Effects/Modifiers in Call of Cthulhu

[StickClip]

Is it possible to tie a bonus/penalty dice to an Effect or Modifier with the Call of Cthulhu 7E rule-set? I'd like to be able to assign a status like Outnumbered, Prone, Aiming, Point Blank, etc characters on the combat tracker. I tried setting it up myself but I wasn't able to tie penalty/bonus dice to the Effects, just a text description.

Fantasy Grounds automates Effects/Modifiers so well for other games, like Savage Worlds. I know CoC is more theater of the mind focused than many games, but it would be super useful functionality. Often I'll let a player assist another player, giving them a bonus, but keeping track of the bonuses can be tricky.

[ianmward]

Hi StickClip,

Unfortunately, in the CoC7e ruleset, effects are only implemented at the level of documenting who is affected, there is no underlying effect automation.

As you say, the game is usually more theatre of the mind and the effect automation could be very involved.

If you can suggest an easy way to define the different effects and their game modifiers, I can try to evaluate if it is possible to incorporate it in a future update.

[StickClip]

Hi ianmward,

Thanks for the response. Ok, thinking about this, here's what I'd think would work...CoC has lots modifiers that give either a penalty or bonus die.
I'd tie the names of these CoC modifiers to named effects with +/- bonus/penalty die. So let's say my character Fred had the spell Evil Eye cast on him (-1 penalty) and he was a
dipsomaniac in a bar and not drinking (another -1 penalty). Ideally the GM would be able to drag and drop these named effects onto the character, and his rolls would get these two penalty dice for rolls.

But here's a trick, I think you'd need to tie these bonuses/penalties to a flag if they're combat only only or not. Someone with a point-blank +1 modifier wouldn't get a bonus for say a Jump roll.

I'm thinking they'd work better as Fantasy Grounds effects and not modifiers, since you'd want them to persist round to round usually.

Right now the Modifier toggle in the bottom left of the screen (Elder Sign) adds a fixed number to a roll instead of bonuses/penalties. Fixing this to use bonus/penalties would be another good improvement. I can't think when I've ever added a fixed number to a roll.

I appreciate you considering these changes. Call of Cthulhu is the 2nd most popular TTRPG worldwide, so I think it'd be worth the effort. Keep up the good work - I'm new to FG but impressed so far.

[HeckoX]

Right now the Modifier toggle in the bottom left of the screen (Elder Sign) adds a fixed number to a roll instead of bonuses/penalties. Fixing this to use bonus/penalties would be another good improvement. I can't think when I've ever added a fixed number to a roll.
The buttons right next to the modifier does exactly what you've explained.
Clicking the buttons makes the next roll have either a:

+1Bonus die
+2Bonus die
+1Penalty die
+2Penalty die

[StickClip]

True true. Those buttons do give you the bonus die...works fine, as well as say roll20, maybe better.
But it's a pretty manual thing for the keeper. If you have a several PCs and bad guys, all with various bonuses/penalties, you have to manually apply them each round, and remember them.
What would be great, if Fantasy Grounds let the keeper assign persistent, named bonus/penalties on the combat tracker, that stuck with a character until the GM removed them. So for my example of someone suffering from a both a mania/evil eye, those effects would show up and automatically be calculated on rolls. That level of automation exists for Savage Worlds, and probably other game rules. The more grunt work Fantasy Grounds does for the GM, the more they can focus on descriptions and story.

Also, the current way FG ties their Modifiers to a fixed % number makes them pretty unusable for CoC in my opinion.

[ianmward]

The problem I see is making a system flexible enough to meet the different possible effects without making them apply when they should not (e.g. melee effects in ranged combat).

The effect syntax for 5e is very complex, we would need something similar to cover the different effects in the rules.

I'm not against this, but would want help in defining it and even then, it might be too much to implement, I'd have to see.

[StickClip]

Yep I agree that'd be the tricky part. Just my thoughts here...I think it'd make sense to have shared categories for both the game rolls and the effects, with each effect belonging to one to many categories. Each game roll would just have a single category I'd think. If the roll and effect share a category, the effect would kick in, otherwise not.

Categories I can think of (other keepers please chime in here)...

* Characteristic Rolls: STR, CON, etc.
* Skill Rolls, non combat: Jump, Cthulhu Mythos, Credit Rating, etc.
* Skill Rolls, Firearms/Ranged Combat
* Skill Rolls, Thrown Combat
* Skill Rolls, Melee Combat
* Other Rolls: Luck and sanity

For example, someone suffering from a Mania effect would suffer a penalty die for rolls from all the categories, so Mania would need to be mapped to all of them. Someone with the Aiming effect would get a bonus for Firearms/Ranged rolls only, so Aim would be linked to Firearms/Ranged.

[HeckoX]

While I personally get it, and would love to have more automation in the CoC rules (as both player and a keeper), I think it would require a pretty comprehensive change to not burden the keeper with having to drag and drop effects every single round and even turn.

I'll gladly assist in defining/spec'ing the effects, but like ianmward, I have concerns about implementation and additionally how much it might slow down gameplay, by adding another thing for the keeper to manage (adding/removing effects), instead of making the players responsible for keeping track of their own bonuses and penalties, as they are "applied". I will prolly start working on this later today.

[damned]

Im wondering if a checkbox (or 4) on the charsheet that will apply the bonus/penalty to all dice while ticked might assist the players without the coding challenge and potential Keeper load.

[HeckoX]

It would probably work as an interim, but considering that some penalties only apply to specific checks, a persistent checkbox offers very little advantage over simply clicking the button before a dice roll it applies to. I do, however, agree on the notion that certain effect should be triggered from actions performed by the player on the character sheet.

Things like being able to toggle if your next roll is a "reaction" (i.e. the in-combat dodge action or the fight back action) to automatically apply Outnumbered after your turn makes a lot of sense to me. The same with being able if the current firearms attack(s) is a burst, to get a penalty to all ranged attacks this turn, or using aim to get a bonus to the ranged attack.

[sedgetone]

Im wondering if a checkbox (or 4) on the charsheet that will apply the bonus/penalty to all dice while ticked might assist the players without the coding challenge and potential Keeper load.

I think this would be an awesome addition. So players can tick what action they’re going to take during the round. I did try using modifiers as labels for players early on with the 7E ruleset release. It worked okay for 2 players or 3 at a push, the problem comes at the end of the round and clearing down the actions taken. So tick boxes that clear down when the round is moved on would be cool.

Not wanting to sound like a broken record but I’d love to see some improvements to the vehicles and automation.

[HeckoX]

So the overall functionality needs to do this:
Sum the amount of bonuses and penalties for a roll based on buttons, effects, and checkmarks, then cap the result to -2/+2 if the result exceeds either. I.e. if the applied effects for a given roll was [+1, -1, -2, -2], the end result would be -4, capped to -2, so 2 penalty dies are applied.

List of effects
I've tried to generate a list of situations, where adding bonus/penalty dies is consistent - in CoC, most cases are "up to the keeper's discretion" after all:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KGzNjsH1KaMNdODC9w9-CP4FNLcymNbbhHrZEZ5JbBc/edit?usp=share_link

The list is a mix of solutions, but the four [ongoing ...] can also be added as effects with an expiry of never, which - in my opinion - would be an easier/better approach.
I can imagine having a checkbox to check for true, instead of simply an effect syntax, would require changes in core functionality. Having buttons to toggle (add/remove) the effect does the same, while keeping the effect syntax logic intact, and reducing the amount of variables in the code for where and how to check.

As I very likely have missed something, feel free to make comments/suggestions

[Nyarly Dude]

There's more if we look at Pulp. Among those that might come up frequently, there are pulp talents that grant an always-on bonus die to specific tests (e.g. "Keen Vision" affects all Spot Hidden rolls).

There's also the oddball effect, like how dual wielding significantly increases the fumble range.

[HeckoX]

That's a very good point. I'll ask a buddy of mine if I can borrow his pulp Cthulhu rulebook and will update the spreadsheet accordingly

(EDIT): The ones I figured made sense have been added

[StickClip]

Looks good! For the effects, would it make sense to add...
* Mania: 1 Penalty
* Loading 1 bullet and shooting: 1 Penalty
* Spell Effects causing Penalty: Evil Eye, Curse

[HeckoX]

Looks good! For the effects, would it make sense to add...
* Mania: 1 Penalty
* Loading 1 bullet and shooting: 1 Penalty
* Spell Effects causing Penalty: Evil Eye, Curse
Added Source of Mania as a suggested effect and update Phobia to Source of Phobia.
Reason for this being that I think being able to list the specific phobia/mania name(s) as an effect, without a mechanic attached to it, is important to just remember what the character is afflicted with. It's not until the investigator encounters the source of their phobia/mania that they actually get penalty dies (if I understood the rules correctly; I'm still fairly new at CoC)

Added Load Single & Fire to list

Added a few spell and monster abilities, but couldn't find anything about Curse. Can you direct me to a page in the KH where I can read more?

[StickClip]

Thanks for adding those. Yep, you've got it right for phobias/manias.
For Curse, it's in the Grand Grimoire.

[sedgetone]

Maybe the mini view could be expanded to be a modifier selector as well as attack abilities.

[StickClip]

The problem I see is making a system flexible enough to meet the different possible effects without making them apply when they should not (e.g. melee effects in ranged combat).

The effect syntax for 5e is very complex, we would need something similar to cover the different effects in the rules.

I'm not against this, but would want help in defining it and even then, it might be too much to implement, I'd have to see.


Hey, just wanted check on this and share my thoughts after running a few scenarios on Fantasy Grounds (I'm coming from a different vtt)...

* The big effect in CoC is sanity. Being able to track who has lost their marbles, and for how long, would be a big help.
* I'm thinking making effects interface handle in CoC like it does in other rpgs (DnD, Savage Worlds, etc.) would make it easiest for GMs switching rule systems.

thanks

[damned]

Sanity Loss and Insanity is automatically calculated.
If you lose your 20% in one session it is automatically recorded on your character sheet.
Not at my computer just now so cant share screen shots.

[StickClip]

Sorry, I didn't explain what I meant very well....
I was thinking it'd be great to be able to track the duration of a bout of madness in rounds, and possibly temp insanity in hours. That's something keepers have to do manually.
Yep, FG calculates the onset on insanity very well.

[HeckoX]

Sorry, I didn't explain what I meant very well....
I was thinking it'd be great to be able to track the duration of a bout of madness in rounds, and possibly temp insanity in hours. That's something keepers have to do manually.
Yep, FG calculates the onset on insanity very well.
Bout of Madness is already trackable. Just create an effect called Bout of Madness (or name it the specific madness), apply it to the investigator, and give it a duration in no. of rounds.
It will automatically count down each round and when it reaches 0, it's automatically removed.

Temp madness is technically also trackable, but requires a bit more setup.


Enable the calendar module (Module >> Calendars)
Double-click on the Gregorian calendar
Set the date
Install and enable the free extension: Clock Adjuster (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/574/view)


Then, like before, create an effect (called Temporary Insanity or similar), apply it the investigator, and give it a duration in no. of rounds which is = 600 * [no. of hours].
So for 4 hours, you'd set the effect to be 600*4 = 2400 rounds. The duration will automatically count down based on how much time has passed when using the Clock Adjuster to advance time.

Examples of both
56572

[StickClip]

Very cool! Thanks HeckoX. I'll set this up for my next game (would test it up now but I managed to mess up my character sheets).