How Fantasy Grounds Unity can be the top VTT even with WotC's new 3DVTT and DnDBeyond

[MentalChillness]

Firstly, I love FGU and I've spent thousands over the years supporting FG, WotC, but especially 3rd part content. I think this new theater of the mind feature is fine, but if we really want to stay ahead of the competition in the VTT market, we need to modernize the UI and make FG available on mobile and tablets. I think if players could access their pc sheets and campaign information without logging into a FG server, it would benefit our VTT greatly. If people could play on FG from mobile and tablets, that would allow more access to a younger audience. I think that Rob2e and Grim Press' spell and skill automation extensions should come with FGU by default. I think the company needs to compete with DnD Beyond instead of it's 3d VTT, if we really want to keep FG one of the top VTTs out there. I use Obsidian Portal for campaign management. I could use FG, but it's inconvenient for players to always have to login to the server just to edit their character sheets, add lore, read lore, or read through the modules in the FGU app. The FGU app should open the modules in a pdf format with the ability to link, copy and paste information at ease. I think FG needs a mobile/tablet/online version of the campaign on their FG server that they can access and edit easily without having to login to the actual FGU server game. FG should come with a campaign manager and character sheet modifier that can be accessed outside of the server and through mobile/tablets. Please look into upgrading the UI and streamlining the way that FGU works before you try to add a 2.5D feature that isn't going to compete with WotC's 3d VTT. I want to see Smiteworks and FG succeed, and I think that since it's the oldest VTT, it will struggle to find the right changes, but I think it's a high risk, high reward investment to keep FGU relevant after the WotC 3D VTT connected to DnD Beyond in 2024. I really think FG could use some form of their own version of DnD Beyond to really make it look new, fresh, and welcoming to new players. We could also add animated maps pieces and tokens to compete with 3D without having to design a whole 3d engine. Please consider these options as the VTT landscape will change in the next couple years and I just want the best for my favorite VTT.

[Zacchaeus]

Suggestions go in the wish list (you'll probably find all of what you want in there already); link in my signature.

A way to at least read owned content from the website has been on the cards for some time; however licensing issues are holding that up. I doubt FGU will ever actually be playable on a phone or tablet; the screen is too small and lacks a mouse and keyboard.

If and when WotC ever produce a working VTT it'll only play WotC material; FGU supports a multitude of RPGs.

[MentalChillness]

Thank you, I'll repost there. Unless someone can move it for me :)

[Zacchaeus]

Thank you, I'll repost there. Unless someone can move it for me :)

The wishlist isn't attached to the forums so posts can't be moved. As I said many of the things you want (and you have mentioned several things) are most likely already on the list. So have a look and vote for the ones that are closest to what you are suggesting. (Things like 3d maps, access without joined to the DM, 'modern ui', and others are all already on there.

[MentalChillness]

Thanks, already been voting and put out quite a few suggestions.

[ddavison]

Thanks for the feedback MentalChillness.

[EllivasKram]

Sometimes the gamification of the WOTC proposed future leaves me thinking. But I just want to sit around a table with my mates and so we can play more often a VTT is perfect.

A game experience with the UnReal 3D engine will be interesting but will it be a virtual table or Games master managed Baldur’s Gate with micro payments etc etc.

[MentalChillness]

Just double posted.

[MentalChillness]

Thanks for the feedback MentalChillness.

Thank you sir for providing me with a way to meet amazing people whom we create some hilarious and legendary memories together. Thank you especially for considering my thoughts and I do look forward to the future of FGU and the theater of the mind feature.

[indavis]

I doubt FGU will ever actually be playable on a phone or tablet; the screen is too small and lacks a mouse and keyboard.


Just my 2 cents on this. A phone or tablet could be used to display just the contents of a single popup, like the character sheet, or a table, or even just the chat window/die rolls. It doesn't have to be a full implementation. Plus, and don't take this wrong, but phones and tablets are very versatile in scrolling around using finger motions. Try thinking about using them as a supplement. It doesn't have to be a full blown copy of the software.

[Ryuson]

I’m thinking this would be feasible only on the player side? I can’t imagine a GMing a game on FG on a tablet.

[LordEntrails]

The devs are currently working on tablet version for viewing Reference Manual content. It's the first step.

And yes, phone and tablet versions are technically possible. But as with most things, it's a trade-off. There are only so many developer hours to go around, and SmiteWorks has to decide what is the most effective use for those developer hours. Also note that something like a phone version with a different UI (touch interface) would require a separate build stream (since Unity does not have a single set of libraries to accomplish this) and that would mean it would cost recurring developer hours for every future update, making future enhancements slower.

[SilentRuin]

I have enough real estate issues with my ultra wide monitor - trying to fit all this and run a game on a phone or tablet screen?

No chance. It would be a very painful experience almost however they attempted to do it with that limited real estate. Would probably only be viable for very specific "non playing the game or running the game" data review revision of sheets.

[MentalChillness]

Yes, it would be nice if my FGU had a dedicated server through the cloud that is always online and that players can log in to. Adding mobile support for character sheets and reading modules would be nice. I think people may be able to play from a tablet, but it would be difficult from a phone. I would like the server to always be online or for people to be able to access like a campaign manager/wiki of our campaign without having to login to the server itself. These are just some options that would make it more accessible and convenient for a lot of the newer players. FG is a wonderful tool which allows you to play many different games. Of course most people just want to play 5e, but adding a DnD Beyond like feature to our FG campaigns would be nice and helpful to GMs that don't want to or can't keep their server up 24/7. I could host a server dedicated server, but I'd rather have that option through the FGU cloud and pay FG for the server time/bandwidth to make it nice and simple.

[LordEntrails]

Yes, it would be nice if my FGU had a dedicated server through the cloud that is always online .... but I'd rather have that option through the FGU cloud and pay FG for the server time/bandwidth to make it nice and simple.
Make sure you vote for the ideas:
Idea Informer » Feedback 2.0 (https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=135371) and
Idea Informer » Feedback 2.0 (https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=136329)

[MentalChillness]

Make sure you vote for the ideas:
Idea Informer » Feedback 2.0 (https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=135371) and
Idea Informer » Feedback 2.0 (https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=136329)

Thank you sir will do!

[indavis]

I’m thinking this would be feasible only on the player side? I can’t imagine a GMing a game on FG on a tablet.

Yes, I am talking about players, not DM'ing from a phone or tablet.


I have enough real estate issues with my ultra wide monitor - trying to fit all this and run a game on a phone or tablet screen?

No chance. It would be a very painful experience almost however they attempted to do it with that limited real estate. Would probably only be viable for very specific "non playing the game or running the game" data review revision of sheets.

That wouldn't be the use case. It would be so that players could connect via an app, or their browser to a phone or tablet and have limited but useful windows available. Like for die rolls, maybe their character sheet, or tables. Think about this. Not everyone has a laptop. Let's say you do and bring it to a game day. People who have FGU only loaded on a pc either have to lug the pc or just go without. This way, they could just pull their phone out, and still connect to the DM and do things like die rolls when it's their turn, etc. I don't understand what seems to be a lot of opposition to this idea.

Also, I see the comments about separate compiling, etc. If you have code in the server that can spit out html 5 or even just plain html for simpler functionality, that would open up things tremendously.

[MentalChillness]

Yes, I am talking about players, not DM'ing from a phone or tablet.



That wouldn't be the use case. It would be so that players could connect via an app, or their browser to a phone or tablet and have limited but useful windows available. Like for die rolls, maybe their character sheet, or tables. Think about this. Not everyone has a laptop. Let's say you do and bring it to a game day. People who have FGU only loaded on a pc either have to lug the pc or just go without. This way, they could just pull their phone out, and still connect to the DM and do things like die rolls when it's their turn, etc. I don't understand what seems to be a lot of opposition to this idea.

Also, I see the comments about separate compiling, etc. If you have code in the server that can spit out html 5 or even just plain html for simpler functionality, that would open up things tremendously.

This is absolutely what I would like to have. My players always need access to my server at random times and I have to leave it up 24/7. One of them lives in China and we are all in different time zones. I'd also like a campaign manager/wiki feature that is connected to fantasy grounds so I don't have to manually move character sheets and campaign information to Obsidian Portal. Something they can access in or outside of the FG server.

[Sulimo]

Yes, I am talking about players, not DM'ing from a phone or tablet.


Also, I see the comments about separate compiling, etc. If you have code in the server that can spit out html 5 or even just plain html for simpler functionality, that would open up things tremendously.

You are basically talking about having FG be a web server, that would take things back to the FGC days to port forwarding, and all of the attendant issues with that. FG is not cloud based like Roll20 for instance. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that this sort of implementation will have to deal with these things to make it work. One of the biggest headaches for FGC was port forwarding. Since FG is not cloud based, it'll be more difficult to do this.

Smiteworks has talked about a reader app for viewing the various modules in a mobile app, but it's being held up by licensing, not SmiteWorks (at least that is the last info I heard).

Beyond a reader may be difficult in some cases. For instance, Apple forbids apps from modifying code without going through the App Store, this is what extensions do, so extensions would be right out for any Fantasy Grounds app for Apple devices. Google does as well, but their methodology for mobile apps is different, which has caused lots of issues in the past (nefarious developers submitting an app, then triggering a code change from outside the store), side-loading is also possible for Android as a work around (although Google appears to be cracking down on it).

Then there are the app store policies themselves, especially for Apple, I've previously outlined some of the challenges here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?63629-Fantasy-Grounds-on-Apple-Silicon-and-future-IOS-port-for-Ipad&p=556356&viewfull=1#post556356) and here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?14087-iPad-App&p=633849&viewfull=1#post633849).


This is absolutely what I would like to have. My players always need access to my server at random times and I have to leave it up 24/7. One of them lives in China and we are all in different time zones. I'd also like a campaign manager/wiki feature that is connected to fantasy grounds so I don't have to manually move character sheets and campaign information to Obsidian Portal. Something they can access in or outside of the FG server.


I have to be honest, I've been GMing for 30+ years, and never once have my players requested to have access to their characters outside of the sessions. If the players did not have access to the books, it was pretty useless anyway.

Before VTTs, my players usually asked me to hold on to their sheets so they would not lose them. Even now, my players have never made that kind of request. Maybe it's because I don't play D&D, but even then, back in the 80s and 90s we dabbled with AD&D, and no one ever asked to 'work' on their characters outside of a session.

So would someone care to explain why this is so important? Because I am not seeing the need.

[indavis]

Yes, I am basically mentioning using html connectivity to allow certain functionality. This is different than port forwarding. Sure there would be headaches, but that goes with any programming, especially once you start adding features. I am watching a lot of videos for playthrus of games that I would like to gm or play, and a ton of them have some of the players just connecting to the game for things like die rolls, and from what I can gather things like simple map viewing, etc. While I get that it kind of goes against the grain of getting new users to the software, and I own an unlimited license just for that reason (to get new people interested), there are also times that I can see an advantage where people could just pop up a browser for limited functionality connecting to a currently running campaign. This is all merely conversation and suggestions as I well understand the complexity. Adding in "html server" code, dealing with the myriad of browser compatibility issues, etc. But just think how innovative it would be if a gm could do something like click a button and generate a url for a player to just pop into their browser and be able to join in the die rolling, or the game chat. I play with a small group of people and while another in our team is fully with me on using the software and has an unlimited license as well, getting some of the others to install new software is a hard sell at the moment. Possibly having this limited functionality would be enough to push them to eventually go for it. Plus, like I said, sometimes you have things installed on a machine you can't just drag around.

[Jiminimonka]

So would someone care to explain why this is so important? Because I am not seeing the need.

It is not important.

Also I see the "installing software is an issue" thing again...

[HywelPhillips]

Even now, my players have never made that kind of request. Maybe it's because I don't play D&D, but even then, back in the 80s and 90s we dabbled with AD&D, and no one ever asked to 'work' on their characters outside of a session.

So would someone care to explain why this is so important? Because I am not seeing the need.

The use case for my players is to be able to generate characters, level up, choose spells and abilities. Specifically for relatively rules-heavy or option-heavy systems. For 5E, one of my two regular groups like using D&D Beyond in particular. They can read through all the various options for their characters and fiddle about with them, which is actually something I ought to put in as a request generally for the 5E ruleset on FGU - the ability to change your mind and undo level ups, selection of subclass, and so forth.

I do this myself as a player too. I will play around with the character options when I level up, dither between taking a level of fighter or a level of rogue, etc.. I'll generate a clone version of the character and level them up a few times and see how they look at level 7 with different subclassing options, that sort of thing. Sure, there ARE other tools out there more suitable for doing this than FGU. But right now its not really even an option because of the need to be running the game server 24/7 to achieve it.

[Sulimo]

I play Rolemaster, it practically defined rules heavy. The joke back in the day was it should be called Rulemaster, or Chartmaster depending on who you talked to.


From Rick Swan (former TSR game designer):


"With its tidal wave of numbers, formulas, and tables, the Rolemaster game always struck me as the kind of fantasy RPG that calculus professors play on their day off."

It's not as bad as that, however, it is pretty rules heavy.

[MentalChillness]

You are basically talking about having FG be a web server, that would take things back to the FGC days to port forwarding, and all of the attendant issues with that. FG is not cloud based like Roll20 for instance. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that this sort of implementation will have to deal with these things to make it work. One of the biggest headaches for FGC was port forwarding. Since FG is not cloud based, it'll be more difficult to do this.

Smiteworks has talked about a reader app for viewing the various modules in a mobile app, but it's being held up by licensing, not SmiteWorks (at least that is the last info I heard).

Beyond a reader may be difficult in some cases. For instance, Apple forbids apps from modifying code without going through the App Store, this is what extensions do, so extensions would be right out for any Fantasy Grounds app for Apple devices. Google does as well, but their methodology for mobile apps is different, which has caused lots of issues in the past (nefarious developers submitting an app, then triggering a code change from outside the store), side-loading is also possible for Android as a work around (although Google appears to be cracking down on it).

Then there are the app store policies themselves, especially for Apple, I've previously outlined some of the challenges here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?63629-Fantasy-Grounds-on-Apple-Silicon-and-future-IOS-port-for-Ipad&p=556356&viewfull=1#post556356) and here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?14087-iPad-App&p=633849&viewfull=1#post633849).




I have to be honest, I've been GMing for 30+ years, and never once have my players requested to have access to their characters outside of the sessions. If the players did not have access to the books, it was pretty useless anyway.

Before VTTs, my players usually asked me to hold on to their sheets so they would not lose them. Even now, my players have never made that kind of request. Maybe it's because I don't play D&D, but even then, back in the 80s and 90s we dabbled with AD&D, and no one ever asked to 'work' on their characters outside of a session.

So would someone care to explain why this is so important? Because I am not seeing the need.

Yeah I have two new players to DnD AND VTTs and one that lives in China so he can't even access the cloud so I had to setup the old style of port forwarding for them. The guy in China is new to FG VTT and wants to create his own custom Wild Surge table.

I just think a Campaign Manager which reflects the modules that I own and allow the player to access on the server and access their character sheets would be extremely convenient. It covers that DnD Beyond niche that FG doesn't quite fill right now.

I've even had one player share a google trove of most the pdfs that we use and setup Obsidian Portal for them. I just would think the next step for FG is if they can incorporate Mobile and campaign management with the cloud game servers.

[MentalChillness]

Yes, I am basically mentioning using html connectivity to allow certain functionality. This is different than port forwarding. Sure there would be headaches, but that goes with any programming, especially once you start adding features. I am watching a lot of videos for playthrus of games that I would like to gm or play, and a ton of them have some of the players just connecting to the game for things like die rolls, and from what I can gather things like simple map viewing, etc. While I get that it kind of goes against the grain of getting new users to the software, and I own an unlimited license just for that reason (to get new people interested), there are also times that I can see an advantage where people could just pop up a browser for limited functionality connecting to a currently running campaign. This is all merely conversation and suggestions as I well understand the complexity. Adding in "html server" code, dealing with the myriad of browser compatibility issues, etc. But just think how innovative it would be if a gm could do something like click a button and generate a url for a player to just pop into their browser and be able to join in the die rolling, or the game chat. I play with a small group of people and while another in our team is fully with me on using the software and has an unlimited license as well, getting some of the others to install new software is a hard sell at the moment. Possibly having this limited functionality would be enough to push them to eventually go for it. Plus, like I said, sometimes you have things installed on a machine you can't just drag around.

I upvote this.

[MentalChillness]

I play Rolemaster, it practically defined rules heavy. The joke back in the day was it should be called Rulemaster, or Chartmaster depending on who you talked to.


From Rick Swan (former TSR game designer):



It's not as bad as that, however, it is pretty rules heavy.

Yeah I just started playing in a Rolemaster game. I love it. Thinking about making a random tap table extension, but I have to get more familiar with the rules first.

[JohnD]

I don't know why I'm bothering but... some of the same old supposed justifications are being raised again. FG is a full software program, not an app or a website and it exists in a niche segment of what is still itself a niche market.

Not knowing how to install software. In 2023. And incapable of being walked through "click this URL, download and launch the installer, go with the default options." OK.

Not wanting to install software I can see, but then I wonder whether the person really wants to game in the first place.

This is right up there with the old "Double click? What's that?" and "Right click? What's that?" and "I couldn't install the software because I don't know where I put my computer."

Although to be fair, there are people who lack basic computer usage skills, but I wonder what these people are doing looking to play games online in that case.

To each their own opinion obviously, myself included.

[MentalChillness]

Proper post below.

[MentalChillness]

I don't know why I'm bothering but... some of the same old supposed justifications are being raised again. FG is a full software program, not an app or a website and it exists in a niche segment of what is still itself a niche market.

Not knowing how to install software. In 2023. And incapable of being walked through "click this URL, download and launch the installer, go with the default options." OK.

Not wanting to install software I can see, but then I wonder whether the person really wants to game in the first place.

This is right up there with the old "Double click? What's that?" and "Right click? What's that?" and "I couldn't install the software because I don't know where I put my computer."

Although to be fair, there are people who lack basic computer usage skills, but I wonder what these people are doing looking to play games online in that case.

To each their own opinion obviously, myself included.

Right, as you can attest. The FGU Academy has a monumental task of teaching people all the amazing features that FG can do. FG is my favorite because it has the best UI, isn't web-based so I can store data on my PC, has contracts and access to tons of different 3rd Party Creators and gaming systems, and allows for lots of customization and automation. I just want to see something simple that people can access from mobile/tablet within the campaign without the server running and some Obsidian Portal like wiki attached to FG itself so I don't have to manually edit everything from FG to OP. I know I'm asking a lot, for FG to basically compete with DnD Beyond and also offer Campaign manager features that can be accessed off the server. But they're just suggestions which I think would improve FG in this new mobile market.

[Jiminimonka]

It's not as bad as that, however, it is pretty rules heavy.

Sounds like something a calculus professor would say ;)

[indavis]

I don't know why I'm bothering but... some of the same old supposed justifications are being raised again. FG is a full software program, not an app or a website and it exists in a niche segment of what is still itself a niche market.

Not knowing how to install software. In 2023. And incapable of being walked through "click this URL, download and launch the installer, go with the default options." OK.

Not wanting to install software I can see, but then I wonder whether the person really wants to game in the first place.

This is right up there with the old "Double click? What's that?" and "Right click? What's that?" and "I couldn't install the software because I don't know where I put my computer."

Although to be fair, there are people who lack basic computer usage skills, but I wonder what these people are doing looking to play games online in that case.

To each their own opinion obviously, myself included.

With all due respect I didn't say anything about people not being able to install software. They aren't committing to install it, which is their own choice. Has nothing to do with skill levels, so no need to make people sound like dufuses just because they don't want to put software on their pc. You are also ignoring my point about being able to connect to a game using certain functionality that doesn't need a full complement of software. I have a feeling this conversation is going nowhere... I am frankly a little shocked to see people putting down a basic idea that would add functionality.

[Jiminimonka]

With all due respect I didn't say anything about people not being able to install software. They aren't committing to install it, which is their own choice. Has nothing to do with skill levels, so no need to make people sound like dufuses just because they don't want to put software on their pc. You are also ignoring my point about being able to connect to a game using certain functionality that doesn't need a full complement of software. I have a feeling this conversation is going nowhere... I am frankly a little shocked to see people putting down a basic idea that would add functionality.

You were not quoted.

[Trenloe]

I am frankly a little shocked to see people putting down a basic idea that would add functionality.
I think the main thing that FG users are concerned about is the dev time sync that major changes to the architecture would create. Also some people will always give feedback that can be perceived as negative if there are requests for features that they don't want/need. FG has a very limited number of developers, what might seem simple from the outside is very often a major task - FG has been around for nearly 20 years and has upwards of 2,000 official DLC products (not to mention community created DLC), so it can be difficult to introduce changes in architecture/functionality and maintain backwards compatibility - for example, moving to Unity took a number of years, just to maintain similar functionality and backwards compatibility with FG Classic.

When anyone posts about new functionality requests, things they see as major improvements, other FG users aren't always going to agree with you - for a wide variety of reasons. We all use FG in different ways and so have different requirements. Making suggestions is great, but also don't be surprised when people don't agree with you - an FG user isn't going to want to see hundreds of FG dev hours spent on something they aren't interested in. As already mentioned, FG has a limited number of developers - all of whom are already dedicated to projects in Smiteworks' current plans/vision, so dev hours are very valuable and users are always going to want to see those hours spent on things they want or see as important.

Keep making suggestions, keep adding to/voting on entries in the FG wishlist and have some discussions, engaging the users you want to discuss with. You're not going to change the minds of everyone, so be selective in how you engage and don't be put off by people who don't agree with you.

[damned]

All of these suggestions are great and would make things better.

Most of them ignore the current architecture. The Fantasy Grounds software is the server. It is where the data lives. For any interaction with the data the server needs to be on and reachable.

For the tablet or mobile version. It isnt trivial. As many mention they want to have 27 things open most of the time so how would they see these things on a mobile device with small screen? If enough information cant be displayed in a useful manner on a small screen then its not worth investigating further. If enough info can be displayed then the considerations become licensing and technical.

[MentalChillness]

Tonight I had a new player to DnD and FG that couldn't connect to my server because I had to restart my computer while he was still logged into my server. The server thought he was already logged in and wouldn't allow him in again. Instead of wasting more time, holding the other 6 players back, we played and I streamed the game through discord so he could play while watching my screen. He told me that regardless of the problem of getting into the app, the fact that he could watch my discord stream made him feel like he was apart of the game. I really do think that mobile/tablet access would really draw newer players into a sometimes confusing VTT.

[Jiminimonka]

Tonight I had a new player to DnD and FG that couldn't connect to my server because I had to restart my computer while he was still logged into my server. The server thought he was already logged in and wouldn't allow him in again. Instead of wasting more time, holding the other 6 players back, we played and I streamed the game through discord so he could play while watching my screen. He told me that regardless of the problem of getting into the app, the fact that he could watch my discord stream made him feel like he was apart of the game. I really do think that mobile/tablet access would really draw newer players into a sometimes confusing VTT.

After a couple of minutes he would be registered as logged out, and then able to log back in.

[Jiminimonka]

All of these suggestions are great and would make things better.

Most of them ignore the current architecture. The Fantasy Grounds software is the server. It is where the data lives. For any interaction with the data the server needs to be on and reachable.

For the tablet or mobile version. It isnt trivial. As many mention they want to have 27 things open most of the time so how would they see these things on a mobile device with small screen? If enough information cant be displayed in a useful manner on a small screen then its not worth investigating further. If enough info can be displayed then the considerations become licensing and technical.

Indeed people often complain about multi-monitor support because of lack of real estate...

[MentalChillness]

After a couple of minutes he would be registered as logged out, and then able to log back in.

Nah he tried relogging in the whole session. We run the server on lan because one of our players plays out of china and can't connect through the cloud. It wasn't until after I restarted the server that he was able to get back in.

[Jiminimonka]

Nah he tried relogging in the whole session. We run the server on lan because one of our players plays out of china and can't connect through the cloud. It wasn't until after I restarted the server that he was able to get back in.

Well at leaat he got to play, Discord often saves the day... :)

[The Decepticon]

Throwing my 2 cents in. I played this weekend on Roll20 and DnD Beyond as a player. What a mess that was. I could not get into my character sheet for over an hour. Just because it is web based don't think that it is automatic. I do understand the upsides of always being able to get into character sheet and would like to see that somehow as a functionality, but really like the aspect of FGU as is. I like my developer hours spent on including auras (ha ha) into the core system.

I will continue to say it, I am so glad I invested in FG over Foundry, Roll20 and DnD Beyond.

[Neovirtus]

I am frankly a little shocked to see people putting down a basic idea that would add functionality.

It is an age old feature of these forums. There is an established group of users who make it a point to come into perfectly reasonable and good natured posts about what people would like to see the software be able to do, and tell people why they shouldn't want that or why it isn't useful. Contrast that with the owner of the company coming in and saying "thanks for the feedback", for some reason people feel the need to tell you you're wrong to want the software to be any different than it is right now.

I think it goes without saying that every suggestion would be filtered through the development process of Dev resource allocation, company priorities, etc. but people get very defensive around here for reasons I don't pretend to actually understand.

[MentalChillness]

I think it's definitely a mix of, is it worth it to devote resources to creating a mobile application and some of the 'old-heads' don't really see the point of having FG functionality from their phones. I think DnD Beyond's success and buyout by WotC speaks for itself. People have phones, they want to use it while they're gaming in person and over VTTs.

[MentalChillness]

Well at leaat he got to play, Discord often saves the day... :)

Yeah but imagine if I didn't have discord nitro and didn't pay $30+ dollars a month to boost the server to level 2? I wouldn't have been able to stream it. Wouldn't FG rather have that discord money through a FG mobile app? I'd rather give it to Smiteworks, but until new features are added, I'll stick to each week's random sales and that $5 art subscription that I don't even really use.

[LordEntrails]

It is an age old feature of these forums. There is an established group of users who make it a point to come into perfectly reasonable and good natured posts about what people would like to see the software be able to do, and tell people why they shouldn't want that or why it isn't useful. Contrast that with the owner of the company coming in and saying "thanks for the feedback", for some reason people feel the need to tell you you're wrong to want the software to be any different than it is right now.

I think it goes without saying that every suggestion would be filtered through the development process of Dev resource allocation, company priorities, etc. but people get very defensive around here for reasons I don't pretend to actually understand.
Interesting take. And I do understand what you are saying, and see other people who perceive the responses the same way as you do.

But I don't agree with your interpretations of the responses.

Trenloe put it pretty well (IMO) in post #33. And Damned in #34.

First, I rarely recall anyone imply something like "tell people why they shouldn't want..." But rather why want they want might not be something they should expect. i.e. expectation setting is important. There are many things I would love to be developed in FG, but I don't want to have the devs spend time on such because of 'reasons' (cost, practicality, etc). IMO, it doesn't do anyone justice to get all excited about something if it's not reasonable to expect it to be implemented.

Second, I don't see anyone coming into any post (except in rare occasions in which moderators are quick to address) without a "reasonable and good natured" attitude.

Third, IMO when someone says they don't agree with an idea, or don't think such would be useful; shouldn't we assume they are talking about their own use case and preference? I guess it's about giving others the benefit of the doubt.

Fourth, can it really go without saying that every suggestion be understood to be filtered like you suggest? Sure, they all should be. But, it certainly seems like people don't make that assumption. Kind of like with my point #2 & 3. If you are not assuming people are responding in good faith or with their personal preferences, should others assume that everyone is making these same assumption on filtering suggestions?

Finally, don't many of these people point people to the Wish List even when they don't agree with a suggestion (myself included)? Everything that is added to the Wish List is only filtered by the community votes. Which seems like a desirable type of filtering.

My perception on this might be wrong, but I do hope you consider them with the positive and constructive attitude they are intended to be presented.

[Sulimo]

Yeah but imagine if I didn't have discord nitro and didn't pay $30+ dollars a month to boost the server to level 2? I wouldn't have been able to stream it. Wouldn't FG rather have that discord money through a FG mobile app? I'd rather give it to Smiteworks, but until new features are added, I'll stick to each week's random sales and that $5 art subscription that I don't even really use.

When you say stream, do you mean streaming to something like Twitch or Youtube, or simple screen sharing?

If it's just for screen sharing, you do not need Nitro or boosting to do that, I've done it many times with free Discord to show people how to build characters in FG (Rolemaster).

I stream my sessions to Twitch via OBS, which is also free.

[MentalChillness]

When you say stream, do you mean streaming to something like Twitch or Youtube, or simple screen sharing?

If it's just for screen sharing, you do not need Nitro or boosting to do that, I've done it many times with free Discord to show people how to build characters in FG (Rolemaster).

I stream my sessions to Twitch via OBS, which is also free.

Yeah the Screensharing, but I upgraded it for the higher quality video and audio. My point still remains that a sort of mobile access point would've been more useful than screensharing discord.

[Neovirtus]

To be clear, I think this community is great, and I love FG, and bring in new users all the time. This is something I'm bringing up because I care, not because I want to cause damage. So please forgive me if I don't use specific examples, I don't want to be perceived as calling out any one person.


...I do understand what you are saying, and see other people who perceive the responses the same way as you do.

But I don't agree with your interpretations of the responses.

I felt like this was an issue when I joined the community 10 years ago (and said as much), and clearly there are people who still perceive it as an issue today, and there have been many in between. I've tried to speak up against this mentality over the years to try to create a more welcoming environment. The fact that you don't see it as a problem is not surprising to me. I'm trying to change that by speaking up as a relatively senior member of the community.


Trenloe put it pretty well (IMO) in post #33. And Damned in #34.
I agree, those two are great examples of the right (or better) way to approach this kind of discussion.


First, I rarely recall anyone imply something like "tell people why they shouldn't want..." But rather why want they want might not be something they should expect. i.e. expectation setting is important. There are many things I would love to be developed in FG, but I don't want to have the devs spend time on such because of 'reasons' (cost, practicality, etc). IMO, it doesn't do anyone justice to get all excited about something if it's not reasonable to expect it to be implemented.
I agree, it is important to set expectations. I think the tone of these comments is off to a greater degree than you are recognizing in this post, and in your general perception of the community at large. I think this is an agree to disagree point.


Second, I don't see anyone coming into any post (except in rare occasions in which moderators are quick to address) without a "reasonable and good natured" attitude.
All I'll say is there are people I've had muted/blocked here and on the Discord server for years at this point. Some of them in this very thread, perhaps! It's not that rare.


Third, IMO when someone says they don't agree with an idea, or don't think such would be useful; shouldn't we assume they are talking about their own use case and preference? I guess it's about giving others the benefit of the doubt.

Fourth, can it really go without saying that every suggestion be understood to be filtered like you suggest? Sure, they all should be. But, it certainly seems like people don't make that assumption. Kind of like with my point #2 & 3. If you are not assuming people are responding in good faith or with their personal preferences, should others assume that everyone is making these same assumption on filtering suggestions?
I of course, largely agree. I think the difference is perspective. People coming in here and saying "I'd really like it if FG could do X" has limited negative effect while the crowd that screams "NO" feels a little like piling on. Also, one is likely a person's first or very early interaction with the community, a time when they probably deserve some leeway/good faith. I know that not every user that comes in making demands in the form of requests deserves that same level of kid gloves, but I think the people who hang around these forums the most have a pretty good feel for the difference between that and what I'm talking about.


Finally, don't many of these people point people to the Wish List even when they don't agree with a suggestion (myself included)? Everything that is added to the Wish List is only filtered by the community votes. Which seems like a desirable type of filtering.
Sure. I don't have a problem with the wishlist really, outside the fact that it feels a little dismissive sometimes, especially when something that feels like a bug/issue gets referred to feature request purgatory... but that's really a separate issue from what we're discussing here.


My perception on this might be wrong, but I do hope you consider them with the positive and constructive attitude they are intended to be presented.
You are a gentleman and a scholar. We're both having this discussion because we care. I saw a new user getting kind of steam rolled and I thought I should speak up. Perhaps I wasn't at my most diplomatic and if I offended anyone I do apologize. Though if I can ruffle a few feathers and get people to think about the way they respond sometimes I'll consider that a worthwhile endeavor.

[LordEntrails]

To be clear, I think this community is great, and I love FG, and bring in new users all the time. This is something I'm bringing up because I care, not because I want to cause damage. So please forgive me if I don't use specific examples, I don't want to be perceived as calling out any one person.
You make a lot of good points. And thanks for engaging with me so positively. Let's see if we can make some progress :)

I felt like this was an issue when I joined the community 10 years ago (and said as much), and clearly there are people who still perceive it as an issue today, and there have been many in between. I've tried to speak up against this mentality over the years to try to create a more welcoming environment. The fact that you don't see it as a problem is not surprising to me. I'm trying to change that by speaking up as a relatively senior member of the community.
Please keep speaking up :) I agree with you that people do still see it as a problem, and it's important that the larger community does recognize this. What I would hope for is that we (the community) can figure out a way that is less negative to fewer people (did I say that right? i.e. is perceived with less negativity overall).

I agree, those two are great examples of the right (or better) way to approach this kind of discussion.
They have taught me a lot. I have tried to learn from them. Hopefully others can as well.

I agree, it is important to set expectations. I think the tone of these comments is off to a greater degree than you are recognizing in this post, and in your general perception of the community at large. I think this is an agree to disagree point.
I totally accept that. And in part my concern over that is why I want to engage with you (and others) on this. In this, I recognize my bias and limited perspective. Hopefully myself (and others?) can continue to grow and be better at recognizing others perspectives.

All I'll say is there are people I've had muted/blocked here and on the Discord server for years at this point. Some of them in this very thread, perhaps! It's not that rare.
That's a bit discouraging to me. Not because of your choice/actions, but because I see the community differently. Perhaps I'm too permissive in my views? But maybe not, maybe this is something you could learn from me while I learn from you? I don't know, but my part in it is something for me to think about :)

I of course, largely agree. I think the difference is perspective. People coming in here and saying "I'd really like it if FG could do X" has limited negative effect while the crowd that screams "NO" feels a little like piling on. Also, one is likely a person's first or very early interaction with the community, a time when they probably deserve some leeway/good faith. I know that not every user that comes in making demands in the form of requests deserves that same level of kid gloves, but I think the people who hang around these forums the most have a pretty good feel for the difference between that and what I'm talking about.
I'd like to think that we've gotten better in this regards. At least it seems to me through my rose tinted glasses! I think that in general folks are better than we were a few years ago about "piling on" as well as the kid gloves types of posts like Damned and Trenloe made in this thread.

But, I'm open to being told that I'm wrong.


Sure. I don't have a problem with the wishlist really, outside the fact that it feels a little dismissive sometimes, especially when something that feels like a bug/issue gets referred to feature request purgatory... but that's really a separate issue from what we're discussing here.
I get that. I do wish Moon et al would spend a bit more time statusing and closing Wish List items. I think that would help with the perception that it's a purgatory.

You are a gentleman and a scholar. We're both having this discussion because we care. I saw a new user getting kind of steam rolled and I thought I should speak up. Perhaps I wasn't at my most diplomatic and if I offended anyone I do apologize. Though if I can ruffle a few feathers and get people to think about the way they respond sometimes I'll consider that a worthwhile endeavor.
Thank you for doing that. It's a worthwhile effort! And you are plenty diplomatic. Just in this medium of internet forums it is much harder for all of us to understand intents and connotations and to interpret things per our expectations.

[anstett]

And these last two posts are why this community can be an example to others in the RPG community.

Thank you.

[valeros]

When discussing the ideas about tablets or phones, please remember that the full functionality does not need to be there and not everyone uses FG the same way. Even something small can be very useful and fun.

For example, previously I created a simple program that worked with FG to give the players some functionality on the phone. Only to move their characters, pan the map, and roll dice. But that was all we needed. FG displayed on a large screen TV and we had a blast playing in person. (DM was on a laptop connected to a different laptop that acted as the players FG which was displayed to the large screen TV.)

The DM could use the full power of FG and from their phones players could move their own characters around, move the map as needed, and of course Roll Dice! :) It was great!

And that is just something simple. With even a small API, a great number of things could be done. It does not need to be the full suite of FG functionality.

Here is all the user had on the phone. Simple and amateurish and nothing like the FG suite, but it worked for us to have fun which is what FG is here is support.

https://i.imgur.com/q1zeFvD.jpg

[ddavison]

Nice job Valeros.

[Ryuson]

I'm parsing out the OP and it looks like there are a few parts (some implied), which I'll comment on separately:

1. Modernize the UI: I took this separate from the next part (re: mobile/tablets). But yes, that concern has been raised before and continues to be raised. I'm all for it. That being said, I do see that the UI has much improved since I began in 2020.

2. FG available on mobile and tablets: A question I had though was on the Wish List; I believe there is just one (I've visited it but not too often tbh). But should there be two - one for current users and another open to the public (i.e., potential customers)? As a current user, this is not a feature I or my gaming group see as a priority, but I can see the appeal. However, if potential customers do, that would make it a bigger priority? I would think SW not only wants to keep their current customers happy but see what future features should be added to grow market share.

That being said, I am not sure SW or FG should go "head-to-head" with its main competitors (Roll20, FVTT and WotC's upcoming VTT). It should play it's own game, if that makes sense, b/c that's a game it could win. Since all the hullabaloo surrounding WotC and Roll20 joining forces with OBS, I've been thinking how FG competes in the market place. What is its competitive advantages? One obvious advantage (at least to me) is the robustness of the program itself. I didn't see a program out there like it. I saw FG as the tool when I want to run more complex/crunchier games. FVTT may come close but it requires a level of technical expertise I simply don't have nor the time to figure it out. I'm going to run something on Roll20 for the first time this year (for free), but it will be a FATE game. But we all know, low crunch games like this can literally be run simply on discord or a whole host of other options.

3. Persistent server: This has been raised before as well. The big question is profitability and whether FG itself wants to enter that space. FVTT pretty much has the model, with self hosting, cloud hosting or partner hosting being options. Any entrepreneurs out there?

[LordEntrails]

Nice feedback Ryuson.

Two things; FG has been available on OBS longer than Roll20 has (it was the first VTT to have access to the DMSguild). But with legal issues about extensions and software, most of the new products moved to the FG Forge (it's why the Forge was created).

From rumors I've heard, the issue with persistent servers is actually legal and due to licensing issues with IP holders. Don't know if that's true or the details, but it at least an important consideration.

[BushViper]

It is an age old feature of these forums. There is an established group of users who make it a point to come into perfectly reasonable and good natured posts about what people would like to see the software be able to do, and tell people why they shouldn't want that or why it isn't useful. Contrast that with the owner of the company coming in and saying "thanks for the feedback", for some reason people feel the need to tell you you're wrong to want the software to be any different than it is right now.

I think it goes without saying that every suggestion would be filtered through the development process of Dev resource allocation, company priorities, etc. but people get very defensive around here for reasons I don't pretend to actually understand.

This post couldn't be more accurate.

[Ludd_G]

...

[Ludd_G]

When discussing the ideas about tablets or phones, please remember that the full functionality does not need to be there and not everyone uses FG the same way. Even something small can be very useful and fun.

For example, previously I created a simple program that worked with FG to give the players some functionality on the phone. Only to move their characters, pan the map, and roll dice. But that was all we needed. FG displayed on a large screen TV and we had a blast playing in person. (DM was on a laptop connected to a different laptop that acted as the players FG which was displayed to the large screen TV.)

The DM could use the full power of FG and from their phones players could move their own characters around, move the map as needed, and of course Roll Dice! :) It was great!

And that is just something simple. With even a small API, a great number of things could be done. It does not need to be the full suite of FG functionality.

Here is all the user had on the phone. Simple and amateurish and nothing like the FG suite, but it worked for us to have fun which is what FG is here is support.

https://i.imgur.com/q1zeFvD.jpg

Hi Valeros,

Any chance of sharing this? It'd make my table-top face to face games (with me running the game on FG, players rolling dice and using paper sheets, FG map displayed on horizontal tv with miniatures matched to tokens etc.) so much easier for my players. No worries if not, but I thought I'd ask.

Cheers,

Simon

[celestian]

I felt like this was an issue when I joined the community 10 years ago (and said as much), and clearly there are people who still perceive it as an issue today, and there have been many in between. I've tried to speak up against this mentality over the years to try to create a more welcoming environment. The fact that you don't see it as a problem is not surprising to me. I'm trying to change that by speaking up as a relatively senior member of the community.


I've seen it a lot and its not just related to suggestions. I know a few folks that will avoid asking questions or making suggestions due to how it seems like not matter how benign the request/suggestion someone will always make some dismissive, snide or condescending remarks by some of the more active people in the community. There are some outstanding folks in the community that make up for some of this but, it's what I've seen.

To stick to the OPs original theme... Couple things that would improve FG for me and mine, and it's no easy task, make it easier to develop for. The forge is a great improvement but developing for FG using Lua and it's own custom API and nonstandard configurations is very daunting. No real debug tools (being able to set breakpoints to look at values and see problems). Documentation for the FGU API exists but there is almost none for layering on CoreRPG (the functions within required to make use of it). With the size of the dev team at SW, if the system was easier to develop for it could reduce some of that load by having a much larger dev community. No small request but it's been something I've desired since before FGU (and was hoping it would see major changes in this area).

[BushViper]

I've seen it a lot and its not just related to suggestions. I know a few folks that will avoid asking questions or making suggestions due to how it seems like not matter how benign the request/suggestion someone will always make some dismissive, snide or condescending remarks by some of the more active people in the community. There are some outstanding folks in the community that make up for some of this but, it's what I've seen.

Yep. It's a near-guarantee that you'll see the same 4-7 folks dogpiling individuals.

None of us who have noticed this know each other, much less spoken to one another. We have absolutely nothing to gain by reaching the same conclusion.

It's a legitimate issue and anyone who doesn't see it is not being honest with themselves (or part of the problem).

[DaddieCat]

When discussing the ideas about tablets or phones, please remember that the full functionality does not need to be there and not everyone uses FG the same way. Even something small can be very useful and fun.

For example, previously I created a simple program that worked with FG to give the players some functionality on the phone. Only to move their characters, pan the map, and roll dice. But that was all we needed. FG displayed on a large screen TV and we had a blast playing in person. (DM was on a laptop connected to a different laptop that acted as the players FG which was displayed to the large screen TV.)

The DM could use the full power of FG and from their phones players could move their own characters around, move the map as needed, and of course Roll Dice! :) It was great!

And that is just something simple. With even a small API, a great number of things could be done. It does not need to be the full suite of FG functionality.

Here is all the user had on the phone. Simple and amateurish and nothing like the FG suite, but it worked for us to have fun which is what FG is here is support.

https://i.imgur.com/q1zeFvD.jpg

This is stunning!

[LordEntrails]

For those of you who see this undesirable behavior from some in this community (myself included no doubt). I would appreciate anyone willing to reach out privately (or in another thread if you so desire) to help me figure out how I can improve my own behavior and influence others towards behavior that would not be seen so negative. Thanks.

[indavis]

When discussing the ideas about tablets or phones, please remember that the full functionality does not need to be there and not everyone uses FG the same way. Even something small can be very useful and fun.

For example, previously I created a simple program that worked with FG to give the players some functionality on the phone. Only to move their characters, pan the map, and roll dice. But that was all we needed. FG displayed on a large screen TV and we had a blast playing in person. (DM was on a laptop connected to a different laptop that acted as the players FG which was displayed to the large screen TV.)

The DM could use the full power of FG and from their phones players could move their own characters around, move the map as needed, and of course Roll Dice! :) It was great!

And that is just something simple. With even a small API, a great number of things could be done. It does not need to be the full suite of FG functionality.

Here is all the user had on the phone. Simple and amateurish and nothing like the FG suite, but it worked for us to have fun which is what FG is here is support.
(snipped the image)



This is almost exactly what I was requesting! This is awesome and shows this is possible.

[epithet]

I'd still like to be able to go fullscreen like we used to, without a title bar.

[Nick Frost]

I'd still like to be able to go fullscreen like we used to, without a title bar.

On windows, it's as easy as creating a shortcut using the following: "[YOUR FG INSTALLATION FOLDER]\FantasyGrounds.exe" -window-mode borderless

You can check more options at: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/PlayerCommandLineArguments.html

[Mytherus]

I also think this would be wasted dev time given smiteworks is not a gigantic studio with dozens of developers.

As I always do I’ll be honest with my view . If there’s dms that stress because their players need 24 hr access to their FGU sessions…do you and you players even understand the concept of fgu?

Why do players need 24/7 access to the fgu session?

I have players all over the USA and one in Canada. They need to make a character change for any reason they DM me on discord I get back to them to work out a time to open my FGU session to them. We all work. We don’t stress over it.

I feel the make things work on a mobile phone is more a “cool thing” than anything else. You don’t prioritize things just on “yeah but it be cool” in business if you don’t have the resources and there’s a list of true priorities to get through.

[seycyrus]

On windows, it's as easy as creating a shortcut using the following: "[YOUR FG INSTALLATION FOLDER]\FantasyGrounds.exe" -window-mode borderless

You can check more options at: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/PlayerCommandLineArguments.html

Yer (almost) a wizard Harry!

When I do this, it opens up FGU on one of my monitors, but doesn't use the entire screen. Is there a way to do this AND stretch it out across two monitors?

Thanks.

[indavis]

Whether or not it's a waste of time is up to Smiteworks to decide. This is their choose your own adventure. Only they can decide if it's worth spending the money to hire more programmers, or shift focus. Let's face facts though, and that is that other VTT's with html connectivity are quite popular at the moment. I have a lot of money invested in FG and want it to be top of the heap, but from what I see, it's losing ground to web based solutions. I guess time will tell the outcome.

[Nick Frost]

Yer (almost) a wizard Harry!

When I do this, it opens up FGU on one of my monitors, but doesn't use the entire screen. Is there a way to do this AND stretch it out across two monitors?

Thanks.

You can play with: "[YOUR FG PATH]\FantasyGrounds.exe" -popupwindow -screen-width [NUMBER] -screen-height [NUMBER].

Can I get a wand now? :p:D

[Macgreine]

Pop out windows and being able to "ping" a location on the map would make this FGU even more awesome than it is. No need to try and compete when your already the best. I Gm'd on a VTT that was supposedly tablet/phone compatible and I had to tell 2 players no more. It was taking them 5 mins to roll a perception check cause when they open their character sheet it covered the map and their token. In most cases they would ask other players to move their tokens for them because they couldn't seem to do it on their tablet. It was a mess. I'm not sure I would worry to much about Hasbro right now after just losing 129 million and their stocks falling 10% just in the last month. Anyway that's my 2 cents.

[Nyarly Dude]

Ping on the map would be useful. For a player to indicate a location to the GM right now basically requires the DM to enable drawing for all players and have them doodle on it, and then erase the doodle when they're done. Doable, but, hm, slightly crude and could be imprecise depending on how good they are at digital doodling.

[LordEntrails]

Ping on the map would be useful. For a player to indicate a location to the GM right now basically requires the DM to enable drawing for all players and have them doodle on it, and then erase the doodle when they're done. Doable, but, hm, slightly crude and could be imprecise depending on how good they are at digital doodling.
Use Quick Pointers Common Shortcuts & Hotkeys - Fantasy Grounds Customer Portal - Confluence (atlassian.net) (https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/1275232424/Common+Shortcuts+Hotkeys#Map)
I usually use CTRL for a circle, but sometimes an arrow works just fine.

[Nick Frost]

Ping on the map would be useful. For a player to indicate a location to the GM right now basically requires the DM to enable drawing for all players and have them doodle on it, and then erase the doodle when they're done. Doable, but, hm, slightly crude and could be imprecise depending on how good they are at digital doodling.

Players can draw temporary arrow pointers by holding both mouse buttons and dragging. They can also draw squares, circles and 90º angles with ctrl, alt and shift + click&drag. These temporary ponters are automatically deleted when a new one is drawn.
Players can also draw "regular" pointers with the right-click menu.

No need to "enable" anything, nor have any artistic talent.

[MentalChillness]

I also think this would be wasted dev time given smiteworks is not a gigantic studio with dozens of developers.

As I always do I’ll be honest with my view . If there’s dms that stress because their players need 24 hr access to their FGU sessions…do you and you players even understand the concept of fgu?

Why do players need 24/7 access to the fgu session?

I have players all over the USA and one in Canada. They need to make a character change for any reason they DM me on discord I get back to them to work out a time to open my FGU session to them. We all work. We don’t stress over it.

I feel the make things work on a mobile phone is more a “cool thing” than anything else. You don’t prioritize things just on “yeah but it be cool” in business if you don’t have the resources and there’s a list of true priorities to get through.

Then we should be clear that FGU is not operating on a cloud. A
Cloud services facilitate the flow of user data from front-end clients (e.g., users’ servers, tablets, desktops, laptops—anything on the users’ ends), through the internet, to the provider’s systems, and back. Cloud services promote the building of cloud-native applications and the flexibility of working in the cloud. Users can access cloud services with nothing more than a computer, operating system, and internet connectivity.

Based on that definition, if I have to run FGU for people to access my server, it's not a cloud at all. People should have access regardless if I'm on the server or not. This would make even your life easier, having to get DM requests from your players just to access your server.

I think an actual cloud idea is great. But it needs to be fully implemented for it to be considered a cloud service. I understand the costs behind this. I am willing to pay for my share for Smiteworks to host my games cloud so that my players can connect and go as they please.

Mobile access is a whole other topic that I think warrants attention because of the direction of tech in general. I don't know if FG can get a contract with DnD Beyond and WotC. But I would appreciate Smiteworks truly making use of cloud and mobile technologies, even if it's just small steps here and there.

Many of my players use DnD Beyond, but I'm fully invested in FG. So I have no way for them to easily cross platform their character sheets from DnD Beyond into FG. Something I think that should be considered in the future.

[damned]

Then we should be clear that FGU is not operating on a cloud. A

Based on that definition, if I have to run FGU for people to access my server, it's not a cloud at all.

It has been pointed out multiple times in this thread that the GMs computer is the server.

Roll20 is a cloud.
DnD Beyond is a cloud.
Foundry in its standard configuration (self hosted) is not a cloud. Foundry dont offer a cloud. They have some partners who offer Foundry as a service with your own product key but it is still not really cloud.

[MentalChillness]

It has been pointed out multiple times in this thread that the GMs computer is the server.

Roll20 is a cloud.
DnD Beyond is a cloud.
Foundry in its standard configuration (self hosted) is not a cloud. Foundry dont offer a cloud. They have some partners who offer Foundry as a service with your own product key but it is still not really cloud.

Absolutely!

But my issue is with this prompt:
56244

I think Smiteworks should remove this wording of Cloud. In the best of circumstances, imo, they actually implement a cloud system that people can access servers whether the GM is online or not.

In the worst case, this amounts to false advertising which is not something I want for my favorite VTT. Sure, there could be a loss in translation. But coming back to VTTs after a few year break, and after backing FGU, I had some high hopes for the progress that's been made since 2019. This got me excited, but when learning that it's not cloud based at all and there remains no access for mobile, I was disappointed. I want to see this company succeed as I have chosen it to my VTT of choice. I like the UI better/the possible automations, etc.

This cloud option in the menu will only do us a disservice unless it actually gets implemented at some point in the future, which I would love to see and utilize.

[damned]

The server has registered itself against a cloud broker (which is a cloud service) and you are connecting to the cloud server to connect to the game.
I dont see Fantasy Grounds as being advertised as a cloud service anywhere.

As has been suggested previously - before you even begin to look at coding support for a mobile I think you need to decide whether you can even display enough info on mobile for it to be useful. The most common complaint I see about FGU is people wanting access to more screen space.

[seycyrus]

You can play with: "[YOUR FG PATH]\FantasyGrounds.exe" -popupwindow -screen-width [NUMBER] -screen-height [NUMBER].

Can I get a wand now? :p:D

Thank you, you are truly a worker of the ancient magic!

[Egheal]

You can play with: "[YOUR FG PATH]\FantasyGrounds.exe" -popupwindow -screen-width [NUMBER] -screen-height [NUMBER].

Can I get a wand now? :p:D

...and you tell us this calmly, in a relaxed way. You don't know that we have been looking for this for months, don't you? Thanks a lot!