Savage Worlds Addition

[Scar006]

Good Day everyone

I finally bought Fantasy Grounds for my group and we will start a new Campaign with Savage Worlds. I just purchased the Addition from Digital adventures but am missing some futures. Maybe they are already implementet and I just can't find them:

Ammo Tracker: I think somethign similar is implemented in d20. But I haven't found anything for SW.

Addintional Sheet for Spells: As the Spell descriptions and Power cost varies, it would be much more convenient if the Spells could be listed on a seperate page, rather than in such a small space.

Templates:I just can't find the tokens for the templates. If anyone has done them I would be very glad if they could be shared.

dice: The dices which you add to your char sheet don't seem very distinctive for me. If they would have printed the max number on them (e.g. on a d6 a 6)
it would be much easier to dicern which one is which.


Thats all I have found from the Character creation. Thank you for a great product and keep up the great work.

[joshuha]

Good Day everyone

Ammo Tracker: I think somethign similar is implemented in d20. But I haven't found anything for SW.

This is something we are considering.



Addintional Sheet for Spells: As the Spell descriptions and Power cost varies, it would be much more convenient if the Spells could be listed on a seperate page, rather than in such a small space.

This will be improved in the upcoming patch for Savage Worlds.



Templates:I just can't find the tokens for the templates. If anyone has done them I would be very glad if they could be shared.

This was for a couple reasons. One, there is no standard size we really had to accomplish the template sizes in inches since maps can be scaled on the fly. Also, a token template would cover up the tokens underneath it. We recommend using the built in FG circle pointer on a gridded map so it highlights the appropiate area.




dice: The dices which you add to your char sheet don't seem very distinctive for me. If they would have printed the max number on them (e.g. on a d6 a 6)
it would be much easier to dicern which one is which.

Thats a FG bug. The diefield control doesn't support text labels like other fields. Believe me I tried.



Thats all I have found from the Character creation. Thank you for a great product and keep up the great work.

Let me know if you have other suggestions because I am currently working on a patch for some other feedback we have had. Thanks for the purchase.

[Scar006]

Thank you for the fast reply and all the Information!


This was for a couple reasons. One, there is no standard size we really had to accomplish the template sizes in inches since maps can be scaled on the fly. Also, a token template would cover up the tokens underneath it. We recommend using the built in FG circle pointer on a gridded map so it highlights the appropiate area.

But there is a standard scale (or a least thats what I have noticed) for all tokens if they aren't modified with the Combat Tracker. So take the standard PC Token from the Goblin adventure as a one inch scale and create the Template appropriate?
I don't have any problems of drawing a circle but the cone is hard to replicate (as the standard degree of cone from the tools is given, or is it possible to manipulate it?)


Thats a FG bug. The diefield control doesn't support text labels like other fields. Believe me I tried.

How about distinctive colours for the dices? (like grey for d4, green for d6, blue for d8 etc.) so they are visibly different? Or is this impossible?
(Sorry but I have no idea about the programming for this software so my suggestions aren't considering the difficulties or restrictions)


Another suggestion would be, to have a minimized version of the Skills, weapons, Spells etc. available (mainly to roll the dices with it) I think something similar is already implemented in the d20 Version.

Will the Allies token manipulation for PC be implemented in the next patch? (That PC can control their allies even if they are linked to the combat tracker)

Also for the powers, It would be nice If there was an indication for maximum power and the actual power. As right now there is only one power point field (as far as I have seen).

and a wounds indicator for the combat tracker (maybe three circles for wildcards which can be ticked off if they are wounded).

Would it be possible to have a visual indicator on the tokens (which are linked with the combat tracker) to indicate shaken or incapitate status?
This isn't a problem with PC but if you have a lot of minions on the table it might be easier to see on one look which ones are shaken etc.


Thank you again for the fast reply and all the hard work you have but into this addon and that it is even further improved and updated is just fantastic.

[Sgain]

I'm curious as to why you need to see the dice for the players skill rolls. I simply 'grab' the appropriate die and place it into the players skill slot, then when the player needs to roll the skill he double clicks the die and it rolls it. I agree that the die aren't very clear (the d6 looks a lot like the d8 which really looks like a d10) but they do work correctly when 'rolled'.

As to powers for spells; most have variable levels of power adjustable by the player. If they wish they can make more entries into their Power listing showing the various power costs, but I usually just get them to state how much power they are using for that spell and have them remove it from their power level at that time (bolt and blast being the most commonly 'changed' spells). So I don't really understand the need for more information cluttering up the characters sheet.

There is a wound tracker in the combat tracker, its a number field. I use the mouse wheel to adjust it during combat, but I usually have the players adjust their PC's wound level when they are injured. A more visual (ie; on thier token) system would be cool, but I'd rather see an easier way to add NPC's and their tokens to the combat tracker (to de-clutter it). The present system (that additonal box thingie) doesn't allow me to add tokens it just tracks wounds and I end up just spinning the NPC tokens upside down to indicate shaken rather than update the combat tracker and its often easily missed during combat (since its just a little 'tick' mark).

I agree that it would be nice to have some more visual aids in the game in terms of combat conditions (especially shaken indication on tokens), but I think they should be independant of the combat tracker as I don't always keep my NPC's on it (especially large groups).

[Scar006]

I'm curious as to why you need to see the dice for the players skill rolls. I simply 'grab' the appropriate die and place it into the players skill slot, then when the player needs to roll the skill he double clicks the die and it rolls it. I agree that the die aren't very clear (the d6 looks a lot like the d8 which really looks like a d10) but they do work correctly when 'rolled'.

Yes you are right, its defenitly not game breaking or anything. But makes it much easier and faster to see how strong an oponent is, without haveing to roll a die. If it could be implemented I would be glad.


As to powers for spells; most have variable levels of power adjustable by the player. If they wish they can make more entries into their Power listing showing the various power costs, but I usually just get them to state how much power they are using for that spell and have them remove it from their power level at that time (bolt and blast being the most commonly 'changed' spells). So I don't really understand the need for more information cluttering up the characters sheet.

I agree, the char sheet (main) has already enough information, thats why I think it would be better to have a seperate sheet for spells also because not every char has spells.

The allied and NPC sheets could also be improved (maybe have a special Allies, vehicle sheets inspired by the ones from the book). As to have some fields for weapons which automatically add the modiefiers to the rolls etc.
and the ammunition for the minions (which is included in the original allied Sheet from the Book) would be a great addition.

[joshuha]

Thank you for the fast reply and all the Information!


But there is a standard scale (or a least thats what I have noticed) for all tokens if they aren't modified with the Combat Tracker. So take the standard PC Token from the Goblin adventure as a one inch scale and create the Template appropriate?
I don't have any problems of drawing a circle but the cone is hard to replicate (as the standard degree of cone from the tools is given, or is it possible to manipulate it?)


Well the scale can actually vary from different products and even FG uses a its own size. For instance, tokens dragged from PCs (which I like to use) are usually around 32 pixels while the community has "generally" decided on 50 pixels for a medium sized creature. Also, there is the FG bug that the template as a token will go over the other tokens making them nearly impossible to grab unless you remove the template.




How about distinctive colours for the dices? (like grey for d4, green for d6, blue for d8 etc.) so they are visibly different? Or is this impossible?
(Sorry but I have no idea about the programming for this software so my suggestions aren't considering the difficulties or restrictions)

Not possible unfortunately. The only way around it would be for me to rewrite my own custom control that "acts" like a diefield but its possible that I lose some functionality when I do that.



Another suggestion would be, to have a minimized version of the Skills, weapons, Spells etc. available (mainly to roll the dices with it) I think something similar is already implemented in the d20 Version.

This is something being considered but may not make it due to the time involved.



Will the Allies token manipulation for PC be implemented in the next patch? (That PC can control their allies even if they are linked to the combat tracker)

Yes, this has been tested and will be in the next patch. Any NPC marked with the green friendly icon in the combat tracker will be controllable by the PCs.



and a wounds indicator for the combat tracker (maybe three circles for wildcards which can be ticked off if they are wounded).

As mentioned there is a numberfield for this. This was done that way to allow easy drag and dropping of the number to use as the penalty in die rolls. Also space is at a premium in the combat tracker so we have to minimize the graphics things that we put in there (at least on the GM side).



Would it be possible to have a visual indicator on the tokens (which are linked with the combat tracker) to indicate shaken or incapitate status?
This isn't a problem with PC but if you have a lot of minions on the table it might be easier to see on one look which ones are shaken etc.

This is a limitation of FG. We have tried adding overlays on to tokens but it doesn't work like that yet. Even the text label (which could be assigned programatically) is only available on hovering. What I do is shaken I turn the token diagonally and incapacitated completely sideways.

[richvalle]

This is a limitation of FG. We have tried adding overlays on to tokens but it doesn't work like that yet. Even the text label (which could be assigned programatically) is only available on hovering. What I do is shaken I turn the token diagonally and incapacitated completely sideways.

How do you handle facing then?

Since shields only help on guys to the front and left (for right handed characters) don't you need to keep track of facing?

You could use the ol' war game tactic of placing some sort of marker near the guy in question. A small yellow one for shaken and red for incapacitated. It would have to be small so that you don't have to place it on the token.

rv

[Sgain]

Facing isn't really an issue in SW as it is in 3.5 with all its silly 'backstabbing/flanking' rules. Most of the time in combat opponents know that they are being attacked and are considered to be moving and fighting and defending themselves (hence the parry value to hit an opponent). So facing isn't really all that important. I also tilt my shaken tokens. I've tried placing tokens (that skull one is nice) beside shaken NPC's but frankly its a pain to keep pulling the things out of the box and putting them on the map, so I just point and turn my shakens.

I wish there were a few more token controls (like click and create copies of the same token on a map) and such, but right now there aren't and it does slow the game down to play around with the things so I use shortcuts.

[nezzir]

I'm just about ready to start my Fallout module for SW. Any ETA on the next version of SW that you mentioned?

[joshuha]

I'm just about ready to start my Fallout module for SW. Any ETA on the next version of SW that you mentioned?

Sorry I can't give an exact date. I am working on getting the subgroups improved and that is taking awhile. After that I am tackling improving the NPC sheet and then some other odds and ends.

One thing we have to consider is we have to minimize changes that affect campaigns created under the base version. I don't want people having to recreate sheets or anything so it makes it harder to implement some changes.

[richvalle]

Facing isn't really an issue in SW as it is in 3.5 with all its silly 'backstabbing/flanking' rules. Most of the time in combat opponents know that they are being attacked and are considered to be moving and fighting and defending themselves (hence the parry value to hit an opponent). So facing isn't really all that important. I also tilt my shaken tokens. I've tried placing tokens (that skull one is nice) beside shaken NPC's but frankly its a pain to keep pulling the things out of the box and putting them on the map, so I just point and turn my shakens.

I wish there were a few more token controls (like click and create copies of the same token on a map) and such, but right now there aren't and it does slow the game down to play around with the things so I use shortcuts.

Well, 3.5 has NO facing (unless you are flying... I hate the flying rules!). The 'backstab' idea went out in 3.5 and you don't need facing for flanking. SW does seem to have facing built in because of the shield rule. I.e. you only get the shield bonus on attackers in front of you and on the left side of you.

I had also thought about the tilting idea but thought it would mess up the facing stuff. Unless you just toss the shield rule out and let the character have the bonus for all attacks which would be one way to go.

rv

[Griogre]

The shield facing rule is in the SW Explorer edition and I presume the other settings that require the core savage world rules. However, it is not in Pirates of the Spanish Main setting which does not use the SW core. I noticed some small differances like this when I made up a PotSM referance.

Yeah, the 3.5 fly rules are crap. As bad as the grapple rules in their own way. I suspect they are widely ignored.

[nezzir]

OK, so I ordered the SW rule book (Explorer's Edition), and lined up a cool game. I connected early and was poking around in it and found that the SW ruleset for FGII is "Revised", not the new "Explorer's" :( <--- "VERY" sad face

This patch you were talking about, is it going to correct that and cut over the new Explorer's Edition?

[joshuha]

No. When we get a license its very specific on what we can do. However, the diefields on the sheet do support multiple dice so the new damage system for melee is really no big deal. The only thing it won't have is obviously any new reference material.

Having said that, there could be something in the pipeline but I don't have the details and will have to let the higher ups provide those if he can.

[nezzir]

No where on your page does it state that the ruleset uses an out of date (old) version of Savage Worlds. It would have been nice to make that clear to potential buyers, if for no other reason than to make sure customers purchase the correct version of the rulebook if they need a companion product. As it stands, Pinnacle no longer sells the rulebook for the ruleset you designed.

Being new to Savage Worlds, this has made game play a bit unwieldy for me.

[Thore_Ironrock]

No where on your page does it state that the ruleset uses an out of date (old) version of Savage Worlds. It would have been nice to make that clear to potential buyers, if for no other reason than to make sure customers purchase the correct version of the rulebook if they need a companion product. As it stands, Pinnacle no longer sells the rulebook for the ruleset you designed.

Being new to Savage Worlds, this has made game play a bit unwieldy for me.

Mark,

First off, at the time we produced the first version of SW for FGv1, SWEXP wasn't even out yet, and the same goes for SW for FGv2 (though the timing here is rather close). In other words, our product development is older than the release of SWEXP so it was never possible for the ruleset to be SWEXP in the first place.

Second, the conversion of the core rules was the license we were granted by PEG at the time we signed our agreement.

Third, we will be doing the Savage Worlds Explorer Edition. We just reached this agreement. I was going to announce this to the community with a preview of our 2008 products, but since you seemed so upset I'll throw it out there now. Hope you feel better.

:)

[Kalan]

What Thore said ;)

Revised is still the "core" rules, as Pinnacle right now has no plans to update all their products to the SW:EX rules. IF/WHEN they do, I would imagine SW:EX will become the new standard rules.

Right now, there is only one setting which is 100% SW:EX compatible, all the others still use Revised.

That said, the differences between the two editions are VERY minor. One is melee damage, in that you no longer get Wild Dice on melee damage, nor can you spend a benny. But they also changed it to a two die system (instead of just a straight Trait roll).

Another change is Incapacitation, and the Chase rules got a bit of an overhaul.

But as Thore said, we've just received the agreement to work on SW:EX - and I've just started work on it. Can't promise a WHEN yet, but its moving along well :)

[nezzir]

Mark,

First off, at the time we produced the first version of SW for FGv1, SWEXP wasn't even out yet, and the same goes for SW for FGv2 (though the timing here is rather close). In other words, our product development is older than the release of SWEXP so it was never possible for the ruleset to be SWEXP in the first place.

Second, the conversion of the core rules was the license we were granted by PEG at the time we signed our agreement.

Third, we will be doing the Savage Worlds Explorer Edition. We just reached this agreement. I was going to announce this to the community with a preview of our 2008 products, but since you seemed so upset I'll throw it out there now. Hope you feel better.

:)

Thanks for responding Thore. Are you planning on offering upgrades for product bought after a certain date?

[Thore_Ironrock]

Thanks for responding Thore. Are you planning on offering upgrades for product bought after a certain date?

No. SWEXP is a separate ISBN product all together from PEG, and will be treated as such for the FGII product line per our license agreement. However, the tentative plan is to have a module only release, not a full ruleset, which will make the cost lower than SW core ruleset.

[Sigurd]

Thanks for the clarification, Thore. Your post is much clearer than your product description:

"All of the rules presented in the Savage Worlds core product, converted to easy-to-access links on your Fantasy Grounds desktop."

'core product' certainly means the dominant shipping product to me. I imagined that to be the explorer edtn. - the rules they ship the most of when I purchased. I can understand that your point of reference is your product production date but your purchasers point of reference is their purchase date.

Dont get me wrong, both versions are good rules and the game is eminently playable but if you are going to license a particular publication it would be helpful to put its title in your product description. If you don't state the publication name I think the confusion is justified.


Sigurd

Who likes your ruleset, and thinks you did a great job for $10. I too however was a little dissapointed that it wasn't current.

[Scar006]

I noticed in the game we played today, than the other PC couldn't see the wounds or condition of the other PC on the Combat tracker. The wounds of the monsters were visible.

Is this intented or did we have a bug of some sort? And also they couldn't write or see any condition which were applied (as spell effects which were added through the litthel man symbol)

Also will there be a wild die command added for the Quickslots? (something like 2w6+/wilddie)

[TaranShannara]

Found a reason why I need to see the die on the sheet. Since I don't have the character sheet, it is on the server, the only way I can look at it off-line is to take screen caps.

This is my first time looking through the rulesset/icons folder. There are d4_icon.png and d4_labeled.png, etc. Any reason the labeled ones can't be used instead of the plan ones? Is there a place to changes this; Only noticed the graphics.xml where the die are equated to the images.



I'm curious as to why you need to see the dice for the players skill rolls. I simply 'grab' the appropriate die and place it into the players skill slot, then when the player needs to roll the skill he double clicks the die and it rolls it. I agree that the die aren't very clear (the d6 looks a lot like the d8 which really looks like a d10) but they do work correctly when 'rolled'.

[Sgain]

holy cow! I copied and then renamed my icons to the labeled ones and they are easier to figure out. You have to unwrite protect the ruleset/icon folder (and I backed up the origonal unlabeled icons).

Good idea Taran!

[MrJamela]

Wow, that is so much easier to read.

Why isn't that the default?

[joshuha]

Have you tried rolling a die in the chatwindow with that setting? You'll notice your labeled die is now the default background for the die no matter what you roll and the result will be superimposed and probably look pretty ugly.

The issue is this:
The die_icon files are what is used in the chatwindow to display the number of the die that you use so these have to be blank.

However, the diefields/controls also use this same icon so thus have to be blank. Normally controls allow you to add textwidgets to them where you could place a number on top of the control but diefields don't allow this and that has been submitted as a bug.

As far as the labeled_icons these are for the right-click menus on assigning the diefield and is a custom thing related to the Savage Worlds ruleset.

[MrJamela]

Ha.

Yeah, I just noticed that.

So the solution is to just color the dice so at least its clear that they are different.

I'll have to do that and post the files somewhere if people want to use those instead.

Jaime

[TaranShannara]

Just played through a session with it changed, wasn't too much of a problem with the overlay in the chatwindow. The white background bubble around the die aids and since the totals are on the left, it works OK.