WTH happend with Portrait/Tokens?

[Tooting Dog]

What gives? Why'd you make this so complicated.

I have many, many custom tokens I have accumulated over the years and I cannot figure a way to get them onto a character sheet.


First off, tokenbag? You cannot capitalize the word? That comes across as sloppy and rushed which probably explains the rest I discuss below. And, when you click on "tokenbag" it still reads as "Assets" once in.

The Picture and Tokens UI is now complicated. I can drag a Token to the appropriate spot in the Picture and Tokens UI, but I cannot with the Portrait? Why not?

So I click the Plus Sign and I get to the Select Portrait window? First off, why aren't the folders labeled? I can hyperlink over them for the name, but why can't they be labeled? This costs extra time cycling over every "bag." However, I do not see any of my custom images and so I click the Folder button which takes me into the folders on my computer. I find my portraits and tokens but it doesn't do anything. I double-click a token or portrait and it just opens it in one of my image editors. I see no functionality with this. Anyhow, I'll stop there. This is going to totally mess with my game which has custom tokens for characters and NPCs.

Is this because you want to force us to BUY tokens from your Forge?

[Moon Wizard]

Apologies for any issues; we did not see anything like what you are reporting during the beta testing for the last 4 weeks in the Test channel.

To respond to your items:

* General
Please make sure that you disable any extensions; and make sure that you do not have any unpacked ruleset folders in the FG data folder under the rulesets subfolder. Removing extensions will avoid any overrides that don't work with the standard ruleset changes; and any unpacked rulesets will override the latest files with the old files in the unpacked folders.
Also, what ruleset are you running? You didn't mention in your comments

* "tokenbag" reference
Where are you seeing "tokenbag" in the UI? I don't see that in any of the campaigns that I have set up. They all read "Assets" in all of my test campaigns.

* Picture/Token UI
From the character sheet, you will see the portrait area as a large image for the portrait and a smaller image for any assigned token. If you drag a portrait onto that area from the Assets window, it will update the portrait used. If you drag a token onto that area from the Assets window, it will update the token used.
If you click on the portrait, you will see a detail window containing the portrait and token fields in a larger format. (Additional fields will be coming.) On the portrait detail window, you can drag "any" asset type from the Assets window onto any field.

* Portrait Selection UI
Part of this interface is a hold over from FG Classic days that we haven't prioritized to unwind yet. (high risk/work vs. gain) This older portrait selection UI has never had labels, just tooltips when hovering over the bags. This has not changed in many, many years; and is the same behavior as previously.

Regards,
JPG

[Laerun]

All:

I noticed that the token selection cache and portraits cache has been improved over time and a bit more optimized in regards to waiting for the interface to cycle and create visible thumbnails for and through large collections, this is a lot better.

Selecting portraits, which is technically another asset type is easier to search, manage, and see through a given asset window as opposed to clicking on the character sheet and waiting for the portrait window list to populate and become available for selection, and it would have previously just disappeared after selection too, which always annoyed me if you happened to change your mind after selecting a specific portrait.

It IS a "little odd" not to be able to have the same functionality as a token asset in the new window and the lack of labels vs the on hover titles for each collection icon or bag token. However it is not game breaking since this usually only happens with character creation and a new campaign, and likely only performed once or twice in the duration of a long running campaign. I will get by and get over it. Not a deal breaker.

The potential to have alternate and secondary tokens and portraits in the future "cued-up" in the character portrait and token management window seems to be a good idea and I look forward to this functionality.

Changing work flow and use cases vs the UI changes can be painful at times, but in the long run it's generally for the best.

I personally give the idea and changes a B+ or a 80/20%, not that my vote counts or is important, but that is my honest feedback here.

I am 'hoping' that Fantasy Grounds/Smiteworks can program and tie-in some logic to swap out the alternate tokens to dead or unconscious like states based on these states, if desired, as a toggleable option, using an alternate token or portrait to indicate a level up, wounded, or a death/unconscious state, sort of like the death indicators.

Complexity, a little, options are greater and more, problematic is minimal.

Cheers.
Laerun

ps. @Tooting Dog

Lastly, the concern about being pushed or 'forced' to buy tokens from the FG Forge might be a misunderstanding. Updates often come with a learning curve, and it's unlikely that the intention was to force purchases. However, individuals voicing such concerns is important as it helps maintain transparency and user trust. I was curious to know why that came up or was implied? For my custom portraits, I have a custom folder on the top level called "custom portraits", that works for me. Tokens can still be selected from the assets window, regardless if your collections are paid, added manually, or such, and found if loaded or stored in the top level "Data" folder or navigated to your custom campaign folders. etc.

[Draykor]

I noticed we can no longer drag and drop portraits from the assets to character sheets anymore. It is far easier to search assets for an image then dig thru the portraits via the sheet. This also means we can no longer drag a token from assets onto the portrait if so desired.

Is it possible to give the drag and drop ability back to us?

[Tooting Dog]

The Assets name was corrected when I turned-off Better Menus, I think it is. Weird how that was picking up some other name.

Laerun: I think I have figured out what is going on. The answer seems to be that I am forced to save my Portraits in the Fantasy Grounds; Portraits folder. Up to when I figured this out, FGU was only showing tokens that were official or paid-for.

I'm not sure why the change, but I have many campaigns I have worked-up and I typically save my images to each campaign. That is, I save my Portraits to: Fantasy Grounds; Campaigns; Sunless Citadel; Images; to a folder I create named Characters. Though, I have varying folders for images including NPCs because I may want a handful of Kobold images that I don't need in, say, Avernus. I do this so that I can copy and store the Campaign; Sunless Citadel outside of the FGU folder and so that when I bring it back in to play it, all the images are set and ready to go.

However, if place my images into FGU; Campaigns; Sunless Citadel; Portraits, nothing shows up.

Now it seems I have to save copy these back-and-forth whenever I copy back into FGU a campaign I've worked up and run before.

Lastly, I can drag a token image into the token slot on the Character Sheet. Why can't I do this same thing to the Portrait slot on the Character Sheet instead of having to open all these windows?

Thanks!

[Laerun]

The Assets name was corrected when I turned-off Better Menus, I think it is. Weird how that was picking up some other name.

Laerun: I think I have figured out what is going on. The answer seems to be that I am forced to save my Portraits in the Fantasy Grounds; Portraits folder. Up to when I figured this out, FGU was only showing tokens that were official or paid-for.

I'm not sure why the change, but I have many campaigns I have worked-up and I typically save my images to each campaign. That is, I save my Portraits to: Fantasy Grounds; Campaigns; Sunless Citadel; Images; to a folder I create named Characters. Though, I have varying folders for images including NPCs because I may want a handful of Kobold images that I don't need in, say, Avernus. I do this so that I can copy and store the Campaign; Sunless Citadel outside of the FGU folder and so that when I bring it back in to play it, all the images are set and ready to go.

However, if place my images into FGU; Campaigns; Sunless Citadel; Portraits, nothing shows up.

Now it seems I have to save copy these back-and-forth whenever I copy back into FGU a campaign I've worked up and run before.

Lastly, I can drag a token image into the token slot on the Character Sheet. Why can't I do this same thing to the Portrait slot on the Character Sheet instead of having to open all these windows?

Thanks!

Okay, got ya. I see. Did you create a folder called portraits in your campaign folders or anywhere else by chance? Does it work then?
I have only been able to select from the Portraits main portraits folder since FG Classic. I do have a sub-folder directory in the main portraits folder called "custom portraits" that are organized in that sub folder, etc.
59489

[Laerun]

I noticed we can no longer drag and drop portraits from the assets to character sheets anymore. It is far easier to search assets for an image then dig thru the portraits via the sheet. This also means we can no longer drag a token from assets onto the portrait if so desired.

Is it possible to give the drag and drop ability back to us?

Agreed.

[Tooting Dog]

Okay, got ya. I see. Did you create a folder called portraits in your campaign folders or anywhere else by chance? Does it work then?
I have only been able to select from the Portraits main portraits folder since FG Classic. I do have a sub-folder directory in the main portraits folder called "custom portraits" that are organized in that sub folder, etc.
59489

I thought I'd explained this above but I do not always word things well. I tend to save my Portraits and Tokens in the Campaign folder. So it'd look something like this:

Fantasy Grounds > Campaigns > Sunless Citadel> Images > Characters (or NPCs, or Monsters, etc.)

This means that all Tokens travel with the campaign if I move it to store it outside of Fantasy Grounds. When I bring the campaign back into FGU, it has all the tokens and images needed, and they are already tied to the monsters in the Encounter tables.

But now they changed the functionality, too, by adding this Picture and Tokens window, or UI. This window is utilized to change the Token and/or the Portrait, but each works pretty much the opposite of the other. For example, to change the Portrait you click on the Portrait in the Picture and Tokens UI and you get a Select Portrait window or UI. If I have portraits in the Fantasy Grounds > Portrait folder, then they show up in a folder called "Data." I double-click the image I want and it appears in the Portrait slot.

But for some odd reason, to change the Token slot, you cannot double-click the image in the Picture and Token window. For this, you have to go to Assets and find your token image in there. But behold, unlike the Portrait images, you cannot double-click it and have it appear in the Token Slot. For this one, you have to drag it onto the Token slot.

Just make it so we can drag our image from Assets no matter where we store our image. Maybe they are making a placeholder for Isometric tokens at some point, but this is NOT a good system.

[Zacchaeus]

I don't think the method of selecting tokens and portraits has changed at all. You always had to double click a portrait to select it and tokens always had to be dragged. The whole way that portraits work has always been different from tokens and images because of design decisions made 15 years ago by the original developers. The only thing that has changed is that we now have a much better interface and more functionality for portraits.

[Lo Zeno]

* Picture/Token UI
From the character sheet, you will see the portrait area as a large image for the portrait and a smaller image for any assigned token. If you drag a portrait onto that area from the Assets window, it will update the portrait used. If you drag a token onto that area from the Assets window, it will update the token used.
If you click on the portrait, you will see a detail window containing the portrait and token fields in a larger format. (Additional fields will be coming.) On the portrait detail window, you can drag "any" asset type from the Assets window onto any field.


I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, but that's not at all what I am seeing.
Whether I drag a token or a portrait onto the character sheet area with the larger portrait and smaller token, nothing gets update - it keeps the existing token and portrait on.
If I click on the portrait and I open the detail window with portrait and token fields, I can drag-and-drop onto a token to update it, but I can't drag-and-drop onto a portrait: for portraits, I have to click on the + button and manually select. It's the kind of inconsistency that I could accept from a piece of the software that was old, but this is a NEW window.

Here's a video:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhU4e1ugaj2Rg_YW800vVexvkdEVcg?e=aDCyyA

[Draykor]

Prior to this update there were two methods of selecting portraits for a GM.

The first (and original) way was the method players had to use which was to click on the empty portrait box and then navigate the folders to select a portrait.

The second way (GM only) was to drag a token/portrait/image directly from assets onto the character sheet, the same way a GM would drag a token onto the character sheet.

The drag method was taken away with this update.

Edit: exactly the issue in the video. Not being able to drag and drop any sort of image l, be it token or portrait or image, onto where portraits go is extremely frustrating. This was a feature used quite often. Sometimes a token image is required used for the portrait and most often a portrait is selected by a GM for a player if only because the GM has the portrait saved and the player does not. I myself, as the GM would rather not have to dig through the absolute mess that is the portrait selection process which doesn't have a search function nor is limited only to the portraits folder.

Honestly, don't get me started on how players cannot use assets.

[Lo Zeno]

The drag method was taken away with this update.
Two problems with this statement:

1 - it's not what Moon Wizard stated the functionality is
2 - it doesn't address the inconsitency of the fact that in the new Portrait and Token UI it's actually possible to drag-and-drop a token, but not a portrait (see video I uploaded).

Number 2, in particular, is what technically is called SUX (Strange User Experience)

[Draykor]

Yes, I edited my statement after not realizing you had posted a video.

[Tooting Dog]

I don't think the method of selecting tokens and portraits has changed at all. You always had to double click a portrait to select it and tokens always had to be dragged. The whole way that portraits work has always been different from tokens and images because of design decisions made 15 years ago by the original developers. The only thing that has changed is that we now have a much better interface and more functionality for portraits.

With due respect, it most certainly has changed. And in two ways. Many are forgetting a second change.

First, I could drag the images from the Assets window onto the Character Sheet.

Secondly, FGU now forces you to save your images in a particular place. I used to keep my tokens all neat and tidy in the folder for the actual campaign. If I zipped this file, I could send it to a friend and it'd be all ready to go with the links to the custom images and all that.

Here are two images of where I would store my images. I'd have a square Portrait image next to the round Token image and, again, I'd drag-and-drop them onto the sheet. Now I have to save one to the Tokens folder and the other to the Portraits folder and now do this song-and-dance opening up this new window (I forgot what it is called) and double-click one image in one folder to place it onto the sheet and drag the other image from another folder onto the character sheet.

Maybe there are big changes in the future where this functionality is needed. But otherwise, right now, this forces us to contortion ourselves to change images.

[Zacchaeus]

My bad, I was not aware that you could drag portraits from assets onto the character sheet. I've always used the click the box and select from the window that opened. That still works the same as it always did - hence when I tested it worked as expected. Since portraits stored inside the campaign never appeared when using this method it never occurred to me to put portraits anywhere else except in the portraits folder.

As for tokens they still work in the same way. If you have a tokens folder inside of your campaign folder then they'll appear under the 'campaign' bag in Assets > tokens. This is the same as previous except that now you select them differently by clicking on the Token area of Pictures and Tokens instead of opening them from Assets > tokens. It looks like you can now drag a portrait onto the token area of the Pictures and Tokens area if you wanted to.

[Moon Wizard]

I found that some of the capabilities weren't working as intended; so I just pushed an update.

Asset drops on the top-level character sheet will now populate accordingly. (Portrait -> updates portrait field; Token -> updates token field; Image -> updates both fields)
Enabled any asset dropped on portrait in detail window to set the portrait as before.

On a related note, the top-level drops on NPC sheets were also not working as intended, and are fixed with the update.

Please run a new Check for Updates to get the latest changes.

Regards,
JPG

[Lo Zeno]

I found that some of the capabilities weren't working as intended; so I just pushed an update.

Asset drops on the top-level character sheet will now populate accordingly. (Portrait -> updates portrait field; Token -> updates token field; Image -> updates both fields)
Enabled any asset dropped on portrait in detail window to set the portrait as before.

On a related note, the top-level drops on NPC sheets were also not working as intended, and are fixed with the update.

Please run a new Check for Updates to get the latest changes.

Regards,
JPG

Now it's indeed working as described! Love it.
One minor note left, it does not affect functionality but really bugs the UI tester in me, the position of the "+" button is so far out of the Portrait area, while the "-" button is attached to the corner of the Token area, it really doesn't look good nor consistent. It doesn't affect usability, but consider maybe moving the button to the corner of the portrait.
I can easily imagine that the reason it's stuck there it's because in the NPC sheet the portrait area is replaced by the "Full body picture" area which is rectangular and wide, and it that window the button is indeed at the corner, but I'm sure it's possible to make the positioning conditional to the size of the portrait area.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59495&stc=1&d=1702633081
59495

[Moon Wizard]

I'll add a frame on the portrait field as well in the next ruleset release.

Regards,
JPG

[Laerun]

I'll add a frame on the portrait field as well in the next ruleset release.

Regards,
JPG

The default or previous behavior of the assets window "folder" button now takes you to the FG top level data folder when you click on it instead of the campaign level image folder like it used to, was that intended? Not a big deal, but the behavior is different.