Bulk add NPC tokens to a map

[RedBrother]

While preparing an encounter how to I quickly add a lot of NPCs to a map?

There are too many to drag and drop each one.

(Important note: I don't want them in the combat tracker for the moment, I only want to prepare multiple encounters in advance).

See attached screen shot below.

54524

[LordEntrails]

The only way to mass add tokens is from teh CT using the faction icons. But you said you don't want them on the CT. So...

Don't.

Use mass combat rules and turn them into swarms. With that many tokens you will have all sorts of problems, LOS, targeting, CT tracking, performance, etc.

If you still feel you want them all as individuals and you want them all in one encounter you will have to drag them individually onto the map. No shortcut.

[RedBrother]

This is for preparing multiple encounters in advance. So they can't all be in the CT at the same time.

As an aside: If NPCs are added to the map from the CT, then removed, then the carefully laid out positions are also deleted. Which doesn't make sense, why not keep the last valid map position, even if you delete the token from CT. This would also solve the bulk add issue.

The limited D&D 5e rules for swarms don't make sense for larger creatures (e.g. Occupy other creature's space). Yes we could use a completely different game system, but the effort to learn a new game for one encounter rules out that option.

I'm not using LOS. I don't see why there would be targeting or tracking issues. Modern computers execute 40Billion instructions a second. Tracking 200 tokens should no way bog down a computer. If it did, the code would need to be incredibly poorly written (my background: 35 years of C and assembly programing).

Anyway I am not expecting the party them to fight each creature hand to hand. Maybe just a few of them. It is more for visual impact, and that effect is lost if I have one token on the map, but tell the characters that one token represents 50 creatures.

Multi-select for tokens doesn't seem an unreasonable request.

[damned]

Learn how to use Encounters. Check the Wiki.
https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/996640999/Preparing+Encounters+and+Random+Encounters

[RedBrother]

Not sure why you posted a link to the Wiki.
It doesn't answer the question.

[Zacchaeus]

damned linked to the wiki because that answers your question.

Prepare a number of encounters; maybe with 10 or 20 Goblins in each. Place those tokens where you want them by dragging the token symbols below the line from the encounter (not from the Combat Tracker) onto the map and then close the encounter. When you then want to place the encounter during combat open the encounter and click on the place encounter button at the bottom of the encounter window. This will place the tokens on the CT and onto the map in the place where you put them before.

[RedBrother]

Maybe you missed the title of the post.
I am asking about bulk adding.

You are saying to drag the tokens one at a time. I know I can drag them one at a time. But that is not what I am asking.

And the secondary question, how can I avoid losing the position of tokens when they get added to the map from CT, then deleted from the CT?
So for example if I want to run the same campaign twice with different groups of players, or do a test run of the encounter. I don't want to have to place all the NPCs on all the maps twice. In short, how do I "reset" the encounter, without recreating all the map token positioning?
Being able to reset the encounter would also solve the bulk add problem. As a bulk add is already possible from the CT. So if that worked (and it doesn't at the moment) the setup work-flow would be.
1) Create encounter as normal in the encounter window
2) Add encounter to CT
3) Bulk add by dragging ALL tokens to the map with the faction buttons at bottom of CT (this part works really well by the way)
Then you can fine tune the token positions by hand if required.
4) Delete foes from CT in bulk and it would be ready to go for the game. Unfortunately step deletes the token map data however :-(

I am assuming this is a bug or oversight? As adding tokens to the map from the CT doesn't set the placement tick mark for the token in the encounter window. But the token is obviously placed on the map at this point & so should be ticked?
At this point you are probably going to tell me (again) that my workflow is wrong, but at the moment it seems to be the only way to bulk add tokens?


click on the place encounter button at the bottom of the encounter window
There is also no "place encounter button", but I guess you mean the "Add encounter to combat tracker" button, which I also already know about, but doesn't answer my initial question.

[damned]

Encounters is the answer to your challenge.

[RedBrother]

"Encounters" doesn't actually answer the question.

If the bulk add functionality is missing and the there bug in the CT, then there is no shame in admitting it.

I suspect LordEntrails is correct in his statement that the function just doesn't exist.

Is there anyway to make a request for new functionality, to eventually get it implemented and CT fixed as well?

[Lo Zeno]

Maybe you missed the title of the post.
I am asking about bulk adding.

You are saying to drag the tokens one at a time. I know I can drag them one at a time. But that is not what I am asking.

And the secondary question, how can I avoid losing the position of tokens when they get added to the map from CT, then deleted from the CT?
So for example if I want to run the same campaign twice with different groups of players, or do a test run of the encounter. I don't want to have to place all the NPCs on all the maps twice. In short, how do I "reset" the encounter, without recreating all the map token positioning?
Being able to reset the encounter would also solve the bulk add problem. As a bulk add is already possible from the CT. So if that worked (and it doesn't at the moment) the setup work-flow would be.
1) Create encounter as normal in the encounter window
2) Add encounter to CT
3) Bulk add by dragging ALL tokens to the map with the faction buttons at bottom of CT (this part works really well by the way)
Then you can fine tune the token positions by hand if required.
4) Delete foes from CT in bulk and it would be ready to go for the game. Unfortunately step deletes the token map data however :-(

I am assuming this is a bug or oversight? As adding tokens to the map from the CT doesn't set the placement tick mark for the token in the encounter window. But the token is obviously placed on the map at this point & so should be ticked?
At this point you are probably going to tell me (again) that my workflow is wrong, but at the moment it seems to be the only way to bulk add tokens?


There is also no "place encounter button", but I guess you mean the "Add encounter to combat tracker" button, which I also already know about, but doesn't answer my initial question.

That's not how you use encounters: encounters ARE the bulk adding feature you need, it's explained in the wiki, you're using encounters incorrectly.
There are two steps: preparation, and play.
During preparation:
1) Open Encounters list from button, and create new Encounter record.
2) Drag NPCs to Encounter window and choose the number of each NPC in this encounter.
3) Open your map.
4) Drag and drop your NPCs from the Encounter onto the Map to decide their placement. Note that as you move your NPCs onto the map, their token in the encounter is replaced by a circle with a checkmark, signifying that you have predetermined their position. NOTE that at this point they are NOT added to the Combat Tracker
5) Close the Encounter record: that's important, this will remove the NPCs from the map.
During play:
1) Open the map and your encounter
2) Click on Add To Combat Tracker: all the NPCs of your encounter will be added to the map AND to the combat tracker, at once. Bulk added, as you say.

[damned]

While preparing an encounter how to I quickly add a lot of NPCs to a map?

There are too many to drag and drop each one.

(Important note: I don't want them in the combat tracker for the moment, I only want to prepare multiple encounters in advance).

See attached screen shot below.

54524


This is for preparing multiple encounters in advance. So they can't all be in the CT at the same time.

As an aside: If NPCs are added to the map from the CT, then removed, then the carefully laid out positions are also deleted. Which doesn't make sense, why not keep the last valid map position, even if you delete the token from CT. This would also solve the bulk add issue.

The limited D&D 5e rules for swarms don't make sense for larger creatures (e.g. Occupy other creature's space). Yes we could use a completely different game system, but the effort to learn a new game for one encounter rules out that option.

I'm not using LOS. I don't see why there would be targeting or tracking issues. Modern computers execute 40Billion instructions a second. Tracking 200 tokens should no way bog down a computer. If it did, the code would need to be incredibly poorly written (my background: 35 years of C and assembly programing).

Anyway I am not expecting the party them to fight each creature hand to hand. Maybe just a few of them. It is more for visual impact, and that effect is lost if I have one token on the map, but tell the characters that one token represents 50 creatures.

Multi-select for tokens doesn't seem an unreasonable request.

So do you want 200 NPCs on the map at a time or not?
Its really not clear. You suggest both that you do and that you dont.

You mention 5E limited rules on this topic. have you read this? https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/2017_UAMassCombat_MCUA_v1.pdf It suggests combining units into a single larger unit. It talks about Tiny, Small and Medium and says that Larger creatures can be done teh same way they just take up more space. Your goblin example fits within the discussed parameters.

If they are not fighting most of them and you want visual impact maybe an image might do that better?
https://i.imgur.com/pAVgmwA.jpeg
If you are using tokens to represent 10 goblins a goblin icon 3x the size of the characters does not lose the effect.

You have multi-select for tokens on lots of screens but not that one.
I dont know why, I suspect that the number of times people want to place 200 tokens on a map at one time is infrequent enough that this has never been a high enough priority to be coded. With 35years of programming experience Im sure you have experience with similar decisions.



Maybe you missed the title of the post.
I am asking about bulk adding.

You are saying to drag the tokens one at a time. I know I can drag them one at a time. But that is not what I am asking.

And the secondary question, how can I avoid losing the position of tokens when they get added to the map from CT, then deleted from the CT?
So for example if I want to run the same campaign twice with different groups of players, or do a test run of the encounter. I don't want to have to place all the NPCs on all the maps twice. In short, how do I "reset" the encounter, without recreating all the map token positioning?
Being able to reset the encounter would also solve the bulk add problem. As a bulk add is already possible from the CT. So if that worked (and it doesn't at the moment) the setup work-flow would be.
1) Create encounter as normal in the encounter window
2) Add encounter to CT
3) Bulk add by dragging ALL tokens to the map with the faction buttons at bottom of CT (this part works really well by the way)
Then you can fine tune the token positions by hand if required.
4) Delete foes from CT in bulk and it would be ready to go for the game. Unfortunately step deletes the token map data however :-(

I am assuming this is a bug or oversight? As adding tokens to the map from the CT doesn't set the placement tick mark for the token in the encounter window. But the token is obviously placed on the map at this point & so should be ticked?
At this point you are probably going to tell me (again) that my workflow is wrong, but at the moment it seems to be the only way to bulk add tokens?


There is also no "place encounter button", but I guess you mean the "Add encounter to combat tracker" button, which I also already know about, but doesn't answer my initial question.

If you bulk added 200 tokens to your map you would still have to go and move half of them.
How would I do this?
Id create 3 encounters of 10-12 goblins each.
Id use encounter placement and position them where I wanted them (read the wiki on correct use of encounters).

When the players arrive Id place a wave of 30-36 goblins with 6 mouse clicks.
When the timing was right Id click one or more encounters again to add another wave of goblins.
I might end up needing 5 or 6 waves or maybe I end up needing 50 waves.
Each time I want to add another 10-12 goblins it will take me one more mouse click.



"Encounters" doesn't actually answer the question.

If the bulk add functionality is missing and the there bug in the CT, then there is no shame in admitting it.

I suspect LordEntrails is correct in his statement that the function just doesn't exist.

Is there anyway to make a request for new functionality, to eventually get it implemented and CT fixed as well?

You are not using the tool correctly.
Maybe the work flow you want isnt there, that doesnt mean its broken.
It is working as intended.

You asked a question.
The answer to your question is to use Encounters.

There maybe other answers to your question but the best one is Encounters.

[Lo Zeno]

Have a look at this video on how the Encounter is actually a form of Bulk Add:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhU4e1ugaj2RgthwkauvPqso366uKw?e=jLxhIj

[RedBrother]

You have multi-select for tokens on lots of screens but not that one. I dont know why, I suspect that the number of times people want to place 200 tokens on a map at one time is infrequent enough that this has never been a high enough priority to be coded

I believe this is the correct answer. There is no multiselect in the encounters window.
200 drag and drop operations are required if there are 200 NPCs.


If you bulk added 200 tokens to your map you would still have to go and move half of them.
How would I do this?

This is easy, as there is multi-select in the map window.
(and also a form of multi-select in the CT window)


It is working as intended.

So a design bug and not a coding bug.
If you add tokens to a map from the CT window, then it should also "place" them, with a tick, in the encounter window as at that point they are on the map.

[RedBrother]

Have a look at this video on how the Encounter is actually a form of Bulk Add:

No it isn't. At 58 seconds into the video you are doing drag and drop, one token at a time.
If there was multi-select then you would have saved heaps of time doing this.

[Lo Zeno]

No it isn't. At 58 seconds into the video you are doing drag and drop, one token at a time.
If there was multi-select then you would have saved heaps of time doing this.

At every post you wrote, you referred to bulk adding from the CT to the map, not bulk dragging from the encounter to their placement on the map. Further, in one of your posts you asked how to reset the token positions of you wanted to reuse the adventure, which is exactly what the Encounter placements solve as illustrated at the end of the video.

So, sorry if I didn't understand exactly what you are looking for, but you were absolutely not clear on what you want to achieve.

[Zacchaeus]

I'm not exactly sure how you would multi-select a bunch of tokens from an encounter and have them placed where you want them. FGU can't guess at where you want to place your NPCs. That's for you to decide. You have to drag them one at a time in order to place them exactly where you need them to be. If you don't care where they are going to be on the map then just add them to the Combat Tracker from your encounter (without pre placing them from the encounter like you are supposed to do) and then use the red skull icon at the bottom of the combat tracker and dump them on the map. You'll need then to move each one to where they need to be of course - so I'm not sure how much time that's going to save you.

There's no bug here; it's just that what you want to do isn't feasible.

[Trenloe]

If you add tokens to a map from the CT window, then it should also "place" them, with a tick, in the encounter window as at that point they are on the map.
This is a misunderstanding of how encounter pre-placement works. The "tick" in the encounter window is only used to indicate that a token has been pre-placed from that encounter - it has no link to the CT. All encounter token pre-placement is done outside of the combat tracker, only dragging the token indicator from the encounter to the map. If the encounter is activated by clicking the down arrow in the encounter to add the creatures to the CT and place tokens on the map (if pre-placement was used in the encounter) then that is the end of interaction with the encounter record as the creatures in the CT have no link back to the encounter record. This is by design - if you want to pre-place tokens in an encounter do it before adding the creatures to the CT.

[RedBrother]

At every post you wrote, you referred to bulk adding from the CT to the map

Did you read post #1?
It said, "I don't want them in the combat tracker for the moment, I only want to prepare multiple encounters in advance"

BUT later I went on to explain why adding NPC to the map via the CT window also doesn't work, as people still suggested I mass add using the CT (in Post #2). This would have been a work-around solution, but there is a bug / design limitation that prevents this possible work-around.

I'm super surprised how defensive everyone seems to be and how the base assumption is that the user is at fault.

[RedBrother]

I'm not exactly sure how you would multi-select a bunch of tokens from an encounter and have them placed where you want them.

If would work exactly like the existing bulk token add function works from the CT window. 200 token appear in a nice grid with one drag and drop.

[Trenloe]

Let's provide a summary here...

1) There is no bulk pre-placement of tokens from an encounter. You need to drag/drop each pre-placement token from the encounter window to the map - the pre-placement tick appears only when doing this first drag/drop from the encounter to the map. More info in post #17. Once the pre-placement tokens have been added to the map, and the tick appears in the encounter, moving the token indicator on the map doesn't change the original placement - this is only set when the drag/drop is first done. If you need to re-place the already placed token, click on the tick in the encounter to remove pre-placement and show the token and then drag/drop again.

2) If you want to use a pseudo bulk token placement add the tokens to the CT and then use the faction button to drag/drop all tokens of that faction to the map. More info in post #16. This won't change any token pre-placement from an encounter used to add the creatures to the CT, but it will reduce the amount of drag/drop steps as part of the whole setup encounter -> deploy encounter to CT and map process.

This is how the system is designed. It's not a bug, at most it's a feature limitation - more than likely due to the drag/drop token pre-placement being done at the first drop - so if you bulk added 200 pre-placement tokens to the map you would be stuck with where the bulk pre-placement is initially done - moving them around doesn't change the initial pre-placement as there's no link from the pre-placed token indicator on the map and the encounter record.

So, yes, there could be more detailed functionality around the token pre-placement process. But this would require more complex coding to allow it to be fully useful (i.e. allow the pre-placement token indicators to be moved and update the original pre-placement location in the encounter). Therefore, I suggest you add your request to the FG development wishlist here: https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/

[RedBrother]

then use the red skull icon at the bottom of the combat tracker and dump them on the map.

Yes, I would like to make a new feature request to have the same skull icon in the encounter window, to enable bulk add.

It would work in exactly the same way as the existing bulk add function in the CT window (and this existing bulk add is a great feature by the way, that I suspect 90% of users don't even know exists, saves heaps of time).


You'll need then to move each one to where they need to be of course - so I'm not sure how much time that's going to save you.

Would save a lot of time for a large number of NPCs.
In that demo video Lo Zeno linked to above it would have saved maybe 30% of the encounter preparation time and that was just with 20 Goblins.

[Zacchaeus]

OK, well add your suggestion to the wish list. Link in my signature.

[RedBrother]

Done.
https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=139375

Hopefully it will make it from the wish list into a release one day.

Wish list was interesting reading.
I see there are 541 items in the wish list. With just 7 in with the completed status. Of the 7 implemented requests only 1 was a popular request.

There was a number of items in the wish list talking about LUA (the scripting programming language). I am guessing all of FGU was programmed in LUA? As this would go some way to explain the performance issues. So an interesting language choice. This also makes me wonder if I could get into the LUA source code and just add the feature I want myself?

There are some other really excellent items in the wish list (Aura effects, animated GIF / Webm support, token height indicators, etc). Hope to see some of these deserving ideas implemented as well.

[Mephisto]

I don't see why you couldn't write an extension to achieve what you want.

I think the biggest challenge will be what Trenloe pointed out: If you mass-drop the tokens, wherever they fall, that will be their starting position the next time you use the encounter. The drag-and-drop you do after the drop is not remembered in the encounter, you will need to save the adjusted position in the database for the encounter-

[Trenloe]

Done.
https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=139375
Thanks for adding. You may want to vote for your suggestion! :)

[LordEntrails]

Note that Many of the suggestions are not marked as completed yet they are. SW only goes in and updates the status very infrequently.