily disable your antivirus and check if the game runs properly.
3.) Maybe perform a clean boot to determine if a third-party app is conflicting with the game.
4.) If applicable, disable CPU overclocking, as it can sometimes cause issues.

I'm going to try all of these on Saturday, in addition to also disabling my extensions, and closing every extra program on my PC besides Discord. Fingers crossed.

[Moon Wizard]

300+ MB is quite a number of images (especially at under 2Kx2K resolution), and the file size is very large for those resolutions. It means you've dumped over 300 large images (file size wise) into the FG campaign folder.
I'm thinking that the number of images along with the relatively large size of the image files is causing FG to potentially run out of memory as it has to search over and work with all those files throughout a session.

Additionally, it's not clear how many tokens/images you also have loaded at the FG data folder level. Both campaign and data folder images and tokens are included in asset usage during play.

You might think about running your files through a conversion to reduce their size by trying 75% quality and using a tool that can batch process. That may help as well.
If it continues, I recommend that you trim down the number of files.

Regards,
JPG

[Eddiesuxnutz]

300+ MB is quite a number of images (especially at under 2Kx2K resolution), and the file size is very large for those resolutions. It means you've dumped over 300 large images (file size wise) into the FG campaign folder.
I'm thinking that the number of images along with the relatively large size of the image files is causing FG to potentially run out of memory as it has to search over and work with all those files throughout a session.

Additionally, it's not clear how many tokens/images you also have loaded at the FG data folder level. Both campaign and data folder images and tokens are included in asset usage during play.

You might think about running your files through a conversion to reduce their size by trying 75% quality and using a tool that can batch process. That may help as well.
If it continues, I recommend that you trim down the number of files.

Regards,
JPG

I'm confused on what to do then? Delete some of my campaign data? I pay map creators for high resolution and sharp images because they look good, I don't want to apply lossy compression to them. I have a pretty solid PC. 300mb is a very small amount of data by today's standards but maybe not by FGU standards? Should I just delete the stuff we don't use anymore to free up space in the campaign? I do also have a lot of images from modules I've purchased here on the FGU store and from Steam.

I'd rather delete things and re-add as opposed to using compression on the art I paid for, if that would have the same effect? :D I'm going to try that, and combine it with some of Laerun's suggestions and see if we can't kick this to the curb. I'll report back after Saturday.

[Jiminimonka]

I'm confused on what to do then? Delete some of my campaign data? I pay map creators for high resolution and sharp images because they look good, I don't want to apply lossy compression to them. I have a pretty solid PC. 300mb is a very small amount of data by today's standards but maybe not by FGU standards? Should I just delete the stuff we don't use anymore to free up space in the campaign? I do also have a lot of images from modules I've purchased here on the FGU store and from Steam.

I'd rather delete things and re-add as opposed to using compression on the art I paid for, if that would have the same effect? :D I'm going to try that, and combine it with some of Laerun's suggestions and see if we can't kick this to the curb. I'll report back after Saturday.

75%.compression webp files don't really lose quality.

But if you don't want to do that. Remove the files from the campaign folder and leave the ones you will use that session. Add in images that you need as you go and remove ones you no longer use.

[Trenloe]

A few months ago another user had issues with a single image file that was monochrome - I can't find the original thread so I'm not 100% sure of the details.

Converting to a different file format might break images/links you've already setup in your campaign, as the file extension will change and FG won't match the file anymore - although this can be fixed directly in the campaign database if that is what is needed.

Therefore, I'd recommend what you're considering - deleting images that are no longer needed (just move them to a different directory outside of the FG directory structure). If, with less images, there is still an issue then the next step will be to look at the format of each remaining image and seeing if there is one or more that are specifically causing an issue. It's a bit of a hassle to do, but hopefully we'll be able to assist in getting you working more reliably.

[LordEntrails]

What about unsharring all those image files that the players no longer need to access? Will that help?

[ddavison]

Sometimes art from our publishers is sent to us in 300 dpi print format. The recommended dpi for website and multimedia images is 72, so we adopt this for official modules.

PNG is actually the worst possible choice for file type and it leads to the largest file size. Converting to webp would likely be the smallest, with JPG as the second smallest. PNG or webp are required if your image also contains transparency.

[Moon Wizard]

As @Jiminimonka mentioned, you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference in 75% quality setting.

Even just having a good image editing tool batch and re-save the images at the same setting and same file type will most likely significantly shrink the sizes. As @Trenloe mentioned about seeing problematic images before, some images are provided in very inefficient formats/sizes. I've had to do this a few times (open and re-save) on images that I found online.

Regards,
JPG

[Trenloe]

I use Pinga to optimize existing images - it has a batch facility. Find the download here: https://css-ig.net/pinga

[Eddiesuxnutz]

We played tonight without crashing, and I didn't change much. I disabled the ammo tracker addon, initiative tracker addon, and a module I don't use - but not one that was ever known to cause problems. Could be dumb luck, could just be an easier night on the PC. I'll try re-enabling my two addons next.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

Crashed again tonight, twice actually. Fresh restart on the PC, nothing extra opened (only FGU\Discord\Firefox) -- game locks up them hangs at not responding.

Did notice a few things though:

https://i.vgy.me/o0ikPN.png

https://i.vgy.me/xMTnE4.png

Does FGU have a memory leak? The longer I leave it open, the worse it gets. At one point it was using 23455mb of RAM.

[Trenloe]

Crashed again tonight, twice actually. Fresh restart on the PC, nothing extra opened (only FGU\Discord\Firefox) -- game locks up them hangs at not responding.

Did notice a few things though:

https://i.vgy.me/o0ikPN.png

https://i.vgy.me/xMTnE4.png

Does FGU have a memory leak? The longer I leave it open, the worse it gets. At one point it was using 23455mb of RAM.
FG caches a lot of data in memory, to allow faster opening of windows later - the more you open, even if you close it after, the more memory will be used. The exception to this is images - they are removed from cached memory 10-15 minutes after they're closed.

It would be an issue if you see a steady increase in memory when doing nothing.

[pindercarl]

Crashed again tonight, twice actually. Fresh restart on the PC, nothing extra opened (only FGU\Discord\Firefox) -- game locks up them hangs at not responding.

Did notice a few things though:

https://i.vgy.me/o0ikPN.png

https://i.vgy.me/xMTnE4.png

Does FGU have a memory leak? The longer I leave it open, the worse it gets. At one point it was using 23455mb of RAM.

Was there a lot of map activity during session?

[Laerun]

We played tonight without crashing, and I didn't change much. I disabled the ammo tracker addon, initiative tracker addon, and a module I don't use - but not one that was ever known to cause problems. Could be dumb luck, could just be an easier night on the PC. I'll try re-enabling my two addons next.

Video memory troubleshooting:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?79908-High-GPU-usage-issues-with-Unity-Games-(includes-Fantasy-Grounds)#post704521

Have you already tried to limit the FPS on your machine with your video card setting or the FG V Sync command?

Image optimization tips:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?80115-Image-and-Map-sizing-suggestions&p=706313&viewfull=1#post706313

[Eddiesuxnutz]

Was there a lot of map activity during session?

6 players, 2 of them having pets in a combat with about 20 creatures, so I'd say yes.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

Video memory troubleshooting:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?79908-High-GPU-usage-issues-with-Unity-Games-(includes-Fantasy-Grounds)#post704521

Have you already tried to limit the FPS on your machine with your video card setting or the FG V Sync command?

Image optimization tips:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?80115-Image-and-Map-sizing-suggestions&p=706313&viewfull=1#post706313

I will try limiting FPS to match my monitor's sync (144) if that would help?

https://i.vgy.me/0X8lVc.png Edit: I synced it down all the way to 60.

I deleted almost all of my campaign data besides the 22 modules I've purchased here from the website. I cut my images down from several of hundreds to around 50. NPC portraits from 156 down to about 15.

It never crashes right away. It's always after a few hours. That's why I wondered about a potential memory leak - I'll keep an eye on it this week.

[Laerun]

I hope this helps. You might have to limit from your video card settings because they can override Fantasy Grounds Vsync settings.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

Well, tonight it crashed after 4 hours instead of 3. But it still crashed. Same way. Took out my Discord, Firefox, etc. Screen flashed black. Said it was using almost 28gb of RAM when it crashed. My VRAM was at 100%. I did override max FPS in nvidia

There's some kind of leak going on, for sure. No other game, app, or program does this to my PC. I love FGU, but I think I'm done troubleshooting. I'll just let my players know that it's going to crash each week and that we'll have to reboot the server, it's not the end of the world. Thank you all for all of your help, I really do appreciate it and I've really tried everything I can think of. A crash a week isn't worth losing the D&D campaign.

[Laerun]

Well, tonight it crashed after 4 hours instead of 3. But it still crashed. Same way. Took out my Discord, Firefox, etc. Screen flashed black. Said it was using almost 28gb of RAM when it crashed. My VRAM was at 100%. I did override max FPS in nvidia

There's some kind of leak going on, for sure. No other game, app, or program does this to my PC. I love FGU, but I think I'm done troubleshooting. I'll just let my players know that it's going to crash each week and that we'll have to reboot the server, it's not the end of the world. Thank you all for all of your help, I really do appreciate it and I've really tried everything I can think of. A crash a week isn't worth losing the D&D campaign.

I had a similar issue with a cooling and heat issues. After 2-3 hours the PC crashed when using Fantasy Grounds only. And that's because any other app I had used was under an hour at a time, where FG was more often 2+ hours or more? I had to add new thermal paste and also cleaned out some dust. However, that only helped a little.
After some headaches, head scratching, and frustration, I replaced my default CPU cooler and the crashes "almost" completely went away. I am not saying that it's your same issue, but it's another potential thing to consider. I used a video editing app for a couple of hours and it would also crash. So, my guess is or was that I was having overheating issues when running GPU/CPU intensive apps for more than a couple of hours. It never used to do this when my computer was newer, but over time, not cleaning it or replacing the thermal paste created this heating a crashing issue. My CPU was so bad that the CPU was all but fused to my stock CPU cooler.

1.) How often do you take your computer apart to dust it out and replace the thermal paste?
2.) When you run other intensive applications, is it more than Fantasy Grounds? No other PC app is usually ran more than three hours under max load, right? Do you also run Discord, Firefox, and such with other day to day computing?
3.) Is your cooling enough to handle graphics and GPU intensive applications for 4+ hours?
4.) Most moderate computer usage has breaks and cool downs, whereas some intense apps might only be used for less than an hour at the most.
5.) Have you ever monitored the heat and such under load for longer usage or more than an hour straight?

My temps were climbing up into 75° to 90°+ celcius after about two hours and causing crashes due to my motherboard's internal thermal trip. But it never showed up unless I was under a constant load for "hours". Even under the best of conditions, a computer under load for hours at a time is more likely to develop a building heat issue. Rebooting gives your temps a break and a cool down cycle.It becomes akin to running a car without oil and antifreeze, etc.