RM Spell mangement Help

[Engelmann]

This post is more related to the RM rules than to FGU.

I'm so confused about the development and use of spell that I need your help.

I'm struggling to understand how, once you have gain a part of a list of spells (lets say the 10 first levels), what happened then?
- in the Spell list part
- in the Skill list part

How do I cast a non targetting spell that I'm able to (level and PP) ?
What is the "Base attack spell" there for ?

Lets take a concrete example. There is a level 3 cleric with 20 PP.
He just put 8 Dev Points in the List "Channels" and managed to obtain the 10 first levels of the list (If I understood it well). What happened then ?

How does he cast the level 3 spell "Stunning": Stuns a target ? Based on what Skill ?

He also had the list "Communal Ways" and cast the level 1 spell "Guess". What skill do I use ?

Thanks for your help.

[Sulimo]

I'm struggling to understand how, once you have gain a part of a list of spells (lets say the 10 first levels), what happened then?
- in the Spell list part
- in the Skill list part


The character then learns the spells up to the level of the pick (in your example is 10 spells).
The skill is then reset, and the character can then start to try to learn another list or more on the same list.



How do I cast a non targetting spell that I'm able to (level and PP) ?
What is the "Base attack spell" there for ?


PPs are the level of the spell, so a level 3 spell is 3 PPs, while a level 18 spell is 18 PPs.

For Base Attack Spell see below.




Lets take a concrete example. There is a level 3 cleric with 20 PP.
He just put 8 Dev Points in the List "Channels" and managed to obtain the 10 first levels of the list (If I understood it well). What happened then ?

Then the cleric can cast any of the spells on the Channels list up to their level (3), but they know the spells up to 10, so as they level they gain the ability to cast the higher level spells, up to the level they have learned.

There is the ability to overcast higher level spells, however, it is dangerous and requires an automatic Extraordinary Spell Failure roll before it is successfully cast. See Option 10.4 (in section 3.8) of Spell Law.




How does he cast the level 3 spell "Stunning": Stuns a target ? Based on what Skill ?

See Section 4.0 (basic casting), 4.1 (non-attack spell casting), and 4.2 (attack spell casting) of Spell Law for details.

Basically a spell uses a D100 plus any modifiers..

See the tables here for the attack table and modifiers.
https://i.imgur.com/dhIuhTcl.png



He also had the list "Communal Ways" and cast the level 1 spell "Guess". What skill do I use ?



It's really the same skill. In older versions of RM it was called Base Spells, and the skill itself could not be developed, it was just your Stat bonus (for the realm) and any level bonuses and that was it. I'm not seeing it called out specifically in RMC, but I only did a quick look, and I could have missed it.

[Engelmann]

Yeah !!!!! I got it. I was tying to make things more complicated as they are.
Many thanks for your help.

[Rainbird]

Sulimo has covered all of the Rolemaster rules for Spells and Base Spells but in FGU the Base Spell Attack is slightly different to nearly all the other skills (Ambush is another one that doesn't follow the general rules).

Take a look at the videos in the Forum sticky. One of them (rolling up a Mage if my memory serves me) shows you how to create the Base Attack Skill (as it's not in the skills list) and how this links to the combat tracker.

Regards - Rainbird

[Engelmann]

Hi,
Here I am again.
I just wanted a confirmation.
IN FGU, when a caster uses a spell, the PP aren't automagically subtracted from the amount of remaining PP ?
It would have been cool to add all spells that could be launched by a caster to the combat section (or separate one) to be used and subtracted from de current PP amount.
Thanks

[Rainbird]

Hi,
Here I am again.
I just wanted a confirmation.
IN FGU, when a caster uses a spell, the PP aren't automagically subtracted from the amount of remaining PP ?
It would have been cool to add all spells that could be launched by a caster to the combat section (or separate one) to be used and subtracted from de current PP amount.
Thanks

Yes, that's correct. PP (and Adders) need manual adjustment by the PC/GM.

Personally, I'd rather not have another 'tracker' for something as simple as PPs. Gawd knows how long that would take Dakadin to do...

My 2p worth.

Rainbird

[Engelmann]

Yes, that's correct. PP (and Adders) need manual adjustment by the PC/GM.

Personally, I'd rather not have another 'tracker' for something as simple as PPs. Gawd knows how long that would take Dakadin to do...

My 2p worth.

Rainbird

Thanks for your answer.
Regards

[RajekPlathmos]

Another reason to handle PPs manually is that there are optional rules that allow a spellcaster to put more PPs into the spell than the level itself. Because of this kind of flexibility (which I totally love) the automation would blow up in size and complexity.

We don't want Dakadin to pop a fuse before he finishes his spit and polish job on the current version, right? :);)

Regards,
Rajek

[JohnD]

Another reason to handle PPs manually is that there are optional rules that allow a spellcaster to put more PPs into the spell than the level itself. Because of this kind of flexibility (which I totally love) the automation would blow up in size and complexity.

Interesting ... could you share these optional rules or say where they are located. I quite like the sound of that.

[Sulimo]

Interesting ... could you share these optional rules or say where they are located. I quite like the sound of that.

EDIT: Never mind, I was thinking overcasting higher level spells. I am not aware of using extra Power Points to case a spell, might be from one of the companions.

I do see undercasting (using fewer PPs for a spell than usually required), in RoCo IV.

It's in Spell Law Section 3.8, it's option 10.4, page 35 of the PDF if you have that.

https://i.imgur.com/Y2eIse7.png

[QuirkyBirky]

Option 3.1 in RMC Spell Law (bound to be in one of the RM2 companions, but don't ask me where).

Basically the spell efficacy becomes based on the number of PPs used rather than the level of the caster. If this is combined with the ESF overcasting rules then a first level caster could throw 4 PPs at a first level spell and cast it as if they were level four (gambling with the ESF modifier on their casting roll!). Has implications for ranges, durations, resistance rolls and much more besides. I try to encourage the use of ESF in my game for these sorts of shenanigans but my players are far too cautious.

[YAKO SOMEDAKY]

I don't remember, but I believe that the spell rolls are being changed by Dakadin... now we can scroll the spell list, but the interesting thing is to roll the spell I saw in their description in the table is (none).
By allowing spell scrolling, in addition to making the game more fluid, it allows a window to open asking if you are going to use PP or Spell Adder with the Minimum Cost of the Level of the spell performed, with that the Power Points or Spell Adders could be spent automatically and the ability to bind the spell to a table would help with the Resolution Table, but of course that's a guess....
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[RajekPlathmos]

In the physical Spell Law, Section 10.1 has these options. I can't find them in the RMC Spell Law. Here is a snapshot of the actual physical page from Spell Law...

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Rajek

[RajekPlathmos]

Found it in RMC Spell Law. It's in Option 3.2...

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Rajek

[JohnD]

I wonder how something like this would work....

Caster must expend 1 PP / spell level as usual.
In lieu of rounds spent preparing to cast (and being a by-stander that whole time... unfun...), caster can expend an equivalent number of PP to forego one round of preparation. No adjustment to efficacy or level of spell cast this way, still subject to the usual rolls.

So instead of spending 3 rounds of prep time to cast Sleep V, caster can put 4 PP into it and cast the same round.
Similar scenario trying to cast a 2nd level spell would cost the 2 PP but instead of spending 3 rounds of prep, caster could put an extra 6 PP into it.

Has anyone ever tried this? Perhaps a counter would be that you must always spend the initial round casting, so you could never reduce the prep time to less than 1 round.

[QuirkyBirky]

Reduced prep is generally handled with ESF modifiers, if you use those rules. Personally I'd see PPs being directly related to the potency of the spell rather than your ability to cast it, quickly or not, though I suppose the undercasting rule might suggest otherwise. I guess it all depends how you see magic working in your game, so if it feels right then go for it.

[Rainbird]

I don't remember, but I believe that the spell rolls are being changed by Dakadin... now we can scroll the spell list, but the interesting thing is to roll the spell I saw in their description in the table is (none).
By allowing spell scrolling, in addition to making the game more fluid, it allows a window to open asking if you are going to use PP or Spell Adder with the Minimum Cost of the Level of the spell performed, with that the Power Points or Spell Adders could be spent automatically and the ability to bind the spell to a table would help with the Resolution Table, but of course that's a guess....
56046

Thanks for point this out, I missed that function/roll option.

I'm not sure what is gained by being able to roll from the top of the Spell List (looks like you can't roll each spell...?) as casting (which isn't a BAR or a EAR) only requires a roll without a result =/< 2 which you can do from the the chat window. Does it open the ESF table?

@ JohnD - I've used the sliding scale of PP for EARs (I think it's in RM Companion I) and found that, for higher level characters (>Lvl 15), it started to unbalance the game. Even with the ESF it turned the Mage into a tactical nuke. If I were to use in my current MERP game I'd house rule that each multiple of PPs (6 to 12 for example) would require (depending on your INIT system) another 150 APs or another round of prep.

Regards - Rainbird

[YAKO SOMEDAKY]

Rainbird, Magic users are true machines of mass destruction, when they manage to evolve a little, but I understand that in a MERP is very appealing. And when I think about adjustments and automations, they are to speed up and make everyone's life easier and to have the results without having to look all the time in books or references in the FG.