Request for feedback on beta testing by Mac M1 users

[Moon Wizard]

The most recent beta test, started on July 22nd, uses an updated Unity engine than should support M1 Macs natively. The Unity engine specifies it is creating a universal build for both Intel and M1 Macs. Since we do not have an M1 Mac for testing, we want to get community feedback on whether the beta build works on their M1 Macs.

We currently have one report of a user encountering a Lua library issue on an M1 Mac; but since it was the first time we received a report like that in two weeks of the beta test, I'm unsure if it's a general issue for all M1 Macs, or a specific issue of this machine (security, install, etc.) This particular issue would happen whenever loading or joining a campaign.

I need to hear from M1 Mac users whether they are able to load, host and join campaigns; either successfully or unsuccessfully. Until I hear feedback from M1 Mac users, I'm hesitant to push the beta test forward for release candidate to Live. The current Live build uses an Intel Mac executable; which currently runs on M1 Macs through Rosetta without issues that we know of.

Thanks for your help,
JPG

[charmov]

Hi there! I have the m1 mac Mini. There were some issues earlier on, trying to launch would cause a crash and I'd have to reinstall. I'm not sure if this had to do with Rosetta or not. From what i could tell it was due to some updates in MacOs.

Since then I've had no problems hosting. I only GM so i can't say much about connecting. I did post on my issues in one of the other MAC threads but am at a loss to find it now. Oops here it is https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?68503-FGU-crashing/page2

[Mundo Guerreiro]

Hi there! I have the m1 mac Mini. There were some issues earlier on, trying to launch would cause a crash and I'd have to reinstall. I'm not sure if this had to do with Rosetta or not. From what i could tell it was due to some updates in MacOs.

Since then I've had no problems hosting. I only GM so i can't say much about connecting. I did post on my issues in one of the other MAC threads but am at a loss to find it now. Oops here it is https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?68503-FGU-crashing/page2

I Have a Mac Mini M1 running the Big Sur 11.5.1
On Test mode, I am having problems connecting and host any Campaign. On Live mode, I haven´t had any significant issues.

[Moon Wizard]

@charmov,

Are you running in the Live channel? Or have you tried in the Test (beta) channel?

The issue that @Mundo is having is specific to the Test (beta) channel.

Thanks,
JPG

[charmov]

Yes, I am on Live. Shoulda read the title more carefully.

[Moon Wizard]

Since I have one report of issues on M1 Macs with the native build (@Mundo Guerreiro) and no positive reports, I reverted to making Intel Mac builds, and letting Mac M1 Rosetta handle the emulation like previous versions.

If you're interested in working with me to test a native M1 build by setting up time to go back and forth as I make builds to test, please reach out via PM.

Regards,
JPG

[Valyar]

What is required from the M1 testers to perform in terms of activities?

[Moon Wizard]

I basically need someone I can communicate back and forth with to try out builds to see if they work using the Dev channel. So, the person needs to have a M1 Mac, and be comfortable with switching channels and moving data files around as needed.

At this point, I have one negative data point, and no positive data points, for whether the new universal Mac build of FGU works on M1 Macs. The build I pushed yesterday removed the "universal" aspect; because I am concerned that this will delay the new version even more than it has been.

The one negative report I have from @Mundo points to the Lua library failing to load.

At this point, either:
* The native build works on most machines (except for @Mundo's, which I would need to investigate separately)
* Or the build fails on all machines (which implies that we have to figure out how to get a M1 binary of the Lua library v5.1.5)

Regards,
JPG

[Valyar]

If there is no need to ask players to join and I can do it using local connections from second instance or another reference computer, I can support testing on M1, as I recently acquired Mac mini M1. :)

[charmov]

I successfully logged into TEST. I couldn't send this in a PM but I'll post it here.

48669

[Moon Wizard]

After testing with a couple Mac M1 users, it looks like there may be multiple issues going on here. (additional security requirement on M1 Macs; as well as possibly need to get binaries for multiple coding libraries for M1 Macs). Since this is not something we have the equipment or bandwidth for right now, and the fact that the M1 Macs are running the Intel version via Rosetta just fine, we're going to stay with the Intel-only build for now and re-visit based on M1 usage growth.

Regards,
JPG

[Eliyah]

I have an M1 where do I sign up

[Moon Wizard]

As noted in my previous post, we’ve decided to shelve an M1 native build for now as the Intel Mac build runs fine on both and the work needed for a native M1 build is beyond the scope of the time and equipment we have at this time.

Regards,
JPG

[seanjgbr]

I am happy to test FGU on mac. I have a macbook air m1. Only 8GB RAM and 256GB HD, but happy to test.

I'm a developer myself, so should be able to give you some useful feedback.

[BergQuester]

If I can find the time, I would also be happy to help out with future testing. I have one of the new MacBook Pros with an M1 Max CPU.

I'm also a software engineer by trade, so I wouldn't be afraid of doing a paired testing session of even loading up Unity while paired. I just don't want to see native support for ARM Macs end up dragging out well past the point it is required as 64-bit support did.

Again, if I am able to set aside the time.

[jaharmi]

I am interested in this, and like @BergQuester, would like to help to avoid native support for Apple Silicon lagging. My main Mac is Intel-based but I can run on an M1 device for testing. I currently DM in FGU but do not join as a player. If there were a test game set up, I would be willing to play.

I'd be interested in what the statistics are for Mac usage overall, and the split between Intel and Apple Silicon Macs, if Smiteworks were willing to share general numbers/trends.

[The Demiurge]

I have a Macbook Air M1 and will be downloading FGU demo... If it works well on the laptop, Ill buy.

[jaharmi]

The last update on the Apple Silicon native version seems to be almost a year ago. Is support for the new CPUs moving higher in the priority list?

There appear to be a number of problems that are possibly related to Rosetta on Apple Silicon Macs:

FGU crashing (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?68503-FGU-crashing)

Dice sound disappeared on macOS (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?74279-Dice-sound-disappeared-on-macOS)

Fantasy Grounds Unity immediately crashes in macOS Ventura (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?74547-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-immediately-crashes-in-macOS-Ventura)

From what I could tell of the crash reports/logs and other information posted in these threads, they appear exclusively on Apple Silicon Macs. Having a native version of FGU would bypass the Rosetta Intel translation that may be at the root of these problem.

It also sounds like FGU for macOS is built on macOS 10.15. The last release, macOS 10.15.7, is now nearly three years old (October 2019). This is almost an eternity in macOS development, for good or ill, especially for a smaller cross-platform development company. Depending on the FGU platform statistics for Macs, it may be useful to reconsider support for older macOS versions. Apple itself is dropping support for quite a few models with the upcoming macOS Ventura. There are still Intel Mac models supported, but there are also more and more models of Apple Silicon Macs being introduced.

I don't know what limitations exist for building FGU for Apple Silicon / Universal2. I'm just closer to the Mac platform / ecosystem and hope to provide a bit of that perspective.

[Moon Wizard]

The priority has not changed at this point, as everything has been working pretty well.

Some notes:

The threads you posted are not relevant to M1s specifically, but mostly related to changing OS versions.
The first thread you posted is a year old, and not tied to an active current issue.
The second thread is an intermittent issue (as reported by user), and not reported by other users; so unlikely to be systemic issue.
The third thread was literally just posted this morning, and is related to a beta version of an OS (which we don't support until release, due to previous scenarios just like this, i.e. beta OS not working with apps).
In order to support backward compatibility to allow FG to run on older Mac OS versions, our build machine needs to be installed with the build I have. (though bmos did mention dual booting Mac OS versions I might investigate eventually if my machine can handle.)
Unfortunately, it is non-trivial to "not update" older Mac users; as our ruleset code depends on changing to new builds, people are using older machines (and would suddenly "not work"), and our patch system has no way to differentiate by OS version (and based on other items, probably isn't generally a good idea to differentiate).
Additionally, we have no way currently to support M1 vs. Intel application delivery (i.e. our patch system has a single channel for Mac builds); so it would require new development of code that does not have an active developer (including server, updater and client changes) at this point.


I'm going to close this thread, because this was related to a specific request by me a year ago that is not relevant right now.

EDIT: As pointed out by @BergQuester, I had forgotten that the Mac offers a "universal build" that should work for a single channel patch system. Now that my memory has been jogged, I do remember that when I tried to build the universal build last year that it didn't work, because we don't have an M1 Mac to develop/test on, nor M1 builds for all the libraries we use (Lua, Skia, etc.).

Regards,
JPG