Best performance for players

[Caratacus]

I wish to ask all the experienced FGU GMs about improving the performance for my players.
Should I remove from the ongoing campaign files such as tokens, maps, stories, etc. once I've used them for an adventure, and they're unlikely to be needed again? Say move them to my own laptop storage?
Would doing so improve the players' download speeds? If not, is there any other streamlining I might do to help?
I'm asking as I find that after a few sessions, it seems the overall speed of uploads appears to be slower than during the first couple of sessions.
Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.


Thanks

[BronzeDodger]

General concepts I'll let those with more expertise cover: I ran one that was all homebrew. I kept one dev campaign for things like NPC names, world map, campaign notes (to pretty tiny) and then for a given chapter, would export each into it's own module (it was travel-based so I could be pretty confident they would not go backwards, so it was one-and-done for most chapters). So I'd load Chapter 1, play that (included all maps, images, story entries, etc.) and then when we finished that bit, just close the module and now all the image sharing and overhead disappears from the players' computers. As DM you can always reactivate the module if you need to dig up a detail - but in general it's gone once you're through a chapter.

Doing it this way kept it succinct for me (i.e. i only had current info to comb through, not all the chapters) and kept the overhead on the other computers minimized.

[LordEntrails]

Once something has been shared and downloaded, it should not need to be downloaded by the players again unless they have deleted their cache or are using a new/different computer.

That said, I use development campaigns for each section or chapter of my campaign and then export modules from those and open (and close) the needed modules. It helps keep shared images to a reasonable amount (which can easily become a performance issue).

That said, just try to practice good hygiene, remove what you no longer need. Note, I expect slow performance degradation over the life of a campaign just as you have more and more content, both specific to the campaign, but also to FGu in general (i.e. Adding new images, etc to assets).

If you have specific cases or situations where you see performance degradation, let us know and we can help figure out why.

[Caratacus]

OK, so in a nutshell, only keep active what you expect to use in each session, and remove anything obsolete.
I believe I understand the module concept, I just haven't used it yet in the way suggested.
We've had a couple issues lately of maps taking forever to download, or in one case, not downloading at all for my players. Looking at the maps themselves, they don't seem significantly different to others I've used
, and others loaded afterwards fine. I'd just like to keep it working at their end.

[Zarestia]

What's your upload speed and how many players do you have at your table?
How big (in MB) are the maps in question?
How big is your campaign folder?

You can share maps while no one is connected. The maps will then get downloaded when people connect the next time, this might eliminate some of your issues while gaming.

[LordEntrails]

Note that if you share maps before players are connected and do not want them to see the image, either add a global mask or enable LOS so that the map is concealed. Also you may wish to use the non-ID name and mark it unidentified.

[damned]

Also how big is the db.xml itself.
Its possible this has grown very large and is impacting performance.

[ColinBuckler]

Also how big is the db.xml itself.
Its possible this has grown very large and is impacting performance.

I tend to choose a convenient time to create a new campaign, export all the characters from the old campaign and import them in the new campaign.

Running weekly, I found approximately every 9 to 12 months is a good time frame for this.

In Waterdeep/Mad Mage I chose to do this as the party moved between level 3 and level 4 as the campaign has been running around 18 months and the db.xml was well clogged up. You can retain the old campaign for reference.

[SilentRuin]

Here are the number one lag busters IF you have decent network/machines for host and clients (all bets are off if you don't)...

1. LOS in Maps - this IS the number one lag generator. In order to reduce this you should check if the map has all the LOS layers active at once (or is one giant LOS layer) and break that map LOS into different areas that you can turn off when players are not near that area. This can be turned on and off in groups of LOS if you have enough individual layers so you always have the minimum active you need.

Well... crap. Really that's all I have to say on lag. This is the number 1 trouble maker.

[Shapeshifter1923]

Here are the number one lag busters IF you have decent network/machines for host and clients (all bets are off if you don't)...

1. LOS in Maps - this IS the number one lag generator. In order to reduce this you should check if the map has all the LOS layers active at once (or is one giant LOS layer) and break that map LOS into different areas that you can turn off when players are not near that area. This can be turned on and off in groups of LOS if you have enough individual layers so you always have the minimum active you need.

Well... crap. Really that's all I have to say on lag. This is the number 1 trouble maker.

I have to agree.... I ran a Call of Cthuhu encounter with 80+ cultists on the map (LOS, lighting, layers sFX). It was the circular columns' LOS that was slowing everything down to a crawl. Freehand-drawn irregular walls, circles, and ellipses are the worst culprits as they can have masses of points on the LOS, try to minimise these, and things will run smoother.

[JohnD]

Get everyone an 11th gen i9, 256 gb of ram and a couple 3060 GPUs or whatever is cutting edge. This will help I feel certain.

[stephan_]

Disabling lighting (though keeping LoS) made a considerable difference on some maps for me.

[EOTB]

Freehand-drawn irregular walls, circles, and ellipses are the worst culprits as they can have masses of points on the LOS, try to minimise these, and things will run smoother.

I haven't watched all of the Smiteworks LOS youtube tutorials, but it might be worth considering if older ones are giving out counter-productive advice. I'm thinking about this one specifically

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQnCo9Q8fjQ

Where during the course of drawing cave LOS it's talked about getting the LOS really precise with lots of data points. This was one of the first ones I'd watched, and so the current advice regarding minimizing points was a light bulb moment, as it was in my head to make the LOS precise with lots of points, like in the video.

IDK if perhaps culling tutorial videos as performance issues are identified is a good use of time or not, but if people aren't on discord or forums and following taking all of such advice to heart, it's natural they'll be stumped about why their games run slow (and blame the engine)

[SilentRuin]

I haven't watched all of the Smiteworks LOS youtube tutorials, but it might be worth considering if older ones are giving out counter-productive advice. I'm thinking about this one specifically

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQnCo9Q8fjQ

Where during the course of drawing cave LOS it's talked about getting the LOS really precise with lots of data points. This was one of the first ones I'd watched, and so the current advice regarding minimizing points was a light bulb moment, as it was in my head to make the LOS precise with lots of points, like in the video.

IDK if perhaps culling tutorial videos as performance issues are identified is a good use of time or not, but if people aren't on discord or forums and following taking all of such advice to heart, it's natural they'll be stumped about why their games run slow (and blame the engine)

In small low populated maps that is not a problem. But we are not talking about that in some of the ones mentioned earlier (huge and congested)

[Caratacus]

Wow,
Lot's of great answers. Thanks.
I think the LOS could be an issue, the idea of sending the maps when my players are offline, and removing obsolete stories, tokens, maps from the campaign is something i honestly haven't done. All useful feedback which I'm sure will improve our game. Thanks again,

Caratacus

[BushViper]

Disabling lighting (though keeping LoS) made a considerable difference on some maps for me.

It makes me furious to have to, but I've done the same thing. Otherwise my games are more chore than fun.

I've exhausted all the energy that I care to talking about the performance issues of FGU only to be met with excuses, 'hacks,' and workarounds.

The objective reality is that FGU shouldn't run like a 2003 Nokia phone when DMs and/or players implement the features that were the primary reason for the 'upgrade.' I certainly don't overload my client with thousands of LoS points, but yet the problems persist.

[Caratacus]

I pre-shared the map last night before my players got online, and that worked great. Unfortunately, as other problems with automation showed up (troubles with targeting and allied NPC automation) we decided to try rebooting everything, and from that point my players again had trouble with the map not completely loading (and no solution to the NPC problems either). I ran with no LOS or lighting, despite the encounter being in an underground cavern complete with many obstacles. Surely there is a solution, or the whole "upgrading" really appears to be "downgrading" play.

[damned]

I pre-shared the map last night before my players got online, and that worked great. Unfortunately, as other problems with automation showed up (troubles with targeting and allied NPC automation) we decided to try rebooting everything, and from that point my players again had trouble with the map not completely loading (and no solution to the NPC problems either). I ran with no LOS or lighting, despite the encounter being in an underground cavern complete with many obstacles. Surely there is a solution, or the whole "upgrading" really appears to be "downgrading" play.

Please upload your logs.

[Caratacus]

This should be them


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TiwETFMiHEY9ejWEyeCbxspl-ooRbMiw/view?usp=sharing

[Trenloe]

This should be them


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TiwETFMiHEY9ejWEyeCbxspl-ooRbMiw/view?usp=sharing
That's the campaign data, not the logs. Details on how to compile the logs is available here: https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/1242136781/How+to+Compile+Logs

[Caratacus]

Sorry,
This should be them.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MZoOOlLiols7K2xg7cyZ8_C_T7mBqCp5/view?usp=sharing

[Trenloe]

Sorry,
This should be them.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MZoOOlLiols7K2xg7cyZ8_C_T7mBqCp5/view?usp=sharing
The FG logs get overwritten each time FG is started (and only the previous session logs are kept - for a maximum of two sessions). It looks like you've opened FG at least twice since your last gaming session, and not even loaded up a campaign - so these logs don't give much information. Please load up your campaign that has the issue, try to recreate some of the problems you had, and then collect the logs.

[Caratacus]

OK, so here is a screen shot of a player's screen. I have opened both screens on my laptop, not remotely as were my players Tuesday night.
In this case for me today, the map seems to have come up complete, but still the NPCs is only partly effective. I cannot move the NPC, nor when I roll the dice as per dragging over the target, it rolls an attack roll but it is generic, not against the chosen target. You'll notice too that it shows the controlling PC in the ChatBox, not the NPC, as the die roller.
PC was Toron Keh
NPC attacking was Zot
NPC attacked was Branded Devil 12

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_5uch9n7rrfB9kAHRc4xKCLrdmgNOPEQ/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e3plvSU2Il4m_JDGh4KDES7_XsfRfWTR/view?usp=sharing

[Jiminimonka]

OK, so here is a screen shot of a player's screen. I have opened both screens on my laptop, not remotely as were my players Tuesday night.
In this case for me today, the map seems to have come up complete, but still the NPCs is only partly effective. I cannot move the NPC, nor when I roll the dice as per dragging over the target, it rolls an attack roll but it is generic, not against the chosen target. You'll notice too that it shows the controlling PC in the ChatBox, not the NPC, as the die roller.
PC was Toron Keh
NPC attacking was Zot
NPC attacked was Branded Devil 12

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_5uch9n7rrfB9kAHRc4xKCLrdmgNOPEQ/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e3plvSU2Il4m_JDGh4KDES7_XsfRfWTR/view?usp=sharing

I think you missed the screenshots ;)

[Caratacus]

Should be the second link

[Weissrolf]

Whenever I share an image with my players like creature handouts I immediately revoke the share after everyone had a good look. And once a map is not needed anymore I again revoke the share. This removed said images from my players computers so that their FGU client never has to deal with them again.

[Trenloe]

OK, so here is a screen shot of a player's screen. I have opened both screens on my laptop, not remotely as were my players Tuesday night.
In this case for me today, the map seems to have come up complete, but still the NPCs is only partly effective. I cannot move the NPC, nor when I roll the dice as per dragging over the target, it rolls an attack roll but it is generic, not against the chosen target. You'll notice too that it shows the controlling PC in the ChatBox, not the NPC, as the die roller.
PC was Toron Keh
NPC attacking was Zot
NPC attacked was Branded Devil 12

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_5uch9n7rrfB9kAHRc4xKCLrdmgNOPEQ/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e3plvSU2Il4m_JDGh4KDES7_XsfRfWTR/view?usp=sharing
I recommend you post in the Savage Worlds forum about this. I think this is based around how PCs use their allies for targeting attacks and damage. For example, if as the owning player I use the "Drag onto new target" button in the CT for the ally Zot (drag it to target Branded Devil 12) and then double-click for the attack roll it works fine. I'm not that familiar with the Savage Worlds ruleset, but I'm guessing that drag/drop for allies doesn't work - as that's more related to the owning PC; if you use the Combat Tracker targeting buttons it worked OK for me. As mentioned, maybe post in the Savage Worlds forums for more details on how to use PC allies.

[Caratacus]

Thank you Trenloe
for looking at it. I will consult with the other Savages.

[Caratacus]

Thank you. That sounds like a good idea, and I will try it out next go round.