Swords and Wizardry Complete Rules feedback Thread.

[bayne7400]

Swords and Wizardry Complete Rules FORGE LINK (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/649/view)

The Swords and Wizardry Complete Rules contains the Player, Spells & Magic, Monsters, and Referee Book(s) by Matt Finch. These modules are used with the Free Swords and Wizardry (White Box OSR) ruleset.

FREE Ruleset LINK (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/612/view)


This product contains four (4) separate modules.


The Player Book, with all classes, races, equipment and the basic rules you need to play them game
The Monster Book which contains over 150 NPC records and Monster Descriptions broken down by HD. Ready to drag and drop into your game
The Referee Book which contains detailed rules for siege combat, mass combat, and ship combat. It also contains Magic item and treasure tables.
The Spells and Magic Book. This book contains spells for Druids, Clerics and Magic Users as well as the rules governing magical research. (over 120 spell records and tables)



Please post any feedback to the S&W Core Books to this thread.

[bayne7400]

Mythmere pushed a small update to the Core Books today. We fixed a few minor typos. Thanks for the feedback.

[Szabtom]

Hi,

Saving throws do not seem to work as I expected and I am curious why.

With Saving Throw: 11 and bonus +1, I observed the following:

- A minus 1 modifier is applied to the die roll, which is the opposite of how a saving throw bonus works (the aim is to roll high)
- The roll fails or succeeds based on the un-modified die roll. In this example, a roll of 11 succeeds, even though a result of 10 is shown (due to the minus 1 modification applied).

Expected way of working:
- the +modifier increases the die roll result
- the save is made successfully when the modified die roll result is equal to or higher than the ST value

53269

[bayne7400]

Yup that is right I got got my wires crossed. Ill get this updated today thanks!

[Bresnod]

Was trying to create a multiclass character, Fighter/Magic User/Thief. The character sheet was only allowing for 2 classes. Am I missing something?

[bayne7400]

I only automated two classes.

[Myrdin Potter]

From the rules under Elves: "Elven player characters may be Fighter/Magic-Users, Thieves, or Fighter/Magic-User/Thieves."

When multiclassing as a Fighter, the Strength to-hit and damage bonus does not turn on.

Short Bow is missing damage dice.

Long Sword +1 weighs 60 lbs?

[bayne7400]

I sent Matt an update several months ago to fix those issues in the player book. I will Ping him again.

I'll get the fighter multiclass strength issue updated after the Holiday.

[bayne7400]

I updated the reference manuals and sent them on to Mythmere Games for upload.

[Szabtom]

Yup that is right I got got my wires crossed. Ill get this updated today thanks!

Hi,

Unfortunately, the modifier under "save rolls" does not seem to have any effect.

A suggestion for a minor improvement: on the Abilities tab the Class Abilities section has the list edit buttons, but the Skills section does not. It would be nice to have the buttons for both or for neither, only for consistency (both can be edited with the right-click menu).

And a request: is it possible to use a lighter gray color for the char sheet and the value boxes on the char sheet? I find the black letters and numbers a bit hard to read against the current dark grey background.

[bayne7400]

You can use any free FG theme with this ruleset.

When you open the window to add your save modifier are you rolling on that window? That is for special cases where a character has a specific bonus to say poison or fear.

I'll look at skills. That is meant to be drag and drop but you should be able to right click.

[Szabtom]

Thanks for the quick response!

You were right. The modifiers work when rolling from the modifier window - I did not think to check that.
The thing about Skills is really just cosmetics. Right-clicking works, I just thought the red and green buttons to edit the list could be added.
I will look for a suitable theme.

Thanks

[TheMetal1]

New to FGU but picked up the S&W ruleset. As Multi-class is available, I'm trying to build a Dwarven Fighter/Thief or Fighter/Cleric. However, the character sheet doesn't seem to want to take another class. My assumption is that it is drag and drop into the "Class" line. While this worked for one class, nothing happens with adding a second class. Any assistance with this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[bayne7400]

Hey Metal. Glad your trying out SW. So the ruleset does support multi class. See the Image below. Looking at it I should probably move that next to class. Let me know if you have any questions. You can use to discord to sometimes get a faster answer.

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[TheMetal1]

Hey Metal. Glad your trying out SW. So the ruleset does support multi class. See the Image below. Looking at it I should probably move that next to class. Let me know if you have any questions. You can use to discord to sometimes get a faster answer.

56070

bayne7400

Thank you. FYI, when I drag and drop the classes into the slots you show in the picture. No abilities are added, nor do their names appear. And I'm still only able to see one class on the main part of the character sheet. Should it be this way or should I be seeing two classes on the sheet? Thanks in advance.

[bayne7400]

First: did you hit the plus sign? See the second arrow. Plus signs usually mean "add something". In this case you adding fields to drop the class.

I look today. What you are expecting is
what is supposed to happen. I'm working on an update and I'll see what's going on with it today

[bayne7400]

Looks like you just need to hut that button. All abilities stats etc are populating

56085

[TheMetal1]

Ok, I see what I need to do now. I was dropping and dragging the class into the "Class" line on the "Main" tab. That only allowed me to have one class. If we click on the magnifying glass right before the "XP" on the "Main" tab, this brings up the option to have multi-class. When I dragged the class into the square it didn't populate. However, when I dropped it into the line, it did. Issue resolved. Thank you.

On another note, I've been messing around with creating Rappan Athuk since I got the ruleset. I figure the best way to get familiar with the ruleset is to make an adventure. It's a long road, but I've been wanting to do it for quite a while. Any tips on working with existing adventures?

Additionally, Is there a way to choose between ascending or descending AC? It appears the descending armor class is default.

[bayne7400]

The ruleset uses the matrix provided in the book as that was the primary listed. The other games it is compatible with such as Operation White Box uses ascending AC but the author listed that as the primary method. It really comes down to item records and time invested to have it both ways.

As far as Adventure. I am not sure the question. You could grab any store adventure and work on converting the monsters and items. The maps , story entries etc should all be compatible.

Also note that any Smite Works theme should work with this ruleset. There are a few free ones you can use on your extensions menu. That second picture was the Baron theme on the Forge.

[Grimm Pickins]

Hey Bayne,

I've been waffling between OSE and S&W (I have both), and I see a good amount of YouTube style tutorial style videos for the earlier - but nothing for the latter. I'm curious if there is any plan to do an overview video of the features of this ruleset?

Also, does Mythmere (or Frog God) have any intent of releasing adventures for this ruleset? I know a number of the FG modules are in the works for 5e (or at least were), and many of these had S&W versions... I'm eagerly awaiting to see what becomes of Rappan Athuk - even if I have to convert it myself. Gods, that is a monster of a tome.

Thanks.

[bayne7400]

So a few things happened. Frog God does not own SW and I believe they are moving to make stuff for OSE. There was a split and Matt took SW core rules when he left Frog God games. The old adventures I believe are at Frog God Games still. (I am not 100% certain)

Second Potter and I intended to make this a general white box OSR ruleset and provide the content on the Forge. That is why you can toggle between games in the options menu and it actually changes the character sheet and rollers. At first everyone agreed to move forward but then Drivethru RPG language changed a bit with regard to exclusive rights non exclusive rights and VTTs. Basically these small game makers would have had to give up money to port their game on FG. Their DTRPG sales are >>> then any sales they would get on FG. So that's why only Operation White Box is officially supported and we never released White Star or Eldritch Tales. Although both should function on this ruleset.
Operation WB (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/701/view)

I will continue to support this ruleset and if people have suggestions I will try my best to incorporate them. Both SW and OSE are similar in what they can do. OSE gets more updates because frankly more people play it and I get more feedback on it. I personally do not plan on making more content for this ruleset. However if anyone else wants to and publish it on the forge I will do my best to support it.

Hope this helps.

[Grimm Pickins]

I knew that Matt Finch had taken back control of S&W, and - yes - Frog God still sells the S&W versions of the adventures, but I'm uncertain of whether or not they will continue to release Lost Lands stuff for S&W. It would be a shame if they didn't, but I realize how niche that is in comparison to 5e. I wasn't aware of the DriveThru changes however, thanks for making me aware.

I like OSE, and I'm a Patreon of Gavin's for Dolmenwood, so I may continue down that road - though, honestly, it came out at a time where I was already deeply into Labyrinth Lord and Lamentations at my 'real life' tables (it seemed a bit redundant in that aspect, though the layout is a thing of beauty). The releases from Necrotic Gnome make OSE a far more tempting option - so I thank you in helping me narrow my decision :)

[TheMetal1]

bayne7400,

I'm working on Rappa Athuk for the S&W Ruleset. I'm familiar with creating Items, encounters, NPCs, etc. However, how do I create spells?

As an example, in the Bandit Group 5 encounter - Turane and his trolls, the wizard has "stinking cloud" as a spell. Likely a holdover from the 3.X version. What I'm doing with spells is dropping them in an NPC's powers section, that way the Referee can see the spells in the Combat tracker. My first thought is to create the spell in the powers area of the NPC. But I wanted to see if there was another way I could do this so I don't have to recreate it every time (or in this case, whenever stinking cloud appears I pull up Turane and drop/drag it to the NPCs that needs it.

Any thoughts or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[bayne7400]

There is a spell menu on the sidebar. If you bought the books they have over 100 spells already input. Spells are drag and drop.

Buy this and all your dreams may come true..

https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/649/view

[TheMetal1]

There is a spell menu on the sidebar. If you bought the books they have over 100 spells already input. Spells are drag and drop.

Buy this and all your dreams may come true..

https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/649/view

+1 to this! Already picked it up using those features. I also picked up the hardcopy and PDF of S&W Complete. I appreciate the tip about the spells being in the sidebar.


And, because of this, I just realized that you CAN create spells with this feature! Thank you again. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Just finished the Bandit Groups. (Page 22 of 497 of the PDF, but progress is progress!)

[TheMetal1]

How does one show a racial or class bonus to savings throws for the Halfling of +4 to Magic under the "Abilities" tab? I can see the increase in the Halfing's missile bonus on the "Main" tab, but nothing is showing under the "Abilities" tab. The Dwarf's +4 to Magic doesn't show either,

It didn't auto-populate when I dropped in the Halfling or the Dwarf race. It does it for the Magic User's ST bonus, the Clerics ST bonus, the Monks ST Bonus, and the Druid's ST bonus.

Also wanted to double check that you still have to manually input it for in game saving throws, which is no issue for me. The PC needs to remember that! However, having it in the abilities section is a good reminder for the player.

[bayne7400]

Right by saves there is a magnifying glass. You can enter custom saves in there.

Saving throws are automated if triggered form casting a spell. If that is what you are referring to.

[TheMetal1]

First, thank you for pointing out the magnifying glass for ST. This feature will be helpful.

Second, apologies for not being clear!

My concern is that I think there is a ruleset issue/oversight/bug (or just me being ignorant!) with racial abilities.

Racial abilities for Savings Throws for Halflings and Dwarfs do not appear anywhere on the Character Sheet.

Other racial skills, like the Elven ability to find secret doors appear in the "Abilities" Tab under "Skills." The racial ability for enhanced senses, like Darkvision for elves, half-elves, and dwarfs, all appear under the "Main" Tab under "Senses."

The class abilities for the Saving Throw bonus work fine. They appear automatically in the "Abilities" Tab of the PC Character sheet under "Class Abilities." Examples of this are the Thief's or Magic User's savings throw bonus. There should be something similar on this tab for the racial savings throws, but there is not.

I'm reaching out to see if this was an error or if it is only occurring on my computer. Let me know thanks!

[bayne7400]

You open the magnifying glass and add it like this. SW only has one save. You can use this so people will not have to remember to put a +4 in the modifier box each time they roll a save against magic. The player can just click it. The racial skills and abilities are hard coded in based on SW RAW. I use a series of tables. I will also add that submenu for saves was added for a different White Box OSR game I incorporated into the ruleset (After I did SW). My original intent was to always have the player know how to play his character and use the modifier box. If you have a request for something that's great just let me know.
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[TheMetal1]

Bayne7400,

I'm trying to find the link to the "Table 17: Thieving Skills" (found on page 25 of S&WC PDF Ruebook). I looked under both the "Thief" class link and the "Thieving Skills" link. Unfortunately, they only describe the skills, they do not show the required roll per level/advancement. I went under images and for the Swords & Wizardry Players Manual, and again nothing, though they do have the assassin thief skills. There was nothing to be found under the reference manual for the Players Manual either.

Maybe I missed it. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!

[bayne7400]

ok so I cant explain why that chart is not in reference manual. I'll try and get Matt to update the module. But if you open the thief class record click over to the data tab at the top is a little magnifying class. You can find it there.

[TheMetal1]

bayne7400

My work continues on Rappan Athuk, I'm in Level 0B. Cloister of the Frog God (within the Vaults), around page 61. However, I already completed the Zelkor's Ferry's Area so I'm a bit further along.

Anyway, as I was inputting some NPCs, I noticed that the Monk class the Weapon Damage Bonus granted at 1st Level, instead of 2nd level (as in S&W complete). I didn't know if it was granted at 1st Level in the white box, so I figured I'd post.

I also noticed that the Alertness Ability for the Monk also includes Missile Deflection, was this intentional (alert - quick reaction to missile weapons) or simply an oversight as the ruleset has it as its own ability.

Let me know! And thank you again for getting this ruleset out!

EDIT: Thief-Type Skills are left out of the description in the Monk class as well. You can find by clicking on the magnifying glass under the data tab for Monk. Note, it is in the reference manual. However, what I noticed is there is no link for or description. This would be a helpful feature if it can be included.

An interim fix is pretty easy. Unlock the Monk Class, create a new description and add a new Class ability link. Then drag and drop to the new class ability.

V/R
TheMetal1

[bayne7400]

So Deflect missiles should be its own ability.

When I look at the PDF Matt sent me, abilities granted at level 1 have no level requirement. Those that have a level obtained have the level in parenthesis. Abilities like slow fall and Weapon damage change as the monk levels. The text clearly defines when and how it applies. Are you saying it is confusing you? If you have the players manual PDF look at page 20 and you can see what I mean. I will note it doesn't not appear the be consistent but neither is the PDF.

[TheMetal1]

No confusion. All the above is about misplaced or missing information.

What I'm saying is that the Deflect Missile Ability is not showing in the Monk Class. It is a typo as it is mixed in with Alertness Class Ability link, which might confuse some people. Recommend that in a future update Deflect Missile has its own Class ability link. The Thief-Type Skills should also have their own Class ability link as the only place one can find it is in the magnifying glass under the "Data" tab or the reference manual.

[TheMetal1]

Bayne

Ran a sample combat with my friend in FGU. Fighter verses Kobolds.

Automated combat works. However, Damage was dealt, but the status of the Monster remained unchanged and I couldn't figure out how to alter the status manually. The chat window did show the hit killed the kobold. But in the combat tracker, it showed not status change. As the player can also see the combat tracker, his view showed the Kobold as healthy.

Second, I can see that there are Death Markers in the Options but I do not know how to apply them.

Additionally, I recall from Fantasy Grounds Classic there was damage level status available on tokens and in the combat tracker. Is a feature that is left out for this ruleset or forthcoming?

Thanks in advance.
V/R
TheMetal1

[bayne7400]

Try adding monsters using an encounter and let me know if that works. Monster hp is auto rolled. So if you add and adjust it might not be working right

[bayne7400]

I was able to check this out. The npcs all have 0 hp since HP are random. I needed to update the script for directly adding a npc to the CT to roll the HP. It was working from encounter records still. Thanks for the report. Please run an update.

All your other issues are addressed with this fix.

Or should be....

[dpezet]

Super low priority, but the navigation titles for "Spells & Magic" and "Front Cover" in the reference manual are in reverse case as "sPELLS & mAGIC" and "fRONT cOVER"
56834

[bayne7400]

That's wild. How did I miss that lol. I'm not sure Matt uploaded the last update. I'll send him. New copy in the morning

Edit: I realized I did not convert that one . I'll send deadhand a message.

[Slayveen]

Super low priority, but the navigation titles for "Spells & Magic" and "Front Cover" in the reference manual are in reverse case as "sPELLS & mAGIC" and "fRONT cOVER"
56834

Hello Dpezet,

Would you mind listing any active themes or fonts you are using? I am unable to repeat this result in the default theme/font for Swords and Wizardry.

Thank you,

-Slayveen (Deadhand)

[bayne7400]

That looks like Sir Mottes theme.

[dpezet]

Would you mind listing any active themes or fonts you are using? I am unable to repeat this result in the default theme/font for Swords and Wizardry.

It looks like you hit the nail on the head. It is the theme causing the issue. I am using Sir Motte's Magnificent Darkness - Hearth Edition (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/12/view) in the screenshot. I tried a few other themes, and the words are in all capital letters. I'll submit a bug in Sir Motte's thread. Sorry for the false alarm.

[dpezet]

I've been playing S&W for years, but I am new to the ruleset in Fantasy Grounds, so I apologize if this is already covered somewhere else. I'm not sure if this is a "ruleset" or "rule book" issue, but, I have noticed an odd behavior with NPC records when viewing them and later adding them to the combat tracker. I've made a video showing it here:


https://youtu.be/tNonLTARZtU

If the video doesn't work, here are the quickest steps to recreate what I am seeing:


Load the S&W ruleset and at least the Monsters and Spells & Magic modules.
Open the NPCs window and find a monster that has records in both the Monsters book and the Spells & Magic book. I'll use the Bugbear for my example.
Click on the Bugbear record from the Monsters book.
When the window opens, you should notice that the original record now shows as modified in the NPCs list.
Say to yourself "Gee, I don't remember changing that record..."
Right click on the Bugbear record and choose Revert changes from the radial menu.

At this point, reverting the changes modifies the Bugbear's hit die to 0. If you add a "reverted" creature to the combat tracker you will get a console error stating:

[ERROR] Script execution error: [string "Swords and Wizardry:..ts/CombatManager2.lua"]:76: bad argument #2 to 'random' (interval is empty)
The error goes away if I close the campaign and re-open it. This only seems to happen for creatures that are listed in both books, so I suspect that has something to do with it. Either way, it is a pretty easy issue to work around. I just have to resist the temptation to revert changes on records I haven't modified.

[bayne7400]

I'm not around but I bet the spells module has no HD in the field. I'll check out when I get home. I'll also make sure you don't get that error. I can script around it. Thanks again for the detailed explanation

[bayne7400]

Ok so no idea why reverting is causing that. It is not something I can control because that it is a Fantasy Grounds program issue. The control has a default value so maybe that is causing it... But no idea really. I am going to try to re export as read only and see what happens

I did alter the script so it wont throw an error when adding to the CT if it sets die to 0.

Update: Exporting as a read only appears to fix the issue. Once we get Matt to update you will need to revert the entire module in your library.