Game tonight had lots of problems but we mangaged to work around them

[SilentRuin]

From my game tonight with 5E and extensions- the issues were with 6 players and myself as host in a campaign map we were continuing from a session a month ago. All the tokens for NPCs were dynamic moving ones. Here are the problems we had:


The rolls would trigger multiple die rolls for one double click a number of times (seemed a bit random so likely timing has been impacted and not guarded against with double click).


The NPCs, after I first moved them and then selected something else and back to select them again, would appear to only be selectable by health bar for me and players (not always).


One time the end of a round did the random order option and started near bottom of the order when setting active turn at start of round.


I've seen the first and third one come up once or twice in the past - but was much more frequent this time around. I think those are timing issues - but that is a guess.

The second one was an FGU bug - only it was very consistent and then fixed by FGU - this time it happens a lot but not 100% of the time like the last time FGU had token bug.

And the unannounced code change blowing Map Parcels out of the water I've addressed in its forum thread.

[Moon Wizard]

To address your points:

Double-click double rolling
All buttons use single click for rolling. If they are double-clicked, they will trigger twice.

NPC Tokens not selectable after moving and selection
If you have any detail on how to recreate this, it would be appreciated. Were the tokens specifically portrait tokens (i.e. auto-generated tokens from portrait selections)? Were the tokens animated?

Random Order
Are you talking about the "Combat: Roll init each round" option? I haven't heard any reports of any issue with that and I haven't pushed a ruleset update to Live since Aug. Did you turn it on in the middle of a combat? Any ideas on how to recreate?

Regards,
JPG

[SilentRuin]

Double clicking to roll is used almost every where: CT NPC attack/damage/save, NPC sheet attack/damage/save, PC action sheet attack/damage/save - weapons if I recall - always get confused there.


NPCs were all animated and on Rhime of Frostmaiden goblin fortress map which has a lot of green LOS they are moving on and off of. Also noted things seem to have to be farther back from terrain (green LOS) to be actually blocked from view (huts in same map). Not sure I can duplicate with just host as it was with 6 players online.


The bad end round active turn selection does not always happen so not sure what pattern or what any of players were doing when it happens.

[Moon Wizard]

Double-click double rolling
The button rolling has been standardized as a single click for quite a while (at least 6-12 months). I believe that some rulesets still use double-click for activating string field actions (i.e. non-buttons)

NPC Tokens not selectable after moving and selection
Thanks for the info. I'll have Carl investigate.

Random Order
No idea either. If you figure out a pattern, please let us know.

Regards,
JPG

[SilentRuin]

I only play 5E. And I assure you the only things not doing a double click roll are the actions tab (NOT WEAPONS SECTION). Everything else is double click to attack/damage/save and that has not changed. Just checked in non extension 5E and still double click.

So don't know what your testing with - but its not 5E.

[Temmpest]

Yeah, 5e here. Same. Double click for all rolls.

[Moon Wizard]

In 5E, if you are looking at the action tabs, all of the action buttons are single click, because they are buttons. Anything that looks like a field with text or a number is double click.
I've attached an image with blue outlines for the "buttons" vs. the red outlines for the "fields".

As mentioned above, nothing about this has changed in recent times (at least 6-12 months if not longer).

My goal is to eventually move to buttons as much as possible for all rolls to reduce confusion and clicks, but as @SilentRuin will surely agree with, every change has its cost.

Regards,
JPG

[SilentRuin]

In 5E, if you are looking at the action tabs, all of the action buttons are single click, because they are buttons. Anything that looks like a field with text or a number is double click.
I've attached an image with blue outlines for the "buttons" vs. the red outlines for the "fields".

As mentioned above, nothing about this has changed in recent times (at least 6-12 months if not longer).

My goal is to eventually move to buttons as much as possible for all rolls to reduce confusion and clicks, but as @SilentRuin will surely agree with, every change has its cost.

Regards,
JPG

To get back on track - in 5E we experienced many weapon attacks rolling twice - randomly - for double clicks - which pretty much all PC weapon attacks are. If the code is smart enough by context to execute these things on single clicks then I'm all for it. Including all the token stuff. Double clicking is the curse of timing issues in FGU.

And every change has its costs only if it impacts me, as extensions exist - seemingly redundantly breaking a function into several each containing the code someone may want to override is never a bad thing. As long as the original call is left intact as much as possible - there is no impact. But it has to be thought of at change time. Not after.

[SilentRuin]

Actually looking through double click functionality on text items I don't see how you can get rid of that and replace with buttons where the text has to support being edited also (CT NPC offense lines and sheets text). I would think any double click processing would not allow for some single click processing to slip in - but it does. That should be air tight regardless if you use it much or not.

Two places I notice it going bonkers with lots of clients or busy map is in double click of


A token where it seems to be doing all sorts of lighting garbage selection triggered stuff as if it were a single click - tis a double click should not be processing vision single click stuff



In text die rolls (attack/damage/save) - somehow it interprets it as two separate click processing even though it only should be processed on double click


Fix these issues where double click does not somehow slip into single click processing and you'd solve a lot of your mystery can't duplicate problems people have reported over the years.

[SilentRuin]

Double-click double rolling
The button rolling has been standardized as a single click for quite a while (at least 6-12 months). I believe that some rulesets still use double-click for activating string field actions (i.e. non-buttons)

NPC Tokens not selectable after moving and selection
Thanks for the info. I'll have Carl investigate.

Regards,
JPG

Any chance these two will be addressed by my Mondays game? I've removed all animated tokens from my map but was hoping against hope something might have been discovered about these two things.

Particularly:


Why double clicks have map process single click functionality in vision all the time (should not) and rolls process them as single clicks sometimes (should not).



Why tokens require selection of health bar sometimes to get token selected or dragged (I remember this as a map bug way back when but thought it was fixed). Seems when moving around terrain LOS and transitioning is when it gets "lost" on selectability of whole token but not sure.

[pindercarl]

Any chance these two will be addressed by my Mondays game? I've removed all animated tokens from my map but was hoping against hope something might have been discovered about these two things.

Particularly:


Why double clicks have map process single click functionality in vision all the time (should not) and rolls process them as single clicks sometimes (should not).



Why tokens require selection of health bar sometimes to get token selected or dragged (I remember this as a map bug way back when but thought it was fixed). Seems when moving around terrain LOS and transitioning is when it gets "lost" on selectability of whole token but not sure.


I found a possible situation where an animated token might not be selectable. There was a fix made for this and I believe it is currently in the Test channel. If you can verify whether or not it fixes the issue, that would be appreciated.

Is the double-click issue you're describing with tokens double-clicking the token on the map, or double-clicking on the combat tracker?

[Moon Wizard]

For double-click vs. single-click,
the current behavior is that buttons are single click, and string/number fields are double-click. Double-click is already disabled for buttons. That has been in place for many months, and there are no plans to change at this time. You mention "map process" and "in vision", so I'm not sure if you're talking about fields or something else.

For NPC tokens not being selectable after some interactions,
that was fixed in a Test application client update a couple days ago.

Regards,
JPG

[SilentRuin]

I found a possible situation where an animated token might not be selectable. There was a fix made for this and I believe it is currently in the Test channel. If you can verify whether or not it fixes the issue, that would be appreciated.

Is the double-click issue you're describing with tokens double-clicking the token on the map, or double-clicking on the combat tracker?

I actually have removed all the animated tokens due to the number of issues I had this last game just to see if it would resolve things. As I could not always duplicated it (and can't for sure now if its animated tokens) I'll have to assume you fixed it.

The double-click issue is with the token on the map.

[SilentRuin]

For double-click vs. single-click,
the current behavior is that buttons are single click, and string/number fields are double-click. Double-click is already disabled for buttons. That has been in place for many months, and there are no plans to change at this time. You mention "map process" and "in vision", so I'm not sure if you're talking about fields or something else.


Not sure what your talking about. I thought I was very clear in this post on what the issue is. Nothing your saying here indicates you understood what I meant. You can duplicate this very easily by doulbe-clicking a token in the map with LOS and lighting where the vision is in play. It will change showing its processing the single click.

And NOTHING should be processing a single click when a double click is done - anywhere. If your code is not checking to make sure something with a single click trigger is not a double click - then that would be the issue. And issues there are.

[Trenloe]

For the double-click action appearing to run multiple times - can you provide sections for the chatlog.html file from the campaign when this was happening? I'm thinking it might be more an issue with targeting - i.e. FG having, or thinking it has, more than one target, which would trigger multiple actions for one double-click.

[SilentRuin]

For the double-click action appearing to run multiple times - can you provide sections for the chatlog.html file from the campaign when this was happening? I'm thinking it might be more an issue with targeting - i.e. FG having, or thinking it has, more than one target, which would trigger multiple actions for one double-click.

As I’ve previously discussed there are two issues for the double click - map tokens triggering vision selection changes (which they should not) and text fields like attack/damage/save triggering multiple die rolls. The first (map) always happens and anyone should be able to see - the second only happens when 6 players on busy LOS map with lots of animated tokens - or so I assume as it did not always occur. Nothing to do with overlapping.

[Trenloe]

As I’ve previously discussed there are two issues for the double click - map tokens triggering vision selection changes (which they should not) and text fields like attack/damage/save triggering multiple die rolls. The first (map) always happens and anyone should be able to see - the second only happens when 6 players on busy LOS map with lots of animated tokens - or so I assume as it did not always occur. Nothing to do with overlapping.
I was specifically referring to the double-click to activate FG actions (attack, damage, etc.) and was just offering an avenue to look into - as it might be token related, that could also impact targeting. Just spit-balling ideas to look at that may help the FG devs identify the issue. I think it's worth a quick check in the chatlog .html file, up to you whether you think that's worth pursuing or not.

[SilentRuin]

I was specifically referring to the double-click to activate FG actions (attack, damage, etc.) and was just offering an avenue to look into - as it might be token related, that could also impact targeting. Just spit-balling ideas to look at that may help the FG devs identify the issue. I think it's worth a quick check in the chatlog .html file, up to you whether you think that's worth pursuing or not.
Consistent user error on targeting? That would be worth looking at the logs for sure as I did not notice it, but by no means would I trust my players having targeted themselves by accident and me missing it. Will search logs for are on that one when I can.

Good idea - I usually always catch those but I’d rather it be my mistake in missing that than a bug.

[SilentRuin]

Well played Trenloe, it was targeting errors by my players.

Usually I catch this, but as we were having so many targeting issues (select problem SW says is now fixed) I did not check as thoroughly as I normally would on their targeting.

I was completely out of the zone for double checking their targeting due to handling the selection issue almost every turn, and took it as another facet of selection bug.

Totally my bad on this. Thank you for forcing me to check the chatlog (which of course showed I was busted in my chatlogwhisper code - so thanks for that also).

I will KILL my players Monday for this. Below is where they tried 3 times to roll an attack where we thought multiple dice rolls were occurring.

Kelvin: [ATTACK (R)] Crossbow, Heavy [EFFECTS +2] [d20+9 = 18]
Attack (R) (Crossbow, Heavy) [18] -> [at Worg] [HIT]
Kelvin: [ATTACK (R)] Crossbow, Heavy [EFFECTS +2] [DIS] [DROPPED 20] [r20+9 = 20]
Attack (R) (Crossbow, Heavy) [20] -> [at 'The Piper'] [HIT]

Kelvin: [ATTACK (R)] Crossbow, Heavy [EFFECTS +2] [d20+9 = 18]
Attack (R) (Crossbow, Heavy) [18] -> [at Worg] [HIT]
Kelvin: [ATTACK (R)] Crossbow, Heavy [EFFECTS +2] [DIS] [DROPPED 19] [r20+9 = 23]
Attack (R) (Crossbow, Heavy) [23] -> [at 'The Piper'] [HIT]

Kelvin: [ATTACK (R)] Crossbow, Heavy [EFFECTS +2] [d20+9 = 28]
Attack (R) (Crossbow, Heavy) [28] -> [at Worg] [HIT]
Kelvin: [ATTACK (R)] Crossbow, Heavy [EFFECTS +2] [DIS] [DROPPED 10] [r20+9 = 11]
Attack (R) (Crossbow, Heavy) [11] -> [at 'The Piper'] [MISS]

[SilentRuin]

Double-clicking on map to get a token to show its sheet has become even harder now (LOS lighting map). As I pointed out the map is interpreting every part of a double click on a token as a click and processing the select and vision off an on every time and no sheet will come up (used to be if you did it enough it would - now its even worse).

[Tooting Dog]

I am completely lost on this double-click vs single-click.

On the MAIN page of the character sheet for DND 5e, to roll any ABILITY or SAVING THROW I have to double-click. In the SKILLS tab, I have to double-click any skill to roll.

If I am doing this incorrectly, as would be my table, and there is another way to roll these things that are based on a single-click, I would like to know what that is. Otherwise, my ACTIONS tab all require single-clicks for rolls, but the other tabs require double-clicks for rolls.

[LordEntrails]

I am completely lost on this double-click vs single-click.

On the MAIN page of the character sheet for DND 5e, to roll any ABILITY or SAVING THROW I have to double-click. In the SKILLS tab, I have to double-click any skill to roll.

If I am doing this incorrectly, as would be my table, and there is another way to roll these things that are based on a single-click, I would like to know what that is. Otherwise, my ACTIONS tab all require single-clicks for rolls, but the other tabs require double-clicks for rolls.
When you see a button, not a text field, it is single click. Text fields, like the skill total, are text fields and require double click. If they activated on a single click, people would trigger them when selecting them to edit the value.

[Tooting Dog]

Mister Entrails, I completely see your point. But it does not alleviate the problem players have with figuring out if they should single or double-click. I DM one game and am playing in two, and every session I see several rolls where someone double-clicked when they should not have. I've gotten into the habit of single-clicking something first, and if no die is rolled, I then double-click. Maybe everything should be a double-click when you wish for a die to roll?

[LordEntrails]

I was only trying to answer your question.
I too find it confusing. I also know Moon as said they are working on changing/clarifying the paradigm. I also tolerate the confusion because I understand other things are more important.