Large scale assets dissappeared

[Artimer1]

I was wondering if anyone has had experience with creating larger maps with FG assets who might be able to fill me in on what happened:

I am building a map of an island that is (with some surrounding water included) about 4.2 miles across. I thought it would be cool to have the map be to scale, and to have the different towns be just on the map wherever they are on the island. To accomplish this, my grid is 50x50 for player tokens, and the background is made of larger images put together, making the entire map 221,760px x 221,760px. I had only gotten the water, island dirt, water fx and some other assets when I needed to delete a layer. The delete button was not responding which was strange, so I "locked" the image and unlocked it. But when I unlocked it, its as if I had not put any assets in at all. The strange part is that the nested folders I had are all still there with the assets inside them. I tried zooming out to see if I was just not in the right zoom level, but still nothing. I exited fantasy grounds and reloaded the campaign and the image file is still messed up with these ghost assets.

My first thought was that I corrupted the file due to the absurd size, but I remember in a video I watched on FGU where someone commented that it doesn't matter how big your map is when you are building a map with FGU assets, since they are just being rendered based on their coordinates and numeric dimensions... is that only for when I am running the game and sending stuff to other players? When we make larger maps in FGU, do we need to be careful about making maps that are too big? If so, how big is too big? If I were to scale things down to absurd proportions in the other direction, would FGU run better due to the smaller asset sizes?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Zacchaeus]

Your image size (I think - if I've done the arithmetic correctly) will be 143Gb. So that's likely your problem.

Recommended image size is 4kx4k pixels; so you are several hundreds of times over that.

[Jiminimonka]

I was wondering if anyone has had experience with creating larger maps with FG assets who might be able to fill me in on what happened:

I am building a map of an island that is (with some surrounding water included) about 4.2 miles across. I thought it would be cool to have the map be to scale, and to have the different towns be just on the map wherever they are on the island. To accomplish this, my grid is 50x50 for player tokens, and the background is made of larger images put together, making the entire map 221,760px x 221,760px. I had only gotten the water, island dirt, water fx and some other assets when I needed to delete a layer. The delete button was not responding which was strange, so I "locked" the image and unlocked it. But when I unlocked it, its as if I had not put any assets in at all. The strange part is that the nested folders I had are all still there with the assets inside them. I tried zooming out to see if I was just not in the right zoom level, but still nothing. I exited fantasy grounds and reloaded the campaign and the image file is still messed up with these ghost assets.

My first thought was that I corrupted the file due to the absurd size, but I remember in a video I watched on FGU where someone commented that it doesn't matter how big your map is when you are building a map with FGU assets, since they are just being rendered based on their coordinates and numeric dimensions... is that only for when I am running the game and sending stuff to other players? When we make larger maps in FGU, do we need to be careful about making maps that are too big? If so, how big is too big? If I were to scale things down to absurd proportions in the other direction, would FGU run better due to the smaller asset sizes?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

It is way way too big. Nice idea though

[Artimer1]

@Zacchaeus or @Jiminimonka Does that mean that if I shrink the assets down, and make my image far smaller than the recommended 4kx4k pixels, will the map tend to respond very quickly? Like during gameplay, where one PC has a not-so-good internet connection, does there tend to be a difference between an image that is 4kx4k pixels, all made from FGU assets, versus the "same" image just made with shrunken-down assets and tokens so that the whole thing is 500x500 pixels?

[Artimer1]

Your image size (I think - if I've done the arithmetic correctly) will be 143Gb. So that's likely your problem.

Recommended image size is 4kx4k pixels; so you are several hundreds of times over that.

Another question so I can be sure I am doing my math right - I assumed the following:

1. That the "size" in the grid definition on an image (map) is based on pixels no matter what, so that the default 50x50 grid size is actually making each cell in the grid 50px wide and tall.
2. That the "size" in the layer definition of an image (map) is based on the defined grid cells no matter what. So that given the default grid being defined at 50x50 pixels, when I create an image file from the water background image in the FG coastal map pack, and the size of that first layer is listed as 30x30, then the actual pixel size of that layer is 50*30 x 50*30 which is 1500 x 1500

Are those two things correct?

Also - you've mentioned the recommended 4kx4k pixels across, but is there a recommended upper limit to the number of assets we stamp into a map? I remember hearing someone say somewhere in a FGU map making video that it doesn't really matter how many assets there are, that it shouldn't effect the speed of the map being sent to a GMs players since its the coordinates and dimension data of each asset that is being sent out to everyone, which is way less data than the actual image its self. But it is still some data though, so there must be some sort of upper limit? I guess it might be so high that it doesn't matter, if that is the case, then sorry for the unnecessary question - I was just curious :confused:

[Jiminimonka]

Another question so I can be sure I am doing my math right - I assumed the following:

1. That the "size" in the grid definition on an image (map) is based on pixels no matter what, so that the default 50x50 grid size is actually making each cell in the grid 50px wide and tall.
2. That the "size" in the layer definition of an image (map) is based on the defined grid cells no matter what. So that given the default grid being defined at 50x50 pixels, when I create an image file from the water background image in the FG coastal map pack, and the size of that first layer is listed as 30x30, then the actual pixel size of that layer is 50*30 x 50*30 which is 1500 x 1500

Are those two things correct?

Also - you've mentioned the recommended 4kx4k pixels across, but is there a recommended upper limit to the number of assets we stamp into a map? I remember hearing someone say somewhere in a FGU map making video that it doesn't really matter how many assets there are, that it shouldn't effect the speed of the map being sent to a GMs players since its the coordinates and dimension data of each asset that is being sent out to everyone, which is way less data than the actual image its self. But it is still some data though, so there must be some sort of upper limit? I guess it might be so high that it doesn't matter, if that is the case, then sorry for the unnecessary question - I was just curious :confused:

Your players each need to have high end gaming rigs as would you, and high speed internet.

Try 4 players connected with that map and see how long before your computer crashes....

[Artimer1]

Your players each need to have high end gaming rigs as would you, and high speed internet.

Try 4 players connected with that map and see how long before your computer crashes....

Wait are you saying that the default sizes of the maps require high end gaming rigs? Or are you saying that Zacchaeus' recommendation of 4kx4k pixels need high end gaming rigs?

[Jiminimonka]

Wait are you saying that the default sizes of the maps require high end gaming rigs? Or are you saying that Zacchaeus' recommendation of 4kx4k pixels need high end gaming rigs?

No. I'm talking about your 143 zigabyte world map ;)

[Artimer1]

No. I'm talking about your 143 zigabyte world map ;)

Ohhh ha gotcha

[LordEntrails]

The way FGU does maps it is not simple to say what can and can not work.

For instance, if you take one background tile and use it a thousand time to make a very large map, fgu will have no problem rending that for you or your players. Does not matter what the pixel resolution is.

But, if you take 1000 different background tiles and use each once to make a very large map, then you will have problems.

So, you could take 5 background tiles, 5 wall tiles, and 5 decoration tiles and make a very large map and be ok. BUT, that does not account for using LOS or lights.

Say each of those wall tiles have 10 Los entities, and you use each wall 1000 tes, you now have 10 x 1000 x 5 Los elements. Uh oh! And if you use 1000 decorative items that have lights on them you have a 1000 lights. Way too many.

[Laerun]

The way FGU does maps it is not simple to say what can and can not work.

For instance, if you take one background tile and use it a thousand time to make a very large map, fgu will have no problem rending that for you or your players. Does not matter what the pixel resolution is.

But, if you take 1000 different background tiles and use each once to make a very large map, then you will have problems.

So, you could take 5 background tiles, 5 wall tiles, and 5 decoration tiles and make a very large map and be ok. BUT, that does not account for using LOS or lights.

Say each of those wall tiles have 10 Los entities, and you use each wall 1000 tes, you now have 10 x 1000 x 5 Los elements. Uh oh! And if you use 1000 decorative items that have lights on them you have a 1000 lights. Way too many.

Just to clarify, did he/you import 3rd party assets into Fantasy Grounds, or are you actually using some tiles, brushes, and art assets from the FGU Art subscription.