So... Kingmaker

[MaxAstro]

I thought there was an old thread on this I could revive, but a search didn't turn it up.

In any case: We are now pretty much on the verge of the release of the 2e version of Kingmaker, with backers like me getting the PDFs in just a couple days and the general public having access to it around late September, I believe.

Is the Fantasy Grounds team going to be tackling this monstrosity, or is it not part of the planned lineup?

[Trenloe]

Is the Fantasy Grounds team going to be tackling this monstrosity...
Yes. No ETA at this point.

[MaxAstro]

That's about the answer I expected, considering the size of the thing. :)

[damned]

I started making a thing a long time ago...

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54152&d=1661845599

54152

[MaxAstro]

Oh wow that's sexy. :D

...Mind you I've heard that the kingdom rules have been completely redesigned from the ground up, so it's probably woefully out of date, but still. XD

[damned]

Oh wow that's sexy. :D

...Mind you I've heard that the kingdom rules have been completely redesigned from the ground up, so it's probably woefully out of date, but still. XD

That happens when you snooze on a project for a couple of years!

[MaxAstro]

Are you guys getting the PDFs at the same time as backers? Would it be helpful at all if I passed over a copy of the kingdom building rules when I receive them (theoretically tomorrow)?

[Trenloe]

Are you guys getting the PDFs at the same time as backers? Would it be helpful at all if I passed over a copy of the kingdom building rules when I receive them (theoretically tomorrow)?
We've had the digital files from Paizo for a while now. Thanks for the offer but, just a friendly reminder, please don't pass on material that isn't 100% covered by the OGL, even if it is to people who should (in theory) have access to the material.

[MaxAstro]

Fair enough! I was thinking the rules themselves would be OGL, but of course there would probably be some accompanying artwork in the PDFs... Anyway, glad to hear it's all sorted on your end.

[kuthulu]

I was just discussing Kingmaker with my group. It seems like online would be a great way to play it. Makes keeping track of all the data much easier. Looking forward to this.

[danman71]

So Paizo is now taking pre-orders for retail and had a Roll20 link in their email I just got. Very disappointing there is no ETA on the FG versions yet. Hopefully soon.

[Trenloe]

So Paizo is now taking pre-orders for retail and had a Roll20 link in their email I just got. Very disappointing there is no ETA on the FG versions yet. Hopefully soon.
The official release of the adventure path by Paizo is still 5 weeks off and FG don't do pre-orders for any products. We also don't give a firm ETA because there are many things that can delay an product. This is the same for any FG product, so please don't feel very disappointed at this stage.

[Stargrove]

I was looking through the new Kingmaker Players Guide that I just downloaded (https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si5a) and I see that there is a nice Kingdom tracking sheet on page 82 and a nice Army tracking sheet on page 86 of the PDF. Are there plans to somehow incorporate these sheets into FGU so they can be utilized in the campaign?

Of note also are the urban grid and various building graphics so players can build out their kingdom. Curious if it can be shared how that mechanic might work in FGU for the players as they build their kingdom. I have seen in the Kingmaker PF1 AP2 FG module that there is a grid map with tokens. Not really sure how this works for players but, is it similar or different?

[MaxAstro]

I was looking through the new Kingmaker Players Guide that I just downloaded (https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si5a) and I see that there is a nice Kingdom tracking sheet on page 82 and a nice Army tracking sheet on page 86 of the PDF. Are there plans to somehow incorporate these sheets into FGU so they can be utilized in the campaign?

Earlier in this thread damned shared a picture of an early version of the kingdom sheet.

[Stargrove]

I did see that but I was not sure if that was for the original AP or this updated one.

[sciencephile]

Hi, this is Danny (sciencephile). I am the developer for this product for FGU. I started it a bit ago but I did move across country so I had to take about 3 weeks off and am back in full swing with it today. Normally, I'm one of the faster devs but this thing is monstrous (even the player's guide is almost 90 pages where player's guides are typically 10-15 pages). I don't have any immediate plans to create extensions to automate kingdom building and/or armies. That will be on the to-do list but may take a few months to get done. Luckily, the first 2 chapters of the adventure are lengthy and it should be quite a while before kingdom building or armies are needed anyways.

Here is the roadmap for what I am developing:

Kingmaker Campaign Book (2e) + Player's Guide
Companion Guide Supplemental
5e Monster Manual for Kingmaker
Pathfinder 1e Bestiary for Kingmaker

Note: While no extension will be released on day one, the adventure will have the grid maps and the building images. While the players cannot place buildings directly on the map, the GM can place the buildings on the map as separate layers on the grid map. So, visually you can see the kingdom layout and what buildings there are. It should make the system at least playable until the slicker, more permanent solution is released.

Hope this helps,
Danny

[Stargrove]

Yes, I was surprised that the Players Guide was so big as well. Thanks for the info. Looking forward to diving in once it is released.

[damned]

Earlier in this thread damned shared a picture of an early version of the kingdom sheet.


I did see that but I was not sure if that was for the original AP or this updated one.

It was something I was working on for the original.

[tiawaz]

Will it be possible to use the Campaign Book/Extension in a 5E campaign alongside the 5e Monster Manual?

[sciencephile]

I'll have to get back to you on this. Paizo created these products as non-digital with the intention of the adventure itself being Pathfinder 2e and then allowing the D&D 5E Monster Manual and Pathfinder 1e Bestiary to run games in those systems. I'm not sure what their rules are for VTT play. I am going to run this up the flagpole via Smiteworks (and ultimately Paizo) to make sure it is kosher to make the adventure run in multiple systems. I will post an update once I have more information. Thanks for the patience.

[sciencephile]

Will it be possible to use the Campaign Book/Extension in a 5E campaign alongside the 5e Monster Manual?

As stated above, I will ask to find out if this is possible from a legal sense.

In addition though, I do want to point out that the Kingmaker 5e Monster Manual and PF1e Bestiary are just monsters to use for parts of the game. There is no mention on how to convert other aspects of the campaign. If approved, the best I can offer is to make sure the adventure runs in the other rulesets. There will be no official conversions to replace Pathfinder 2e rules with PF1e or D&D 5e rules. It will be up to each GM (PF1e) or DM (D&D 5e) to modify the rules to fit, which will be some work by the GM/DM running the game. So in summary, the basic story can potentially be there but the specific game mechanics will have to be evaluated/replaced by each individual GM/DM running the game.

I should also add that making the story compatible in other rulesets (if approved) is not a high priority item and will happen after the other items on the roadmap.

Hope this clears this up.

[damned]

People will be able to open the module with Universal Modules extension but not use any extensions that you write for PF2.

[sciencephile]

People will be able to open the module with Universal Modules extension but not use any extensions that you write for PF2.

Heck, I didn't realize that was a thing. That seems like the perfect solution. :)

[Trenloe]

Heck, I didn't realize that was a thing. That seems like the perfect solution. :)
It's a solution, definitely. But not one that really we can recommend as an official way of running PF2 Kingmaker in another ruleset.

[UltimateGM]

It's been a while since I have been around. I have been taking some programming classes, mainly c++, but I am glad to hear this will be converted.

[Xargun]

Might be a silly question but will the 'Kingdom Building/Army Extension for Kingmaker' be free download so those of us who want to use the rules in our campaigns without the whole AP be able to use it? Or will it be linked to purchased users only?

Xargun

[sciencephile]

Might be a silly question but will the 'Kingdom Building/Army Extension for Kingmaker' be free download so those of us who want to use the rules in our campaigns without the whole AP be able to use it? Or will it be linked to purchased users only?

Xargun

Kingdom building and army mechanics are not officially part of the Kingmaker development. I was going to add it to my list of to-do's as a forge item (when I have time). Thus it was going to be an unofficial extension. However, if a current Forge developer wants to develop this themselves, they can work on it now and it might be ready when the AP comes out (*wink*, *wink*). Otherwise, if I do it, it will be weeks/months away as it is low priority.

[dsaraujo]

Damn it, I'm hearing as a challenge.

[MaxAstro]

Damn it, I'm hearing as a challenge.

Considering your excellent work on what is so far my favorite extension, I hope it's a challenge you feel like taking. :)

[sciencephile]

Me too :)

To be honest, I'm not much of an extension builder. I spend all my time trying to put out modules for the folks. Therefore, I will not be upset at all (in fact delighted) if the challenge is accepted.

[dsaraujo]

Since there is very likelihood of me running this on FG, I started playing with an UI. I'm not sure if I'll do a lot of automation, since this is a massive project, but having a place to put number down might be a good start.


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[MaxAstro]

That looks amazing! Honestly just having a place to put the numbers down that everyone can see, and maybe just doing the basic math for you - like calculating skill totals - would be incredible.

[sciencephile]

Kingmaker Development Update:


As you are probably aware, this is a monster of an adventure. Unfortunately, it takes longer due to that, as well. I originally was going to finish the AP then work on the companion guide, however, as I started digging into the adventure, I realized that the Companion Guide is better completed before the AP was finished. For those that choose to purchase it, it comes into play immediately in the game. Therefore, I am having to develop the AP + Companion Guide + Player's Guide as a simultaneous operation. This will slow up the progress of the AP itself but will get the Companion Guide completed simultaneous to the adventure.

It is a monster of a project so I'm not as fast as I am normally, so I do ask that you be patient.

Overall, I would estimate that I am about 25% done but at the same time, much of the overall images and architecture has already been done so what's left is more of the easy part. I am targeting getting all three done within a month, though it is likely that they will come sooner.

Thanks again for your patience,
Danny

[MaxAstro]

That is way crazy faster than I expected, wow. I'm not going to be running the adventure until January, and I was getting ready to do some converting of the early adventures on the assumption it might not be ready by then.

That is crazy good news! Can't wait 'till I can throw money at you guys for it.

[sciencephile]

That is way crazy faster than I expected, wow. I'm not going to be running the adventure until January, and I was getting ready to do some converting of the early adventures on the assumption it might not be ready by then.

That is crazy good news! Can't wait 'till I can throw money at you guys for it.

However, just to disclose properly, I am only able to estimate my development time. The product will still have to go through the review process once it gets turned in. It can normally take 2-4 weeks but have no clue about one this size. I'm usually pretty good at asking them to review in a fairly short amount of time when needed. Trenloe is also involved with this (and all Pathfinder 2e) products so he will help get it moved along when needed, as well.

Hopefully you are still excited and I didn't take any wind from your sails. I just wanted to be truthful. I probably should have mentioned the review time earlier, just to not give a false sense on release date.

[MaxAstro]

Not at all - even if I assume it takes you until the end of November, and then a full 4 weeks for review, that means it'll be ready by early January. And even if it's a week or two later then that, big campaigns take time to get off the ground, so it should be perfect for my timing.

[Transbot9]

I thank you for your hard work on this product and am patiently awaiting the conversion (actually waiting for THIS is easier than waiting for Paizo to stop dragging their butts on the game).

[Milke]

Even tho, yes, it's a job and a business, these adventures are converted and updated by players like us who care about the game. All the hard work is very much appreciated.

[sciencephile]

Thank you all for the support, appreciation and patience as this gets done. Someday I might get to play Pathfinder 2e (I played Fall of Plaguestone for a few sessions but have honestly have not spent much time to learn how to play it beyond a very rudimentary level). I spend most of my time building these things for you all to enjoy, but to be honest, I really enjoy the process of getting it done (and hopefully high quality with few errors).

I'm within a day or two of finishing up the Companion Guide, which I can then go back and focus on the rest of the adventure itself.

From what I'm seeing during the process of building the FGU files, I think you guys will enjoy running/playing this adventure.

Cheers,
Danny

[ivioin]

I can't wait... Take my monies...

[UltimateGM]

Since there is very likelihood of me running this on FG, I started playing with an UI. I'm not sure if I'll do a lot of automation, since this is a massive project, but having a place to put number down might be a good start.


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Any new updates on this extension. I am running the adventure currently and my players will be moving into the Kingdom building portion soon. Also, is there docs on building extensions for FGU?

[dsaraujo]

Any new updates on this extension. I am running the adventure currently and my players will be moving into the Kingdom building portion soon. Also, is there docs on building extensions for FGU?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?75825-Kingdom-Manager-Extension

[UltimateGM]

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?75825-Kingdom-Manager-Extension

Thanks for the quick response on this. It looks great!

[dmccoy1693]

Any chance for an estimate as to when the adventure will be released?

[sciencephile]

I was hoping to have it out by now but health issues slowed me down more than I had wanted. I anticipate turning it in for review within the next 2 weeks. Review time is typically between 2-4 weeks so hopefully it will be released by January or shortly thereafter.

[esmdev]

I was hoping to have it out by now but health issues slowed me down more than I had wanted. I anticipate turning it in for review within the next 2 weeks. Review time is typically between 2-4 weeks so hopefully it will be released by January or shortly thereafter.

Alas, but health comes first, hope you are feeling better!

[dmccoy1693]

I was hoping to have it out by now but health issues slowed me down more than I had wanted. I anticipate turning it in for review within the next 2 weeks. Review time is typically between 2-4 weeks so hopefully it will be released by January or shortly thereafter.

Thank you for the update. take care of yourself. Real lives come before imaginary dragons.

[sciencephile]

I am feeling better. Thank you. I got a whole chapter done yesterday in just a few hours so I do think I already did a lot of the hard parts and the rest will come easier and faster.

I'm back to work on it but wanted to acknowledge the nice comments above :)

[MaxAstro]

Health definitely comes first!

Ironically my plans to start Kingmaker have been delayed by the fact that I just broke my arm. XD So yeah. Healing first, all around. :)

[Trenloe]

Health definitely comes first!

Ironically my plans to start Kingmaker have been delayed by the fact that I just broke my arm. XD So yeah. Healing first, all around. :)
Oh no! Get well soon.

[sciencephile]

Oh no! Get well soon.

Agreed. I hope you get well soon!

[sciencephile]

Kingmaker Development Update:


The Kingmaker AP and Player's Guide are both finished and checked in for review. The companion guide is already out in the store.

I am going to switch gears a bit and catch up on the other APs (such as Blood Lords so they aren't neglected) and will come back to the 5E Monster Manual and PF1e Bestiary shortly thereafter.

[Trenloe]

The Kingmaker AP and Player's Guide are both finished and checked in for review. The companion guide is already out in the store.
Fantastic news! Thanks for the update, and the work on this behemoth.

[MaxAstro]

Awesome! Sounds like it might be ready to go right around the time I've finished recovering from my arm enough to run it. Funny how things work out like that. :)

[UltimateGM]

I have to say excellent work on the Companion Guide. I have already incorporated it into my adventure. I will be so happy once the campaign book is out since I have converted materials all the way up until Chapter 6 and I have to say it has been a ton of work. Hopefully it wont be too much longer before the Campaign Guide is out.

[Milke]

I bought the PDF of it last night, knowing it'll make my FG purchase cheaper when it comes out. I have the original PF1 books, but this PF2 upgrade looks good. Can't wait to get into it.

[UltimateGM]

Is there a place I should report an issue with the Kingmaker Companion Guide? I can't seem to find it.

[sciencephile]

You should report all Pathfinder 2e DLCs in the Pathfinder 2e DLC reporting thread. It is pinned within the Pathfinder 2e forum.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?51258-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-generic-DLC-issue-thread

[UltimateGM]

You should report all Pathfinder 2e DLCs in the Pathfinder 2e DLC reporting thread. It is pinned within the Pathfinder 2e forum.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?51258-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-generic-DLC-issue-thread

Thanks for letting me know. I knew it was around here somewhere. Can we hope for the actual AP to be released tomorrow? Fingers crossed! :p

[sciencephile]

Well, the fix will be released by that time. I think some folks are on holiday vacations. I am under the impression that it is being targeted for final review and release next week. I don't control release schedules so please don't hold me to that though. :)

[dmccoy1693]

Deleted

[dmccoy1693]

Kingmaker Development Update:


The Kingmaker AP and Player's Guide are both finished and checked in for review. The companion guide is already out in the store.

I am going to switch gears a bit and catch up on the other APs (such as Blood Lords so they aren't neglected) and will come back to the 5E Monster Manual and PF1e Bestiary shortly thereafter.

Wahoo!!!

[sciencephile]

Please note that I will no longer be updating the development status of the remaining 2 books on this thread as the Kingmaker AP has its status within the Pathfinder 2e conversion status thread now (along with the other books and adventures).

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61483-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Official-Paizo-Product-Conversion-Status

[sciencephile]

Just a FYI... The Kingmaker Adventure path book has been released and is in the store :)

[Lawlesslisa]

Hello,

The Kingmaker 2e PDF purchase at the Paizo store is not discounted on the price of the Fantasy Grounds Kingmaker 2e purchase?

[Trenloe]

Hello,

The Kingmaker 2e PDF purchase at the Paizo store is not discounted on the price of the Fantasy Grounds Kingmaker 2e purchase?
Resync (retrieve) your purchases from Paizo: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/syncPaizoAccount.xcp Even if you've done this before, you need to do it again to get the latest product info.

[Lawlesslisa]

Yep, thank you, I had to resync again to see the discount. It shows correctly now.

[Muagen]

I’ve purchased the AP, but won’t be at my computer to check it out more fully until this evening.

Quick question: does the AP come with the Player’s Guide?

[MaxAstro]

just a fyi... The kingmaker adventure path book has been released and is in the store :)

omg omg omg :D :D :D :D <3

It was literally my birthday yesterday so I'm counting this as a present. <3

[sciencephile]

I’ve purchased the AP, but won’t be at my computer to check it out more fully until this evening.

Quick question: does the AP come with the Player’s Guide?

Yes, the player's guide is included.

[Muagen]

Thanks for the swift response! Looking forward to getting this set up for my group!

[willrune]

Me too :)

To be honest, I'm not much of an extension builder. I spend all my time trying to put out modules for the folks. Therefore, I will not be upset at all (in fact delighted) if the challenge is accepted.


It does not contain any data: no feats, no armies, no buildings information. Just fields to store your stats. I assume the data you describe will be part of the kingmaker campaign module once launched.

I'm a player in a group that is enjoying a play through and are eager to start using the newly released AP today! (I think the GM was working with 1e maps and such until now)

I'm still a bit unsure on what the expectations we should have for Kingdom Management.

Do we use dsaraujo's extension until a new one is created that has data, calculations, and building grids? Is the current state of dsaraujo's extension considered complete? Who/what is the end game for Kingdom Management.

We currently use a spreadsheet to manage the kingdom because it automates some things that the extension doesn't (which as far as I can tell by the comment above is intentional by dsaraujo's design).

In short (after a well earned break!) should we be expecting something new in the future for kingdom management?

Its hard for me to dive too deep into kingdom management, as I'm worried about unintentional spoilers for what is to come.

[sciencephile]

To be honest, I think dsaraujo's kingdom builder is quite well done and I don't see me trying to replicate the same thing he has already created.

The AP has a grid template and images for the various building types so town/city building setup can be done via that. Kingdom management is best kept through the extension as far as I can see.

I am wiling to collaborate with dsaraujo to help ease the ability of the extension to use asset within the campaign (by creating a standard structure for some of the assets used by the extension), if necessary.

[willrune]

Got it! Thank you. I will pass it along to my group.

The reason I asked was the post from him that I quoted left me wondering if more was coming from you and it was a coin toss for which thread I asked the question in. (Apologies if I misinterpreted something!)

Once again, thank you for all the hard work, we are really looking forward to it!

[pheanox]

Hey there, GM here. I just purchased the Kingmaker 2e Adventure Path and I love a lot of it. I had a few issues I think may be a bit glaring though, so thought I would bring them up here.

1. Is there a player facing hex map available for the Stolen Lands? I couldn't find it in any of the maps. They all have the reference dots for the GM on whats on each tile. I consider this a spoiler, as most of these features are not visible while hexploring and are meant to be surprises to discover.

2. I noticed that the buildings in the kingdom management section were not added as stamps, this seems like an oversight. With the stamps you can easily make new towns by easily stamping the buildings onto the urban grid.

3. Perhaps I didn't see it, but is there a kingdom tracker added to FGU? A kingdom character sheet or something similar? I don't know if you add new systems with your updates, I'm used to getting that with the Traveller FGU books so maybe PF2 doesn't do that? Or I just missed it.

The first two issues are something I can fix (and in regards to 1, already had set up prior to this release, we are on session 5 this Sunday after all). The third one probably is something that has to be done on the FGU end of things. I'm sure its a month or so away before my players need the tracker, but nice to be prepared. Your thoughts would be welcome on these concerns.

On a positive note, this update is massive! Tons of tokens set up, all the maps I saw from the books added in, and I loved the addition of generic maps for some encounters that don't really have set maps. You put in a lot of work and I definitely appreciate it!

[Trenloe]

1. Is there a player facing hex map available for the Stolen Lands? I couldn't find it in any of the maps. They all have the reference dots for the GM on whats on each tile. I consider this a spoiler, as most of these features are not visible while hexploring and are meant to be surprises to discover.
Use the maps in Appendix 8 - the Map labels are on their own layer which is set to GM only.


2. I noticed that the buildings in the kingdom management section were not added as stamps, this seems like an oversight. With the stamps you can easily make new towns by easily stamping the buildings onto the urban grid.
I'll reach out to the dev to see what their plans were for the buildings.


3. Perhaps I didn't see it, but is there a kingdom tracker added to FGU? A kingdom character sheet or something similar? I don't know if you add new systems with your updates, I'm used to getting that with the Traveller FGU books so maybe PF2 doesn't do that? Or I just missed it.
There's an extension in the Forge for kingdom management: https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/918/view

[sciencephile]

I'll reach out to the dev to see what their plans were for the buildings.

There was plans on the buildings being included in the module. Unfortunately, there seemed to be a problem with the export process to put into into module format. I didn't realize that it left out the buildings (which were in their own folder in the images folder). I manually added the buildings folder back into the folder and checked it in as a hotfix. You should see the fixed version hopefully later today.

[pheanox]

Thanks for the responses, appreciated. No plan to integrate the Kingdom Management stuff with Kingmaker? It seems like a pretty key component of Kingmaker.

[sciencephile]

https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/918/view

[pheanox]

Yes, I saw the link. Apologies if I wasn't clear. As I mentioned, I also purchase Mongoose Traveller 2e FGU books/modules, and the books that add in direct mechanics changes or new systems add those systems to FGU with the purchase of the modules directly instead of requiring the purchase of additional extensions. I am just clarifying if that is not how it works for Pathfinder 2 modules. This isn't official integration, it is a 3rd party extension. If there is an intent on eventually bringing in integration of this critical system for Kingmaker with the purchase of the module, I can wait for that. I'm not at the point yet where I actually need the kingdom tracker.

[Trenloe]

Yes, I saw the link. Apologies if I wasn't clear. As I mentioned, I also purchase Mongoose Traveller 2e FGU books/modules, and the books that add in direct mechanics changes or new systems add those systems to FGU with the purchase of the modules directly instead of requiring the purchase of additional extensions. I am just clarifying if that is not how it works for Pathfinder 2 modules. This isn't official integration, it is a 3rd party extension. If there is an intent on eventually bringing in integration of this critical system for Kingmaker with the purchase of the module, I can wait for that. I'm not at the point yet where I actually need the kingdom tracker. That's probably a month or so down the road of my own campaign.
FG DLC that is for rulebooks can and sometimes do have some form of coding support in the ruleset or an associated extension. For adventure products (which Kingmaker is) I'd be surprised if there's more than a handful of DLC products that also provide updated ruleset code. Happy to be proved wrong, but I'd be very surprised if there's any but a very, very small amount.

There have been plenty of other Pathfinder Adventure Paths (both 1e and 2e) that have in-built mechanics which aren't programmed in Fantasy Grounds as part of the product conversion - I can't think of one that does.

There's some information from the Kingmaker converter earlier in this thread here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?74968-So-Kingmaker&p=663907&viewfull=1#post663907 (and also some comments before and after this post). I don't know if anyone's point of view has changed, but I would be surprised if there's going to be any form of integration (with or without automation) for kingdom building etc. in the Kingmaker Adventure Path product itself. This isn't an exception to the norm for adventure product conversions on FG.

[sciencephile]

There are no plans on creating a new kingdom management extension in the foreseeable future, I'm afraid.

[pheanox]

Thanks for the reply, Trenloe. I hope I didn't come across as obnoxious, I just wasn't sure of the expectation on the system integration. The clarity is appreciated, I know each game system has a bit of semi-autonomy. I also appreciate the response on my other two questions about the layers and the plans to add in the buildings for the urban grid!

[Trenloe]

Thanks for the reply, Trenloe. I hope I didn't come across as obnoxious, I just wasn't sure of the expectation on the system integration.
No worries. We all have expectations based off our experiences, and I'd love a full-wizz-bang-integration-and-automation solution for Kingmaker stuff but that's just not realistic in an adventure product.

[dsaraujo]

Do we use dsaraujo's extension until a new one is created that has data, calculations, and building grids? Is the current state of dsaraujo's extension considered complete? Who/what is the end game for Kingdom Management.

My plan is not to do any major updates on the extension, as adding automation is a lot of work, and tomeric's spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nPrzY23RoIaBnAaDYNsR--LYoNoi3sfrtQrbsflZI1A/edit#gid=1281032754) is very functional (my plan is to use the spreadsheet myself). Like my GM enhancement extension, I usually build things for my own use, and my main goal with Kingdom Management was to store basic values so it would be nice to have players doing checks in FG. I'm planning to use simple images with building as tiles with the grid on the background for settlements (plus the settlement entry). Once I start my Kingmaker campaign and reach level 4-5, maybe I'll get back to it and add more details: as usual, I'm definitely open for feedback and suggestions here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?75825-Kingdom-Manager-Extension).

[SweegyLeo]

Not sure how helpful or relevant...
Partially, I'm not sure how player placed tokens are saved on a map, after.
But.
Hypothetically, if the settlement upgrades, were loaded similarly to spell tokens.
Our players can manipulate their spell tokens on a battlemap.
Theoretically, that means that a player could manipulate settlement tokens (using spell tokens) and place them onto the urban grid (battlemap)

That seems like it would be functional if not automated.
Grid snap would theoretically also help snap the tokens into the urban grid?

But I'm not sure how permanent those placements would be.
I'm new to the DM side in FG.

[sciencephile]

The buildings were placed as images instead of tokens on purpose as it was a lot more difficult to use them as tokens, due to sizing issues. Tokens are generally associated with NPCs, which have a size entry in the stat blocks that controls the size of tokens.

Using them as layers requires the GM to be involved more in taking directions from the players where to place the buildings but with the use of pointers, it should be fairly minimal effort. This method also allows the images to be locked in place so it eliminates any possibility of accidental removal of tokens.

[SweegyLeo]

The buildings were placed as images instead of tokens on purpose as it was a lot more difficult to use them as tokens, due to sizing issues. Tokens are generally associated with NPCs, which have a size entry in the stat blocks that controls the size of tokens.

Using them as layers requires the GM to be involved more in taking directions from the players where to place the buildings but with the use of pointers, it should be fairly minimal effort. This method also allows the images to be locked in place so it eliminates any possibility of accidental removal of tokens.

That makes a ton of sense.
And as you said, pointers can be drawn as squares, that can be sized to fit the grid anyway right.. And then moved into position, and multiple players could suggest with their pointers.

And I like that Layers solution for placement.
From experience under our DM, she is preety smooth with her layers. I can see that working really well.

Thank you.

[sgtwhy]

The (kingmaker AP in general) is something I've spent countless hours on both as a player and (multiple times now) managing it as a GM.
The old system was challenging enough to manage, with all of the various pieces of metadata. But this new updated version is more complex in so many ways.

Plus, it’s not even until the third book/chapter that kingdoms even come into play ... so many Kingmaker campaigns will never make it that far. (speaking from personal experience)
And it’s not until even later that “armies” come into context.(that's possibly years of regular playing!)

But anyhow, my point was - I'm excited about Kingmaker and about automating it where possible … if even just for my own needs as a GM (if for some reason it's not possible to share my work as an extension?)

I spent the last month on a “deep dive” into LUA + FGU code ... as well as countless hours pouring over the mechanics related to this updated system.
Currently, I have a fully working “kingdom sheet” written from the ground up using CORE RPG … to intentionally keep it compatible with PF1, PF2 and 5e.

It works the same for any of those versions, without depending on their rulesets.

From there, I started on designing “kingdom turn” automation as the next challenge … and have a rough system in place already, that I will be play-testing with my group.

Perhaps, if it doesn't conflict with any "already promised" releases from Smiteworks, etc ... I can eventually make this "alternate" option available for others as well.

[sgtwhy]

I had mentioned its possible to use the building icons to create a city urban map, but afterwards realized it has the same issue with tokens resizing.

It now makes sense, why you decided to instead treat them as images ... so the size remains constant after a reload.

(removed the attachment to avoid confusion / spoilers)

[Stargrove]

I would like to make a request for this large AP:

Can Background Decals be added to the AP for the various stages that the players will progress through? It is nice to have these available. I am coming off running a two year campaign for the Mummy's Mask and it had decals created for all the AP stages and it was nice to changes those scenes as we progressed through the AP.

It does not seem this gets implemented enough, but it is nice to have available.

I will admit that I may be misunderstanding where the decals come from, but I am obviously assuming that the are part of the AP modules.

[dsaraujo]

Any image can be used as a decal now, I usually pick one of the AP scenes as a decal; Just open them on the asset window. Or do you mean customized (semi-original) images?

[Stargrove]

No, like the ones shown here that were included with the AP for Mummy's Mask:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56285&d=1676864253

Whoever made the Mummy's Mask AP put those images to be used as decals in the AP file itself and they are located here: ..\PZOSMWPZO9079FG.dat\modules\PZOSMWPZO9079FG Assets\images\decals\

I believe they are images from the AP books themselves with the Mummy's Mask logo added underneath them.

It was a nice touch. Whoever did Rise of the Runelords only included images from the first AP book and then just didn't do any more of them.

Come to think of it now, I have a lot of the FG AP books and Mummy's Mask seems to be the exception and not the rule as not many of them actually have them.

[Trenloe]

It was a nice touch. Whoever did Rise of the Runelords only included images from the first AP book and then just didn't do any more of them.

Come to think of it now, I have a lot of the FG AP books and Mummy's Mask seems to be the exception and not the rule as not many of them actually have them.
The original implementation of decals was very resource hungry - each decal was loaded into memory, even if never used. So products stopped using them. Recently the way decals work has been changed and so now it's not much of a resource issue as it was originally. It's now up to the individual product dev if they take the additional time needed to create decals specific to the product.

[Stargrove]

What is the best way to do it now then if I have to do it myself?

[Trenloe]

What is the best way to do it now then if I have to do it myself?
Add the images to either your <FG app data>\images or <FG app data>\campaigns\<your campaign name>\images directory so that they appear in the Assets -> Images list (the asset Data or Campaign folder, respectively). Then, from the Assets -> Images list navigate the image you want to use, click on it so that the Preview window opens, then click the "Set Background Decal" button.

[Stargrove]

I was playing around and found that I could also put files in this directory: ..\campaigns\Kingmaker\images\decals and they would show up for my Kingmaker campaign.

But, is sounds like, based on your previous explanation, that this may not be the viable because it loads all the graphics there into memory.

[Trenloe]

But, is sounds like, based on your previous explanation, that this may not be the viable because it loads all the graphics there into memory.
The *old* way was too resource intensive, the new ways aren't - either using the decals directory or making any image asset a decal via the "Set Background Decal" button. Do whatever works for you - the old way isn't implemented anymore.

[sgtwhy]

Quick update on my automation progress …

So I have made good progress with automating the kingdom meta-details and tracking of monthly events.

But I am confused about how to properly handle the “data” side … when I package it up for others to use.

What is the currently accepted “norm” based on what’s been released to date? If I compare it to the existing “kingdom sheet” … it already had included kingdom stats and skills.

So I am interpreting it as “anything mechanics related” would be ok -- but what about kingdom feats or “kingdom features” ?

There are about a dozen “kingdom feats” and ~40 “kingdom features” that are gained as a kingdom levels up.

Then there are the dozens (40-60ish) “kingdom activities” that can take place during a kingdom month.

Of these only the (12) kingdom feats were included in the release AP. The (level up) features and kingdom actions are only included as part of the APs reference manuals.

So my question again … what data can I include within the app and what cannot be included?

Is it “probably OK” to include everything that would be on a character sheet?
Or just what was included in the “free PDF” released for the “Players Guide to Kingmaker” (the 2022 version) ?
(for context: it didn’t include the text for the kingdom events, but did include ALL the other rules, stats, including feats and features … as well as listing all of the buildings and their related metadata)

For my usage so far, I manually entered ALL of the data … so I could automate around it and simplify management of each kingdom event, etc.
But if I need to strip out or not include any data, would like to know in advance ... so I can inform users about what they will need to do before using my toolset.

Any suggestions or such would be super helpful, as I’d rather not get folks excited about this .. if it's going to get shot down before actual release.

[Trenloe]

Quick update on my automation progress …

So I have made good progress with automating the kingdom meta-details and tracking of monthly events.

But I am confused about how to properly handle the “data” side … when I package it up for others to use...
You can include data is purely mechanical and also data that is covered by an open/community commons license. Most of Paizo's base data records are covered by the Open Gaming License - so as long as you release your data with that license (include the full OGL in your product somewhere) then you can include that data. A good rule-of-thumb is you can include what's in the 2E PRD (Pathfinder Reference Document) on Archives of Nethys. The Kingmaker stuff is here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Sources.aspx?ID=150

[bandrewski]

Anyone have an update on the Kingmaker Bestiary for 5E ?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=PZOSMWPZO2025FG

Showing should have been out in July

[sgtwhy]

I would assume that they first need to get permission from WotC to produce the kingmaker AP in 5E - before even considering releasing the associated Bestiary on FGU.

[Trenloe]

Anyone have an update on the Kingmaker Bestiary for 5E ?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=PZOSMWPZO2025FG

Showing should have been out in July
The available date is purely a placeholder and is created when a converter "claims" the product in the FG conversion process - it's no guarantee of a final release. It's easy to guess the product code and go to a pre-launch store page, but any store page that isn't actually for alive (released) product won't contain full data and is always subject to change.

At this stage the 5E bestiary release is on hold, primarily due to the complexities of making the 5E Kingmaker Bestiary usable with the PF2 Kingmaker Adventure Path in FG.

[Trenloe]

I would assume that they first need to get permission from WotC to produce the kingmaker AP in 5E - before even considering releasing the associated Bestiary on FGU.
It's a third party product released under the OGL, WotC don't need to give permission.

[FirstFrost]

The available date is purely a placeholder and is created when a converter "claims" the product in the FG conversion process - it's no guarantee of a final release. It's easy to guess the product code and go to a pre-launch store page, but any store page that isn't actually for alive (released) product won't contain full data and is always subject to change.

At this stage the 5E bestiary release is on hold, primarily due to the complexities of making the 5E Kingmaker Bestiary usable with the PF2 Kingmaker Adventure Path in FG.

It's been over a year now since last word here about the 5e Kingmaker Bestiary. Any new information regarding its status?

[sciencephile]

Hi FirstFrost,

There was a conversation the other day about this that involved the SmiteWorks team and Paizo. This is on indefinite hold per that conversation. It was mutually agreed between SmiteWorks leadership and the Paizo team.

[Lawlesslisa]

Hello, sorry but I had trouble finding a thread or answer to this when I searched. Upon creating a new campaign with the PF 2 Kingmaker Module - will I be able to use the remastered rules, and everything work - spells, monsters, NPCS, etc.?

Thank you

[Trenloe]

Hello, sorry but I had trouble finding a thread or answer to this when I searched. Upon creating a new campaign with the PF 2 Kingmaker Module - will I be able to use the remastered rules, and everything work - spells, monsters, NPCS, etc.?
Everything will "work" but won't be 100% remastered. For example, NPC spells won't be changed to the remastered versions. Alignment damage will be converted to "spirit", the spell school trait will be removed from spells, positive is replaced with vitality damage, negative is replaced with void damage - these replacements are carried out during the damage roll. Effects need to be updated to use the new damage type names (the ruleset will do this automatically in a future release). The GM will need to decide if a creature has the holy or unholy trait.

All of this is generic for all PF2 legacy modules.

[MaxAstro]

Hello, sorry but I had trouble finding a thread or answer to this when I searched. Upon creating a new campaign with the PF 2 Kingmaker Module - will I be able to use the remastered rules, and everything work - spells, monsters, NPCS, etc.?

Thank you

To add on to what Trenloe said, the main thing that will need manual intervention is creatures with positive or negative damage resistance/weakness. Because of how the remaster ruleset automatically converts damage, the resistance will break unless you manually change it to vitality or void.

So for example, if a creature has the effect "RESIST: 10 positive" or "WEAK: 10 negative", you will need to change those to "RESIST: 10 vitality" and "WEAK: 10 void" respectively, or they won't work.

Other then that there aren't any major automation issues I'm aware of (I'm running Kingmaker myself!).