Setting layer visibility

[Szabtom]

Hi,

I would like to set a layer invisible from the GM-only visibility status. It seems that once a layer is set to GM-only visibility, then the only way (that I know) to make it invisible is to cycle through the Visible-All status. Which reveals the layer to everyone, if only for a split second. I am specifically interested in the painting layer. I tried CTRL-click, ALT-click, SHIFT-click.

The cycle is Visible to All >> Invisible >> GM-only >> Visible to All.

Is it possible to change the visibility of a layer to a specific status, i.g. straight to invisible from the other two? Or do a reverse cycling, so I could set GM-only >> Invisible>> GM-only.

[JonStormbringer]

I don't believe there's a way, out of the box, to change the order of visibility. (It may be possible with an extension) I'm not sure, exactly, what you're trying to do, but here's a thread that may help you: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?67515-Layer-Visibility-Reveal-Order

Essentially, the suggestion is to set the transparency to zero before rotating through the visibility settings.

I hope that helps!

[Szabtom]

Hi JonStormbringer,

Thank you for your reply! I will check out the linked conversation.
Edit: The linked thread talks exactly about what I meant! I did not go so far back in my forum search - thanks for sharing it.
I will try the workaround with opacity, but that is a bit fiddly, and basically means that the invisible option should not be used at all or very rarely.


My use case scenario is the following:

I would like to share an overland map with the players. As they discover sites and places of interest (POI), I would add visual indicators to the map.
The method I thought I would use, would be to create a new painting layer for every such POI and create a marker with drawing or stamping, etc. This way I can make the marker visible when discovered.
If I do everything right, no mistakes and no changes in the game world, then this is fine. However, in many cases I would need to go back and make a correction or adjustment during the game, without the players seeing the layer:
- want to change the visual settings of the marker (color, opacity, size, etc.)
- want move - change the location
- want to replace the brush/stamp with another one i.e. use a different icon
- want to quickly add a new POI marker

Since the layer visibility cycle goes from "GM-only" to "visible to all" before going to "invisible", the layer would pop-up on the players' screen. This could also happen due to a wrong/misplaced .
By a wrong click of the mouse, I could also set from "invisible" to "visible to all" if I click twice instead of once, when trying to change to "GM-only".
Since the GM cannot see the content of "invisible" layers, I would need the GM-only view to be able to make alterations "behind the scenes" during play.

Hope this clarifies. The underlined part is important: this is about changing the layer visibility during game.

[JonStormbringer]

So there are two things you can do, if I'm understanding the issue correctly. You can rely on transparency or use the layer stack to prioritize your images--or use both.

I apologize if you already know what I'm about to say, but not everyone has used photoshop or other programs with layers. Think of your layers as a stack. Whatever is on top is going to have primacy over what's below it. So, if you wanted to change an X to an O, you would initially have the X at the top of the stack. To change it to an O, you could just drag the O layer above the X layer. (And then quickly hide the x layer, if you need to)

Let me try and explain by example. I've done a tarokka card reading for my table a couple times. It looked to the players, during a live session, like I was almost dealing/flipping the cards in front of their eyes, all using the layer stack and visibility. (Sorry this will be image intensive)

The initial image is what the players first see, a red velvet table cloth. Notice everything is invisible except the graphic I'm using for the tabletop.

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Next, I begin "Dealing" the cards, using the visibility options. In this image, I've only dealt the first card, but have revealed two cards via visibility (I made CB-1 and The Darklord cards visible). The Darklord card is directly underneath the CB-01 card. (CB=card back). Because the Darklord card is below the cb-1 card , it can't be seen because it falls under the cb-1 card in the layer stack.

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Now I've revealed all 10 images, but to the players, it looks like I've only revealed 5 card backs.

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Next, I flip/reveal the first card, The Dark Lord. I simply hide CB-01 and because the darklord card is directly below it in the stack, it becomes visible to the players.

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Here are all the cards revealed. In game, I reveal the cards during the session/live one at a time, explaining each card as I flip it over--in my best fortune teller voice! :P

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[JonStormbringer]

Second post because of 5 image limit per post.

Also, I can reveal cards, just by changing the order of the of the Layer Stack, instead of using the visibility clicker. Here is an example with the Dark Lord card drug above the CB-01 card. (All cards are visible)

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Hopefully, I haven't confused you. More importantly I hope that helps or at least gives you another option.

Good luck!

[Zacchaeus]

Similarly if you have all the things you want to mark on the map in a layer on its own you can make them all invisible and then make that particular layer visible when you need to.

[JonStormbringer]

Similarly if you have all the things you want to mark on the map in a layer on its own you can make them all invisible and then make that particular layer visible when you need to.

Yes, meant to add that to my post, but forgot. This, IMO, is the easiest and most versatile option.

[Szabtom]

I appreciate the time you took to explain all that, JonStormbringer. Clear and super useful!

This card situation was all set up in advance, right? How would you change a card on the fly, for instance replace the Dark lord with another card, while the game session is in progress?

[Zacchaeus]

As long as the Cards are on different layers you can make one visible whilst making the other invisible.

[Szabtom]

Similarly if you have all the things you want to mark on the map in a layer on its own you can make them all invisible and then make that particular layer visible when you need to.

Thanks Zacchaeus. But I need individual hide-reveal possibility for each POI marker, since as the party travels, they only find one of them at a time. e.g. a secret cave, a lair, a witch's hut. They could also move or change or perhaps get destroyed.

Is there a limit to the number of layers an image can have? I would not try to store an entire campaign world map in one image, but it would be useful to know if I can add 20 or 100 markers (layers).

[Szabtom]

As long as the Cards are on different layers you can make one visible whilst making the other invisible.

Sure but that raises my original point about cycling the visibility status.

And you cannot work with a layer if it is invisible, or covered by another layer on top of it.

[Zacchaeus]

There's no physical limit as far as I know. I suppose it depends on how huge this is going to be. A reasonably sized map with 20-30 layers isn't a problem.

[Szabtom]

I see, thank you.

[LordEntrails]

An idea... use pins for the locations. It won't leave a nice map with revealed i.agez for each location. But instead pin a story entry to each location. Then when the players find that location, share the pin with them. Their map will then ha e pins on the discovered locations, and they can also open the linked story entry.

That's how I've done this In the past.

[JonStormbringer]

I appreciate the time you took to explain all that, JonStormbringer. Clear and super useful!

This card situation was all set up in advance, right? How would you change a card on the fly, for instance replace the Dark lord with another card, while the game session is in progress?

Yes, I have this setup in advance and saved as a module so I can use it in any campaign. However, I've also used it on the fly. I just open my asset window with my card graphics and drag in whatever cards I need. It's not quite as smooth as having the whole thing set up in advance, but my players know we're not playing a video game and have always seemed appreciative of/patient when doing it on the fly. Last time I used this I had a general reading for the whole group set up and then some of my players asked for individual readings. The individual readings I had to do on the fly and they understood it might not be quite as fluid as the prepared. However, it worked out pretty well and I was able to set up each individual reading in about 30 seconds. Actually took me longer to fumble through what the cards meant than actually setting it up!

[Szabtom]

Thanks again, both.
I will try to take the best of worlds. :) I am going to place map segments as individual layers, and will plunk them down as the party travels. To the players, the blank gray canvas around the painted parts will just look like a "fog of war" that covers the unexplored areas.
Then I will add markers, again each on a separate layer, for special places of interest. These will also get a pin with a Story entry.
Per session, 6-7 items/layers will be added at most, each with just a small painted element, like a small spell effect marker.
So, I expect a single image in FG to be able to hold information for months of RL game time.

[JonStormbringer]

Thanks again, both.
I will try to take the best of worlds. :) I am going to place map segments as individual layers, and will plunk them down as the party travels. To the players, the blank gray canvas around the painted parts will just look like a "fog of war" that covers the unexplored areas.
Then I will add markers, again each on a separate layer, for special places of interest. These will also get a pin with a Story entry.
Per session, 6-7 items/layers will be added at most, each with just a small painted element, like a small spell effect marker.
So, I expect a single image in FG to be able to hold information for months of RL game time.

Sounds great! Glad we were able to help!

[JonStormbringer]

Just another option for you that may or may not work for you, would be to apply a global mask over your map and only reveal parts of the map as your group is moving. For instance:

Here's the world map for my campaign.

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Next, I zoom in a little and apply a mask. You will notice the image is much darker. It only appears that way to the DM/GM. To the player, it appears as a black square where they cannot see anything. See the red circles in the upper right to navigate their in your own FG.

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Now, I'm going to reveal a little bit of the map, as if the characters woke up on a beach without any idea of where they're at. They move north until they find a river and then follow the river to the west. To reveal the map, you left click and drag a box around the area you want to reveal. It will make a little bounded box and the selection will show up. Everything that's inside of the bounded box, is visible to the players. Everything outside, will appear black.

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You will be able to use this from session to session with FG keeping the mask information. It will store the mask information unless you make a change to the map and then overwrite the map image file. Once you do that, you loose your mask info. (Just something to be aware of)

Maybe this gives you another option?

[Szabtom]

Thanks, I considered this option, but the map will be hex based and I would have to draw the unmask areas free-hand style. It would be too inaccurate and prone to mistakes. I wish there was a grid-based masking and un-masking option!

[LordEntrails]

Thanks, I considered this option, but the map will be hex based and I would have to draw the unmask areas free-hand style. It would be too inaccurate and prone to mistakes. I wish there was a grid-based masking and un-masking option!
Another option, though I do not like it, is to is t place a hex shaped mask image over each hex and then change visibility on each one as you wish to reveal. A lot of work and probably prone to making errors, but maybe?

Might want to add something to the wish list. Though not too many folks uses hexes so it might not get much love :(