Second Edition Remastered

[Gwaihir Scout]

Paizo announced that while they're republishing books under the ORC license, they're making some minor changes to the material in the core books. Some OGL-only creatures, spells, and items will not be returning in the new books. Also some material is getting moved to another book.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siae?Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Remaster-Project

My interest is in just how much of a headache will this be for FG users.

[Trenloe]

I'm watching with interest...

[MaxAstro]

I don't think it will be much of a pain at all, since the old books will still have that material and still be legal. The only thing that could be a slight pain is that they are removing Alignment from the system, but even that change is intended to be backwards-compatible from what I've heard.

Of course, I have no idea how the new license affects Fantasy Grounds. :)

[danman71]

Any chance we will get the Gamemastry Guide before all these changes happen next fall?

[Trenloe]

Any chance we will get the Gamemastry Guide before all these changes happen next fall?
I think with these changes including data from the Gamesmastery guide that it pretty much means we won't be converting the "old" Gamesmastery guide. All subject to exactly what content is in which product and what coding in the ruleset is required, so that's purely conjecture at this point.

[TheKoyoteKid]

It might be too early to know, but is there any indication of whether existing purchases will be converted to these new versions, or if an additional purchase (hopefully at a discount) will be required?

[Gwaihir Scout]

The combination of shuffling and removal of material means they (probably) can't simply convert the old modules to the new ones, and the new heritage and changes that go beyond simple errata are significant enough that I doubt I'll be able to ignore them, either. It's a headache, all right. Hopefully the team will come up with a good solution.

[Neovirtus]

As someone who has recently dropped several hundred dollars in PDF's from Paizo and modules from FG to run PF2E and Starfinder, I'm definitely feeling a little bit of buyer's remorse. I know that my purchases are still good, and the new books won't invalidate the old, but it stings a bit to know that I'm probably going to want to turn around rebuy many of the core books in a year or so. My only hope is that the changes will also be published as Errata that FG can incorporate into the existing modules, but I know that is unlikely. Not exactly mad, just... Bummed because I don't feel as good about my purchases as I did at first.

[biomage]

I just dropped $200 on 2E on FG.

I’ll stick with 2E.

[Neovirtus]

It's still 2E just a big Errata and reorganization of content. Unclear what that means for FG modules.

[Surge]

I think with these changes including data from the Gamesmastery guide that it pretty much means we won't be converting the "old" Gamesmastery guide. All subject to exactly what content is in which product and what coding in the ruleset is required, so that's purely conjecture at this point.

So those of us who have bought the original core books will be stuck with a mix of the originals plus the updated GM Core, which may result in either missing or duplicated material - depending on Paizo's reorganisation of said data / information across the new four core books? This has a bitter taste to be frank.

[Trenloe]

So those of us who have bought the original core books will be stuck with a mix of the originals plus the updated GM Core, which may result in either missing or duplicated material - depending on Paizo's reorganisation of said data / information across the new four core books? This has a bitter taste to be frank.
I think you have to be realistic about how computer systems process data - if Paizo decide to release the remastered "stuff" as new products without an errata to the currently released products then yes, if you open the current Core Rules and the Player Core Remastered then, of course, you'll get duplicates - because the system will show all data records that are available to you. The PF2 ruleset will help with this (as it easily shows the source of each record) as will the recent Core Rules update to allow filtering of the grouped lists (e.g. weapons) to just show records from a single source.

Conversely, if you only have one source open, then (unless Paizo provide some errata in the case of the current Core Rules) you'll be missing data from the other product - e.g. if you just open the Player Core remastered you won't see "stuff" that was in the Core Rules but has been removed.

In the end, we won't be removing anything that you have now. You can make a decision on whether you wish to keep playing as you are, or whether you want to move wholly to using the remastered products - in which case we'll get more information later as to what product areas get replaced/updated in remastered and then you don't open the original products that remastered supersedes. If you want to pick and choose what to use, then you will end up with duplicates - but can use the built in FG filtering as mentioned above.

Depending on how it all pulls together, we may look at adding a flag to show/hide a specific data record so that the GM can decide on which data record is shown to the players. We'll need to investigate the full impact of this, but I think it will be a nice piece of functionality in general. The PF2 rarity does a good job of providing a blanket guideline as to what players can freely use and what they should ask the GM about, but an additional flag allowing a GM to restrict on a per campaign basis would be useful. But this would require a change to the current FG philosophy of read-only rulebooks (not adventures) and so I'd need to discuss that with Smiteworks directly, if that's a direction we want to take.

[biomage]

It's still 2E just a big Errata and reorganization of content. Unclear what that means for FG modules.

The whole idea of backward compatibility if you adjust a few rules applies to most editions of games.

I won’t be able to use both 2E and 2.5E products in my Fantasy Grounds campaigns. That’s enough of a difference for me.

[Trenloe]

I won’t be able to use both 2E and 2.5E products in my Fantasy Grounds campaigns. That’s enough of a difference for me.
There'll be a crossover for some products - existing Adventures and many Lost Omens guides will still be valid in PF2 Remastered. I'm sure there'll be little things to change - there'll more then likely be a conversions document produced to give guidelines.

[Neovirtus]

I won’t be able to use both 2E and 2.5E products in my Fantasy Grounds campaigns. That’s enough of a difference for me.

I don't think this is true.

"Are my existing Pathfinder Second Edition books now obsolete?

No. With the exception of a few minor variations in terminology and a slightly different mix of monsters, spells, and magic items, the rules remain largely unchanged. A pre-Remaster stat block, spell, monster, or adventure should work with the remastered rules without any problems."

[ThirdSign]

Important to note that the official name of these books isn't "Remastered".

In fact, there's no mention its a revision in the titles at all. Down in the discussions on the blog post, someone mentions this is deliberate, since it's not a new version of pathfinder, they're just printing new versions of the core books.

[Trenloe]

Important to note that the official name of these books isn't "Remastered".

In fact, there's no mention its a revision in the titles at all. Down in the discussions on the blog post, someone mentions this is deliberate, since it's not a new version of pathfinder, they're just printing new versions of the core books.
I appreciate that the books don't have "remastered" in the titles. But the main Paizo blog and Twitch streams that I've seen refer to it as the "Remaster Project", hence why I've been referring to this new PF2 "thing" as remastered - as "Player Core" (the name of the new thing) and "Core Rules" (the old thing name) aren't really different enough for the uninitiated reading posts.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siae?Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Remaster-Project

[danman71]

I think with these changes including data from the Gamesmastery guide that it pretty much means we won't be converting the "old" Gamesmastery guide. All subject to exactly what content is in which product and what coding in the ruleset is required, so that's purely conjecture at this point.

I was REALLY hoping we got this with all the Options before the new version comes out (with stripped down options).

[Trenloe]

I was REALLY hoping we got this with all the Options before the new version comes out (with stripped down options).
Sorry. Being realistic that's not going to happen from an official product release standpoint. A community developer is welcome to take on any OGL aspects of it if they wish. What is it that you *really* want from the Gamemastery guide?

[Xargun]

Paizo is doing this to be completely away from the OGL and publish everything of theirs under the new ORC licensing. So the name of a few things will change and a couple things will be dropped as they are probably OGL reliant. but overall 2.0 and 2.5 will be mostly identical.

Xargun

[Moon Wizard]

Personally, I'm hoping it will be along the lines that @Xargun is thinking; but we won't know for sure until we get the updated materials. We're working with @Trenloe to figure out what the best path will be; but we're all going to wait until the updated materials are released so we can truly understand the level of change and what that means for the product line.

Regards,
JPG

[Milke]

I am SO excited about this whole thing.
I watched the Twitch video. And I read the blog about it.
Jason stressed that this is not a new edition (after less than 4 years). It is a living game, and they're taking a pit stop to clean up things due to player feedback, include errata, and yes, completely divorce from the OGL.
I'm stoked about splitting the books up into player and GM for the first time since 2009. With magic items going back into the GM book where they belong.
This is a smooth move on Paizo's part. It might be a little bumpy while they transition over to ORC from OGL. But I, for one, couldn't be more jazzed about it.

[danman71]

Sorry. Being realistic that's not going to happen from an official product release standpoint. A community developer is welcome to take on any OGL aspects of it if they wish. What is it that you *really* want from the Gamemastery guide?

Mostly the Chapter 4 Variant Rules.

[biomage]

There'll be a crossover for some products - existing Adventures and many Lost Omens guides will still be valid in PF2 Remastered. I'm sure there'll be little things to change - there'll more then likely be a conversions document produced to give guidelines.

I’m just hoping it will be as simple as starting a campaign and choosing to use the 2E ruleset, and not between the 2E or 2.5E ruleset.

[MaxAstro]

Sorry. Being realistic that's not going to happen from an official product release standpoint. A community developer is welcome to take on any OGL aspects of it if they wish. What is it that you *really* want from the Gamemastery guide?

The biggest request from me would be the "ability boosts each level" rules. Doing it manually currently is pretty janky, and my players frequently forget to apply it since the tracker doesn't remind them.

If I could wish for anything from GMG it would be that. But if I could wish for two things, the other would be some kind of implementation of Automatic Bonus Progression. Even if it was just for weapons and armor, since I know skills would be messy to implement. Heck, even if it was just for weapons. Several of my players like to constantly grab new weapons, and having to keep remembering to add the ABP bonuses is a pain. Something that just automatically set the item bonus and added the extra damage dice when a weapon is added to the character would be amazing.

[Montis]

So the way I see this shaking out is that while the new books are released, the old books are still updated, or rather: will receive errata so that they contain the same rules as the new Core books. Which is to say: apart from the new spells, items and other content, the rules should end up exactly the same and you don't necessarily need to buy the new Core line of books. At least that's what I think.

[Trenloe]

So the way I see this shaking out is that while the new books are released, the old books are still updated, or rather: will receive errata so that they contain the same rules as the new Core books. Which is to say: apart from the new spells, items and other content, the rules should end up exactly the same and you don't necessarily need to buy the new Core line of books. At least that's what I think.
The remastered rules will be available through the Archives of Nethys website.

The first Paizo blog (https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siae?Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Remaster-Project) about this has an FAQ where it states: "We will not be updating PDFs of legacy products with the updated rules."

I haven't read/heard that Paizo plan to update the existing released material to match the remastered material. In the first Twitch they (Jason Bulmahn and Logan Bonner) said that the current (4th printing) of the Core Rules won't be reprinted, and that all they really could see was an overview document of the change - they didn't think they'd release a "conversion guide". Obviously plans can change, and the community can put their version of conversion/errata together. But, from what I've read/heard, I don't expect to see the PF2 legacy products being updated/errata'd to bring the rules from those products in line with the remastered project rules. Like I say, all of this could change - especially with feedback from the community, but I'd imagine that if you want to use the remastered project rules you'll have to use data from the Archives of Nethys or from the new products.

[Montis]

The first Paizo blog (https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siae?Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Remaster-Project) about this has an FAQ where it states: "We will not be updating PDFs of legacy products with the updated rules."
So far, most of the errata for the books have coincided with new print runs which also made updates to the PDFs. However there have been a small amount of errata that did not go hand in hand with that. My post above was me speculating that there will be errata for the old books but I meant that they would just be online on a website, without Paizo actually updating the PDFs (and definitely not the books).

So that is my hypothesis. Just a list of errata for the previous books released alongside with the new Core books, but no updates to the PDFs.

[Trenloe]

So far, most of the errata for the books have coincided with new print runs which also made updates to the PDFs. However there have been a small amount of errata that did not go hand in hand with that. My post above was me speculating that there will be errata for the old books but I meant that they would just be online on a website, without Paizo actually updating the PDFs (and definitely not the books).

So that is my hypothesis. Just a list of errata for the previous books released alongside with the new Core books, but no updates to the PDFs.
Your main statement from previously that I don't think will happen is "...the rules should end up exactly the same..." From what I've been hearing I highly doubt this. I hope they do end up the same (selfishly, from a ruleset update standpoint) but I don't think that's going to happen.

Paizo have already started bandying around the term "legacy" and I think the legacy stuff will remain legacy - for those who don't want to move to the remastered project material, to differentiate between the two branches and also to reduce the update load on Paizo going forward.

[biomage]

Paizo, like WOTC, are wanting to release a new edition without calling it a new edition.

I don’t mind a new edition.

I don’t like being told everything will be backwards compatible when, from what I have seen, it clearly won’t.

[Gwaihir Scout]

Updates from PaizoCon: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q_NyA75fUx86Aw1uk1AzSb78gfg2UfVydRg2yt5prpw/edit

[Montis]

Any ideas how to implement spirit damage before it's officially in the system; or rather which damage type to use for it? Hm. Force could work I guess.

[biomage]

Now that PaizoCon is over and a lot of information has been revealed 2ER, does anyone have any idea how this will be handled in Fantasy Grounds?

I know a lot of people are adamant about Remastered not being another edition. However, it seems like the changes are significant enough that it will be another ruleset.

I don’t mind having to purchase another ruleset to use the Remastered rules. However, I want to be able to use all of the content I’ve already purchased with a Remastered ruleset.

[Trenloe]

Now that PaizoCon is over and a lot of information has been revealed 2ER, does anyone have any idea how this will be handled in Fantasy Grounds?

I know a lot of people are adamant about Remastered not being another edition. However, it seems like the changes are significant enough that it will be another ruleset.

I don’t mind having to purchase another ruleset to use the Remastered rules. However, I want to be able to use all of the content I’ve already purchased with a Remastered ruleset.
We haven't decided on exactly how it will be handled, but there will be something that indicates your campaign is a Remastered campaign. Just like the pen-and-paper Remastered rules allow you to use existing content, anything we do in Fantasy Grounds will also allow you to use existing content in a Remastered campaign.

[Morfedel]

My question is, am i going to have to spend full price to get remastered? Normally I would understand if I did, but I've JUST been starting to pivot to Pathfinder 2e, was about to make the purchases, bought the beginner's box, but realizing that if i buy the core rules now I may have to repurchase all over again is a bit of a big pill to swallow. Knowing that, I may switch to Foundry until Remastered comes out, so I am not spending so much money.

If I knew there was going to be a less expensive upgrade with remastered, I'd be a little more comfortable with buying now, and I'm willing to spend more money with FGU vs Foundry.

But as stated, no one knows yet, so, while I DO like FGU better, I simply dont want to spend money on something I would be for lack of a better term repurchasing again in a few months, so unless information comes out otherwise, I will probably go with this less expensive Foundry until Remastered is in the FGU store.

[Morfedel]

on the other hand, side note, I'm almost shocked at how many times I have to defend myself every time I mention I like Fantasy Grounds over Foundry. I almost get dogpiled on at the Pathfinder 2e discord every time; no one calls me names or anything, but they attack my reasoning at every stage.

Honestly, playing PF2e in FGU is quite a bit more expensive than on Foundry, the entire rules set with all the SRD stuff is basically free or dirt cheap; I ran the costs to get the stuff I basically got for free on Foundry, and it costs something like $260.

Its a bit of a sticker shock in comparison. But I still like Fantasy Grounds better. But by looking at the money I would need to spend on this, combined with the upcoming remastered I need to take into account, and the fact that the dungeon dudes decided not to make a VTT of their products due to there being a pricing issue to work with fantasy grounds as well, does kind of concern me a bit.

It makes me wonder if Smiteworks is somehow pricing themselves out of the market, but I don't know enough of the subject to make an informed decision.

[ThirdSign]

My question is, am i going to have to spend full price to get remastered? Normally I would understand if I did, but I've JUST been starting to pivot to Pathfinder 2e, was about to make the purchases, bought the beginner's box, but realizing that if i buy the core rules now I may have to repurchase all over again is a bit of a big pill to swallow. Knowing that, I may switch to Foundry until Remastered comes out, so I am not spending so much money.

If I knew there was going to be a less expensive upgrade with remastered, I'd be a little more comfortable with buying now, and I'm willing to spend more money with FGU vs Foundry.

But as stated, no one knows yet, so, while I DO like FGU better, I simply dont want to spend money on something I would be for lack of a better term repurchasing again in a few months, so unless information comes out otherwise, I will probably go with this less expensive Foundry until Remastered is in the FGU store.

You don't have to buy the new books. They're being written to remove themselves from OGL. Just use the books you own.

[Montis]

You don't have to buy the new books. They're being written to remove themselves from OGL. Just use the books you own.

I'm not sure this is 100% true. There will be quite a bit of new and updated content I believe.

[ThirdSign]

Sure but that's the same as any other new release. You don't need to buy all the new books as soon as they come out.

If you need anything out of the remastered books, then pick them up, but they've said enough times that all the old books will still work that I believe them.

[Trenloe]

... and the fact that the dungeon dudes decided not to make a VTT of their products due to there being a pricing issue to work with fantasy grounds as well, does kind of concern me a bit.
I think there's been some wires crossed somewhere - when you first mentioned this, Moon Wizard replied here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?76222-Fantasy-Grounds-and-Dungeons-of-Drakkenheim&p=672476&viewfull=1#post672476

Publishers set the cost that their products will sell for on Fantasy Grounds. Sure, SmiteWorks will take a cut of that, as will the person who does the conversions - commission as a percentage of sales (which is only fair). But as Moon Wizard pointed out, the numbers you quoted don't appear correct, and there are different ways of releasing on Fantasy Grounds that can drastically change the commission model.


It makes me wonder if Smiteworks is somehow pricing themselves out of the market, but I don't know enough of the subject to make an informed decision.
As mentioned, publishers set the price of their products on Fantasy Grounds.

Also keep in mind that in the case of Paizo PF2 adventures on Foundry, they cost more than on Fantasy Grounds - $26.99 for the most recent AP part on Fantasy Grounds, vs. $34.99 on Foundry - a difference of $8; for the slightly older APs (Outlaws of Alkenstar, for example) the difference between each part of the AP on Fantasy Grounds and Foundry is $10. I know it's not $260, but if you play a lot the difference will begin to level out over time and it's an example where SmiteWorks is not pricing themselves out of the market.

Ultimately, if you want official Paizo products with all of the artwork and full product text, then the cost is set by Paizo.

[Morfedel]

I think there's been some wires crossed somewhere - when you first mentioned this, Moon Wizard replied here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?76222-Fantasy-Grounds-and-Dungeons-of-Drakkenheim&p=672476&viewfull=1#post672476

Publishers set the cost that their products will sell for on Fantasy Grounds. Sure, SmiteWorks will take a cut of that, as will the person who does the conversions - commission as a percentage of sales (which is only fair). But as Moon Wizard pointed out, the numbers you quoted don't appear correct, and there are different ways of releasing on Fantasy Grounds that can drastically change the commission model.


As mentioned, publishers set the price of their products on Fantasy Grounds.

Also keep in mind that in the case of Paizo PF2 adventures on Foundry, they cost more than on Fantasy Grounds - $26.99 for the most recent AP part on Fantasy Grounds, vs. $34.99 on Foundry - a difference of $8; for the slightly older APs (Outlaws of Alkenstar, for example) the difference between each part of the AP on Fantasy Grounds and Foundry is $10. I know it's not $260, but if you play a lot the difference will begin to level out over time and it's an example where SmiteWorks is not pricing themselves out of the market.

Ultimately, if you want official Paizo products with all of the artwork and full product text, then the cost is set by Paizo.

Frankly, I almost want talking points here. I wasnt setting to argue foundry vs fantasy grounds and, overall, having used both, I definitely prefer fantasy grounds, but every time I've mentioned my preference on pathfinder's discord I get dogpiled on how i'm "wrong," and its kind of exhausting. I'm not trying to start a flame war, just want to be able to differentiate the two and why someone would want to choose the one vs the other.

[Morfedel]

I think there's been some wires crossed somewhere - when you first mentioned this, Moon Wizard replied here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?76222-Fantasy-Grounds-and-Dungeons-of-Drakkenheim&p=672476&viewfull=1#post672476

Publishers set the cost that their products will sell for on Fantasy Grounds. Sure, SmiteWorks will take a cut of that, as will the person who does the conversions - commission as a percentage of sales (which is only fair). But as Moon Wizard pointed out, the numbers you quoted don't appear correct, and there are different ways of releasing on Fantasy Grounds that can drastically change the commission model.


As mentioned, publishers set the price of their products on Fantasy Grounds.

Also keep in mind that in the case of Paizo PF2 adventures on Foundry, they cost more than on Fantasy Grounds - $26.99 for the most recent AP part on Fantasy Grounds, vs. $34.99 on Foundry - a difference of $8; for the slightly older APs (Outlaws of Alkenstar, for example) the difference between each part of the AP on Fantasy Grounds and Foundry is $10. I know it's not $260, but if you play a lot the difference will begin to level out over time and it's an example where SmiteWorks is not pricing themselves out of the market.

Ultimately, if you want official Paizo products with all of the artwork and full product text, then the cost is set by Paizo.

So, hey, sorry if I came off a bit touchy. I spent a couple hours having people on the pathfinder discord dogpiling me about how wrong I was about Fantasy Grounds being better.

Well, precisely what happened was I mentioned that FGU had more official products and everyone and their dogs jumped and told me that wasn't true. I tried showing them the shops, what was in them, etc, but they kept telling me I was wrong, and it was, as I said, a dogpile. It left me feeling rather run over.

As it is, really, I'm more concerned about whether or not I'm going to have to pay full price for remastered, because I have only bought the beginners box, I DO plan on buying remastered, and as such, if it will be a full purchase I kinda dont want to buy the standard core stuff right now. On the other hand, if there was a cheaper upgrade version, I'd feel more comfortable buying the core stuff now.

And since no one can really know the plans just yet, its hard to make that call.

[ThirdSign]

I hopped into the discord just to see what you're talking about and fair. You definitely got dogpiled just for asking a question.

That said, people don't like the FGU Ultimate price tag, and never try it at all as a result. I would never be able to convince my group to buy fantasy grounds standard, but I was willing to pick up an ultimate license to alleviate that problem for them.

I would confidently say I'm in the minority, especially when there's a free (or cheaper) option just over yonder.

[Trenloe]

So, hey, sorry if I came off a bit touchy. I spent a couple hours having people on the pathfinder discord dogpiling me about how wrong I was about Fantasy Grounds being better.
No worries at all! :)


Well, precisely what happened was I mentioned that FGU had more official products and everyone and their dogs jumped and told me that wasn't true. I tried showing them the shops, what was in them, etc, but they kept telling me I was wrong, and it was, as I said, a dogpile. It left me feeling rather run over.
I've tried to engage in facts in the past and this is a great example - even though you can show people that there are over 100 official Pathfinder Paizo conversions on Fantasy Grounds, they just wouldn't see it. Whereas there's currently 25 official Paizo products on Foundry. If people can't see that there's many, many more official conversions on Fantasy Grounds - even after being shown proof, then there's no point in trying to educate them. Unfortunately, I gave up trying a long time ago as it's too exhausting.


As it is, really, I'm more concerned about whether or not I'm going to have to pay full price for remastered, because I have only bought the beginners box, I DO plan on buying remastered, and as such, if it will be a full purchase I kinda dont want to buy the standard core stuff right now. On the other hand, if there was a cheaper upgrade version, I'd feel more comfortable buying the core stuff now.

And since no one can really know the plans just yet, its hard to make that call.
Yeah, we simply don't know right if there'll be some upgrade path to help reduce the cost of picking up Remastered products.

[Morfedel]

"Yeah, we simply don't know right if there'll be some upgrade path to help reduce the cost of picking up Remastered products."

And thats the one thing causing me to hold back. I dont want to drop a ton of money just to spend a similar amount. It's like, one of my local game stores actually got a pair of copies of the Pathfinder 2e Core rulebook, which I'd been trying to get. But now that they have it, I'm very hesitant to get it, knowing remastered is coming out, as I'd essentially be repurchasing the materials with the revised rules but buying everything all over again basically.

With FGU being a digital product, an update as opposed to a full new rules set MIGHT be possible, depending on how they do it, but since we cant know for sure, I have to consider carefully.

[MaxAstro]

I will say, with what we have seen of Remastered so far, I suspect that it will be relatively easy to edit existing rules to conform manually. In some cases trivially so - if you want to run a Remastered Rogue, it sounds like all you have to do is add Martial Weapon Proficiency.

So whatever the pricing ends up being, I don't imagine it would be much work to case-by-case edit things as they come up if you want to hold off on buying the Remastered books, especially since the rules will be on AoN. Perhaps with the exception of the Bestiary, but the Bestiary sounds like it's going to have a lot of brand new monsters so will probably be worth buying anyway.

[Milke]

The thing about the Ultimate's price tag is only the GM needs it. Everyone else only needs the trial version. So the group could all pitch 1/5 of the cost. And the PDF price comes out of future product prices.
So I always find it to be not bad at all.

[Neovirtus]

Looks like the Foundry PF2E team is planning to implement remaster stuff as errata. Granted I know nothing about how Foundry works and can imagine that the technical differences between the two programs could necessitate different approaches... but I was wondering if there had been any guidance from Paizo of late on these things?

To be clear, not comparing the VTT's in any way here, just noticing that they have made a decision about implementation and wondering if this indicates new directives from Paizo to all partners or just their own internal decision making. I haven't asked them because I don't personally care about the Foundry ruleset, just curious if there's any news on the FG front.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/156kogm/pf2e_on_foundry_v520_released_final_preremaster/

[Trenloe]

Looks like the Foundry PF2E team is planning to implement remaster stuff as errata. Granted I know nothing about how Foundry works and can imagine that the technical differences between the two programs could necessitate different approaches... but I was wondering if there had been any guidance from Paizo of late on these things?

To be clear, not comparing the VTT's in any way here, just noticing that they have made a decision about implementation and wondering if this indicates new directives from Paizo to all partners or just their own internal decision making. I haven't asked them because I don't personally care about the Foundry ruleset, just curious if there's any news on the FG front.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/156kogm/pf2e_on_foundry_v520_released_final_preremaster/
We're going to confirm with Paizo ourselves, but my take on it is that FG users will have the option to play with the legacy rules or with the Remastered rules - which is what the initial announcement FAQ from Paizo stated. We're going to confirm the finer points with Paizo - e.g. if the campaign is set to legacy, would it even be able to open the Remastered books? Of course, the Universal Modules extension will always allow you to open any module, but we're just thinking of the standard setup. With the FG layered ruleset architecture, it's relatively straightforward to provide two rulesets that are very similar, but with slight differences - the 3.5E/PFRPG ruleset is setup in exactly this way.

[Neovirtus]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the update on your proposed approach. I'll of course be curious to see how new and old rulebooks interact with the different rulesets. It would be nice if we could load the Remastered ruleset, then simply "errata" the creature names, spell names, etc, (manually if necessary) rather than buying the new books. But I understand that's a bit in the weeds. Though Rage of Elements is coming out soon and it uses the Remastered ruleset I guess?

[Trenloe]

It would be nice if we could load the Remastered ruleset, then simply "errata" the creature names, spell names, etc, (manually if necessary) rather than buying the new books.
Unless Paizo have changed their plans, this is completely what you should be able to do. Although you'd need to make a copy of the original record and make the changes there (unless we break with convention and make the base record editable in a campaign). We'll probably look at some of the key differences and see if we can automate them - the main one being converting alignment traits.


Though Rage of Elements is coming out soon and it uses the Remastered ruleset I guess?
Pretty much, it has a sidebar that gives details of how to use it with Core Rules, Bestiary, etc..

[darrenan]

Any updated comments now that they've released the Remaster Core Preview? Looks like a fair amount of small changes will be needed to the ruleset: lifting the 3 focus cap, changing the layout of spells, etc.

[myyra]

Any updated comments now that they've released the Remaster Core Preview? Looks like a fair amount of small changes will be needed to the ruleset: lifting the 3 focus cap, changing the layout of spells, etc.

Someone from Paizo said that the 3 focus point cap is not changing, even though it might seem like that based on the preview. A more significant change about focus spells is, that you can refocus multiple times in a row to regain more than 1 focus point if your focus pool is larger.

[MaxAstro]

Someone from Paizo said that the 3 focus point cap is not changing, even though it might seem like that based on the preview. A more significant change about focus spells is, that you can refocus multiple times in a row to regain more than 1 focus point if your focus pool is larger.

Also even if it was, I'm pretty sure there's no focus point cap hardcoded into the rules. FG will let you give a character more than 3 focus points if you want.

[ProfDogg]

So Demiplane and Foundry are reporting that if you own the previous corebooks, you get the new core options for free (so essentially as an errata as opposed to a new ruleset or such). There might be some nuances I didn't pick up on though. Any word yet on how FG will handle it yet?

[Trenloe]

So Demiplane and Foundry are reporting that if you own the previous corebooks, you get the new core options for free (so essentially as an errata as opposed to a new ruleset or such). There might be some nuances I didn't pick up on though. Any word yet on how FG will handle it yet?
The Fantasy Grounds PFRPG2 ruleset will be upgraded for free, or you can keep playing "legacy" (my term, not Paizo's) - see previous posts in this thread for details of that. Exactly what happens to the Paizo official products has yet to be nailed down.

Foundry don't have the Core Rules, or any of the other rulebooks for that matter, as purchasable official Paizo content - it's all OGL content. Assuming the Foundry "free" upgrade is providing ORC content, nothing's really changed as far as Foundry base Paizo content is concerned - they're providing a free upgrade to a free product.

Demiplane is a different case and worth investigating.

As far as we know, Paizo aren't offering any free upgrades for their new Core products in PDF or print form, and the current Paizo/FG license agreement is tied to those products. We've reached out to Paizo for clarification around a few things involving the Remaster products and to get their feedback on the process. It's early days yet - the Player Core and GM Core books aren't out until mid-November.

[ProfDogg]

Oh, I'm sure there will be more changes coming down the pike before November... It seems the Paizo strategy keep shifting with the winds... Not that I blame them, they're just responding to market pressure... Thank you much...

[Trenloe]

Some updated information available in this thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?78796-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Remaster-project