Well Annotated To Hit and Damage Modifiers

[Griogre]

I end up telling/explaining this to the players in most of my FG2 D&D games and I though some of you might find this useful. To preface I don’t like the weapon slots part of the FG2 Character (for use with weapons anyway – what I like to use them for is another topic).

I don’t like the way the current character sheet works because, as DM, I like to see the pluses for attacks and damage fully explained. Doing this way saves a great deal of time (no more asking did you remember the ____?). It also helps make sure you don't forget a mod which is very, very, common in the mid to upper levels because your fellow players and DM can see if you forgot that Haste or Curse or whatever. In fact this is an area where FG can be superior to a face to face game.

Probably, before I begin, I should mention the best place on the FG2 character sheet to create annotated modifiers is the abilities section of the character sheet. To do so there, just add a line and then drag the modifier box over and drop it on the line. It bears mentioning that there is a mini sheet for abilities where you can change the mod or add to the mods description without having to open your character sheet.

Using Kaelia, a 7th level fighter with two attacks as an example - what I suggest you do is make a mod (or die code) for her first attack and another for her second attack. For these mods which should very rarely change just lump everything together. For example, for the fighter’s main attack you make a +12 mod which says +1 Bastard Sword, +7 BAB, +3 Str, +1 Weap Focus. This clearly explains the +12 mod to attack. Do a +7 mod for her Second Swing: +1 Bastard Sword, +2 BAB, +3 Str, +1 Weap Focus. I would put these in the F1 and F2 hot keys so the one and two of the key reminds you what attack it is. For a non power attacking fighter like Kaelia, I would make a die code for her damage that says /die 1d10+6 +1 Bastard Sword +3 St, +2 Weap Specialization. You could just make a +6 mod, though that says +1 Bastard Sword +3 St, +2 Weap Specialization and toss a d10.

These are you baselines to attack and damage. As combat happens in a significant encounter you will usually get several additional mods you can add these to the baseline. I think the easiest way to is to keep a running total modifier stack for each fight. So lets say you get Bless cast in the first round. I would open the Abilities tab on you character Sheet and type +1 Bless and drag out a +1 mod to the Ability tab and then drag the +1 from the ability area down to a scratch Function key, say F12.

When it came time to swing I would press F1 then F12 to load the baseline attack and add the current combat stack to your first attack. For the second attack press F2 and then F12, etc. As the fight continues the mage casts Haste so you bring up the Abilities entry (or use the mini sheet) and where it says +1 Bless and you add “, +1 Haste” then roll the mod up to +2 and drag it back down into F12. Thus your F12 key is a mod stack with just the adds or subtracts to the characters baseline attack any changes to attack rolls for that encounter i.e. +1 Bless, +1 Haste for the current fight.

Just a reminder, in FG2 you can make a die code for you main attack and drag it into F1 because die codes now pick up the mod box. If you did this (and most players with higher level characters seem to in my games) you would just press F12 first and then F1 to throw the die for the first attack to add the baseline mods to the encounter mods. [Edit: I more fully explained this in a post on the second page of the thread.]

This takes far less time to do than it did for me to type this. :p

In this example I used a modifier stack that don't change much plus encounter mods that tend to last for the duration of the encounter or a large portion of it. However, there are other mods that typically only last a round like Charge or others like Power Attack which may change from round to round. These are easy to do using the same technique or a hot key as a separate mod stack. Power Attack in particular is a good thing to do as a separate modifier stack.

If anyone has any other tips of things you use to help your game I'd love to hear them.

[Ram Tyr]

I too love to see detailed annotated die rolls. :)

Looks well written. (Though I admit I scanned through the heart of the post. Definitely easier to do than to explain. But so rewarding!)

Thanks for taking the time. (I had an opportunity to do a similar post yesterday and ended up simply saying someting along the lines of 'play with the hotkeys'. I appreciate you doing this!)

Later.

[joshuha]

One thing I am not getting though is why you don't like to use the weapon sheets for the full attacks? You can still put the modifiers as hotkeys (which is what I do) but when can have it roll all 4 attacks and apply the annotated modifiers.

[Griogre]

One thing I am not getting though is why you don't like to use the weapon sheets for the full attacks? You can still put the modifiers as hotkeys (which is what I do) but when can have it roll all 4 attacks and apply the annotated modifiers.
The weapon sheets work fine if all you put in is something like +1 Flaming Longsword. However if you want the all the mods spelled out then they are not so good. They work fine until you have multiple attacks. The real reason I don't like the weapon slot setup is because the weapon description text is constant.

In the example I used above if I put Kalia's attack mods in the weapon description it would be: +1 Bastard Sword, +7 BAB, +3 Str, +1 Weap Focus

Since the Display of the weapon's text is constant the +7 BAB will be displayed in every attack. My goal is to have the pluses in the descriptions equal the modifier's total. This way every player and DM can see if the player forgot a mod. I use voice in my games and it is not that uncommon to hear after a roll where the other players can see all the mod: "You forgot higher ground..." or something similar.

The small amount of displayed text also makes it hard to edit and see what the description the weapon currently has. The weapon's text is also used in the damage roll and that is always going to be wrong.

This can be fixed by using a separate line for the second attack but the damage description will still be wrong. So I could make another line for just the damage roll but if I'm going to do that I might as well make it hot keys where it is easier to cleave, great cleave and confirm threats.

Ironically to me, I find the weapon slots best used for spells. I.E. where the weapon name is put Fireball DC 20 Ref and put correct number of d6s in damage. Works great for Magic Missile too and many ray attacks because the to attack rolls of many range touch attacks even multiple ones have the same modifiers to hit.

[joshuha]

I agree with you that the bonus field isn't good for multiple permanent modifiers but I hotkey these anyways. It still nice that it breaks up my iteratives for me and applies the -5 and all of my queued hotkey bonuses to each attack.

[maartenlogghe]

Hi,

I have figured out how I can place the modifiers in a shortcut and I have figured out how I can put a die roll in a shortcut.

But I'm clueless on how to combine the 2. So what I'm looking for is:
- I use the special abilities to mark my bonuses.
1) BAB +7
2) strength bonus +2
3) weapon focus +1
- I can drag them on the modifier stack

so how do I make a shortcut that immediately throws a d20 with that modifier stack?

so the output would be something like this:
12 (dieroll result) + BAB+7, Strength Bonus+2, weapon focus +1

In his excellent original post Griogre seems to imply this is possible...

cheers,
maarten

[Toadwart]

Hi,

I have figured out how I can place the modifiers in a shortcut and I have figured out how I can put a die roll in a shortcut.

But I'm clueless on how to combine the 2. So what I'm looking for is:
- I use the special abilities to mark my bonuses.
1) BAB +7
2) strength bonus +2
3) weapon focus +1
- I can drag them on the modifier stack

so how do I make a shortcut that immediately throws a d20 with that modifier stack?

so the output would be something like this:
12 (dieroll result) + BAB+7, Strength Bonus+2, weapon focus +1

In his excellent original post Griogre seems to imply this is possible...

cheers,
maarten

The easiest way I know of is to make a single entry in "special abilities" with the text like: "Longsword. BAB +7, STR +2, WpnFocus +1" and number value = 10.
Drag that onto a hotkey (e.g. F2)
Drag a d20 onto a hotkey (I use F1)

Then press F2 to load the +10 into the modifier box, followed by F1 to make a roll using those modifiers.

Similarly, if you have hotkeyed your saves/skills you can press the hotkey to load it into the modifiser box followed by F1.

If you have other temporary modifiers bound to a hotkey (e.g. Bless and Haste bound to a F12) simply hit F12, F2 and F1.

[maartenlogghe]

The easiest way I know of is to make a single entry in "special abilities" with the text like: "Longsword. BAB +7, STR +2, WpnFocus +1" and number value = 10.
Drag that onto a hotkey (e.g. F2)
Drag a d20 onto a hotkey (I use F1)

Then press F2 to load the +10 into the modifier box, followed by F1 to make a roll using those modifiers.

Similarly, if you have hotkeyed your saves/skills you can press the hotkey to load it into the modifiser box followed by F1.

If you have other temporary modifiers bound to a hotkey (e.g. Bless and Haste bound to a F12) simply hit F12, F2 and F1.

So it's not possible to combine the die roll and the modifier in 1 shortcut?

cheers,
maarten

[GoOrange]

I don't think it's possible, or at least I haven't found a way yet.

[Griogre]

No, not the way you are talking about. What you do is this - instead of makeing the big modifier that seldom changes a modifier - you use a die code. So in your example above assuming a longsword you would type in chat:
/die 1d20+10 Longword, +7 BAB, +2 Str, +1 Weap Focus - and I would drag this into F1. For F2, I would make the 2nd attack:
/die 1d20+5 Longsword, +2 BAB, +2 Str, +1 Weap Focus - and drag that down into F2.

Most of my high level players do this because you don't have to roll dice. Then what you do is keep the running total of the current fights modifiers in F12 like I mentioned above. What you do different is use the dice throwing hotkey last. So you press F12 first in this example and then the F1 or F2 keys. IE first attack done by pressing F12, then F1 to pick up the modifer and roll the character's first attack.

The advantage of doing it this way is it is faster and this is important with 3 or more attacks. The disadvantage is it is a little less flexable because what can you do if you say get Str Drained? The character's Str is build into the die roll. What you do is put the minus to str in the F12 Stack.

Edit: Just wanted to mention this something you couldn't do in FG1 because die codes didn't grab the modifier stack.

[maartenlogghe]

Ok! Now I understand. Thank you very much for your help. We'll definately use all of your recommendations!

cheers,
maarten

[Tokuriku]

Quick question...

It seems I can't figue out how to put a modifier on the dice...
I believe that I could put a modifier in the modifier box then drag 1/some dice on the ability and drop it there and all would enter there.
I crashed a few moments back while exiting FGII and now, it doesn't seem that I can enter them anymore.

EDIT:
Sorry about that, I read the other posts and it seems it wasn't feasable to start of with.
I probably put the dice in thinking that the modifier got in as well and tried the roll once wich trigered the modifier. If I had tried more then once, I'd have seen it wasn't stocked.

Now for maartenlogghe and the others also, the abilities plus this little hack make for a firery combination.
You can call these abilities directly from the database so without having to load them before the roll.
You can call your F12 and F1 in one shot.
And even if they change, the call would not change :), you would not have to drag them back in the hotkey...
LINK (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7176)
Go to page 2.

[Xorn]

I'm not saying the way you're doing it is wrong, but I guess I never found the weapon list to be lacking in functionality. Since your BAB, abilities, feats, and enhancements are pretty constant--I don't need that written out in long form.

I've got a ranger in my group that fights with a pair of shortswords. He has 3 hotkeys set up on his toolbar for hit-rolls & damage:

1: Short Sword (Attack 1): 1d20+7 < this is attack #1 mainhand
2: Short Sword (MH): 1d6+5 < this is dmg mainhand
3: Short Sword (OH): 1d6+3 < this is dmg offhand

Then he has some modifiers set up:
4: +2 Flanking
5: -2 Two Weapons (MH/OH)
6: +1 Higher Ground

etc.

So they kick in a door and surprise some dire rats. He runs in the first round and makes a regular attack: he pushes 1, it rolls and hits, he pushes 2, damage rolls. His next turn the fighter has moved into a flanking position and the ranger executes a full-round attack, dual wielding.

He pushes 4, 5, and 1. First attack rolls hits. Push 2 for damage. Then he does 4, 5, and 1. Second attack hits, he pushes 3 for the damage.

When he hits level 6 (getting his first iterative attack, plus improved two-weapon fighting--meaning an offhand iterative attack), then he'll add another hotkey for Short Sword (Attack 2). He'll have 4 attacks total, two at BAB, and two at BAB-5. If he dual wields he just clicks the -2 penalty before rolling. If he gets a STR drain during a fight, then he just re-drags his adjusted attacks from the weapon list down to temp hotkeys. After all, when he applied the STR damage to his sheet, it auto adjusted his attack line.

[richvalle]

Yeah, but just wait till they get to higher levels. Our group usually has some of the following running during any given fight:

Prayer, haste, divine power, divine favor, bard's inspire courage, bard's inspire greatness, enlarge, bulls str, flanking, invisable, greater magic weapon, smite evil....

These all come in different combo's during the fight. What your ranger is doing is pretty much what G is saying G carries it out to include all the ad-hoc bonuses that can happen during a fight.

There have been many times in our games that someone has rolled a to-hit and someone else points out that they missed something in their roll because it is not listed in the text for the roll.

rv

[Xorn]

Well the trick is to just keep killing them off before they get past level 5!

:D

But seriously, I see your point. Thinking about it off-hand though, for buffs that will apply for the duration of a fight, I'll just type:

/die +# Combat Buffs

Same thing, only I doubt I'll type out what all the static modifiers are. But yeah, though I didn't quite realize we're talking about the same thing, I agree--great idea!

[Griogre]

The problem also is sometimes not every character has the same buffs and debuffs either and some may not stack with a character's magic items.

Killing them off before 6th level works too, though. :D

[Toadwart]

You ever play HackMaster Griogre?
The HackMaster DM gets a little skull-n-bones token for each PC death.
Can just picture the walls, floor and ceiling of your games room covered with tokens. Heh Heh. ;)

[Griogre]

Nah, I played Paranoia. Never had so many PC's died so fast and with such enjoyment and amazement by me and the players. I actually lost my voice running that game once in colledge.

[Xorn]

One of my players in this campaign has never played tabletop, just computer RPGs (BG, NWN, etc). At times he's that really, really annoying player, who would be a rules lawyer--if he knew the rules. Once or twice a game he'll say, "That's not how Dodge works in NWN." or something along those lines. Story takes a back-seat to rules with him, but he doesn't know the rules either, so basically he just meta-games a lot. Luckily the rest of my group (who I have been DMing for over a decade) now answer "This isn't NWN!" for me. :)

He reminds me of this player we had back in 1997. He was a horrible meta-gamer, just could not separate what he knew from what his character knew. They were opening a chest and the thief in the party was afraid to try and disarm the trap (RP'd that way). The magic-user (played by this guy) says, "We're twenty minutes into the game and we're second level, there's not going to be a lethal trap this early in the game!" and opened the (trapped) chest.

I could have just rolled some extra dice to make sure the steel spike that would poke him (not even poisoned) would be lethal, but that was too covert. I told him he takes one point of damage from a spike trap in the chest, then swatted my DM screen out of the way and rolled every die I had across the battle map (probably 50-60 dice). "And then a Fing meteor crashes through the crumbled rubble of the ceiling and hits you in the Fing head for that much more damage!" He was stunned for a moment as everyone else stared at me with wide eyes and barely contained laughter.

"A... meteor!?" was all he could get out.

"Yeah, weird, huh?" I snatched his character sheet and tore it in half and through it over my shoulder.

The only time I ever heard my players laugh that hard from a comment I made again was when I told this current group (3 of which were present at that game) I was naming the campaign, "Watch for Falling Meteors".

Sorry to derail though. On topic:
If you have differing levels of buffs per character, I'd still be making a different static modifier per character, right? I'm just typing (Combat Buffs) instead of typing out each and every little thing. :)

[Valarian]

Nah, I played Paranoia. Never had so many PC's died so fast and with such enjoyment and amazement by me and the players. I actually lost my voice running that game once in colledge.
Ahhh ... I remember Paranoia.

Start the game with six clones of your character
Lose 1 in the briefing for making a smart comment
Lose 1 in the transit tube on the way to R&D
Lose 1 in R&D testing the latest mad invention we have to take on the mission
Lose 1 during the mission trying to use the latest mad invention from R&D
Lose 1 during the mission to backstabbing and conniving
Lose 1 in debriefing in order to keep the mission details secret

For some reason, we never got above Red level.

Anyone remember the Thermonuclear Hand Grenade?
1. Pull pin
2. Throw grenade
3. Run 30 miles

[richvalle]

If you have differing levels of buffs per character, I'd still be making a different static modifier per character, right? I'm just typing (Combat Buffs) instead of typing out each and every little thing. :)

Hah... funny story!

Honestly, I let the players worry about their buffs. They now know how to handle them way better then I can as I don't use them much at all as the DM. They each have their own way of keeping track of their buffs, spells cast, turn attemts, ect, ect.

rv

[Xorn]

Hah... funny story!

Honestly, I let the players worry about their buffs. They now know how to handle them way better then I can as I don't use them much at all as the DM. They each have their own way of keeping track of their buffs, spells cast, turn attemts, ect, ect.

rv

You raise an excellent point. I suppose a lot of the usefulness of this idea depends on how familiar your gaming group is to you. If Joshua, who I have been DMing (and taught how to DM) for... 22 years... wow... just sticks a +7 on his combat roll with no explanatory text, I wouldn't think another thing of it. :P

If Nick (the new guy) had an unexplained +1 on there, I'd actually ask what it was for. It's actually funny, because after being out of the DMing scene for 4 years, Josh & I are still a little rusty, so mid-fight sometimes he'll send me a whisper, "Did you remember to apply fire damage for the flaming oil this turn?"

Or, "Remember my Dodge is applied to that guy, he still hit me?"

He never questions me publicly, being a firm believer of "Story > Rules", like me. But he has several times referred to the dire rats they fought last game as ninja rats doing John Woo stuff, all because he missed them twice. :P

[Sorontar]

*pictures dire rat kicking a chair at the party and then sliding across the table whilst drawing twin berettas*

:D

[Griogre]

I'm with Rich, I let each player handle their buffs. If they forget one and everyone can see it they will tell the guy, trust me. ;)

*Snicker* LOL I was seeing the same thing with that Dire Rat...

[joshuha]

Old thread but thought you would be interested in something I am cooking up.

This is a flash demo of a work in progress. I am still playing around with the rendering so its like 9 meg so apologize for that ahead of time.


https://www.ptolus-fg.com/demo/Verbose_Demo.htm

[Griogre]

I watched the demo and it is very nice Joshuha. Naturally I think it's a good idea ;) and I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

[Bidmaron]

Joshuha, the link is dead. What were you trying to do?
--dale--