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Morfedel
December 31st, 2022, 21:27
So lately, I kickstarted Sebastian Crowe's Guide to Drakkenheim, and went back and purchased dungeons of Drakkenheim. I have recently fell in love with the setting, and am looking forward to the books. The second kickstarter also had a stretch goal that they hit that would provide VTT support.

For Foundry and Roll20.

I asked them about why FGU wasn't being included, and after a long conversation in which one of their number said they weren't entirely sure, but that it had something to do with difficulty working with FGU. I wasn't sure if they meant from a technological or personal standpoint, so myself and others kept asking for more information, and eventually were were told (by a third party that claimed had been privy to the conversation) that Smiteworks was wanting a rather high percentage of the profits, something like 60%, but that since the dungeon dudes were already splitting their profits with Ghostfire Gaming, as their partners and publishers, they just couldnt afford it.

Now, I will admit immediately that this was third party information, so I realize this information may not be accurate and, if so, I apologize in advance. But I wanted to say, if this IS true, I'm a little disturbed by that, and here is why:

Foundry is already seeming to be making some headway in claiming marketshare. I see lots of conversations of Foundry as a potential advantage over FGU and Roll20 already. IT would appear to be easier to develop for it, and I see a TON of third party and homebrew modules coming up right and left compared to FGU. Now, that being the case, I've spent a great deal of money over many years on FGU, so I though i was keeping an eye on things, I wasn't motivated to switch.

But now the Dungeon Dudes and Ghostfire Gaming are able to design official products for Foundry, and Roll20.... but not FGU. This makes me think that FGU is pricing themselves out of the market, so to speak. I will fully admit, I'm a bit sour over the idea that Smiteworks MAY have made it too expensive for the Dungeon Dudes and Ghostfire Gaming to do business with them, compared to their competitors, but it also makes me concerned that I'm invested in a piece of software that may not be able to remain competitive either.

So, I'm biding my time. Their VTT support isnt coming out until September 2023. But this DOES concern me, and I hope that there will be moves by Smiteworks to keep FGU competitive, and in the process make some wise business moves to keep third party people bringing products HERE as well as with Foundry and Roll20.

And with that, if my information was incorrect, please feel free to correct me and accept my apologies in advance.

LordEntrails
December 31st, 2022, 23:54
First, the 60% number is not true. Or at least in terms of Smiteworks "cut".

Second, Smiteworks doesn't do conversions to FG themselves for anyone except WotC (and them only some), they outsource to community contractors. This is simply because they have too much work. You can find more info on 3rd party conversions here: Publishers looking for conversions for Fantasy Grounds (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?67735-Publishers-looking-for-conversions-for-Fantasy-Grounds)

If Ghost Fire Gaming and Dungeon Dudes want to make their product available on FG, they can do so. It's not hard, but depending upon many things we don't know, they may have found it more challenging or expensive than it usually is.

I've done some "professional" conversions myself for third parties, and it's not hard or particularly time consuming. Depending upon how they approached it, I could see it being "expensive". I do know of some FG converting sources/organizations that at one time charged 50% of profit just for their conversion & marketing. If you add that to a FG Store percentage, it could be quite expensive. But, that is not the "normal" way a third party publisher would go about getting a conversion done (see link above).

But, they might decide it is not worth it for many different business reasons.

Moon Wizard
January 1st, 2023, 02:41
Those numbers are definitely not correct. The publisher can either self-publish through the Forge, or they can reach out to our Support team to get in contact with Doug to discuss terms for other options.

Regards,
JPG

Mytherus
January 1st, 2023, 05:38
I got the books for this as well from the kickstarter yet to find time to read through it all but so far it’s quality. My usual problem is there is currently no less than five campaign or rule sets I want to run. Finding the time to do so is the constant challenge, that’s why it takes me two years to run some campaigns I already bought.

bayne7400
January 1st, 2023, 14:27
Those numbers are not way off guys. SW takes 40 and the dev gets 15 if they go through the store. That leaves 45% for the game maker. If they do the conversion themselves then yeah they can save the dev compensation but most game guys can't do that.

For items converted on the forge that's between the dev and game maker. So I can say that some devs get more than 15%.

Also let's bring up one bookshelf. If they use FG to distribute their product they have to give up 5% when they sell on drive thru rpg. Drive thru gets game guys to lock in exclusive agreements for that extra 5%. So financially for many of the guys it is not worth.

Zarestia
January 1st, 2023, 15:27
This not about a new ruleset, this is about a D&D 5e adventure, Doug listed the converter % by 8-15% in the post linked by LordEntrails.
And honestly, pretty much everyone who can handle the MS Office suite should be able to enter an adventure in the reference builder with a bit of guidance, it's not that hard, but rather time-consuming.

bayne7400
January 1st, 2023, 15:32
For Foundry and Roll20.

I asked them about why FGU wasn't being included, and after a long conversation in which one of their number said they weren't entirely sure, but that it had something to do with difficulty working with FGU. I wasn't sure if they meant from a technological or personal standpoint, so myself and others kept asking for more information, and eventually were were told (by a third party that claimed had been privy to the conversation) that Smiteworks was wanting a rather high percentage of the profits, something like 60%, but that since the dungeon dudes were already splitting their profits with Ghostfire Gaming, as their partners and publishers, they just couldnt afford it.



I wanted to address the Foundry information separately. First Foundry takes a flat share of $1 or $2 if they host. If you use the DTRPG program its worse. If you use DTRPGs exclusive program you can no longer sell your products on FG or any digital platform. DTRPG takes 35% of your Foundry sale. Foundry Takes $2 for premium content. All that being said $~20 is the magic cut off. Below $20 FG takes less after you pay a creator 15% above more. You can develop on Foundry cheaper, if your Free League and can host your own files you make out very well but smaller game developers that are less well known cannot. I hope this helps you.

bayne7400
January 1st, 2023, 15:33
Right 15% leaves the game maker 45% after the SW cut. I'm not arguing it is what it is.

damned
January 1st, 2023, 22:36
Those numbers are not way off guys. SW takes 40 and the dev gets 15 if they go through the store. That leaves 45% for the game maker. If they do the conversion themselves then yeah they can save the dev compensation but most game guys can't do that.

For items converted on the forge that's between the dev and game maker. So I can say that some devs get more than 15%.

Also let's bring up one bookshelf. If they use FG to distribute their product they have to give up 5% when they sell on drive thru rpg. Drive thru gets game guys to lock in exclusive agreements for that extra 5%. So financially for many of the guys it is not worth.

If they already sell on their own website then they have already given up that extra 5%.
Selling on Drivethru they give up 35% by default and 40% if they sell elsewhere on top.
The platform % seems similar but that they are additionally paying someone to convert the product to this alternate format.

bayne7400
January 1st, 2023, 22:48
Yup. I am trying to say it is basically the same unless they are big enough to have their own website and sell their own products. I looked into this for some of the companies I work with. I have also spoken with several other game makers who did not want to put their ruleset on FG for various reasons. Id say less than half the time its money considerations. White Star did not get converted as an example of the DTRPG exclusive rights thing. When I speak with them I start off by telling them this is not going to be huge revenue for them but it will for sure help them sell more books, PDFs and give them additional exposure.

ddavison
January 2nd, 2023, 06:13
I don't recall ever having a discussion with the creator of this game regarding conversions. We pay royalties of 60% for sales on the FG Forge and on our most of the items in our storefront. For publishers who we agree to let do Kickstarters, we grant them an extra 10% royalty when they do their own distribution of unique keys. The publisher would either need to do the conversion on their own or we offer to help them try to find a community developer to do it for them. Those arrangements are always negotiated between the publisher and the community developer, but we recommend a 15% commission for the community dev to create it and provide support.

Primo
January 3rd, 2023, 06:31
That is a interesting adventure to convert. The setting itself is pretty cool, also.