The time of "What were they thinking?" is upon us!

[SilentRuin]

I marvel at how after every major update, having been available usually for more than a month in TEST for anyone to check out, or available in descriptions and arguments over the upcoming changes in the forums as they change and get tweaked - that as soon as the changes go LIVE... a flurry of posts decrying the changes appear as if they are a total surprise and "WTF".

I get it. To busy or lazy to be bothered with tracking new changes or trying them out. No crime in that. But what I marvel at is how a lot of these complaints seem to be of the "What were they thinking?" type of complaints.

IMHO - they were thinking those who cared tried it out and commented when the chance to do so was given.

Johnny come lately types - can complain and be horrified by the changes all they want. And if they actually find bugs? They are productive complaints!

But really - all this faux shock and horror at the changes and how could they possibly do them?

You had your chance to comment before it went LIVE. For whatever reason, you chose not to. Now this does not mean you don't have the right to comment - it just means you should probably not be couching your complaints with some kind of wording that implies you had no idea these were coming.

Because not knowing that? Or taking the time to check them out?

That's on you.

Just felt I should vent a bit about flurry of complaints coming out of the woodwork right now. I mean they got to vent about the changes - seems only fair ;)

[Zacchaeus]

Not sure this is helpful.

Many people don't browse the forums either at all or very rarely and this is the only medium that's used to announce things like beta versions of the software and only in the Laboratory which is a little visited area of the forums in the first place. There will always be complaints when changes occur either because people don't like change in general or because they don't like the specific thing that's changed. It's the nature of the beast. Not everyone can be happy all of the time, and if you don't know that the change is coming it can be a surprise to many users. We can also look at this positively; one or two complaint posts from a handful of people mean, to me at least, that the vast majority of people like the changes. So there's that.

[LordEntrails]

I suspect 90% of FG users never visit the forums. And maybe just as many never regularly visit the Discord servers etc. I wonder how many even read the Newletters?

It's to be expected. People complain that change doesn't happen quick enough. Other people complain when things change. Can't win. Nature of the business. And all that.

[Kelrugem]

I also do not completely understand this thread. As others said, many if not most people are not on the forums or discord and are only aware of a patch once it happened. And even if they knew about the incoming patch, it is completely okay (and even preferred) to voice if one does not like something :)

Moreover, I do not really see any serious complaints anywhere right now; except some errors related to SWD if I recall correctly, which surely will be fixed. (EDIT: okay, found a thread, but still okay if people voice that they do not like something; depending on the post, the tone could be a bit nicer, but overall it is okay to voice if one prefers something different)

[SilentRuin]

Venting at the venters - take it or leave it. Though I do understand the viewpoint that only venting about app and not those doing the venting is the only legitimate course of action. Open discourse is not really something that is allowed when dealing with an app. So I see the point only discussions directly tied to the app - not opinions about those complaining - is legit to post.

Consider me chastened. Though to be honest, not sorry I vented ;)

[Valyar]

The last resort here is to have "news" section in the launcher where such things will be posted for those that don't use discord/email/forums. :)

I like the new sidebar.

[SilentRuin]

The last resort here is to have "news" section in the launcher where such things will be posted for those that don't use discord/email/forums. :)

I like the new sidebar.

Now there is a productive and worthwhile idea. A consequence of threads that are not really legit at times during the free discussion of all things that can sometimes occur ;)

[Kelrugem]

I think I have once put an item on the wishlist about a pop-up window declaring new updates and features (like it happens when networking updates happen). But I am too lazy to find that wishlist item right now :D

[SilentRuin]

I think I have once put an item on the wishlist about a pop-up window declaring new updates and features (like it happens when networking updates happen). But I am too lazy to find that wishlist item right now :D

The wishlist... 50341

[*Neuro*]

Yesterday I had an AL scheduled D&D game, and I did what I shouldn't have done, I UPDATED before the game.

Constant issues during game of errors due to the extensions/mods, annoying for players and for me.

I don't care about the side bar, I can find things anyway, even if now I think is counter intuitive, but I will get used to this new UI.

However these issues affected my session, it was still playable but I am wondering if having many "add ons" loaded is just a pain in the a** and I should revert to VANILLA FGU, so at least update will just break fewer things.

Now my next game to be GMed is on 29th December, I hope by then fixes will be issued by Smiteworks and also I need to check on DMSGUILD all the new fixes for the files (extensions and mods).

I really wish not having to do this anymore, is time consuming.

For what, to change the layout of the sidebar?

meh.

[Kelrugem]

Yesterday I had an AL scheduled D&D game, and I did what I shouldn't have done, I UPDATED before the game.

Constant issues during game of errors due to the extensions/mods, annoying for players and for me.

I don't care about the side bar, I can find things anyway, even if now I think is counter intuitive, but I will get used to this new UI.

However these issues affected my session, it was still playable but I am wondering if having many "add ons" loaded is just a pain in the a** and I should revert to VANILLA FGU, so at least update will just break fewer things.

Now my next game to be GMed is on 29th December, I hope by then fixes will be issued by Smiteworks and also I need to check on DMSGUILD all the new fixes for the files (extensions and mods).

I really wish not having to do this anymore, is time consuming.

For what, to change the layout of the sidebar?

meh.

So far I didn't hear so much about errors of the new patch (except one I want to report later, but not a disturbing one). So, I expect that your extensions may be the culprit :) But this is not something SmiteWorks can fix, that is something to do for the community dev. This is why one usually says to never update on play-day, especially if one uses community extensions :) (surely annoying if this happens)

[Valyar]

Yesterday I had an AL scheduled D&D game, and I did what I shouldn't have done, I UPDATED before the game.

Constant issues during game of errors due to the extensions/mods, annoying for players and for me.

I don't care about the side bar, I can find things anyway, even if now I think is counter intuitive, but I will get used to this new UI.

However these issues affected my session, it was still playable but I am wondering if having many "add ons" loaded is just a pain in the a** and I should revert to VANILLA FGU, so at least update will just break fewer things.

Now my next game to be GMed is on 29th December, I hope by then fixes will be issued by Smiteworks and also I need to check on DMSGUILD all the new fixes for the files (extensions and mods).

I really wish not having to do this anymore, is time consuming.

For what, to change the layout of the sidebar?

meh.

Smite Works are not responsible for any extensions created by external developers. They announced the incoming updates way way before the update hits and gave enough time for developers to adjust their extensions. It is up to the developers to be pro-active and not reactive and us as consumers of those extensions (especially the commercial ones) to adjust before release. If an extension is not fixed, then please don't blame SM for the problem, but the developer who didn't take time to sort it out in the Test channel.

[*Neuro*]

I know, in the end is my decision to use extensions and modules.

By the way I am not using the FORGE, I am still updating through DMSGUILD, downloading once in a while the updated files.


About the side bar I am quite puzzled: imho seems a little bit confusing, Gm side. I didn't see the need for subfolders but is only my opinion.

I had a new player coming from Roll20 experience and for sure I did not want to have these issues to show off.

Anyway usually these gets fixed in time, so I hope in 2 weeks to have most of the issues fixed.


Don't get me wrong I like that Smiteworks improves the software every few months, but from the DM side, I prefer more to have stability and no issues, than to have new features.

Especially when I have public games such as AL D&D games to host.

:)
Peace!

[Jiminimonka]

The last resort here is to have "news" section in the launcher where such things will be posted for those that don't use discord/email/forums. :)

I like the new sidebar.

I suggested that many moons ago. Assume that not many people use the forum and have an announcement window on the launcher saying what's new and what's coming.

[Kelrugem]

I know, in the end is my decision to use extensions and modules.

By the way I am not using the FORGE, I am still updating through DMSGUILD, downloading once in a while the updated files.


About the side bar I am quite puzzled: imho seems a little bit confusing, Gm side. I didn't see the need for subfolders but is only my opinion.

I had a new player coming from Roll20 experience and for sure I did not want to have these issues to show off.

Anyway usually these gets fixed in time, so I hope in 2 weeks to have most of the issues fixed.


Don't get me wrong I like that Smiteworks improves the software every few months, but from the DM side, I prefer more to have stability and no issues, than to have new features.

Especially when I have public games such as AL D&D games to host.

:)
Peace!

No worries :) I certainly understand your view, certainly annoying that it happened right then, especially if you want to convince a new player of FG :)

I like the new sidebar, but yes, new updates certainly will always lead to some erroneous games at the beginning; which is why communication about new updates is important. On one hand we have the laboratory, but on the other hand some of us ask for a better news section in the launcher :) (as some mentioned here)

Here is the wishlist item I once created: https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=135716 :) In my opinion this (better communication about updates) is the most important next thing needed, besides performance updates and maybe in-built audio (due to competition in that regard). People often already ask about next new shiny things. I understand that SmiteWorks don't want to give a roadmap, but then it is even more important to have a better highlighting of new things just released such that people get actually aware of it :)

[SilentRuin]

Extensions = RISK!

Just saying ;)

[Jiminimonka]

Extensions = RISK!

Just saying ;)

That's all you ever say LOL!!! ��

[Valyar]

The more I am using the new sidebar during development and play, the more I like it. Great idea and improvement! :)

[damned]

I didn't see the need for subfolders but is only my opinion.

If you have smaller screen it wont matter if you are GM or Player the collapsing groups will make things accessible.

[Weissrolf]

So what changed? I got an e-mail today with a link to the patch-notes. Latest entry says: "Version 4.1.12 (2021-11)". Not going to the Laboratory anymore, as my presence wasn't liked there. Will do a forum search to see if I can find more up-to-date patchnotes before downloading, because the Updater tells me jack about what to expect and what changed. :P

[jharp]

If I get more energetic today, I will create an extension that slides the menu closed to the right (leaving a button to open to the left again). Unless someone has more energy then I do today and responds that they are already doing this.

Jason

[LordEntrails]

So what changed? I got an e-mail today with a link to the patch-notes. Latest entry says: "Version 4.1.12 (2021-11)". Not going to the Laboratory anymore, as my presence wasn't liked there. Will do a forum search to see if I can find more up-to-date patchnotes before downloading, because the Updater tells me jack about what to expect and what changed. :P
As they always are, the changes are detailed in new dated thread in the City Hall. These changes are in this thread specifically; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?71672-FG-Ruleset-Updates-2021-12

[Weissrolf]

There should be a changelog in the updater, preferably accessible before users decide to update. And the e-mail advertising the big update should point to the correct patchnotes. And maybe add more than a single line about bigger changes?!

Only once these basics work properly should we start a discussion about end-users/customers venting about unknown changes.

[Ludd_G]

If I get more energetic today, I will create an extension that slides the menu closed to the right (leaving a button to open to the left again). Unless someone has more energy then I do today and responds that they are already doing this.

Jason

This would be brilliant! Fingers crossed for rising energy levels! :D

[jharp]

This would be brilliant! Fingers crossed for rising energy levels! :D

I am working on it but am having some difficulty with z-order. Will update when I get it working.
Jason

[Myrdin Potter]

I check the forums and look at the thread saying changes are coming. I never run in text mode, I run 2 games and me and my players don't have time to deal with Beta. I have told eveyone not to update a few times before a major update. This one was very simple and smooth considering the big changes. Very good job in the background on the rulesets.