skill rank question

[Immelmann]

new to ruleset. got a grasp of basic concepts. question though about skill ranks

so i have a new character with the "good tendons" special ability. he was a logger and has climbed LOTS of trees, even jumped from tree to tree, much like a (cough) monkey.

so my 1st thought is, give this guy some ranks in the climb skill. here is my issue. like with the languages (1 - 10) 1 is you can say a few words, 10 is you speak with philosophers. how do i do this for climb? i would guess a rank of 1 means you can climb a ladder with no penalties. what rank lets you climb trees with no penalty? i know the ranks for skills go beyond 10, like Sd is 19.

perhaps it goes like this? otto and his friend want to climb a tree. i guess as GM i must assign a difficulty? ok. hard. so otto with rank 4 would roll and get no penalty from the hard, because of his rank 4, the other person would get a -20 to the roll. but is hard, what you would call, climbing a tree? since absurd would be climbing a castle wall? this is where i get confused.

[Sulimo]

The Skills in RMC use a progression for each rank purchased.

Ranks 1-10 are worth 5 points each, Ranks 11-20 are worth 2 points each, then ranks 21-30 are worth 1 point each. This simulates what would happen in the real world, at first you get better quickly, but after a while it takes a lot more effort to advance a particular skill. If a character has zero ranks in a skill it is a -25 for anything involving that skill.

Most characters don't get beyond 30 ranks, but there are ways to continue the progression if needed.

Once you have the total number of ranks (if you put that into the character sheet for the skill in question) it will automatically calculate the Rank Bonus (Rk Bn on the sheet).

So for instance; a fighter has a cost of 3/7 for Climbing. That means the fighter can purchase up to two ranks in climbing per level, with the first rank costing 3 points and the second costing 7 (total of 10 points could be spent per level).

Here the fighter I have has 5 Ranks in Climb which gives a Rank Bonus of 25, plus a stat bonus of 5 (automatic from the Agility stat bonus), and a 3 for level bonus (1 per level at level 3), for a total of 33 (that 33 will be added to any D100 roll for the climbing skill).

https://i.imgur.com/sEqvapg.png

From there, the player would select the difficulty of the maneuver (GM should supply this), then roll their climb skill, and if they use the shadow dice on the skill itself (double click the shadow dice, or grab them and drop them in the chat window), it will add their bonus (which includes the trained ranks, Stat bonus, and any other bonuses you might want to add like Level bonus, etc.).

So, I selected Very Hard and rolled (got a decent roll, open-ended on the high side for the first one, then it added the Skill Bonus of 33 for a total of 228):

https://i.imgur.com/SMAaFQf.png

You can see the Very Hard difficulty in the chat output.

On the GM screen, it will automatically open the Table resolver:

https://i.imgur.com/34v0Cvv.png

The GM can now click on the resolve button to resolve the roll (the GM can also right-click and choose Resolve from the right-click menu).

It has selected the correct column (Very Hard), and automatically highlighted the correct result.

https://i.imgur.com/AEv4K2t.png

The text from the result can be dragged to the chat window and it will post for all to see.

https://i.imgur.com/rV0KELR.png

For results that are just numbers, that is the percentage of completion that the player was able to complete (out of 100%).


Hope this helps.

[alloowishus]

new to ruleset. got a grasp of basic concepts. question though about skill ranks

so i have a new character with the "good tendons" special ability. he was a logger and has climbed LOTS of trees, even jumped from tree to tree, much like a (cough) monkey.

so my 1st thought is, give this guy some ranks in the climb skill. here is my issue. like with the languages (1 - 10) 1 is you can say a few words, 10 is you speak with philosophers. how do i do this for climb? i would guess a rank of 1 means you can climb a ladder with no penalties. what rank lets you climb trees with no penalty? i know the ranks for skills go beyond 10, like Sd is 19.

perhaps it goes like this? otto and his friend want to climb a tree. i guess as GM i must assign a difficulty? ok. hard. so otto with rank 4 would roll and get no penalty from the hard, because of his rank 4, the other person would get a -20 to the roll. but is hard, what you would call, climbing a tree? since absurd would be climbing a castle wall? this is where i get confused.

Generally special ability bonuses should go under the "Spec" column of a skill, it does reflect how many ranks they have developed, it just gives them extra bonuses because of some physical superiority (like good tendons).

[Immelmann]

ok. thanx. another question on skills.

so i developed a character. take the guy from above. created a special skill called "tree hopping" assigned some ranks to that and other skills picked up as an adolescence. then i go and spend the skill points i have from my stats. it was like 35? for primary and secondary total. so i use the points and apply.

so to now bring the character to 1st level, i do a stat gain roll. seems like you get only 1 or 2 skill points, according to your primary stats. seems like there is not much you can do with only 1 or 2. yet in a video, i see a character add 20 points to learn a new spell list? and that is in addition to gaining other skills.

where are they getting all those points?

and while i am at it, when you determine hit points, for a common man i roll a d8 for each rank in BD to get my starting HPs. when i gain level 2, do i only roll a d8 and add that to my HPs? or do i roll a number of d8s equal to my current BD?

[alloowishus]

ok. thanx. another question on skills.

so i developed a character. take the guy from above. created a special skill called "tree hopping" assigned some ranks to that and other skills picked up as an adolescence. then i go and spend the skill points i have from my stats. it was like 35? for primary and secondary total. so i use the points and apply.

so to now bring the character to 1st level, i do a stat gain roll. seems like you get only 1 or 2 skill points, according to your primary stats. seems like there is not much you can do with only 1 or 2. yet in a video, i see a character add 20 points to learn a new spell list? and that is in addition to gaining other skills.

where are they getting all those points?

and while i am at it, when you determine hit points, for a common man i roll a d8 for each rank in BD to get my starting HPs. when i gain level 2, do i only roll a d8 and add that to my HPs? or do i roll a number of d8s equal to my current BD?



Any cost with a star (for example 1/*) means you can develop as many ranks as you want based on your DPs based on the first number. So for example spell development at 1/* you can spend 20 DPs which gives you 20 ranks and a 100% chance to learn the spell list.

For BD, you get one role per rank developed.

[Sulimo]

ok. thanx. another question on skills.

so i developed a character. take the guy from above. created a special skill called "tree hopping" assigned some ranks to that and other skills picked up as an adolescence. then i go and spend the skill points i have from my stats. it was like 35? for primary and secondary total. so i use the points and apply.

so to now bring the character to 1st level, i do a stat gain roll. seems like you get only 1 or 2 skill points, according to your primary stats. seems like there is not much you can do with only 1 or 2. yet in a video, i see a character add 20 points to learn a new spell list? and that is in addition to gaining other skills.

where are they getting all those points?

and while i am at it, when you determine hit points, for a common man i roll a d8 for each rank in BD to get my starting HPs. when i gain level 2, do i only roll a d8 and add that to my HPs? or do i roll a number of d8s equal to my current BD?

When you Add New Ranks, it does not clear the New column automatically. Click to Clear New Ranks to clear the those out (unless you want to develop the exact same skills the next level), this will give you all of you DPs for that level (including any gained by Stat Gain).

Here is a pic:
https://i.imgur.com/S9jDJXj.png




For the most part with Body Development, you put your Rolls into the Rk Bn Column. When you add a Rank to BD, Roll again, and add that to the current Rk Bn Column. So if you have 15 in the Rk Bn Column, and you roll a 6, adjust it to 21. The rest of the Hit points should adjust automatically. It won't necessarily be 1-1 on the BD to HP, because of the way the formula works.

Just in case you are curious, HP is derived using the following method:

Start with Con Stat/10 as your Base Hits (round up).

Every time you increase Body Dev, roll for each rank and add that to the Base Hits.

From there, the following formula is used:

Total Hits (HP) = Base Hits + (Base Hits X (Con Bonus (not the stat)/100)) Round Down.

FG Does this calculation for you, so you only need to add your Rolls to the Rk Bn column.

Let us know if you have further questions.

[Immelmann]

ok.

so when a common man gains a level, they get to roll a d8 and add that to the current Rk Bn value, and that will in turn adjust the HP on the main tab of the character sheet?

again on skills. so my guy gains level 2. rolls a stat gain. get maybe 2 -4 points to spend on skills. i have read that these points can not be saved. must be used or you lose them. 2 - 4 is barely enough to raise one skill one level. is that how it is suppose to be? suppose my guy uses his weapon a lot. kills many creatures. but gets like 2 points to spend on skills. really not enough to reflect the fact, he really used that sword a lot!! he should get an extra level. i suppose as GM i can just say hey! here is a bonus, but that seems to easy.

[Sulimo]

ok.

so when a common man gains a level, they get to roll a d8 and add that to the current Rk Bn value, and that will in turn adjust the HP on the main tab of the character sheet?

That is correct, if they only bought one Rank, if they are a Profession that allows for more than one Rank per level, they might be able to roll 2d8 and add that to the Rk Bn value. Either way, it will update the HP on the main tab of the character sheet.



again on skills. so my guy gains level 2. rolls a stat gain. get maybe 2 -4 points to spend on skills. i have read that these points can not be saved. must be used or you lose them. 2 - 4 is barely enough to raise one skill one level. is that how it is suppose to be? suppose my guy uses his weapon a lot. kills many creatures. but gets like 2 points to spend on skills. really not enough to reflect the fact, he really used that sword a lot!! he should get an extra level. i suppose as GM i can just say hey! here is a bonus, but that seems to easy.

You have it correct in the first part of your question. Development Points are use it or lose it. If they are not used when they are granted at level up, they are lost.

A couple of things players can do:

1. Obtain a new skill, there are plenty of skills that require 2 or so points (at least for the first rank). There are also lots of Secondary Skills (see #3).
2. If the character has more than one rank in a particular skill for that level (anything with something like 2/7, or 3/7, etc.) they could go down to just one rank instead of two and put the left over DPs into another skill that might allow them to use their DPs more efficiently.
3. Primary Skill DPs can be transferred 1-1 to Secondary Skills, so they could obtain a new secondary skill or enhance one they already have. NOTE: Secondary Skill DPs cannot be transferred to Primary, it's one way only.

It's all about finding the most efficient way to spend the DPs each level.

[Immelmann]

ok, my question is still not getting answered.

character is being created. i assign, as GM, adolescent skills. take my guy from above. he was a lumberer. chopped down trees a lot. so as GM, i give him 1 rank in BD. plus i give him some other skills. like climb rank 2. made up a skill, tree hopping 2.

now stats are rolled, and the 1st 6 stats are what generates your skill points. say...35. at this point, a spell caster can use 20pts and basically learn a spell list. my fighter put pts in BD, weapons, armor, to name a few. all my skill points are spent, i am still level 0.

now i advance the character to level 1. roll stat gain. multiple rolls have shown me that the avg. skill point gain is like 2 - 4 pts. how on earth is a spell caster to gain another spell list? 4pt seems like a very small chance. lets say my fighter put 3 more ranks in BD. i now have 4. BD is a 1/3 for me. so every level i want is going to cost me 3 skill points. what if i never gain that many during a level increase? i will have a level 10 fighter with 17 hit points because some one above said i get to roll more hit points only if i increase BD. i thought every level gain, i got to roll a d8 for my common man, for every level of BD so every time my fighter gains a level, unless the rank goes up, i get a 4d8 each level increase, yes?

so i guess my question is, are the number of skill points earned each level really that low?

[Sulimo]

ok, my question is still not getting answered.

character is being created. i assign, as GM, adolescent skills. take my guy from above. he was a lumberer. chopped down trees a lot. so as GM, i give him 1 rank in BD. plus i give him some other skills. like climb rank 2. made up a skill, tree hopping 2.

now stats are rolled, and the 1st 6 stats are what generates your skill points. say...35. at this point, a spell caster can use 20pts and basically learn a spell list. my fighter put pts in BD, weapons, armor, to name a few. all my skill points are spent, i am still level 0.

now i advance the character to level 1. roll stat gain. multiple rolls have shown me that the avg. skill point gain is like 2 - 4 pts. how on earth is a spell caster to gain another spell list? 4pt seems like a very small chance. lets say my fighter put 3 more ranks in BD. i now have 4. BD is a 1/3 for me. so every level i want is going to cost me 3 skill points. what if i never gain that many during a level increase? i will have a level 10 fighter with 17 hit points because some one above said i get to roll more hit points only if i increase BD. i thought every level gain, i got to roll a d8 for my common man, for every level of BD so every time my fighter gains a level, unless the rank goes up, i get a 4d8 each level increase, yes?

so i guess my question is, are the number of skill points earned each level really that low?

No. Each level you get your full DP, not just those gained via Stat Gain.

Depending on the Character stats, it will be around 30-40 DPs per level.

So to simplify things a bit, I have created a fighter. I'll cover your question about spell users in a different post.

All stats are Potential of 100 with a Temp of 80, actual rolls will create a different mix, but I wanted to have something simple to start from.

Note that the first 5 Stats determine how many Development Points the character will have per level. For this fighter he will have 35 DPs to start with.

https://i.imgur.com/JkTrGbw.png

Next would usually be background options, but it's not necessary for this discussion, so, next is to do Adolescent skills.

For Adolescent skills, it's basically just treated as a level, so this fighter has 35 Primary DPs and 8 Secondary DPs.

https://i.imgur.com/DaJYW7X.png

To simplify, add all Primary and All Secondary skills via the buttons.

https://i.imgur.com/908P1uR.png

Now I need to spend the 35 points for Primary and 8 for Secondary.

Here I have spend all of the points (remaining Zero). You can also see the DPs spent in the far right column.

https://i.imgur.com/86YTppj.png

I would click the Add new Ranks button (it will show in chat).

https://i.imgur.com/RatOMz5.png

Now I click Clear New Ranks to clear out that column for the next level (you can see it now shows the full 35+8 DPs available again).

https://i.imgur.com/AWv7wFR.png


Now the character is Level 0.

The Stat Gain Rolls are rolled, and I click Apply to apply the rolls (one stat went down, so that will rake away some of the DPs, others went up, so those will add to the DP total).

https://i.imgur.com/xmGymdv.png
https://i.imgur.com/0UAlI8x.png

Now, if I look at Skill Development again, it will show the new total of 40 DPs for Primary, and 10 for Secondary, for a total of 50 Development Points.

https://i.imgur.com/bHhfwZJ.png

Then I do the same process as above for the Adolescent, except I am going from level 0 to level 1, this time spending a bit more points than the last time (50 total instead of 43).

https://i.imgur.com/FSYutX3.png

I would click on Add new Ranks, and that would add all of those new ranks.

I also click Remove Untrained Primary and Secondary skills to clean up the list to only those skills I have trained.

https://i.imgur.com/NjA3gCJ.png

Then I would click Clear New Ranks to get ready for the next level.

https://i.imgur.com/mmfGR78.png

Now I could update the character sheet to Level 1.

I have not rolled Body Dev yet, but that is pretty straight forward. I have 4 total ranks in Body Dev (2 from Adolescence and 2 from Level 0 to Level 1). I rolled a total of 21.

https://i.imgur.com/oMKLueF.png

I use the RM2 option for Level Bonuses. Here is the table that shows those:

https://i.imgur.com/7Rfn7HL.png

Outdoor Skills are somewhat subjective and GMs ultimate prerogative.

https://i.imgur.com/rDbLwc2.png

HP on the main page (calculated automatically, in this case it is the same as the Body Dev total).

https://i.imgur.com/UTa63AZ.png


The next level would be the same process, do the Stat Gain first, then develop the skills.

[Dakadin]

No, you get the full development points for adolescence skills and again for going to level 1. You don't just get the difference from the stat gains. So in your example, they would get to spend 35 DPs each time.

Haha! Sulimo was faster and more detailed than I was.

[Sulimo]

how on earth is a spell caster to gain another spell list? 4pt seems like a very small chance. ?


Each rank a Spell user assigns to the Spells Skill (which is how they learn Spell Lists), is a 5% chance to learn that list.

I'll just pick a Magician. For a Magician the Spells cost is 1/*, this means each Rank costs 1 DP, and I can spend as many as I want each level. Since each Rank is 5%, you would never want to purchase more than 20 Ranks per level to learn a list (20*5 = 100% chance).

You'll need to manually assign the Stat to the Spells Skill. Since each Realm uses a different stat, it needs to be added manually to the Skill.

In the case of a Mage, it's Empathy (Em), you can see the +10 from the stat on the Skills Tab once I changed that in the Skill.

https://i.imgur.com/Lg2xHWu.png

Lets say I purchase 6 Ranks to learn Fire Law.

That would cost me 6 DPs out of whatever my total was.

If I then go to the Spells Tab and add the Mage Base Lists, Fire Law is there, I would just need to put in the Chance, which is 30% because I purchased 6 Ranks in that Spell List (6*5).

https://i.imgur.com/68lK0u1.png

From there, if I double-click the Shadow Dice (or drag them to the chat and throw them), it will automatically calculate the total (adding my 30 for Skill Ranks, and 10 for the Empathy bonus). It will show SUCCESS or FAILURE.

In this case I succeeded. The total (Skill Ranks + Realm Stat Bonus + Roll) needs to be greater than 100 for a success.

https://i.imgur.com/RmIL1zH.png

Because of the way Spells work, this success means I now know the Fire Law list to Level 10 now, so I put 10 in the Level Field. NOTE: A spell user can only typically cast spells up to their own level.

I also clear out the chance field, as I now have the Spell List learned. If I want to learn Spells from Level 11-20, I need to start the process over. On my next Level up I could spend more points in Spells and each new Rank would give me that 5% to learn a new list, or extend a list I already know.

https://i.imgur.com/Sne2SEo.png

Spell users can only develop and attempt to learn a single spell list per level.

If I had failed, on my next level I could purchase some more Ranks to learn Fire Law, and any additional Ranks would add 5% to the already existing 30%, and I could keep doing that until I learned the list.

[Sulimo]

No, you get the full development points for adolescence skills and again for going to level 1. You don't just get the difference from the stat gains. So in your example, they would get to spend 35 DPs each time.

Haha! Sulimo was faster and more detailed than I was.

Bah: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dakadin again.

[Dakadin]

Haha! I got the same message when I tried to give reputation to you Sulimo!

[Immelmann]

so my whole deal was, where are all the DPs come from. i knew we get a few from stat gain, but i keep asking, how are people advancing levels when you are only getting 1 - 4 DPs per level increase. when a character gains level one, you spend your DPs (say 35) on your skills. the rules say, you LOSE ALL DPs after advancing a level. then when lvl 2 happens, you roll the stat gain, and get 1 - 4 DPs to spend on skills. how where you people getting MASSIVE skill gains on 1 - 4 DP?????? that was the question.

FINALLY, some one on discord properly explained the answer........your ORIGINAL DPs CARRY OVER TO THE NEXT LEVEL!!!

::angry look::

[Sulimo]

so my whole deal was, where are all the DPs come from. i knew we get a few from stat gain, but i keep asking, how are people advancing levels when you are only getting 1 - 4 DPs per level increase. when a character gains level one, you spend your DPs (say 35) on your skills. the rules say, you LOSE ALL DPs after advancing a level. then when lvl 2 happens, you roll the stat gain, and get 1 - 4 DPs to spend on skills. how where you people getting MASSIVE skill gains on 1 - 4 DP?????? that was the question.

You get all your DPs each level as I already explained back in this post (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?71969-skill-rank-question&p=634413&viewfull=1#post634413).



FINALLY, some one on discord properly explained the answer........your ORIGINAL DPs CARRY OVER TO THE NEXT LEVEL!!!

::angry look::

Whoever said this is incorrect DPs do not carry over from one level to another. You get DPs each level based on your stats, if you do not use them, you lose them. The next level you get more DPs based on your stat, and they must be used at that time, any left over DPs DO NOT CARRY OVER.

[Immelmann]

[QUOTE=Sulimo;635040]You get all your DPs each level as I already explained back in this post (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?71969-skill-rank-question&p=634413&viewfull=1#post634413).

with my dyslexia, your long posts are nearly impossible for me. i do not like having to reread all that just to make sure i have comprehended every thing. literally, some times it is like reading hebrew.

dakadin knows this. notice his short, concise answers? lol

[Dakadin]

Sulimo actually did a much better job of explaining it than I did and even got it posted faster than me with pictures. There is no way for him to know if you have dyslexia so he was just trying to make sure he covered all the steps to avoid confusion.

[Immelmann]

Sulimo actually did a much better job of explaining it than I did and even got it posted faster than me with pictures. There is no way for him to know if you have dyslexia so he was just trying to make sure he covered all the steps to avoid confusion.

every thing you said, i already knew. so i am curious....who you talking to? i hope not me, as you make me look stupid.

[Trenloe]

every thing you said, i already knew. so i am curious....who you talking to? i hope not me, as you make me look stupid.
I'm a moderator on these forums.

Sulimo had gone above and beyond in their posts to provide detailed feedback to you. The Rolemaster RPG rules contain a lot of text so, without knowing you have reading issues, it's reasonable to expect a post like Sulimo's will be helpful.

Sometimes the written word can be taken in the wrong way - I'm 100% confident Dakadin was not trying to make you look stupid.

Everyone who's responded to you in this thread are community members who are spending their free time just trying to help you. Please keep this in mind when interacting on these forums. Thanks.

[Dakadin]

I wasn't trying to make anyone look stupid and I apologize if that is the way it came across. That was never my intent.

[QuirkyBirky]

every thing you said, i already knew. so i am curious....who you talking to? i hope not me, as you make me look stupid.

I have read, and re-read Dakadin's reply and I really can't see where you've got that inference from. There is nothing contentious in that post.

I can only assume it's the reference to pictures, which is simply Dakadin praising Sulimo's quick and detailed response (so much so that they've even found time to illustrate their reply).

Dakadin and Sulimo (and others) have done their best to answer every question that you have asked (as they do with every other question posted on this part of the FG forum), and I have always found them (and the rest of the posters on here) to be incredibly helpful - and certainly never condescending.

[Rainbird]

I have read, and re-read Dakadin's reply and I really can't see where you've got that inference from. There is nothing contentious in that post.

I can only assume it's the reference to pictures, which is simply Dakadin praising Sulimo's quick and detailed response (so much so that they've even found time to illustrate their reply).

Dakadin and Sulimo (and others) have done their best to answer every question that you have asked (as they do with every other question posted on this part of the FG forum), and I have always found them (and the rest of the posters on here) to be incredibly helpful - and certainly never condescending.

I second that. Many thanks from me for their time and effort. I have found the guys on the RMC pages to be very helpful and never condescending.