Current state of automation for M&M ruleset (3e)

[Ryuson]

So, I'm re-starting my M&M campaign this year with a bunch of friends so I'm re-familiarizing myself with the ruleset. Played around with it last night.

Wanted to confirm a few things (and this is after some research/toying around):

Figured out (finally) Attacks, which helps with the Damage effect.

1. Afflictions are not coded, correct? I'm wondering if the Attack automation might be used as a partial work-around (since it interacts with Dodge or Parry, and damage resistance stats like Toughness). Any one have a good suggestion?

2. I believe Area of Effect (AOE) is not automated. Since a successful Dodge would half the Effect rank, I made 2 Attacks for a Burst power (one is just half) and would apply the right damage based on the target's Dodge save. Haven't tested so may not work (and yeah, it's clunky). Anyone have any work-arounds?

3. Are we able to add Conditions (aka Effects in 5e) like Stunned, etc.? At this point, I'm ok with simply a label - is that possible? I know in 5e you can make new Effects. But it would nice to automate this in M&M, if that is possible. Is it?

[hawkwind]

I have been looking at this at this ruleset the last few days, I'm no means an expert on M&M


1. Most afflictions can be added to players and npcs by dragging and preloaded effect on to the CT. You can also add them to your players powers attacks by adding an effect line in your power description51070

2. try targeting multiple targets , it should work

3. Yes they are all listed as preloaded effects

There seems to be some functionality to write your own effects, I tried ATK:+2 and that worked but i have not found any that work. The preloaded effects seem to work ( tested vulnerable and defenceless) so unless they are hard coded there must be some kind effects code that works.

[superteddy57]

51071

Left in the image shows the combat tracker and the NPC attack lines for that NPC. Creating attack lines is best to follow the many examples from the default NPCs in the module. In most cases it follows: Name +# [Close/Ranged] [Effect (Affliction/Burst Area)] (damage/crit range).

Middle shows the character sheet. Here things are not done through text, but through creating actions under the power and building them to perform the automation. Right clicking on the power gives you the add radial and here you can choose add action to give you the ability to build out the automation for the power. The wiki goes in a bit more depth of this (https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/996643090/Mutants+and+Masterminds+-+Character+Sheet). In any case you can build the attack roll and the damage or effect on the second line. This should cover the actions the character would need to roll with their powers.

Right shows the effects window that would list the conditions the system currently tracks. This is located in the top right corner where the combat tracker is located. The system handles these conditions currently. As for using the built in effect system on the combat tracker, they are very rudimentary and only left over from not full expansion of the system. This ruleset is quite old and didn't utilize all the cool new features we have access to today. The base effect coding that it uses is CONC, TCONC, COVER, SCOVER, AC, CMD, SAVE, ATK, DMG, IMMUNE, VULN, RESIST. I can't verify the validity of these effects as the code looks like it was never really fully realized and thus not complete. The original code was only updated to work with the latest version of CoreRPG so games could continue on FGU. So some may not work in the way MM3 would think of using it.

[hawkwind]

tried AC , didnt work

[superteddy57]

Yes, as I said it may pick it up and use it, but may not work with the ruleset itself. The character doesn't have an AC. It uses defenses as listed on the combat tab.The original code base looked like it copied most from the early implementation of the 3.5e ruleset. So some of it is left over from that. Some of them may not work but the ones that do, won't have the 5e intelligence to use it smartly in every case. The only thing verified to work is the conditions from the Effects window to ensure combat was more smooth.

[Ryuson]

Thanks @hawkwind and @superteddy57 with your explanations and suggestions. My game is next week so I’ll be testing them out this weekend.

[Ryuson]

I have been looking at this at this ruleset the last few days, I'm no means an expert on M&M


1. Most afflictions can be added to players and npcs by dragging and preloaded effect on to the CT. You can also add them to your players powers attacks by adding an effect line in your power description51070

2. try targeting multiple targets , it should work

3. Yes they are all listed as preloaded effects

There seems to be some functionality to write your own effects, I tried ATK:+2 and that worked but i have not found any that work. The preloaded effects seem to work ( tested vulnerable and defenceless) so unless they are hard coded there must be some kind effects code that works.So, I was playing around with FG M&M this evening.
1. For the "Stunned" effect, it's not automatically applied, is it? I mirrored your image, rolled attacks and Stunned wasn't applied - it was just a value in a field. Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something.

2. Yup, multiple targets worked. Thanks!

3. Thanks, yes. I noticed the Conditions under the Effects button. I tried Defenceless and it seemed to work (0 defenses). Vulnerable did not seem to work (1/2 defense). Now, I think you're supposed to make a Resistance Check at the end of your turn to get rid of a Condition (IIRC), but there is no automation for that, right?

As I'm playing around with the rule set, I'm pleased to see there is some important automation that will make it much easier than doing it live, like:
- determining levels of success or failures (great for afflictions)
- that applies to Damage too, so Bruises and Dazed and Staggered conditions are determined
- Bruises are applied to rolls automatically
- I like how you can "roll for damage" but really it prompts a Resistance Check of your target in this rule set. I much prefer this flow (roll to hit, roll for damage) than rolling back and forth.

More to come!

[hawkwind]

quite getting into M&M , i have been converting the Nether War modules for my own use, the character sheet doesn't always add the cost of powers properly and what i would give for Herolab import tool!

[superteddy57]

So, I was playing around with FG M&M this evening.
1. For the "Stunned" effect, it's not automatically applied, is it? I mirrored your image, rolled attacks and Stunned wasn't applied - it was just a value in a field. Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something.

2. Yup, multiple targets worked. Thanks!

3. Thanks, yes. I noticed the Conditions under the Effects button. I tried Defenceless and it seemed to work (0 defenses). Vulnerable did not seem to work (1/2 defense). Now, I think you're supposed to make a Resistance Check at the end of your turn to get rid of a Condition (IIRC), but there is no automation for that, right?

As I'm playing around with the rule set, I'm pleased to see there is some important automation that will make it much easier than doing it live, like:
- determining levels of success or failures (great for afflictions)
- that applies to Damage too, so Bruises and Dazed and Staggered conditions are determined
- Bruises are applied to rolls automatically
- I like how you can "roll for damage" but really it prompts a Resistance Check of your target in this rule set. I much prefer this flow (roll to hit, roll for damage) than rolling back and forth.

More to come!

1) Dazed is the only condition that applies automatically
3) I tested on attacks and it does half the defense value of the target. On Damage if it's targeting Toughness it shouldn't half the toughness defense as it's not an active defense. So I'll need to know how it is failing on your end and the combat conditions


quite getting into M&M , i have been converting the Nether War modules for my own use, the character sheet doesn't always add the cost of powers properly and what i would give for Herolab import tool!

I will need to know what is not calculating correctly.

Please report any bugs you see in the bug report thread to help keep things together and not lost in a separate threads. Things can get lost very easily in the forums.

[Ryuson]

So, played last weekend and the game went well. The rule set (old as it appears to be) was serviceable. The Attack Action, though simple, was flexible enough to address our gaming needs, though more functionality (like 5e) would always be welcome. In fact, the session convinced a long-time M&M player (unlike me) to learn more about FG to start running his own games.

A few comments below. To put them in context, realize I'm relatively new to M&M (just started playing it last year) and so is most of group (that one player being an exception). So I wanted things really easy - and automated. I also just started using Unity (having started with 5e on Classic). Anyway:

1) I found a kludgy way to deal with Area attacks. The rules require a dodge check (if the target is in the AOE). If the save succeeds, the damage effect is halved. Full if the save fails. So, my automation consisted of three lines. The player just had to double click the Dodge save then choose the right outcome (full or half effect). It would be easy enough to just have one line and have the player enter in a mod to halve the effect, but I wanted to make things easy.
51281

2) That is an example of a Area Burst Affliction. I found the Attack Action to be helpful for Afflictions but having some additional functionality would be nice. Like automatically assigning the correct effect based on the degree of success (I can dream, can't I?). At minimum, I like to list the set of conditions in a conspicuous place; adding it to the name of the attack was kludgy so I'll probably change it.

A nice, long text field like you find here (in the more detailed power description) added between the name of the power and the Attack Action would be very helpful.
51282

Folks who use Hero Labs (and most serious M&M players I know do) will recognize that entry was almost taken verbatim from it. I added it to the detailed power description for reference, including the cost, which I still don't trust the ruleset to calculate correctly.

Thanks again for the replies!

[hawkwind]

SuperTeddy
I'm a bit ill with Covid at the moment but i will dig out an example and xml file for you

[superteddy57]

So, played last weekend and the game went well. The rule set (old as it appears to be) was serviceable. The Attack Action, though simple, was flexible enough to address our gaming needs, though more functionality (like 5e) would always be welcome. In fact, the session convinced a long-time M&M player (unlike me) to learn more about FG to start running his own games.

A few comments below. To put them in context, realize I'm relatively new to M&M (just started playing it last year) and so is most of group (that one player being an exception). So I wanted things really easy - and automated. I also just started using Unity (having started with 5e on Classic). Anyway:

1) I found a kludgy way to deal with Area attacks. The rules require a dodge check (if the target is in the AOE). If the save succeeds, the damage effect is halved. Full if the save fails. So, my automation consisted of three lines. The player just had to double click the Dodge save then choose the right outcome (full or half effect). It would be easy enough to just have one line and have the player enter in a mod to halve the effect, but I wanted to make things easy.
51281

2) That is an example of a Area Burst Affliction. I found the Attack Action to be helpful for Afflictions but having some additional functionality would be nice. Like automatically assigning the correct effect based on the degree of success (I can dream, can't I?). At minimum, I like to list the set of conditions in a conspicuous place; adding it to the name of the attack was kludgy so I'll probably change it.

A nice, long text field like you find here (in the more detailed power description) added between the name of the power and the Attack Action would be very helpful.
51282

Folks who use Hero Labs (and most serious M&M players I know do) will recognize that entry was almost taken verbatim from it. I added it to the detailed power description for reference, including the cost, which I still don't trust the ruleset to calculate correctly.

Thanks again for the replies!

The ruleset is currently under maintenance mode as there is no dedicated developer for the system. This means that I am here to help assist in repairing bugs that are reported. There aren't any current plans on expanding it from it's current state. My time currently is split among other systems as well and are under the same mode. These would include Starfinder, Basic Roleplaying, Vampire the Masquerade 5e, this system, and WOIN. That does not mean these rulesets are dead or not being monitored, just expanding the current state of the code to add more features is just not on the table at this time.

Those are excellent ideas and certainly something I'm adding to my notes for the system. When and if I get a chance to expand the code, these will be considered.

[Ryuson]

Those are excellent ideas and certainly something I'm adding to my notes for the system. When and if I get a chance to expand the code, these will be considered.
Understood and no worries. The ruleset works well enough for my game and I much prefer running M&M on FG than live (I'm seriously considering running it hybrid once F2F games become more feasible).

Anyway, one other thing I figured out: using the Attack Action for healing, since you can set the attack roll against Base.

51322


P.S. Hope others using M&M find this thread helpful. Welcome any tips and tricks anyone has learned using FG for M&M!

[DeviousHeart]

Can we help fund a Patreon or something or send you money to work on expansions for us? :)

[superteddy57]

I'm an employee of SmiteWorks, no need for compensation as they do that. My project list can get a bit high as I have to watch over quite a few systems. So takes me some time to make my rounds. Anyone can help create modules by creating the various books into FG modules. If you want more information on how that works and other benefits, you can reach out to this email: [email protected]

[Moon Wizard]

The Mutants and Masterminds ruleset/system is currently in maintenance mode; as the original developer who built the ruleset and initial modules is no longer working on the product. When DLC developed by developers outside of SmiteWorks is no longer supported by the original developer, we move it into "maintenance" mode. In that state, we primarily look at fixing outstanding bugs with existing functionality, or making sure that any changes to the underlying core ruleset layers and themes are supported as we adjust the core capabilities.

Regards,
JPG

[DeviousHeart]

Out of curiosity, what would it take for it to come out of maintenance mode and into a mode that newer functionality could be implemented?

[Moon Wizard]

We would need an external ruleset developer who was willing to take over maintenance and develop new features for the ruleset; just like it was originally developed.

Regards,
JPG

[DeviousHeart]

And, unless M&M gets a lot more popular or one of us learns the necessary skill set and wants to volunteer our time for it, that is the way it will remain, correct?

What is the programming language used to code Fantasy Grounds?

Are there any online resources for how to code for Fantasy Grounds?

Thank you in advance for all your efforts and information. I am trying to learn about the problem and see if I can solve it. :)

[damned]

And, unless M&M gets a lot more popular or one of us learns the necessary skill set and wants to volunteer our time for it, that is the way it will remain, correct?

What is the programming language used to code Fantasy Grounds?

Are there any online resources for how to code for Fantasy Grounds?

Thank you in advance for all your efforts and information. I am trying to learn about the problem and see if I can solve it. :)

It is written in XML (layout) and Lua (functionality).
You can access the code in the ruleset using the following:

1. Install 7zip (not essential but 7zip will allow you to open PAK files without renaming them)
2. Locate the ruleset .PAK file
3. Right click it and extract

This will let you view the current source code.
Taking over a ruleset would require some effort and time.
It will primarily be a labor of love - there will be some revenue from it but not enough to justify the time vs reward.
You would only do it out of passion!
This is not meant to discourage you - only to provide some more understanding.
I have about 15 rulesets out there so I have a fair idea of the work involved :bandit:

[DeviousHeart]

Many Thanks damned, Moon Wizard, and ESPECIALLY superteddy57! I appreciate you guys! :)