FGU crashing EVERY time I try to run it on only one of my M1 Mac Minis

[Ezri Lell]

So, I have two M1 Mac mini computers in my game room. One uses a paid account, the other uses a free account. Typically, I run a game on my paid account and log into it on the free account so I can project the VTT onto my game table for players to see/use with minis, encourage planning, etc.

Periodically, the guest account machine would have some hiccup that would require me to delete FGU files, re-run the patcher, and then fire it up again. Usually after updates and so on.

Recently, however (about two weeks ago as of the time of this writing), I got a Mac OS update, and a FGU update, and since that day, the app crashes on this machine every time I try to open it.

I have used the usual tactic of deleting game files and re-patching, deleting the entire game, patcher and all, and reinstalling it from the web installer from the Smite Works site, doing disk checks, rebooting, shutting down and restarting, connecting to different networks, and everything else I can think of, but I still get a crash EVERY time I try to run the app.

The weird thing is, it is ONLY this computer. My GM station is using the same model of M1 Mac Mini, running the same OS update, and the same version of FGU, and it runs perfectly. My Intel MacBook runs it fine, my Windows machine runs it fine, My wife's Intel machine runs it fine, and all of my players who bring machines, or connect remotely all have it running fine, including at least one M1 MacBook Air on the same OS version.

It is ONLY this machine that is having the problem, and it has been happening for weeks, across multiple OS and FGU updates.

I'm at a loss, and at wit's end here.

Any assistance/ thoughts would be appreciated. I have included the crash report from apple as a txt attachment.

[LordEntrails]

Make sure you reboot your computer after you update FG. There is some issue with the new Mac o/s update that prevents some files from being updated/cleared until you reboot.

Not sure this is your issue, but timing matches.

[Ulric]

Any assistance/ thoughts would be appreciated. I have included the crash report from apple as a txt attachment.
I discovered the reboot solution. I play FG on several Intel and M1 Macs. There is an issue with M1 Macs crashing when FG has a particular type of update, ruleset and extension updates don't cause a problem. The problem seems to be caused by "Rossetta 2" not clearing FG cache after updating. When you reboot and run FG Rossetta creates a new cache. Unfortunately, the cache is in a protected system area that can not be reset by a Dev or User.

[Ezri Lell]

Thank you all for responding. Much appreciated.

So, I just tried removing game files, and re-patching (to ensure the patcher had something to do), then restarting the computer once the patcher had finished.

I tried the above in all of the following sequences and am still getting the same crash:
Patch>restart>close patcher>Run FGU directly
Patch>restart>Run FGU via patcher button
Patch>close patcher>restart>Run FGU directly
Patch>close patcher>restart>Launch patcher but don't patch>Run FGU via patcher button

Any other thoughts?

[Ulric]

You may find temporarily unlocking your secure system files and downloading the FG installer and reinstall FG using the downloaded installer my fix your problem. After you have reinstalled and everything is working you can lock your secure system files. This fixed a FG problem for me. I could not start the FG updater app from the FG main menu. I would click the update button and FG would close but the Updater app would never open. After unlocking and reinstalling and then relocking my system files the FGupdater app starts correctly. I followed the instruction located here https://iboysoft.com/news/uninstall-rosetta-2.html except the part about uninstalling Rosetta 2. Don't follow my instructions without care and understand I make no guarantees you will not messing thing up. I also backed up my FG campaigns and assets before doing the reinstall just to be safe. Please post a response if it does or does not fix your problem.

[spoonhead]

You may find temporarily unlocking your secure system files and downloading the FG installer and reinstall FG using the downloaded installer my fix your problem. After you have reinstalled and everything is working you can lock your secure system files. This fixed a FG problem for me. I could not start the FG updater app from the FG main menu. I would click the update button and FG would close but the Updater app would never open. After unlocking and reinstalling and then relocking my system files the FGupdater app starts correctly. I followed the instruction located here https://iboysoft.com/news/uninstall-rosetta-2.html except the part about uninstalling Rosetta 2. Don't follow my instructions without care and understand I make no guarantees you will not messing thing up. I also backed up my FG campaigns and assets before doing the reinstall just to be safe. Please post a response if it does or does not fix your problem.

I’m getting this problem, but I’m still on an intel Mac. Have tried rebooting, but it still happens. If I run the updater directly, it works OK.

[Ulric]

Interesting, I only play on M1 Macs but when I played on Intel I never encountered that issue. It is still probably related to file security permissions.

[Ezri Lell]

You may find temporarily unlocking your secure system files and downloading the FG installer and reinstall FG using the downloaded installer my fix your problem. After you have reinstalled and everything is working you can lock your secure system files. This fixed a FG problem for me. I could not start the FG updater app from the FG main menu. I would click the update button and FG would close but the Updater app would never open. After unlocking and reinstalling and then relocking my system files the FGupdater app starts correctly. I followed the instruction located here https://iboysoft.com/news/uninstall-rosetta-2.html except the part about uninstalling Rosetta 2. Don't follow my instructions without care and understand I make no guarantees you will not messing thing up. I also backed up my FG campaigns and assets before doing the reinstall just to be safe. Please post a response if it does or does not fix your problem.

Okay,

Sorry this took a minute, been hectic here.

So, I did as suggested, unlocked the file system, restarted, removed the app and the user files associated with the app, downloaded the web installer again and installed the game, re-patched back up to current, and..... same issue.

Next, I logged into a different user on the same computer and found I was unable to patch the game up due to lack of admin access, but saw it was already on 4.1.1 anyway, so I logged in using the same user/account that I use normally on that computer, and it worked just fine.

So it seems that whatever is wrong, is not actually in the game files, but something about the user profile on that computer and its interaction with the game files.
I have noticed that in all the uninstalling/reinstalling of the game, I have never had to log in again. It's just had my credentials in there already, so I assume that is being kept in one of the system library files somewhere, yes? Does anyone have a line on how to go delete that config/lib file? Perhaps just flush out whatever is in there and force it to log in again fresh?

[Ulric]

There is a Finder and select "GO" from the Finder menu bar. With the GO menu open press and hold the option key to reveal the "Library" selection and click that location to go to. You can look in the the "Preferences" folder and search for "smiteworks" to locate the PList files for the FG engine and Updater. These are just suggestions and not a recommendations because in my opinion it is this is "DANGER ZONE" activity. You do not want to delete or change the wrong files. I would at a minimum compare the files located here to the same files in the other "User" folder thats runs FG without any problems. There is also a "Crash" folder you can look at for insight to your problem. I hope this helps you!

[Trenloe]

Perhaps just flush out whatever is in there and force it to log in again fresh?
From the main FG launch screen click the "Settings" button, then go to the "Troubleshoot" tab of the FGUpdateEngine window and click "Clear Settings".

[Ezri Lell]

Okay,

So, I went to Settings>Troubleshooting and used the clear settings button. Confirmed and restarted the app. Logged in again using same credentials and got the same crash.

Next I went to HDD\Library\Preferences and just deleted the smite works directory there. Reinstalled the app from web download, patched, and got the same crash.

Other thoughts?

[Trenloe]

I doubt changing your FG username/password will help with a crash. I'm confused as to what point you're at - in post #8 you say there was a scenario where it worked OK? Can you expand on what got it working in post #8?

[Ezri Lell]

I doubt changing your FG username/password will help with a crash. I'm confused as to what point you're at - in post #8 you say there was a scenario where it worked OK? Can you expand on what got it working in post #8?

Yeah, it works when I log into the Mac as a different user, but when I log in as my normal user I get the crash every time, even after the above mitigation attempts.

[Trenloe]

Yeah, it works when I log into the Mac as a different user, but when I log in as my normal user I get the crash every time, even after the above mitigation attempts.
Compare the access rights of the two users to /Applications/SmiteWorks (and sub directories and files) and also compare the data directories /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds

[Ezri Lell]

Compare the access rights of the two users to /Applications/SmiteWorks (and sub directories and files) and also compare the data directories /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds

The user account that is producing the crash is an admin on the computer, while the account that seems to be able to run it is not (in fact, that account can't even patch the game as it doesn't have write access to the folder the game is in).

I'm confused about what I should be 'comparing' in the data directories. I have deleted that directory multiple times in troubleshooting this, and I am using a demo version of the game on this computer so there are no purchases, no custom settings, no additional content, nothing but the base game as-delivered by the FGU patcher.

[wframe]

For what it's worth, I run FGU on both a PC and an M1 Mac. After the last major update, I had this crashing issue on my Mac as well. The only way I could fix it was to completely uninstall and reinstall the client from scratch. I have had this happen before on my M1 as well.

If you haven't already done so, try that. You don't lose your data. You will probably have to nuke the install folder completely, though.

[Ezri Lell]

For what it's worth, I run FGU on both a PC and an M1 Mac. After the last major update, I had this crashing issue on my Mac as well. The only way I could fix it was to completely uninstall and reinstall the client from scratch. I have had this happen before on my M1 as well.

If you haven't already done so, try that. You don't lose your data. You will probably have to nuke the install folder completely, though.


It has been an occasional occurrence where the game would patch and then not be able to open.
On those occasions, deleting the game files and re-running the patcher to re-acquire them has always fixed the problem.

In tis case, that has not rectified the issue.

As mentioned previously in this thread, I have completely removed and reinstalled the game from the web download installer multiple times, and the issue persists.

The game was running fine on this machine, on this user account, one day, and the next day this problem cropped up and has persisted since.

To summarize this thread up to this point:
I've removed game files (both those in the applications folder AND those in the user folder, both separately, and together) and re-patced to replace them multiple times.
I've removed the entire game and re-installed it from the web installer multiple times.
I've cleared the settings from the patcher 'troubleshooting' tab.
I've deleted the SmiteWorks folder from the preferences folder in the library directory.
I've disabled disk protection, uninstalled and reinstalled the game.

The game seems to run fine on the same machine, on a different user profile/account using the same FG user account that does NOT work on the main user profile/account on the same machine.

I am running the same version of FGU on a second M1 Mac mini just fine. It runs on my intel-based MacBook Pro, and on multiple intel-based windows machines in the household. Additionally, it is running fine on all the windows boxes, and another M1 based MacBook Air that players bring to the table.

It is literally only this user profile, on this specific M1 Mac that is having this issue.
It was running fine on Monday, then on Tuesday I updated the OS and FGU and it stopped working.
I updated the other M1 Mac mini in the room to the SAME OS update and the SAME FGU update at the SAME time, and that machine runs it just fine.

[Trenloe]

If it works for one user but not for another then it's more than likely user file access rights that are causing the issue.

FG uses two directory structures - one for the application files: /Applications/SmiteWorks and one for the data (campaigns, modules, extensions, rulesets, etc.): /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds

This is checking at the operating system file level and comparing the access rights of the two different users to the files/directories in these two areas that FG uses might help point towards what is causing the issue. Some information on checking file permissions here: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2021/01/20/manage-file-and-folder-permissions-mac/ You may find it easier to type ls -l from a terminal while within the relevant directories to see a list of the permissions for all files.

You might also wish to try creating another admin user and seeing if that works OK, or not.

[Ezri Lell]

If it works for one user but not for another then it's more than likely user file access rights that are causing the issue.

FG uses two directory structures - one for the application files: /Applications/SmiteWorks and one for the data (campaigns, modules, extensions, rulesets, etc.): /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds

This is checking at the operating system file level and comparing the access rights of the two different users to the files/directories in these two areas that FG uses might help point towards what is causing the issue. Some information on checking file permissions here: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2021/01/20/manage-file-and-folder-permissions-mac/ You may find it easier to type ls -l from a terminal while within the relevant directories to see a list of the permissions for all files.

You might also wish to try creating another admin user and seeing if that works OK, or not.

Okay....

While I am a little confused about how the user account could have any permissions MORE conducive to an app running than an admin account, AND the fact that I've already stated that I can't even run the updater/patcher while logged in as the user because it doesn't have write access to the applications folder, I have checked as suggested.

The file permissions within the data directory for each user appear to be identical, while the permissions within the app directory are read only for the user that CAN run the app and read/write for the admin user that CAN'T.

[Trenloe]

While I am a little confused about how the user account could have any permissions MORE conducive to an app running than an admin account, AND the fact that I've already stated that I can't even run the updater/patcher while logged in as the user because it doesn't have write access to the applications folder, I have checked as suggested.

The file permissions within the data directory for each user appear to be identical, while the permissions within the app directory are read only for the user that CAN run the app and read/write for the admin user that CAN'T.
Rights can get changed - even for an admin user, so it's still worth checking just to be 100% sure that there's no specific differences. So thanks for checking.

Have you tried creating another admin user and seeing if that works OK?

[Moon Wizard]

As Trenloe mentioned, it seems like a permissioning issue, especially since it's a single user on a single machine. It sounds like it might be some sort of issue with accessing permissions to a specific User folder by a different user account. In general, FG is designed to be run by a single user per computer, so any other configuration may not work.

If you need to run multiple users against the same FG data folder, then you'll either need to grant permissions to the folder to be accessible by "any" user; or move the FG data folder to a location that is accessible by all users (which again would require setting a new folder to be accessible by "any" user).

Or, I would recommend renaming the FG data folder; and just uninstall and reinstall with only the account you will be playing with.
(i.e. /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds -> /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds_backup)

Regards,
JPG

[Ezri Lell]

Alright....

Creating a new admin user I am able to run the game from the applications folder, no problem. So this is definitely something to do with the user account on which the game was originally/initially (and many times subsequently) installed.

As a point of order, I am not trying to do anything complex, crazy, or untoward with this setup. I have only ever run FG from this one user account on the computer, using this one FG account. This is a computer that logs into my games that I run on the OTHER Mac mini in the room (which is running FGU just fine). I only even tried to run it from another computer user account because I was trying to narrow down the scope of this issue.

So, to be clear, all I am trying to do here, is get a base install of FG to run on this computer, on which it ran perfectly fine as soon as three weeks ago, until I encountered this issue. There is nothing else installed on this computer except Discord. I literally use it exclusively for projecting FGU onto a table surface, and connecting to a video chat in Discord. It doesn't run any other apps, do any other tasks, have any other software installed on it, or even have any other users log into it.

I initially set it up with the intent of different GMs that use my setup having their own user profiles on the computer, since my kids are running their own games now too, but that never came to fruition and I am the only one using it.

So this setup could not be more simple. Out of box computer with two non-pre-installed apps on it, that only ever runs those two apps.

Three weeks ago, this app worked fine. I took an OS update and a game update one day, and since that day, this user has not been able to run FG.

No weird account sharing, or profile switching, or multiple people using the same app install, or anything even remotely like that.

This installation doesn't even HOST games. It doesn't have a FG license. It doesn't have any content on it that is not delivered by the host machine. It is literally a blank slate, almost a dumb terminal.

Honestly, I'm not even sure why I need to defend such a stance if it WERE the case, but it isn't.

[Ezri Lell]

So, I just did an OS repair/reinstall (non-destructive), to see if that would correct any potential issues with security or permissions settings on that user account, but the problem persists.

At this point I may just wipe the hdd and reinstall macOS from scratch. Unless there any other thoughts on how to correct this?

[Moon Wizard]

I don't think there's any question that you need to defend any position or stance.

From our company side, there is only one Mac build that is used for all Mac users; that build is provided to all users; and it's generated using Unity game engine for multiple platforms. At this time, we don't have any other reports of Mac users seeing similar issues; and it only affects one computer on one account. Additionally, we don't have any expertise on Mac system-level issues in-house, let alone someone that could diagnose such an unusual scenario.

While we are trying to guess at what might be the issue with your machine, this is something that is outside of the FG application causing it not to run, and not a general problem with the application. So, we don't really know why exactly the issue is occurring, or what might be the problem. The fact that it only happens with one account on one machine leads me to believe that it is still a permission/firewall/security program kind of issue; but that's a hypothesis based on the information you've provided.

This sounds like something that someone specialized in Mac systems might be able to help with, given the unique nature of your setup.

Regards,
JPG

[Ezri Lell]

Apologies for being defensive. It just seems like every time I ask a question about the program behaving strangely, either here or in discord, the main thing I get back from multiple directions is an admonishment about how I'm misusing the program. I know I have a unique use of the tool in my home, but it is by no means any different than a typical host machine accepting multiple connections for a game. Just, one of those machines (the one having this issue) is setup to project the game table onto my.... well... game table. That way we can still use minis for those still present, but include those who are remote...

I fully understand the reality of a small, passionate team working on a passion project and not having the time and deep expertise in related systems needed to do deep troubleshooting. As I said, there is basically nothing of import on this machine so flatlining it and rebuilding it costs nothing but time. I was just hopeful that I could avoid that expense, of course.

Before I do flatline the machine though, I have passed the crash log along to some coworkers who bend macOS and iOS to their wills to see if they can identify the issue. I don't have any games scheduled until after the US holiday this week, so I'll give them a chance to poke at it before I reformat the box.

If they do come up with anything useful, I'll add it to this thread for posterity. If they don't, I'll flatline it and report back (hopefully) that doing so resolved the issue.

Thank you all for your time.

[Trenloe]

Apologies for being defensive. It just seems like every time I ask a question about the program behaving strangely, either here or in discord, the main thing I get back from multiple directions is an admonishment about how I'm misusing the program.
Interesting you mention "here" (being the FG forums) in this statement - re-reading this thread (which as far as I can see is your only interaction on these forums) I can't see where anyone is admonishing you or suggesting you're misusing the program - everyone in this thread has been trying to help you. I have no experience with your interactions on Discord, so I can't comment on that. Comments in this thread suggesting that there's something up with access rights is purely based on the symptoms you describe, no one is suggesting that's due to you misusing the program, things like this happen occasionally to anyone.

[Ezri Lell]

Everyone has been more than helpful. Looking back through the thread, you're absolutely right, of course. No actual suggestions of improper use.

It was this line from Moon Wizard that got me feeling self-conscious, as it was a discussion about multiple users/accounts on a single machine that got people telling me I was misusing the software/license on Discord:

... In general, FG is designed to be run by a single user per computer, so any other configuration may not work...

Re-reading it, I know that was not the intent of the statement but I've been kind of reticent to share technical issues in either forum since I got jumped over there a long while back.

So, my apologies to those present if I offended. T'was not my intention.

I truly appreciate the assistance and I will update here whether I find a solution, or just end up reformatting the box.

Thank you.

[Trenloe]

So, my apologies to those present if I offended. T'was not my intention
It's very easy to take the written word on forums like these the wrong way - you're usually dealing with people you don't know and so it's difficult to judge intent sometimes. I certainly wasn't offended; I was more concerned that you had a bad feeling in your mouth about the communication in this thread and had taken it the wrong way. All good here! :)

[Ezri Lell]

Okay,

First off, I blew out the computer and set it up fresh again from scratch. Reinstalled discord and FG and everything seems to be fine now. So, the problem is resolved.

As to root cause... I ran the crash log by some coworkers and friends and, while I didn't get a ton more information from them, I did get some that I'll post here just in case it can be of help to anyone who knows stuff. lol

----------
It appears to be failing immediately on startup trying to load a metal texture file.
It’s most likely that texture file is some object reference in the game, either in memory as part of the game binary or an actual file it had at some point.
Hard to guess from just the non-symbolicated crash report.
It fails to validate a metal texture descriptor and then it self destructs. (Throws exceptions and dies)

You’re probably right and it’s some weird permissions thing.
Maybe on a file that normally is in some external directory hidden somewhere upon install. So it’s getting left behind when you remove and reinstall it.
It does sound that either a permission wound up wrong or a file that is in preferences for the app (which can persist across installs) got corrupted.
----------

Thanks again for the support and attempts to fix from the group here. I greatly appreciate your time and efforts.

[Moon Wizard]

Ah, that tickles a memory from a while back, where specific very large Mac display parameters would cause the Unity game engine to bail on initial startup due to the texture request being too large. I'm not sure what causes it, and it's something in the core game engine (i.e. Unity) vs. any code we wrote. It's driven by a parameter in the Unity game engine specific preference file. In the 2 cases we saw it happen, it was when using an external monitor. When we found it before, we had the full logs posted from the FG Updater, so it didn't spark that memory right away. Blowing away the Unity game engine preference file fixed it in those other scenarios.

I'm not sure if that was the exact issue without seeing the Unity game engine logs.

Just for future consideration, if it comes up again, the Unity game engine stores relevant data in these locations:
* Logs - ~/Library/Logs/SmiteWorks/Fantasy Grounds/Player.log (Also, Player-prev.log)
* Preferences - ~/Library/Preferences/com.SmiteWorks.FantasyGrounds.plist

Sorry I didn't think of that earlier, but the single user symptom threw me off and I didn't think of it.

Regards,
JPG

[Ezri Lell]

Ah, that tickles a memory from a while back, where specific very large Mac display parameters would cause the Unity game engine to bail on initial startup due to the texture request being too large. I'm not sure what causes it, and it's something in the core game engine (i.e. Unity) vs. any code we wrote. It's driven by a parameter in the Unity game engine specific preference file. In the 2 cases we saw it happen, it was when using an external monitor. When we found it before, we had the full logs posted from the FG Updater, so it didn't spark that memory right away. Blowing away the Unity game engine preference file fixed it in those other scenarios.

I'm not sure if that was the exact issue without seeing the Unity game engine logs.

Just for future consideration, if it comes up again, the Unity game engine stores relevant data in these locations:
* Logs - ~/Library/Logs/SmiteWorks/Fantasy Grounds/Player.log (Also, Player-prev.log)
* Preferences - ~/Library/Preferences/com.SmiteWorks.FantasyGrounds.plist

Sorry I didn't think of that earlier, but the single user symptom threw me off and I didn't think of it.

Regards,
JPG

Okay, that is interesting to know. So, here is some more potentially relevant info then, now that we know about large external displays...
This computer is plugged into a 1080p TV AND a 4k LCD projector. I use the projector and a mirror on the ceiling to put the large display on the table surface for gaming with minis.

Prior to the OS update that projector display resolution was set to 4k, but after updating to Ventura, the OS dropped it back to 2k and I just left it.
Having the projector set at 4k required me to force the OS to display more than the suggested resolutions (just a click in display properties, nothing too offensive, but definitely forcing it outside its comfort zone). Since I used FG on that display and maximized it, it would be set to more than double the resolution of the TV display and double what it was before the OS update.

Too late now, but knowing the above details, I wonder if just setting that display back to 4k resolution would have fixed the problem.

Whatever the case, it's good to know where the logs and additional prefs are located. I did remove/delete the smite works folder from the preferences directory at one point, but did not get the plist file from teh same lower directory while I was there. That may also have been the proverbial straw.

[rhagelstrom]

The crashing that has persisted on FG binary update on M1 Mac has seemed to been resolved with test. I didn't see a release note on this but whatever you guys did I like it

[Basiliv]

For anyone else running across this thread, the step by step fix that worked for us is here:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?74653-FGU-on-Mac-crashes-upon-launch-Monterey-and-Intel