lousilver
November 25th, 2023, 20:14
Hi,
My question is to ask how other GMS handle large encounters, and whether that changes when you're using a VTT.
I'm at the tail end of a large project converting 2E adventures to 5E, over 800 pages. In several instances the PCs must, in a single long rest, infiltrate a place occupied by many NPCs, achieve the objective and get out. I have prepared in advance both individual and mob style encounters. Two groups are running through the campaign.
In the one instance (actually the second) it was 80 lizardfolk with a dozen or more giant lizards, followed by a tower filled with more (a pair of leaders, a pair of giant lizards, a shaman, and common lizardfolk, with terrain advantage). Both groups essentially start mass combat right off the bat. For the first group I used individual NPCs, and as i didn't want 80 NPCs all going at once, i used individual initiative. But then i'm bouncing all over the map, and still going through 80 NPCs as quickly and efficiently as I can in each round. But, the combat (to me) felt better, as well be explained via the second group, which I used the mobs. Each mob represented 10 individuals for total HP, and I used the DMG rules for mob combat, calculating the damage they'd inflict on each PC in advance. It had it's own issues, where a single melee hit could cross "multiple" NPCs (rather than be limited to their individual max HP), AOE spells were clunkier (for example, there's no way to track a bunch of NPCs reduce to 5 hp, rather than merely reducing the mob total hp and claiming most as dead). I didn't like it.
The other instance was a structure housing 200 soldiers, 50 knights, plus a boss encounter, with the primary mission to free a prisoner, but everyone wants to wipe the garrison because they NPCs a recurring evil that they hate. In both cases the PCs sneak deep into the structure, one one group initiating non-discreet very loud combat with the rather tough boss encounter in front, and 250 troops between them and the exit descending on them. The other group just gets dead-center completely surrounded with multiple avenues of attack against them in every direction and initiate wholesale slaughter (they were only saved by hurling bottled fiends behind enemy lines that the soldiers had no way of hurting, that the PCs themselves could barely deal with once they fiends eventually turned on them, but they're nearly out of such bottles).
In both scenarios, the players knew very well what they were up against. Perhaps assuming that the GM would not give them so many to kill with no chance of survival, neglecting the concept of a stealth mission. And now I'm working on a module that involves infiltrating a mobile castle to steal something, where even at T4 level is a suicide mission for a full on assault similar to above (thousands of higher CR fiends).
In each scenario there are plenty of ways and opportunities to sneak in and sneak out, or to tactically engage the enemy through pinch points, etc. Instead, in every case, either through role play, bad luck or bad choices, they trigger mass combat in a single encounter in an open nearly indefensible space against the entire garrison.
And in future scenario the stakes are even higher where, at least in theory, full-frontal assaults are suicidal. Sometimes they have clever plans that pull a well-deserved hail mary. But what happens if their plan goes south? So GMs, how do you handle these scenarios? Is the simple answer, be willing to let them die? Each group has been in this campaign for 1-2 years, with another year+ of content. Some kind of intervention that lets them walk away, but the mission is a failure? Like how chances should they get before the entire nine hells and azmodeus himself comes down on the PCs? (like i said, the prize they're after is high stakes. It's one thing for a tactical strike, but it's another for 4-6 PCs in a prolonged siege in the lower layers of Baator).
My question is to ask how other GMS handle large encounters, and whether that changes when you're using a VTT.
I'm at the tail end of a large project converting 2E adventures to 5E, over 800 pages. In several instances the PCs must, in a single long rest, infiltrate a place occupied by many NPCs, achieve the objective and get out. I have prepared in advance both individual and mob style encounters. Two groups are running through the campaign.
In the one instance (actually the second) it was 80 lizardfolk with a dozen or more giant lizards, followed by a tower filled with more (a pair of leaders, a pair of giant lizards, a shaman, and common lizardfolk, with terrain advantage). Both groups essentially start mass combat right off the bat. For the first group I used individual NPCs, and as i didn't want 80 NPCs all going at once, i used individual initiative. But then i'm bouncing all over the map, and still going through 80 NPCs as quickly and efficiently as I can in each round. But, the combat (to me) felt better, as well be explained via the second group, which I used the mobs. Each mob represented 10 individuals for total HP, and I used the DMG rules for mob combat, calculating the damage they'd inflict on each PC in advance. It had it's own issues, where a single melee hit could cross "multiple" NPCs (rather than be limited to their individual max HP), AOE spells were clunkier (for example, there's no way to track a bunch of NPCs reduce to 5 hp, rather than merely reducing the mob total hp and claiming most as dead). I didn't like it.
The other instance was a structure housing 200 soldiers, 50 knights, plus a boss encounter, with the primary mission to free a prisoner, but everyone wants to wipe the garrison because they NPCs a recurring evil that they hate. In both cases the PCs sneak deep into the structure, one one group initiating non-discreet very loud combat with the rather tough boss encounter in front, and 250 troops between them and the exit descending on them. The other group just gets dead-center completely surrounded with multiple avenues of attack against them in every direction and initiate wholesale slaughter (they were only saved by hurling bottled fiends behind enemy lines that the soldiers had no way of hurting, that the PCs themselves could barely deal with once they fiends eventually turned on them, but they're nearly out of such bottles).
In both scenarios, the players knew very well what they were up against. Perhaps assuming that the GM would not give them so many to kill with no chance of survival, neglecting the concept of a stealth mission. And now I'm working on a module that involves infiltrating a mobile castle to steal something, where even at T4 level is a suicide mission for a full on assault similar to above (thousands of higher CR fiends).
In each scenario there are plenty of ways and opportunities to sneak in and sneak out, or to tactically engage the enemy through pinch points, etc. Instead, in every case, either through role play, bad luck or bad choices, they trigger mass combat in a single encounter in an open nearly indefensible space against the entire garrison.
And in future scenario the stakes are even higher where, at least in theory, full-frontal assaults are suicidal. Sometimes they have clever plans that pull a well-deserved hail mary. But what happens if their plan goes south? So GMs, how do you handle these scenarios? Is the simple answer, be willing to let them die? Each group has been in this campaign for 1-2 years, with another year+ of content. Some kind of intervention that lets them walk away, but the mission is a failure? Like how chances should they get before the entire nine hells and azmodeus himself comes down on the PCs? (like i said, the prize they're after is high stakes. It's one thing for a tactical strike, but it's another for 4-6 PCs in a prolonged siege in the lower layers of Baator).