Lights inside ambient light mask is grayish

[Zarestia]

1. Place some cave/temple LoS with an opening
2. Activate ambient lighting
3. Create a mask for the inside of the cave/temple so tokens can't see inside.
4. Add lights inside the cave/temple

I've used the candle preset for lights.

If a token is selected, they see the light with some gray edge.
https://i.imgur.com/o2tZygA.png

If no token is selected, everything looks fine.
https://i.imgur.com/PaDrC11.png

I can share the map if necessary.

Edit: Yes, there's a typo in the title...

[Moon Wizard]

Can you please share the campaign?

Also, it looks like the token can see into the cave, where the candle is sitting so you may be seeing the color for token FoW which creates a lower range for lights. (Ie if light color less bright than FoW color, then FoW color is used.)

Thanks,
JPG

[Zarestia]

Can you please share the campaign?

Also, it looks like the token can see into the cave, where the candle is sitting so you may be seeing the color for token FoW which creates a lower range for lights. (Ie if light color less bright than FoW color, then FoW color is used.)

Thanks,
JPG

I've messaged you the Google Drive link because of copyright reasons.
I've cleared the FoW beforehand.

One other issue occured while playing. This happened only for the GM with Player Preview Vision.
I had some player characters on the map, some with Darkvision, some with no Darkvision.
As a GM I could only see the other player characters on a character with Darkvision.

It looked like this from my GM view:
https://i.imgur.com/so776Vz.png

And this from a players view:
https://i.imgur.com/neD2DZI.png

I can also share the running campaign with you if you want.

[damned]

Nice maps!

[Moon Wizard]

Can you point out on the map where the issue is? They look almost identical to me (other than LoS being slightly different on player side, due to all tokens vs. single token)

Regards,
JPG

[Zarestia]

Screenshots were from 2 different campaigns, same map, that probably was cause of the confusion.

I actually was able to reproduce and I think I already reported this error and it was fixed some months ago? I can't remember.

I see two issues.
1. Lights inside an ambient light mask do not behave as expected (grey edge around them)
2. The GM can see friendly units only with units who have Darkvision when they're in ambient light. This happens only on a map from a module!

I've message you a test campaign and a test module.

1. Load the campaign.
2. Load the module.
3. Open the image. Two PCs should already be on there.
4. Click on either token and you see the grey lights (1. issue)
5. Click on the token "PC Darkvision" and you can see the other PC
6. Click on the token "PC No Vision" and you can not see the other PC (2. issue)

The 2. issue only occurs as GM view, players themselves on their clients see fine.

[Moon Wizard]

As I mentioned earlier, the gray edge to the lighting is expected, because the FoW is brighter than the edge of the candle lighting. If I'm not understanding the issue, can you circle on a picture?

For the ambient lighting token vision, that's a known issue at the moment where intra-token visibility does not update correctly on reload when ambient lighting used. @cpinder is currently working on rebuilding the ambient lighting for better performance already, and I believe that will be addressed when that is released.

Regards,
JPG

[Zarestia]

As I mentioned earlier, the gray edge to the lighting is expected, because the FoW is brighter than the edge of the candle lighting. If I'm not understanding the issue, can you circle on a picture?


Why should there be FoW in an area a token has never seen before?
FoW should be blurry, the gray circles are not blurry.

The token is just dropped here, there can't be any FoW data. Those lights don't look correct.
https://i.imgur.com/JTNSDD9.png

This is how they should look like imo. Disable Line-of-sight on the map I posted you and the lights look normal again.
https://i.imgur.com/ZHFeKLx.png

[Moon Wizard]

Why wouldn't the token be able to see the candles in that space where you dropped it? (assuming it has standard vision and LoS to the location of the light?)

You have the token selected, which means that fog-of-war will be shown for that token.

Regards,
JPG

[Zarestia]

Okay. I think we are talking about a different definiton of fog-of-war or it behaves completely different on how I thought.

Fog of war is when you enter an area in which you can see something and leave that area. This area has now FoW and is grey blurred.

So every light renders automatically hard grey edges to show "FoW of itself"? That looks pretty immersion-breaking to me, but that's just my opinion.

Slightly off-topic: There are some changes in TEST which indicate a possible on/off for FoW. If I can turn off the "FoW of lights" with that, I'm fine and stop nagging. :)

Another map I have at hand:
https://i.imgur.com/08M05oL.png

[Laerun]

The FoW is per player, and really just think of it as muscle memory from the previous area passed through. But, it is a bit bright at times. Also, remember that if you are in the GM view, you will see many more elements than a standard player. If you would like a session in regards to lighting, let me know.
I go over these things in our map tools sessions. Some things are not as apparent until you use these features more often. I am usually available. Showing you some things is more straightforward than writing a book in the forums.

Cheers,
Laerun

54159

[Moon Wizard]

In that last picture, I assume that the token has LoS to the candle light on the left; so the expected behavior is that they can see the candle light. Any time that an area is revealed due to lighting via lights and LoS, it is automatically added to the token's FoW data. In the example above, the token can't see anything between the lamp it's holding and the candle in the distance because the intervening space is not illuminated by either the candle or the lamp.

Regards,
JPG

[Zarestia]

Also, remember that if you are in the GM view, you will see many more elements than a standard player.
54159

I know, that's why I stated that I'm always in Player Preview Mode and I manually switch the characters.


Any time that an area is revealed due to lighting via lights and LoS, it is automatically added to the token's FoW data.

With that sentence and another technical explanation/interpretation I got from a fellow community member I think I understand. I've never observed such drastic light edges in the dozen of sessions I've DMed with lighting before, so it seemed strange and counterintuitive to me. I didn't want to come across as being mean.

Anyway, I'll stop using ambient light for now until the known issue is fixed.
My lights on that particular map seem to need some finer placement and setting adjustments, that I can handle.

[LordEntrails]

With that sentence and another technical explanation/interpretation I got from a fellow community member I think I understand. I've never observed such drastic light edges in the dozen of sessions I've DMed with lighting before, so it seemed strange and counterintuitive to me. I didn't want to come across as being mean.
The hardness of an edge or the "fall- off" of a light can be controlled on each light source, and for both the bright and dim ranges. The default values are fairly "hard" intentionally. This is so that people can understand the game mechanics behind the two values. i.e. is the target in bright light or dim light so I can determine attack modifiers? But, if desired, the GM can change the default values so that their are no noticeable edges between bright - dim - dark.

[Moon Wizard]

We are looking at some options in the future to potentially have an option to be able to disable FoW. If so, turning off FoW for your campaign might meet your aesthetic needs better, though you would lose any FoW tracking when you do that.

Regards,
JPG