FGU or Foundry for Pathfinder 2.0

[Plaindog]

Hi all

I am a very experienced FGU DM who have spent a lot of money on 5E books, maps, Forge items etc. Fantasy Grounds Unity runs in my veins and I truly love it when it comes to playing DnD 5E.

BUT

How good is it for playing Pathfinder second edition?

Are there any DM's here who have used both extensively who might answer this question?

What are the PRO's and CON's of playing Pathfinder second edition in either systems?
Which do you prefer and why?

I have a license for Foundry already but I wanted to get some insight from DM's who might have used both system before I start buying books somewhere. I am also a tech nerd so I' not afraid of learning new systems.

Hope someone can answer this. Thanks in advance :)

Best from Norway

[MaxAstro]

Personally, the thing that sold and continues to sell me on FGU for PF2e is the extensive and ever growing automation. FGU does so much for you, and it saves me and my players an incredible amount of time at the table. Having talked to people who have run PF1e with FGU, my understanding is that this level of automation is somewhat unique to the 2e module, and is in large part due to the work of people like Trenloe and Shaderaven.

Being able to resolve the entire effect of spells in just a couple clicks is something I really couldn't live without.

[Trenloe]

Personally, the thing that sold and continues to sell me on FGU for PF2e is the extensive and ever growing automation. FGU does so much for you, and it saves me and my players an incredible amount of time at the table. Having talked to people who have run PF1e with FGU, my understanding is that this level of automation is somewhat unique to the 2e module, and is in large part due to the work of people like Trenloe and Shaderaven.

Being able to resolve the entire effect of spells in just a couple clicks is something I really couldn't live without.
Thanks for the kind words. There'll be a lot more automation in Release 19 - a teaser video from early in the development cycle is available here: https://youtu.be/K3vomDTseB4 The activities functionality if probably a couple of weeks off going into test - I'll be using it for the first time in a gaming session this weekend as a final alpha test from my side.

[Bolorokenpay]

I Second what MaxAstro said. PF2E automation is very good. I would definitely recommend FGU to run it. Kind of funny, sometimes I will see some calculated number that I don't expect and I think I found a bug, then realize I forgot something or got a rule wrong. It will certainly keep you honest, lol.

[MegaWizardGuy]

Hello, new on the forums, where would I find more about the automation in PF2e? Or do you mean that once you set it up it is smoother?
Me and my friends are running an Outlaws of Alkenstar module, and I have to manually create a lot of the Inventor abilities even though we own the guns and gears book.

[MaxAstro]

My understanding is that the upcoming Release 19 is supposed to include prebuilt automation for a lot of those kinds of abilities, but "once you set it up it is smoother" is definitely true of the stuff that lacks prebuilt automation. Just the option to add automation is very powerful in terms of how long it takes to set up vs the time it saves.

Regardless, it has certainly been my impression that it is Trenloe's ultimate goal to have prebuilt automation for everything, eventually, which I greatly appreciate.

[esmdev]

An off the shelf comparison of automation is pretty easy, FGU has tons and Foundry has as little as possible. The thing to keep in mind is both of these were design decisions. Foundry wants you to have the DM and player tabletop experience no matter how difficult that makes it, while FGU wants you to have a tabletop experience with a side of computer game. Both designs are great for the people that want them. Myself, I've thus far found FGU an easier experience.

One thing that Foundry does that FGU doesn't is support the Gamemastery guide optional rules.

Foundry is a prettier base experience but not so much that I've cared that much. FGU is steadily moving forward in closing some of the gaps, I'm not sure the developers know what can be done without breaking a decade or more of backwards compatibility limitations. However they have shown some pretty neat features.

Some of the newer books are still not supported fully on FGU but that's just a matter of time. At the moment the big disadvantage for FGU is that Foundry seems to have picked Pathfinder2E as a major focus. They have internal, third party and community developers working on adventure paths and other things (tokens, sound effects, maps, etc.) but those things seem to add time as Roll20 already has Kingmaker up and released, FGU has it in testing, and Foundry is saying sometime this quarter maybe, hopefully, well see...

Anyways, I find most games that are supported on FGU to be easier to run.

[Atreides Ghola]

I've used both Foundry and FGU to run PF2nd pretty extensively.

While Foundry works well, there's a base design decision that only the owners of tokens are permitted to apply effects, damage, conditions, etc. to tokens during a game. This creates a forced stop point whenever there's an attack, a spell cast that does damage or imposes an effect/condition, or affects another actor in any way. Because of this, the GM is responsible for applying these to every actor affected (players can do damage to themselves and apply effects and conditions to themselves).

Additionally, Foundry only has an initiative tracker - it does show what effects are on a token, but there is no comprehensive way to manage encounters similar to the CT that FGU provides. After running the Beginner Box, and parts of Abomination Vaults in Foundry, I made the decision to move back to FGU for the amazing, comprehensive automation provided by the system. The CT in FGU and the simplicity and directness of its syntax allows you to manage encounters much more efficiently. It helps greatly that FGU has excellent documentation for the system as well. Foundry has next to none.

Personally, I find that asking questions about the system and getting help to be much easier for FGU (Thank you, Trenloe!). Trenloe is always responsive and helpful, something I can't say of the development community for PF2nd on Foundry.

In the end, I found Foundry to be somewhat prettier than FGU, but PF2nd in Fantasy Grounds is much more functional, and the automation is excellent. It is great to be able to purchase all of the available PF2nd content as well, and get all of the artwork, text, tokens, and more. Foundry has a very limited selection, and requires much, much more prep time to get into shape to run.

I spent about a year running PF2nd on Foundry after initially beginning with FGU. Moving back to FGU was the best decision I've made regarding PF2nd games - if you are a long time FGU GM, regarless of the system you've previously run, you will be right at home running PF2nd in FGU.

[Trenloe]

I've used both Foundry and FGU to run PF2nd pretty extensively.

...
Thanks for the comprehensive information. I've briefly looked at PF2 on Foundry, purely from a "professional" interest. I agree, it does look pretty; but I found it lacking in some areas - which your post highlights.

We've been working to try to make the FGU PF2 implementation easier to use, with Release 19 bringing a lot of new functionality with activities - both in terms of carrying out activities and reporting the results; which will hopefully make the game easier to play both from a player and GM perspective.

For example, here's a PC doing a grapple action. Their Athletics check is made vs. the target's fortitude DC and the result is reporting in the chat window - along with the relevant text for that result. And the relevant effect can be applied with the press of the "Apply All Effects" button. This is upcoming Release 19 functionality.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55672

Don't know what the Grabbed condition means? Double click on it in the Combat Tracker. This is current functionality.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55673

This double-click to see more information functionality is something I've put in a number of places - most notably the traits field of various records. Just double click on a trait field to see information about each trait. For example, want to know what all of those traits in a spell record mean?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55674

[MaxAstro]

Ooh, that Favorites button looks tasty. I almost wish we could have something like that for spells. For most classes it doesn't matter much, but Clerics and Druids with their giant spell lists - it would be nice to have some way to pare that down, without having to actually remove the spells from your sheet.

[esmdev]

I am really looking forward to the activities and some of my players are really looking forward to the tear out tabs + quickbar option. I don't think my players really comprehend just how cool the activity tab is going to be, but they will... they will! :)

[Plaindog]

Thank you for the answer everyone. As I said, I love FGU and have used it for a long time. How far into the future is the new update? My Pathfinder game is a bit into the future so I will keep an eye out for the changes.

I have some gameplay videos on Youtube if you want to check out my setup :) It's in 4K
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Mvm4Bchn_Ps&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE

[Trenloe]

Thank you for the answer everyone. As I said, I love FGU and have used it for a long time. How far into the future is the new update?
The first instance will be in test in a couple of weeks. Some more info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?75312-Pathfinder-2-Release-19-information-thread&p=672377&viewfull=1#post672377

[MaxAstro]

Timing wise it's sort of looking like R19 and Kingmaker are going to be out at the same time, and that's amazing for me. XD

[Trenloe]

Timing wise it's sort of looking like R19 and Kingmaker are going to be out at the same time, and that's amazing for me. XD
Release 19 will only be in the test channel initially, and probably a week or so after Kingmaker is released. There'll also be limitations on which activities are covered in testing - I'm aiming on most Core Rules data up to level 5 for the first round of testing.

[Milke]

We have Trenloe. So...

[Birger Tucholski]

i Remember the first Games. I start with RP with the release of Pf2 in Germany, only Online Rounds with Friends. Pf2 have some Rules that you can´t overview easylie. Fg Helps a lot. i Tryed Foundry but its not the same 4 me. I´m glad to find FG :-D

[MaxAstro]

Release 19 will only be in the test channel initially, and probably a week or so after Kingmaker is released. There'll also be limitations on which activities are covered in testing - I'm aiming on most Core Rules data up to level 5 for the first round of testing.

Will the initial release have the ability to add your own activities? That is definitely the feature I'm most excited about, since I end up tweaking/customizing the automation for a lot of things anyway.

[Trenloe]

Will the initial release have the ability to add your own activities? That is definitely the feature I'm most excited about, since I end up tweaking/customizing the automation for a lot of things anyway.
Yep. My design philosophy has always been to allow users to add their own stuff whenever possible, and that will be no different for activities.

[SweegyLeo]

Thanks for the kind words. There'll be a lot more automation in Release 19 - a teaser video from early in the development cycle is available here: https://youtu.be/K3vomDTseB4 The activities functionality if probably a couple of weeks off going into test - I'll be using it for the first time in a gaming session this weekend as a final alpha test from my side.

I'm very interested as well.
I'm looking to run a couple campaigns for our game group.
We have been playing 5e on fantasy grounds and Unity. We love it.
Our DM is retiring, and I'm taking over.
And we are planning some PF2e, especially with new Kingmaker out.

So my question 1.
We have JSON exports from pathbuilder.
What is the recommended converter, to FGU XML?

[Trenloe]

So my question 1.
We have JSON exports from pathbuilder.
What is the recommended converter, to FGU XML?
I don't know if there is a converter. The recommend approach is to re-create your PC in FG as this will also apply any automation that's available for the abilities, feats, features, etc..

[SweegyLeo]

Specifically, using the modules right?

Admittedly, having played under a DM with large catalogues of modules,
We fell in love with FG at its best.

I'm not there yet myself. Having just unlocked the DM license, and picked up the starter box to playtest PF2e with my game group.

I do see us getting there, especially for the player options.
I'd love to be able to build most of the AoNprd characters, inside FG.

That's my dream. (I did shudder a little bit at the price tag for the modules to pull that off...
Just a little bit.)

I'm currently looking at my gaming budget, trying to see, how to get the book modules.
Scheming.

But, life, kids. Fuel. Etc. It may take a MINUTE.

[Trenloe]

Specifically, using the modules right?
Yes. Some info on that here: https://youtu.be/MJ__B6UykZs?t=373

[Milke]

I have a lifetime membership to FGU and to Foundry. Every once in a while, I go back to see what Foundry is up to. But it still has too much of a learning curve for me. There's only a couple of things that Foundry does that Fantasy Grounds can't (yet?) do. And they're not a big enough deal to me to move entire games over.

[dsaraujo]

I'm actually running a trial of Foundry right now with my Rise of the Runelords campaigns. As a group, we decided to try a chapter on a different platform to experience pro and cons first hands. I had said in the past that I would only try Foundry once the Immunities, Resistances and Weaknesses automation was there, and they added that at the end of last year.

So far, it has been a mix for me, and generally positive for the players. Automation is definitely behind FG, and I miss concepts like the combat tracker and party sheet abstractions of FG. I also like the fact that the FG solution is pretty complete from the box, while I need several add-ons/modules to have a similar experience in Foundry.

At the end, the biggest difference for me is prep time, and not having an NPC Parser is a big gap for me there. If I was running a pre-published 2e adventure, I might have been a full convert at this point. Another great pro for FG is how stable it is. Foundry updates almost every time (because at least one of your add-ons will have an update) so things break easily. Developing for it is a nightmare due to that, even if the platform is way more modern in its development.

So, as a group we still haven't reached a verdict, but I can certainly tell that Foundry is much closer to FG today than it was a year ago, and the gap is closing.

[esmdev]

I'm actually running a trial of Foundry right now with my Rise of the Runelords campaigns. As a group, we decided to try a chapter on a different platform to experience pro and cons first hands. I had said in the past that I would only try Foundry once the Immunities, Resistances and Weaknesses automation was there, and they added that at the end of last year.

So far, it has been a mix for me, and generally positive for the players. Automation is definitely behind FG, and I miss concepts like the combat tracker and party sheet abstractions of FG. I also like the fact that the FG solution is pretty complete from the box, while I need several add-ons/modules to have a similar experience in Foundry.

At the end, the biggest difference for me is prep time, and not having an NPC Parser is a big gap for me there. If I was running a pre-published 2e adventure, I might have been a full convert at this point. Another great pro for FG is how stable it is. Foundry updates almost every time (because at least one of your add-ons will have an update) so things break easily. Developing for it is a nightmare due to that, even if the platform is way more modern in its development.

So, as a group we still haven't reached a verdict, but I can certainly tell that Foundry is much closer to FG today than it was a year ago, and the gap is closing.

I bought the snazzy Beginner Box and Abomination Vault on Foundry. The reaction of my players (Beginner Box) was OMG so pretty and birds chirping and harbor sounds. This was an otherwise unmodded game. We spent time figuring out the mechanics of token based vs. combat tracker and various other simple system differences. Once we were able to get into combat (like u pause the game!) things went pretty smooth, but it is an elf-ton more work for the GM.

There are likely modules and macros to automate the things that I had to do manually (like apply damage and such) whereas FGU just does most of that automatically without needing anything else. Just figuring out how to get Foundry to a similar level to FGU is a challenge with some modules current, some not. They only have discord which is nice for real-time but a real pain for historical information (compared to a forum, for instance).

In the end, despite having everything we needed on Foundry the general consensus was run Agents of Edgewatch (our current campaign) on FGU.