Distributing Rulesets

[MadJack]

I have a question about distributing rulesets.

I have looked at several posts about it here and I am confused about one point. If the ruleset has no modules in it, i.e. rules information, why would you need to get permission from the company that owns the rules? I mean it is pretty much a character sheet at that point. I am asking as I am near completion on a ruleset for Serenity but I have intentionally created it as a module-less ruleset as I don't think there would be a problem distributing it that way.

Anyone know the deal with that?

I can see things like the d20 one where it has all the feats, spells etc. in it being an issue to get distributed. And to tell you the truth I don't see any company agreeing to that one. But without that component it should be the same as creating customer character sheets. You can still play easily. Just have to use your books to look things up instead of the hot links.

If that is the case then FG should really look into building a library of Rulesets that don't have the actual rules for the games in them but just the character sheets and combat trackers for them. It would open the software up for way more users without infringing on any copyrights. Obviously they wouldn't be as convenient as just dragging and dropping feats and whatnot onto the sheet but being able to play at all would be enough for most people.

Just a thought.

[Griogre]

The problem with your idea is that character sheets are copyrighted, though they often do say they may be copied for personal use. Still that is a big differance from premission to distribute the sheet. However, most game companys would probably allow a charactersheet only ruleset as a promotion for their game if you were to ask them. The point is you do have to ask them and get their OK.

The d20 rules are a special case because the SRD and OGL specifically allow its distribution by third parties. They setup a specific framework of what is allowed and what is not. Most other systems and publishers have not done this.

[joshuha]

The problem with your idea is that character sheets are copyrighted, though they often do say they may be copied for personal use. Still that is a big differance from premission to distribute the sheet. However, most game companys would probably allow a charactersheet only ruleset as a promotion for their game if you were to ask them. The point is you do have to ask them and get their OK.

The d20 rules are a special case because the SRD and OGL specifically allow its distribution by third parties. They setup a specific framework of what is allowed and what is not. Most other systems and publishers have not done this.

Besides what Griogre states (which is the main reason) people also tend to include graphics and rule mechanics in their sheets that they don't have permission to use as well.

[MadJack]

Ok. I get that point. Though there are numerous custom character sheets out there that I am sure no one gets sued over.

But that puts me on a new idea.

Why don't the makers of fantasy grounds secure the permission to create these simple rulesets from the game owners and sell those for a nominal fee. $5 or something like that. The rules sets could be just a character sheet and combat tracker for that system with the stubs for actually entering in the rules later if the user has the time or inclination.

Seems like a good way to draw more people to the software. After all d20 may be the most popular game system out now but there are tonnes of players that don't play it at all or it is only one of several games they play.

Just a thought.

[MadJack]

Besides what Griogre states (which is the main reason) people also tend to include graphics and rule mechanics in their sheets that they don't have permission to use as well.

I was kinda meaning rulesets with no copyrighted material. Just the sheet and combat tracker. No graphics, no rules, etc. Just enough to be able to play online if you own the rules.

FG is for playing online but with only one ruleset available easily it really limits it's usefulness unless the user is willing to spend serious time to create their own. Simple rulesets with no rules in them but a character sheet & combat tracker would be a quick gateway to so many more users. And I could see that being easy to secure the permission to create from most game companies.

Again just a thought.

[Sorontar]

Well if you look at the work Digital Adventures have done and then look at the titles they have in the pipeline that angle is already being covered somewhat.

God I'm looking forward to Rolemaster, having a player shoot himself in the foot is going to be ace :)

[joshuha]

Well there is a generic ruleset floating about that could be used for most anything and Smiteworks has some plans in the works to make it easier to create sheets.

About securing permissions, I am sure Kevin at Digital Adventures can shed light on the process but its not easy. Other companies tend to outright ignore you or say no because they don't understand what Fantasy Grounds is and think you are giving an outlet for playing the game without the books (I realize you say no rules but they don't understand that). Also, many of them may have other "eletronic" software agreements with other companies and yes a digital sheet in another piece of software may violate those licenses.

Having said all that, there is nothing wrong with creating a sheet for yourself for your favorite system and using it. It's the distribution that can get you in trouble.

[MadJack]

That is really too bad. FG is a great piece of software but most of my friends don't play D&D so getting them into it is pretty much impossible since none of them are willing to create a ruleset for the games we play (WoD, Cyberpunk, L5R, Serenity and thinking of SW Saga and True 20).

I am working on a set for Serenity but the time investiture is pretty steep for someone who doesn't have a lot of free time (work, family, martial arts, gaming, etc) so it is taking awhile. :) I am sure it will get faster when I get better at it.

[NineShadowEyes]

It seems to me gaming companies should be falling over themselves to get a ruleset for FG to market.

I dropped $300 on Warhammer books just as soon as I found a WFRP ruleset. The two other gamers in my group dropped some cash on WFRP, too. We can't be the only ones who would do something like that.

[Astinus]

Well there is a generic ruleset floating about that could be used for most anything and Smiteworks has some plans in the works to make it easier to create sheets.

How much easier to create sheets? Can you give us any details? Right now I'd never attempt a character sheet. But if it was easier I sure would, just to include all my house rules.

[Griogre]

That is really too bad. FG is a great piece of software but most of my friends don't play D&D so getting them into it is pretty much impossible since none of them are willing to create a ruleset for the games we play (WoD, Cyberpunk, L5R, Serenity and thinking of SW Saga and True 20).

I am working on a set for Serenity but the time investiture is pretty steep for someone who doesn't have a lot of free time (work, family, martial arts, gaming, etc) so it is taking awhile. :) I am sure it will get faster when I get better at it.
I would certainly recomend you start with Toadwart's Generic Character sheet ruleset. It is just a couple page sheet like a piece of paper you can use with any RPG. You could be gaming with that while you work on your own ruleset or character sheet if you wish. One of the best thing I think about FG is you don't really *need* a fancy ruleset or character sheet to start playing.

[tdwyer11b]

Well there is a generic ruleset floating about that could be used for most anything and Smiteworks has some plans in the works to make it easier to create sheets.

Yeah, I'm interested in this little bit as well. Are we talking about something similar to what GRiP uses?

[Tristram]

As far as I know it is ok for you to create a custom ruleset for your personal use. You just can't share the actual code with anyone else. When your players connect to you as the host they will be playing using your ruleset so they don't have to create anything themselves. Then when offline they don't have access to that code so everything is ok. So, when you say "most of my friends don't play D&D so getting them into FG is pretty much impossible since none of them are willing to create a ruleset for the games we play" you still will be able to play the custom ruleset you've created with them. Hopefully that will get them interested in FG and maybe willing to try making a ruleset if they want to play a different system. Otherwise, as has been stated, Digital Adventures is a great resource or the Toadwart's Generic Character sheet ruleset.

[joshuha]

Yeah, I'm interested in this little bit as well. Are we talking about something similar to what GRiP uses?

Not familair with GRiP and right now this is still in the planning stage so the details on how its going to be implemented could change.

There is a careful balance of being able to provide functionality (like fields calculated off other fields) and making it easy to use. When SmiteWorks gets closer to somethingI can show I will try and grab screenshots or a make a flash demo video.