Player on a MAC can see the whole map

[rkohli]

We have a group playing, most on PCs but one player on a MAC. When the DM reveals a map with line of sight and lighting on it the MAC player can see the whole map, the PC players see as expected. The MAC player doesn't have any senses such as dark vision. We are using the 5E ruleset. Any suggestions? The DM has reverted to using the mask, but shouldn't need to do that with LoS working etc?

[Moon Wizard]

That's the first I've heard of an issue like that. I'd have to get a copy of the campaign folder zipped up from the GM; as well as the name of the map and the name of the PC the player was running.

Regards,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

That's the first I've heard of an issue like that. I'd have to get a copy of the campaign folder zipped up from the GM; as well as the name of the map and the name of the PC the player was running.

Regards,
JPG

I've seen this as well but didn't think much of it other than that is really weird. I'll see if I can reproduce.

[solanti]

Sorry can't upload campaign zip - too large.

The problem occurs on maps "Fortress-Players" and "Grove-Players", both part of the Sunless Citadel component of Tales of the Yawning Portal.

It was player/device related, not character related, as we swapped ownership of characters around to check that.

Here's how Fortress-Players looks to the player using a Mac computer. Everyone else just saw the lower right as you'd expect.

[Moon Wizard]

Can you at least upload the campaign folder without the images subfolder? I need to try to recreate this locally, and I need to have the data to do that.

Regards,
JPG

[solanti]

That seems to have worked.

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks. I'll take a look tomorrow. It's really late here in West US. :)

Regards,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

Same issue as the picture above. Appears that lights are visible and not respecting LoS

[Temmpest]

I have a player who will be using a Mac on Sunday. I hope this gets fixed before then!

[rkohli]

Looks to me to be very similar to what the GM would see when they turn on Player Vision Preview.

[Temmpest]

We have a group playing, most on PCs but one player on a MAC. When the DM reveals a map with line of sight and lighting on it the MAC player can see the whole map, the PC players see as expected. The MAC player doesn't have any senses such as dark vision. We are using the 5E ruleset. Any suggestions? The DM has reverted to using the mask, but shouldn't need to do that with LoS working etc?

Are any other Mac users experiencing this issue?

[Lo Zeno]

I had a player yesterday on a Mac experiencing the same issue, but the "extra" lights disappeared when she clicked on her character's token on the map (selecting it). The lights would reappear when she un-selected her token.
Unfortunately I use a lot of extensions so I have yet to test without extensions to make sure it's not one of those causing it, I'm trying to find a day in which I can connect with the player as I don't have a working Mac at the moment to test it by myself.

[Ulric]

I run my games using a Mac and several of my players use Macs and we have not had any issues.

[rkohli]

Have you been able to reproduce this at all?

[Temmpest]

I had my session on Sunday. The only Mac player did not have this issue.

[rkohli]

This is what our PC players see
53635

This is what our Mac players sees
53636

It seems that line of sight is not working on the Mac. Is it computed on the GM's PC and distributed to the clients or does each client do its own LoS calculations?

[Temmpest]

We're playing the exact same map! My Mac player is not having this issue. Try disabling all the extensions and see if it's still happening.

[Moon Wizard]

Ok, I tested both the provided campaigns here locally running a server from Windows (Windows 11) and running a player client on Mac (Macbook Pro 2019, Catalina 10.15).

@solanti, @rkohli,
I was able to bring up the shared maps without any abnormal display of the map. Fortress wasn't shared, but I tried sharing that one, then adding the player token to the map.

@rhagelstrom,
There were no shared maps in your campaign; so I tried sharing some of the Tomb of Annihilation maps without any issue. Again, shared the map (completely dark on player), then adding token (shared correct view).

Given these tests, I'm wondering if this has something to do with specific settings/steps on the GM side for the map when shared, or possibly Mac OS version or Mac hardware.

For those having issues, can you attempt to remember the exact steps you followed after loading the adventure module and sharing the maps?
(i.e. open image, unlock, adjust settings, relock, drag faction token, etc.)
(For example, Tomb of Annihilation Rotten Halls has only LoS defined; so only LoS option is on. I tried sharing with and without toggling lighting and player preview; and again after reverting and adding player token.)

Also, can I get the specific Mac machine details purchased (i.e. Macbook 2019, Mac Mini, etc.), as well as the OS they are running (Catalina, Big Sur, Monterey, and version)

Thanks,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

Also, can I get the specific Mac machine details purchased (i.e. Macbook 2019, Mac Mini, etc.), as well as the OS they are running (Catalina, Big Sur, Monterey, and version)


Server:
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro18,3
Chip: Apple M1 Pro
Total Number of Cores: 10 (8 performance and 2 efficiency)
Memory: 16 GB
System Firmware Version: 7459.121.3
OS Loader Version: 7459.121.3
OS: 12.4 Monterey

Client:
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro15,4
Chip: Quad-Core Intel Core i5
Processor Speed: 1.4GHz
Number of Processors: 1
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache : 6MB
Memory: 8GB
System Firmware Version: 1715.81.2.0.0
OS: 11.6.4 Big Sur

[Moon Wizard]

I might need to set up some time with someone who can host a campaign with an M1 Mac, so I can connect with my Intel Mac, and see if that's related.

Regards,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

I might need to set up some time with someone who can host a campaign with an M1 Mac, so I can connect with my Intel Mac, and see if that's related.

Regards,
JPG

Sure. Just let me know.

[Moon Wizard]

I'll be around 10am-12pm Pacific time tomorrow, if you are able to leave your server up running on the M1 Mac.
Then, you can direct message me the name of the shared map to look at (if more than one), which PC to connect as, and any password to the campaign.
Make sure to share the map, place the PC on the map, and clear the PC owner (if any).

Thanks,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

I'll be around 10am-12pm Pacific time tomorrow, if you are able to leave your server up running on the M1 Mac.
Then, you can direct message me the name of the shared map to look at (if more than one), which PC to connect as, and any password to the campaign.
Make sure to share the map, place the PC on the map, and clear the PC owner (if any).

Thanks,
JPG

Server is up. No password. I have a client currently connected (Mac) and it is showing the issue. Same map I first saw the issue. Feel free to connect and grab a PC. This is a test copy of the original so feel free to do whatever you need

[rhagelstrom]

I'll have it up tomorrow

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks.

I just logged in to the character Asta on your campaign; and double-clicked on token which opened the Golden Hall map.
Is this one of the maps that you were having issues with?

I tried on both Mac (Intel) and Windows; and the display of this map looked the same on both. (see attached image).

If this was one of the problem maps, then that would rule out any inherent issue with transferring data between different Mac hardware platforms (M1 to Intel).

Regards,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

I'm connected right now with my wife's Mac and I'm seeing it. Same map. Maybe this will remain elusive.

[Moon Wizard]

I'm not doubting that it's happening for sure. I'm just lost on how to track down what might be causing the issue, since it's not consistently an issue for all Macs or certain types of Macs.

Anybody else have any ideas on things that might be happening?

The only random idea I have is that somehow data is getting filtered by some sort of packet inspection firewall. That seems unlikely, but it would explain if partial data removed.

Regards,
JPG

[jaharmi]

I'm on a Mac and all of my players are on Macs — mixture of Intel and Apple Silicon — so I might be able to tell you after this weekend.

[rhagelstrom]

I did a bit more testing on this issue. I hosted with a Windows host. Tested with Intel Mac client still has this issue (see image). 54953. I also tested with a M1 Mac as a client and I did not see the issue. I'll also point out (more on this later in another thread) that the Mac that is seeing this issue has a really high GPU load 80%+ constantly even with no map/images displayed and no character selected. /vsync doesn't reduce the load but setting it progressively higher induces more "sluggish" behavior all around, even typing in the chat has a noticeable delay

[Moon Wizard]

I didn't see the issue of the Mac seeing the whole map when I tested on Windows host/ Mac player in post #25. In fact, I haven't heard anything else about this, since the last round of posts in July.

When you test on the Mac client and you see the issue, can you bring up the /console and click the Compile Logs button? Perhaps there is something in the logs that might provide some information.
What are the specs on the Intel Mac client? I don't see this on my MacBook Pro 2019 (Intel chip).

Regards,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

I didn't see the issue of the Mac seeing the whole map when I tested on Windows host/ Mac player in post #25. In fact, I haven't heard anything else about this, since the last round of posts in July.

When you test on the Mac client and you see the issue, can you bring up the /console and click the Compile Logs button? Perhaps there is something in the logs that might provide some information.
What are the specs on the Intel Mac client? I don't see this on my MacBook Pro 2019 (Intel chip).

Regards,
JPG

I also tried deleting the FG app and the FG user directory. I reinstalled and it still persists although it did remember the user/password so maybe I didn't quite delete everything?

[Moon Wizard]

So, just doing a quick review of the log information, some things that stood out:

* Good - Running the most current FGU version
* Good - Mac OS version is supported.

* Bad - Graphics card does not meet recommended minimum memory (minimum 2GB, card reporting 1.5GB)
* Bad - Graphics card reports it is running in low power mode.
* Bad - Network appears to be blocking URLs and lobby connection at multiple points (and noticed that network security is forcing connection through relay)
* Bad - Unity engine is reporting that libraries don't match symbol files (which concerns me that files are being "adjusted" by security software)

My guess at this point is that the graphics card in this machine is just not powerful enough to run FGU, as it does not meet the minimum specs and the scenario described appears to be tied to graphics shader not being able to perform correctly.

Regards,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

I'll give you the under 2GB. Maybe that is the problem. I have some more ideas on testing

The network errors. My internet was down for a while when I started up, so that is expected

The libraries don't match symbol files I've always seen those in logs on both mine and my wife's Macs. Both have had FGU installed since beta and been updated since. When I reinstalled the app those went away but I'll see if they come back next time there is a binary update. There is no security software other than what MacOS is doing. Maybe this is related to the M1 crashing on update bug?

[Moon Wizard]

The library symbol errors might be related to the updating the executable; but that should go away on reboot since the issue appears to be security caching based on file inode values.

Regards,
JPG

[macDsinfo]

so the internal graphics card on recent macbookpros is not enough to run fgu properly (I see the vram is ~1500MB in the system report)?

[Moon Wizard]

My MacBook Pro 2019 is showing 4080MB in the logs (or 4GB).

Questions
* What version of MacBook Pro are you running on that is reporting only 1.5G?
* Is there a separate discrete graphics card vs. motherboard graphics card in specific MacBook models?
* If so, is there a mechanism to specify which graphics card an application should be using? (Used to be something that occasionally came up on Windows laptop; and controllable via graphics driver software)

Regards,
JPG

[LordEntrails]

so the internal graphics card on recent macbookpros is not enough to run fgu properly (I see the vram is ~1500MB in the system report)?
1500MB does not meet system requirements. You will have to see if it is playable for you with such specifications. A lot will depend upon the maps, how large they are, how many LOS elements they have, and the lighting used.

[macDsinfo]

Thought you were referring to graphics memory…

[Moon Wizard]

I am referring to graphics memory being too low. There are separate requirements for system memory and graphic memory.

Regards,
JPG

[macDsinfo]

I am referring to graphics memory being too low. There are separate requirements for system memory and graphic memory.

Regards,
JPG
Right, which is why I asked. Unless I am reading something incorrectly, it looks like the video memory of a 2020 MacBookPro is ~1500MB, which is lower than the threshold you list upstream in this thread.

I apologize if I am mistaken here. And thanks, in advance, for clarification…

[Moon Wizard]

It looks like the latest MacBooks are specified with "unified" memory, which I assume means that the graphics card and the CPU are sharing memory. If that's the case, then the 8GB MacBook models may not allocate enough memory to programs for graphics card usage; or you might have to manually adjust the allocation somewhere in the Mac OS settings. Even if you can find the settings, I'm just not sure if 8GB of "unified" memory is going to be sufficient for everything to run correctly.

Also, it may just be the graphics chips in that version of MacBook that is the issue, but I don't have any way to test either theory.

Regards,
JPG

[rhagelstrom]

If I install windows in Parallels and then install FG on Windows and then run FG on windows on top of OSX, there isn't any issue that I can see so I don't think it is the silicon.

[macDsinfo]

It looks like the latest MacBooks are specified with "unified" memory, which I assume means that the graphics card and the CPU are sharing memory. If that's the case, then the 8GB MacBook models may not allocate enough memory to programs for graphics card usage; or you might have to manually adjust the allocation somewhere in the Mac OS settings. Even if you can find the settings, I'm just not sure if 8GB of "unified" memory is going to be sufficient for everything to run correctly.

Also, it may just be the graphics chips in that version of MacBook that is the issue, but I don't have any way to test either theory.

Regards,
JPGok. The screenshot I shared shows 16gb memory, but an intel iris graphics with 1536mb. Not sure if I can change the allocations or not. I only posted because the 2gb graphics memory seems quite large for the application, and I am surprised that a recent MacBook Pro doesn’t have the hardware to run this properly… not sure if I am missing something… thanks again.

[Moon Wizard]

@rhagelstrom,

Unfortunately, I have not been able to recreate the issue locally; and I only have the logs showing that the graphics card is not being allocated enough memory. Also, I do not have any other reports of this issue on Mac in general. So, I’m not sure what we can do with this machine at this point.

Perhaps when running in Parallels, it is getting a different graphics memory configuration…

Regards,
JPG

[plap3014]

Sorry can't upload campaign zip - too large.

The problem occurs on maps "Fortress-Players" and "Grove-Players", both part of the Sunless Citadel component of Tales of the Yawning Portal.

It was player/device related, not character related, as we swapped ownership of characters around to check that.

Here's how Fortress-Players looks to the player using a Mac computer. Everyone else just saw the lower right as you'd expect.

We have the same problem with one of my players, he have the following config:
MacBook Pro 13 pouces 2019. Processeur Intel Core i7 1,7GHz 4 coeurs. RAM 16GB; Carte graphique INTEL IRIS Plus Graphics 645, 1,5GB

and see all light on on the map.

@Moon Wizard : what you need from is computer to see?

Regards

[Moon Wizard]

It's the exact same issue as the other user; and even looks like the same Mac model. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this machine does not technically meet the minimum system requirements for using FG, according to all of our official announcements.

Even if it did, there is nothing that we do differently between different Mac machines (i.e. all Macs run the same version, and are built using the same Unity engine version), so it seems like it's an issue with the MacBook Pro 13 machines not having enough graphics card capability to support FGU. Unfortunately, it's not something that we have the tools to identify and fix a machine that does not have the minimum specs.

Regards,
JPG

[Ulric]

It is interesting that these are Intel processor Macs. I played FGC and FGU exclusively on Mac. I am currently running 5e on a Mac mini M1 with 8 GB and SFRPG on a MacBook Pro M1 13” with 8GB. I have not seen any issues with these machines. They actually run faster than on my Intel Macs that have 16GB. I will dust off the Intel Macs and see how they are running FGU.

[bmos]

It's the exact same issue as the other user; and even looks like the same Mac model. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this machine does not technically meet the minimum system requirements for using FG, according to all of our official announcements.
To clarify for anyone else who is confused by this, the requirement is 2GB VRAM and that Iris graphics solution only has 1.5GB VRAM. macOS FG Requirements: https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/1136984087/System+Requirements#macOS-X

[Ulric]

I was able to run FGU and the Sunless Citadel with LOS without any LOS problems. I used my old Macbook Pro 2015 16GB system ram and 1.5MB VRAM. I can definitely see there might be issues depending on what other apps you are running at the same time.