Question about sounds [Archive] - Fantasy Grounds Message Boards

Wook

November 20th, 2007, 06:14

Hello All,

Just seeing if anyone either a) knows how this might be implemented in FGII or b) has heard any develpor's remarks on the topic of... sound.

I am intrested in sending small soundbites to the party such as a noise, short NPC speech, ect. Nothing fancy like a full soundtrack with individual theme music per PC that is activated when his/her turn is up on the combat tracker... cool, but... no. Just short sound bites.

Anyone hear of this / have knoweldge of this, or a possible work around?

Wook

Asgorath

November 20th, 2007, 14:58

Maybe in FG 3
Sending mp3 files and maps/modules/etc... to several players over the Internet is stressing.
Jorge

richvalle

November 20th, 2007, 15:02

Currently the only way to do sounds is though other software packages. Ventrillo maybe.

The Devs have said (from what I remember... its been a while) that they know this is of interest to people and it is something they will look at further down the road.

rv

TaranShannara

November 20th, 2007, 16:29

I haven't tried this yet with FG2, but am using MorphVOX for local games.
https://www.screamingbee.com/

Should be able to use teamspeak, have this app listen to the mic if you want to transform your voice or just play the sound effect and it'll be played out to all connected on teamspeak.

Wook

November 20th, 2007, 18:06

Thanks for the great responses all.... will look into the alternatives and look forward to what the devs might plan in the future..

Wook

Loggahead

November 27th, 2007, 17:52

I would enjoy as would all the players in my group to have a simple dice sound play everytime you roll one of the dice. That is such as a simple addition that would add so much.

As far as sound streaming goes, I also own Klooge which I used with the HARP setting and it streamed sound flawlessly, even with me hosting on my home internet connection. I would constantly play different sound files when combat started/ended etc. It may add overhead, but in today's day and age it is more than possible.

richvalle

November 28th, 2007, 00:02

Per the devs they had dice sounds when they were first making the software but couldn't get the sound to synch up with the die movement and they found it annoying so they just took it out.

rv

Ged

December 1st, 2007, 20:16

Yes, the dice sounds weren't that succesful. We are still thinking about sounds, and, well... probably... will be doing them in one way or another at some point. It's not all happy though: patronizing as it may sound, if creating really cool sound atmosphere becomes a standard for community games, we might soon run out of gamemasters as the burden of preparing a game becomes too heavy. I know that not all features have to be used, but players easily start to expect that and if people start having less opportunities to play, was it a good feature after all?

One option is of course some good set of premade audio clips and audio clips for sale (and there are those available already), but it doesn't feel like a general enough solution. As I said, we'll have to think about it, listen to what you all say (and there are opinions for and against and even some pretty specific "requirements" have come up on these forums), and decide when and how to do what. Some features and additions are straightforward as they are pure improvements (it's just prioritizing), but this one is not as simple, at least in my opinion.

Astinus

December 1st, 2007, 22:05

All my players have asked for sound, so I'd be excited by the feature. It would be huge for us. But I do understand there are other features similarly desired.

However, if sound is introduced I'd love to see an option where sound files could be pre-distributed prior to gaming and then load locally on client machines - similar to the way "client data" loads locally in pre-distributed modules.

Pre-sending sounds would be much less bandwidth intensive and more responsive than streaming (on top of VOIP), so it would be nice to have the option.

As for the sound-creation work involved, I'd happily do it, or buy it like I buy tokens/maps now.

It's great to know you guys are considering it. Anyway, that's my two cents :)

Wook

December 3rd, 2007, 04:33

I can appreciate concern for the community. However, the logic following that sound functionality will lead to players demanding sound and thereby forcing the GM to comply to keep his players, ending in the GM being overburdened and resulting in fewer GMs and fewer games is a bit akward.

It relies on the assumption that players would demand the sound service and if they didn't get it they would leave the gaming group and start playing with a different GM. If that new "sound capable" GM already has his 4-6 players that he is comfortable with, the other "sound disgruntled" players have only one option, not playing at all? I doubt that is an option most players would choose because they didn't get sound bite piped into the game.

Time zones, group size, and a few other personal preferences among others would work against this outcome.

A more dangerous outcome is another software program of equal quality develops the sound functionality in an easily accessible format and you have a player / gm migration to that new platform. That would be my concern, not burdening the GMs with another voluntary feature.

Just a different take. Cheers.

Ged

December 3rd, 2007, 07:13

I can appreciate concern for the community. However, the logic following that sound functionality will lead to players demanding sound and thereby forcing the GM to comply to keep his players, ending in the GM being overburdened and resulting in fewer GMs and fewer games is a bit akward.

I'd be delighted to be criticized by more people, because nothings beats proper feedback. Playability and manageability have been pretty important considerations in the design of FG and thus we'd not like to slumber here with sounds either. We have tried to promote the possibility to wing the game (not having a premade map, e.g.) and that not distracting or telling the players directly that now they are on uncharted territory on GMs head.

However, it might be, that we shouldn't worry about that with sounds too much, and getting your opinions is very valuable.

Thanks,

Dachannien

December 3rd, 2007, 09:12

Focusing on the tabletop tools has been the right decision. Adding in sound at some point would be great, but I think most people wouldn't really take advantage of it (besides, perhaps, a Teamspeak/Ventrilo-like capability) because sound editing software isn't as readily available as graphics editing software.

I could be wrong on that - is there a software package that's essentially The Gimp, but for sound instead of images?

TaranShannara

December 3rd, 2007, 14:10

There is one like gimp, but for audio.
Audacity (https://audacity.sourceforge.net/)

richvalle

December 3rd, 2007, 14:15

I've always been of the opinion that having sounds would be ok but that I'd rather see other things first.

I've been playing games since 1980 something and never, not once, has there been music or sounds at our games. Since FG goes for the 'at the table' feel, I think adding sound effects starts to drift away from that a bit. Only a bit since someone COULD have sounds at the table.

If it was added I think I'd end up using it once or twice as a 'gee whiz!' thing and then never again as I don't want to spend the time hunting up sounds. Nor do I want music or sounds playing in the background as we'd have to talk louder to talk over it.

Things I'd rather see first are better better drawing tools in FG (colors, line width), multipule Combat Trackers that could be preset with NPC's and saved and even support for Linux/Mac's as it would add to the FG fan base.

My .02. :)

rv

Sorontar

December 3rd, 2007, 14:53

I think there is so much awesome work that has been done by the community (savable combat trackers, updating skills so hot-keys update, double click skill rols etc) that I'd prefer to see those in FG2 before anything like sound.

Even if we did get sound I'm not sure I would use it that much, maybe for Big Bad Boss moments or mood like entering docks, or a tavern or a night in the woods. I'd have to think long and hard as to when and where to use it.

Then again how many DMs currently change the mood graphically and how many players notice when it is done?

Having said all that my ideal tabletop gaming set up, you know when I win the lottery :), would have full sound capability and a 10 seat table with FG running on embedded monitors. I'll send you pictures in a couple of months as if I win this week it'll take a while to get all the gear set up and the attic converted :D

Valarian

December 3rd, 2007, 15:14

Want sound, use Grip! Want great graphics and usability, use FGII :D
I had sound when I used to use GRIP as my VTT. I think I used it once for a horror game, and never used it again. It can add atmosphere, but it can also be distracting.

Hamish

December 3rd, 2007, 15:54

I think the only way I'm going be using sounds if a lot of sounds are going to be included with FG, or if DA (or the likes) are going to sell sound-packs. That would be really cool though, if you could just buy high-quality sound-packs.

Wook

December 3rd, 2007, 21:52

Geesh fellas,

I open up with a question about sound... not a mandate, and wow, its translated to a threat to the community and then weighted against other features yet to be introduced :)

Haha, all I am saying is IF there were a mythical equivelant/twin/replica in every way of FGII out there (which does not yet exist) and it had sound and FGII did not, then that would be an issue in addressing a previous statement.

Sure... I could use email to send sound bites if I REALLY wanted to haha.

On a different topic, I will say, some of the features added by the community and previously mentioned here are nice ones. Yea, lets work on those first :) ...

Lastly my train of thought is this... for those intrested (and there is nothing saying you should be). When I describe a place as a GM, I want to incorperate all five senses into the description. As taste, touch, and smell will remain a verbal descript because actual "transmission" of these is a little out of the way in term of current technology, and sight is already good to go through image sharing... the only other feasible sense to pursue in the near term is sound... and thus my question :)

Cheers and may you find an Uncle Ben... I hear he is a swell fella.

Wook

Astinus

December 3rd, 2007, 23:58

I totally accept there are other features that can be added, and with less effort than sound, so it does make sense to prioritize and do those first. Things like savable combat tracker, better drawing tools and so on.

However, medium term, sound would seem an important priority. To echo Wook, engaging the senses is important. Consider the importance of music in movies, for example. And from a strategic business sense, sound may be essential if FG is to remain the best VTT option on the market, which it clearly is right now, for me.

And I don't think there's any doubt that someone would start selling quality sound packages in the same way FUM sells tokens and maps. If someone didn't, I would.

Valarian

December 4th, 2007, 08:31

Is it worth staring a formal Fantasy Grounds wishlist thread that the devs can dip in to and prioritise the wishes of the community?

Sorontar

December 4th, 2007, 09:28

Is it worth staring a formal Fantasy Grounds wishlist thread that the devs can dip in to and prioritise the wishes of the community?

Yeah I think a list of all the mods currently in use that people think should be considered by the devs to expand on would be a start of that and then a "Dear Ged" list for those things that we all think need working on but no-one in the community has figured out yet.

Dachannien

December 4th, 2007, 13:37

Hamish

December 4th, 2007, 13:39

Dear Ged,

When will you add Smell-O-Vision to Fantasy Grounds? I'd really like to be able to share all sorts of nasty smells with my players. Adding this feature would really set FG apart from all the other virtual tabletop programs out there! :D

Have you tried adding a charsheet_nose.xml to your ruleset? ;)

Griogre

December 4th, 2007, 20:00

In all honestly I would almost never use sound. I'd tried it a few time in face to face games and I didn't find it worth the hassle.

The only real sound that I would like to see in FG over other new features would be a brief, faint sound rolling dice sound when someone throws the die(s) in FG.

scytale2

December 11th, 2007, 00:25

scytale2

December 11th, 2007, 00:31

Dear Ged,

When will you add Smell-O-Vision to Fantasy Grounds? I'd really like to be able to share all sorts of nasty smells with my players. Adding this feature would really set FG apart from all the other virtual tabletop programs out there! :D

Well, actually there might be a way of linking the game to the mains, so that players can experience that electrocution trap first-hand...

Griogre

December 11th, 2007, 00:40

Well, actually there might be a way of linking the game to the mains, so that players can experience that electrocution trap first-hand...
Somehow I don't think this feature will be a big hit with the players. ;) Now GM's might like it - though:
*Mad giggle* "Ah HA! Sleeping when it's your turn again, eh?" ZZZZZZzzzzaaaaaaaaaaaapppppp!!!!!!!! :D

Doswelk

December 12th, 2007, 15:08

Well a few generic sounds would definitely be good:

a) A simple crackling campfire
b) An inn a la NWN and DDO
c) Cicadas for overnight
d) Lapping water for swamps or lakes
e) A city "bustling crowd" sound
f) A farmyard/village setting

Sound can be very evocative and help conjure up pictures and I do feel FG has a tendency to be a bit stressed/tense, since there is no sound at all. Where you use voice, probably sound is less useful, as voice spoils the atmosphere anyway. The last thing you want is some John Wayne accent coming from Elisabel the Elven trickster.

Ah yes but how will any of those help my D20 Modern urban campaign?

Sounds would be very hard to be generic enough for all the rulesets people use....

I rather see them support a MAC (so one of my players can run it on a decent speed PC, not the very slow laptop we found somewhere)

P.S. how would Elisabel the Elven trickster sound if you were just sitting around a table? <grin>

scytale2

December 14th, 2007, 12:30

Ah yes but how will any of those help my D20 Modern urban campaign?

Sounds would be very hard to be generic enough for all the rulesets people use....

I rather see them support a MAC (so one of my players can run it on a decent speed PC, not the very slow laptop we found somewhere)

P.S. how would Elisabel the Elven trickster sound if you were just sitting around a table? <grin>

It's not rocket science to develop custom sounds or even downloadable .wavs that could be used just to set the scene, which can either be very quiet (on a loop) or brought in and faded, to set a scene. Even I have figured out how to integrate pictures and maps and doubtless I could do the sounds, if a facility was there for them.

Modern sounds which would be useful:
a) City bustle, including car horns
b) Underground trains at a station
c) Bar with jukebox
etc.

Re- "sitting around a table" - point taken. It is a little advantage for text over the voice and FtF version, which have their advantages too.

Ebonfyre

December 21st, 2007, 04:20

It can go so far beyond simple background sounds. A sound use I am currently planning in my Rippers campaign is for a clairaudiant character to hear ghosts. I'm going to give her a bluetooth earphone paired to my computer and use another program to cue the sounds. I think it will be a very enriching addition during gameplay for her to be able to hear things the rest of the party can't and to do what she will with the information she gleans that way. I'll also probably use some method to create horror bumps and creaks and audio clues that if the players hear and figure out will help them. It would be great if FG allowed for this functionality directly, sending particular sounds to particular clients right in the program.

Valarian

December 21st, 2007, 08:53

It would be great if FG allowed for this functionality directly, sending particular sounds to particular clients right in the program.
It does ... this is what the Whisper function is for. Okay, it's not sound. But FGII speech is a text medium rather than an auditory one. If you do want sound, you can use other things alongside such as Ventrilo or TeamSpeak.

Answulf

December 22nd, 2007, 16:14

Dachannien

December 22nd, 2007, 21:13

You mean like this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7583)? ;)

scytale2

December 23rd, 2007, 01:02

Just my two cents:

If the entire community all got together and brainstormed for an hour on the things we wanted to see added to FG2 and then prioritized the list, I'm guessing "Adding Sound" would be pretty low.

It's pretty much down to whether you use voice or not. If you do, sound is unimportant, if you don't sound would be really good, as an atmosphere builder.

bazutti

February 23rd, 2008, 22:44

I don't care for bumping old threads, but sound discussion was really condensed here, so I thought it best to add to this thread.

We use Vent while we play. We typically use voice for in character discussions, and use chat for OOC, this way OOC things can get "queued" up in the chat screen without interrupting the flow of RP.

I run 2 vent clients when I GM. You can do this by adding the -m option to the exe file when it launches. I set up one client to play the same thing I'm listening to in iTunes. If anyone wants further directions on how to do this, I'd be happy to add more information.

So, the result is we all get in the same channel as the "music player". When using vent, each person can adjust the volume of the music player to their own liking. Then, I just change the song I'm listening to, and all players hear the same thing. Setting it up this way means I don't need to put a mic by the speakers or anything like that, and end up with a decent quality for sound. By setting the music volume low, so it's just background noise, it's very easy to continue talking over it without distractions.

Midnight Syndicate and Nox Arcana are pretty good for fantasy RP sessions. So check out those bands if you're looking for really good mood music.

This sealed the deal for us, because it was the only element missing from our face to face campaigns. Now we're able to get the same experience online when we all can't meet up.

Astinus

February 24th, 2008, 05:01

How do you get Vent to play what's running in iTunes? And if you're not playing a song, or soundtrack, does Vent just switch off? Like a voice activated stream?

bazutti

February 25th, 2008, 07:27

How do you get Vent to play what's running in iTunes? And if you're not playing a song, or soundtrack, does Vent just switch off? Like a voice activated stream?

Run two vent clients with the -m option to the .exe file. Go into setup for your music vent. Make sure Enable Outgoing Voice Communication is checked. Your input device should be your sound card, or whatever you use to play normal sounds on your computer. Under hardware input mixer, make the mixer your sound card, and Line "What U Hear". Set the Sensitivity to 0. Make sure Push to Talk is off. Click ok.

Just make sure you mute the music player from your normal vent login, otherwise you're going to hear your music from your speakers, and then the same music delayed over your headset.

SolSec

May 26th, 2008, 23:52

One option is of course some good set of premade audio clips and audio clips for sale (and there are those available already), but it doesn't feel like a general enough solution. As I said, we'll have to think about it, listen to what you all say (and there are opinions for and against and even some pretty specific "requirements" have come up on these forums), and decide when and how to do what.

The addition of sounds actually will give rise to another (small) cottage industry and great opportunities for 3rd parties such as FUG (Four Ugly Monsters is just an example of such a company that might provide 3rd party content).... such companies could be the ones to provide pre-made soundbytes for online RPG use in programs such as FG2, Klooge, etc.

Really. There is not some huge 'burden' on the GMs to spend dozens of hours trying to create their own sounds. Fact is, there are already millions upon millions of WAV files, MP3 soundbytes, AIFF files, and other free soundclips freely available on the Internet. It has been that way for years. And that is in addition to the many purchaseable Audio CDs that contain thousands of high-quality soundclips for use in games or game development. On the Apple iTunes Store alone, I could purchase "albums" of audio sound effects soundclips. Each album has several dozen soundclips and only costs $9.99

Example: High quality MP3 soundclip: Rolling Thunder, heavy thunderstorm

Example: High quality MP3 soundclip: Zombies Moaning

Example: High quality MP3 soundclip: Waterfall, ambient sound

Example: High quality MP3 soundclip: Fantasy tavern, ambient sounds

Example: High quality MP3 soundclip: Windstorm, howling wind

Example: High quality MP3 soundclip: Ford Model T, startup and drive away
(perfect for Pulp Era games such as Call of Cthulhu)

Hamish

May 28th, 2008, 08:16

If sound will be added to FGII (I'm not saying it will, nor that I absolutely need it), I would like to be able to link sounds to events. Example: If I make a melee attack roll for an Orc, I want some sort of grunt to be played automatically. Ideally I want to be able to link a small collection of sounds to the same event, so it's not the same grunt every time. :)

TaranShannara

May 28th, 2008, 14:37

Sound groups, sort of like Dundjinni does for doing placing tiles from a tile set. They have the same base name but different suffix like -a, -b, or similar. One would have to just select the base, and if there were other sounds named like it, it would play one of them at random.

My concern with sound is using up more bandwidth of the dsl upstream connection. Granted sounds can be very small files compared to images but it would need to be like graphics that can be preloaded or pulled off a URL.

balth

June 4th, 2008, 03:29

Ah yes but how will any of those help my D20 Modern urban campaign?

Sounds would be very hard to be generic enough for all the rulesets people use....

I rather see them support a MAC (so one of my players can run it on a decent speed PC, not the very slow laptop we found somewhere)

P.S. how would Elisabel the Elven trickster sound if you were just sitting around a table? <grin>

Whether it's streaming or preloaded, some ambience music is great for ANY campaign in ANY setting.

Some dark music by Midnight Syndicate for World of Darkness, some Braveheart for an epic battle; hell the Final Fantasy 7 battle music for random battles!

A soft gaelic tune for a Captain's recollection of the love he left behind that was captured by the swarm of skeletons you now set out to fight.

Music is a most powerful tool, and to be frank; I'd rather have it at my disposal than not. It can always be turned off; but if it's not supported, it can't EVER be turned on...;)

Khel

June 23rd, 2008, 18:41

I'm quite new to FG, having just played a couple of times as my old gaming group tries to get back together. However, I was excited about the possibility of sound and looked into it a bit - focusing on Skype add-ons, as that is what we're using for voice comms. There's an add-on for Skype called Pamela (available at https://www.pamela-systems.com/). It has a feature called the Emotion Sounds Player (meant to let you actually LOL during a chat) that you can add wav or mp3 files to and play them with a single click. Being a skype relative, it's very, very simple, but it seems to work quite well.

I'm trying to get my GM to try out use of sound, so I used Pamela and played a couple of free sound FX I downloaded and gave him quite a shock - I think he liked the effect. There are lots of sounds available at sites linked from here - https://www.stonewashed.net/sfx.html - including lots of the sounds requested here.

Astinus

June 24th, 2008, 19:51

Wow, that is an amazing resource of free sounds. Thanks for posting it.

richvalle

June 25th, 2008, 02:00

Hmmm, I'm trying pamela but the person on the other side isn't hearing the sounds. Do they need to install the software as well?

rv

Khel

June 25th, 2008, 17:58

When I used it, the other person did not have Pamela installed.

When I installed Pamela, Skype asked me whether I wanted to give Pamela permission to use Skype, so I said yes. I then started a Skype call, started Pamela and was able to send the sounds I had dl'ed earlier.

I don't know for sure, but I think you have to already be on a skype call (or at least a chat) for it to work - but I imagine you already were.

Sorry I don't have a better answer, but that's the trouble with bug-free installs - you don't learn anything about the app.

scytale2

June 25th, 2008, 23:29

I would certainly be interested in some atmospheric sounds:

a) Cicada - night time forest or swamp
b) Haunted house or graveyard
c) Dungeon crawl
d) Slither (for slimes)
e) Rain
f) Blizzard or howling wind

Anyone found anything good for the above?...perhaps even on a loop?

Sorontar

June 25th, 2008, 23:41

You may get some of your weather ones HERE (https://www.partnersinrhyme.com/soundfx/Weather.shtml) as well as your jungle stuff.

richvalle

June 26th, 2008, 14:17

Astinus

June 26th, 2008, 23:00

I think I figured out my sound problem. I never noticed Skype asking me to allow the other software access. When I checked it last night there was a ! icon that was asking me if I should allow it access. I've clicked 'yes' and I'll give the sounds a try tonight.

rv

I'd be interested to hear if you can send sounds via Pamela without having to initiate a voice call. If you happened to test that ;)

Khel

June 27th, 2008, 00:01

I'd be interested to hear if you can send sounds via Pamela without having to initiate a voice call. If you happened to test that ;)

I'm speculating a little, as I don't recall if I've actually done this, but from my experience with Pamela, I think it wouldn't be a problem. You just need to have a chat open via Skype, so there's a connection to send the sound over. But my DM is unavailable for a bit, so richvalle will get to test it before I do.