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ddavison
July 19th, 2021, 22:59
We are announcing the FG Forge to friends on the forums and on Discord today, ahead of a more public launch announcement next week.

The Fantasy Grounds Forge (the FG Forge) is a new system where creators can share content for free or sell it. Forge users can then purchase or subscribe to content and any updates for it will automatically update within Fantasy Grounds Unity whenever the user runs an Update. Whenever the creator pushes a new version, these changes will get automatically installed whenever the user runs an Update. Never again will users need to hunt down updates on multiple forum pages after an update. Creators will be able to see how many people are subscribed, earn money, receive donations (coming soon), ratings, and more.

All forum users can access the forge to subscribe to creations, and forum users can also sign up to be approved as a creator. We have heavy moderation for now, so every new crafter, item, image, and build upload has to go through moderation and approval. As time goes on, we will add the ability for trusted crafters to be auto-approved.

Link:
https://forge.fantasygrounds.com
For Forge Support Tickets or Bug Reports:
https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/group/8

MrDDT
July 20th, 2021, 00:01
How do you unsubscribe?

Found it, its under inventory.

Great work, thanks for doing this and putting this out.

bmos
July 20th, 2021, 00:14
yay!
I can't wait to see where this takes FG :)

SilentRuin
July 20th, 2021, 00:21
Congrats!

Zacchaeus
July 20th, 2021, 00:22
Jolly Good.

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 00:36
Nice :)

daggerfortysix
July 20th, 2021, 00:42
What is the process going to be for paid extensions the we have already paid for on the DMsGuild?

SilentRuin
July 20th, 2021, 00:50
What is the process going to be for paid extensions the we have already paid for on the DMsGuild?

There is none at the moment according to talks I've had with them. Ideally there would be a link provided by DMsG that was usable as validation of purchase in SW Forge but that would require two separate companies to agree on it. As email is how DMsG handles its sales (which may not match email used in SW) and is private data - that's the only way I can think of doing it. But I'm no expert.

Gist is - my paid will wait till something is worked out - if anything. Requires DMsG to give permission to move - and then provide some validation that it was already paid for. If they wish to even do something like that.

TopHatG
July 20th, 2021, 01:00
This is fantastic. Already downloaded me some new extensions!!

anathemort
July 20th, 2021, 01:10
It's really great to see some of my favorite authors already engaged with the Forge. What a great addition to the platform, well done!

ddavison
July 20th, 2021, 01:10
What is the process going to be for paid extensions the we have already paid for on the DMsGuild?

There is no good solution for that. Customers will be able to contact the crafter with a private message and show proof of ownership somehow. The crafter will then be able to gift a copy to another user. The gift option is not built yet.

Until DMsGuild actually removes items, you can keep updating it there for customers and they can manually install updates. I don’t know how much longer those will remain viable. That is outside our control and is up to Wizards of the Coast and DMsGuild.

If your content uses Wizards of the Coasts’ intellectual property, then it can’t be posted to the FG Forge at all.

johnecc
July 20th, 2021, 01:12
Great work SW. Something else that will help set FGU above the rest.

macDsinfo
July 20th, 2021, 01:38
Good news!

johnecc
July 20th, 2021, 01:51
Okay, functionality question here, does the Forge download items to the appropriate folder, extensions, modules, rulesets, etc? I assume it would, but just want to confirm.

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 01:53
Okay, functionality question here, does the Forge download items to the appropriate folder, extensions, modules, rulesets, etc? I assume it would, but just want to confirm.

That is up to the dev: As a crafter I can either choose that my stuff is loaded into your vault folder or in "data". Data then will put the file into the correct subfolder, so, yes to your question :) Otherwise it is in the vault directory like an official mod from the FG shop

Ulric
July 20th, 2021, 03:02
This is great! Please send some love to Starfinder! I've got cred sticks ready to spend!

Evolivolution
July 20th, 2021, 04:59
This is great! Please send some love to Starfinder! I've got cred sticks ready to spend!

Big plus from my side ^^

Diamonds
July 20th, 2021, 05:32
Bugreport: Getting a Free item on pages after 1 will reset to page 1.

Repo:
1. Search for bmos
2. Go to page 2
3. Get an item from page 2

You will now be on page 1

Zygmunt Molotch
July 20th, 2021, 09:10
there is no download or get button on each extension page, even if logged in, only on the search page, is this intentional?

Suggestion: a ruleset compatibility filter & known issues/bugs

Suggestion: even if paid content a user should be able to correct or submit bugs, by having content in the vault, users can be stuck with broken, unsupported or unfixed ext, some integration somewhere to allow user submitted fixes might be a modern way forward

Zaister
July 20th, 2021, 09:29
So this means that the source code of these extensions is no longer accessible then, right?

Zygmunt Molotch
July 20th, 2021, 09:30
So this means that the source code of these extensions is no longer accessible then, right?

I think thats the case if the creator has chosen that (ie: gets downloaded to Vault, rather than Extension folder), so the posts above explain...

I'm not sure I like this... does it mean we can't fix things, *even* if we bought it?

I can only see this creating more fragmentation as 100s of users scramble to upload fixes for the same extensions (like RimWorld's terribad implementation), this could be moderated by being a curated store, but I've not seen any company pull that off, even Steam binned it (eek)

Zacchaeus
July 20th, 2021, 10:56
there is no download or get button on each extension page, even if logged in, only on the search page, is this intentional?

Suggestion: a ruleset compatibility filter & known issues/bugs

Suggestion: even if paid content a user should be able to correct or submit bugs, by having content in the vault, users can be stuck with broken, unsupported or unfixed ext, some integration somewhere to allow user submitted fixes might be a modern way forward

There is a filter for ruleset.

Report issues on the forums. It will be up to the author to release fixes and updates. 99.9% of users won't have a clue how to fix an issue. It's up to the author whether they add the files to the vault or allow the code to be viewed.

Drogo210
July 20th, 2021, 11:04
God bless SW :). There is a bit of confusion on how crafters put subtypes for filtering but that totally fine. I am just so glad you have added this feature!!!!

Zygmunt Molotch
July 20th, 2021, 11:33
There is a filter for ruleset.

not an Accurate one ;-)

example: Token Height is listed as 5E, but actually supports multiple rulesets, including 3.5 and OGL, this could be corrected, I think


Report issues on the forums. It will be up to the author to release fixes and updates. 99.9% of users won't have a clue how to fix an issue.

not sure I agree with that, but it's conjecture, so we should leave that


It's up to the author whether they add the files to the vault or allow the code to be viewed

That's true, same for users, they can choose whether to use this or something offsite which is curated and has user submitted fixes/review/editable :D

still, I'm hopeful! all progress is good progress!

congrats, let see how it goes!

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 12:47
there is no download or get button on each extension page, even if logged in, only on the search page, is this intentional?

The extensions get downloaded if you hit the update button in the FG launcher :)

About the vault stuff: Well, the same holds for official modules and extensions (although the latter are rare in the FG shop) :) And you can always ask the corresponding dev whether or not they want to put something into the usual data folder :) I think most devs probably keep the data folder (or have a separate git distribution), and maybe more devs are attracted if they see that they can protect their code via the vault :)

Zygmunt Molotch
July 20th, 2021, 13:22
The extensions get downloaded if you hit the update button in the FG launcher :)


not quite, let me show you in discord, as images are not shareable here

basically, I can only download from the search page, not from the extension page

I am thinking there is something not correct with cache and login tokens


maybe more devs are attracted if they see that they can protect their code via the vault

maybe, but that isn't true of industry, quite the opposite now, openness is the only progress, with the intention that if everyone can see flaws, then everyone can suggest fixes :p

but sure, there's always a counter argument that it doesn't apply everywhere

bah I'm only grumbling, so it gets fixed! I do like FG very much, forward is always better

"squeaky wheels get greased"

still, happy to see how it plays out!

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 13:29
not quite, let me show you in discord, as images are not shareable here

basically, I can only download from the search page, not from the extension page

I am thinking there is something not correct with cache and login tokens



maybe, but that isn't true of industry, quite the opposite now, openness is the only progress :p

but sure, there's always a counter argument

still, happy to see how it plays out!

Oh, yes, I can swear that the "Get!" button was shown on the extension's forge page yesterday, but indeed, today it is gone :D

About industry: Hm, oki :) (I have honestly not much experience in that regard, just speculating around :D)

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 14:19
Tried to apply as a Crafter this morning but my application kept getting rejected as "invalid" until I clicked the "I want to sell things" checkbox and then gave it my Paypal and Tax ID.

Not sure if that's intentional, a bug, or just a really weird coincidence that my first 4-5 times submitting failed and just happened to work after checking that box and filling that extra info in. I plan to release all my stuff free so didn't expect I'd need to check that box.

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 14:34
A nice feature would be a means to see all Forge items listed by a particular author, so if you like someone's work, it's easy to find their other stuff. Basically, a Profile page for authors with a link to their stuff.

SilentRuin
July 20th, 2021, 15:05
The extensions get downloaded if you hit the update button in the FG launcher :)

About the vault stuff: Well, the same holds for official modules and extensions (although the latter are rare in the FG shop) :) And you can always ask the corresponding dev whether or not they want to put something into the usual data folder :) I think most devs probably keep the data folder (or have a separate git distribution), and maybe more devs are attracted if they see that they can protect their code via the vault :)

I'm pretty sure the fact the "vault" being the default selection when creating a deliverable is why any "free" stuff currently has it set (by mistake as dev was not aware what it actually did). As for intentionally setting it? No clue of the reasoning as extensions are usually things people modify as part of the reason for grabbing them. If the author doesn't want you to modify or see their deliverables though (intentionally chose vault) that is their choice as seller. This can be especially true when dealing with art or other proprietary stuff. Your choice as customer is to ask them to change it to "data" so the .ext/.mod is available to you - live with the authors choice - or don't get that product.

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 15:07
A nice feature would be a means to see all Forge items listed by a particular author, so if you like someone's work, it's easy to find their other stuff. Basically, a Profile page for authors with a link to their stuff.

all of that is already implemented :) You can use the search bar to search for an author's name. And all crafters have a profile, e.g. click the crafter's name in your inventory; that will show a page with the crafter's stuff :)

Trenloe
July 20th, 2021, 15:13
basically, I can only download from the search page, not from the extension page
Yeah, it seems to be working back-to-front. If you already have the title in your inventory then the "Get" button appears on the page, if you don't have it in your inventory then the button doesn't appear in the individual page.

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 15:23
I'm pretty sure the fact the "vault" being the default selection when creating a deliverable is why any "free" stuff currently has it set (by mistake as dev was not aware what it actually did). As for intentionally setting it? No clue of the reasoning as extensions are usually things people modify as part of the reason for grabbing them. If the author doesn't want you to modify or see their deliverables though (intentionally chose vault) that is their choice as seller. This can be especially true when dealing with art or other proprietary stuff. Your choice as customer is to ask them to change it to "data" so the .ext/.mod is available to you - live with the authors choice - or don't get that product.

To that end, it would be useful as a purchaser to know ahead of time whether or not something you hoped to purchase is Vaulted or not, so that might be good info for FG to automatically add to the store page. Just as an example, I've been wanting to use a 2E extension similar to your token containers one for 5E. Been debating for a long time between writing my own or just buying yours and then modifying it as needed for 2E. It'd be a bummer to buy it only to find out afterwards it's vaulted and uneditable. (Note: Just using that as an example, I have this same thought process with a ton of other paid extensions by other authors too!)

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 15:45
all of that is already implemented :) You can use the search bar to search for an author's name. And all crafters have a profile, e.g. click the crafter's name in your inventory; that will show a page with the crafter's stuff :)

Good point about the search bar. I was thinking a link directly on the extension you're looking at that takes you to the Author's profile though. I don't have anything in my inventory right now so didn't know there was a link on there... I've just been looking at the page where you're trying to decide to buy, and there's no link from there. Is there a way to get there BEFORE you buy something from them?

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 16:02
Good point about the search bar. I was thinking a link directly on the extension you're looking at that takes you to the Author's profile though. I don't have anything in my inventory right now so didn't know there was a link on there... I've just been looking at the page where you're trying to decide to buy, and there's no link from there. Is there a way to get there BEFORE you buy something from them?

Not in an intuitive way, I think, the supposed way is using the search bar probably; only indirectly for example, using such links: https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/crafter/2/view-profile
That is a link to my profile, change the "2" to any other number and you get other authors. But this is of course not really suitable if you search for a specific author :)

smelton
July 20th, 2021, 16:21
Bugreport: Getting a Free item on pages after 1 will reset to page 1.

Repo:
1. Search for bmos
2. Go to page 2
3. Get an item from page 2

You will now be on page 1

This should be fixed now. Thanks for reporting.

ddavison
July 20th, 2021, 16:26
So this means that the source code of these extensions is no longer accessible then, right?

It depends on where the crafter chose to put it. Each crafter can choose to put stuff into Data or Vault. Data will put it into modules/extensions/rulesets, whereas the Vault will put it in the Vault and encrypt it.

SilentRuin
July 20th, 2021, 16:27
To that end, it would be useful as a purchaser to know ahead of time whether or not something you hoped to purchase is Vaulted or not, so that might be good info for FG to automatically add to the store page. Just as an example, I've been wanting to use a 2E extension similar to your token containers one for 5E. Been debating for a long time between writing my own or just buying yours and then modifying it as needed for 2E. It'd be a bummer to buy it only to find out afterwards it's vaulted and uneditable. (Note: Just using that as an example, I have this same thought process with a ton of other paid extensions by other authors too!)

I pretty much state up front in my code - even the paid DMsG stuff - that anyone can look at how I did stuff and do the same things if they need to (including cut/paste) - or just modify them. I tend to just make up stuff I want for me anyway and have no idea if anyone else has done things like it before. I find its actually an advantage not knowing what other people have done so your not 'boxed in' or 'limited' in what you think can be done.

For sure I learned all my coding of extensions from scanning 5e/coreRPG code and the death indicators code I inherited and manage for free. I have no problems with anyone else using anything I've done in the same way (paid or free) and never intend to ever "vault" anything for that reason.

ddavison
July 20th, 2021, 16:32
I'm pretty sure the fact the "vault" being the default selection when creating a deliverable is why any "free" stuff currently has it set (by mistake as dev was not aware what it actually did). As for intentionally setting it? No clue of the reasoning as extensions are usually things people modify as part of the reason for grabbing them. If the author doesn't want you to modify or see their deliverables though (intentionally chose vault) that is their choice as seller. This can be especially true when dealing with art or other proprietary stuff. Your choice as customer is to ask them to change it to "data" so the .ext/.mod is available to you - live with the authors choice - or don't get that product.

This is by design. Good security should start off less permissive. The crafter can edit it and make it open content, but you can't otherwise put the cat back into the bag if you messed up the other way. You can change it back to Vault, but meanwhile it is already out there for people who downloaded it when it was outside the vault. For that reason, the default option being Vault is best. It secures people's Intellectual Property until they specifically choose not to.

SilentRuin
July 20th, 2021, 16:38
This is by design. Good security should start off less permissive. The crafter can edit it and make it open content, but you can't otherwise put the cat back into the bag if you messed up the other way. You can change it back to Vault, but meanwhile it is already out there for people who downloaded it when it was outside the vault. For that reason, the default option being Vault is best. It secures people's Intellectual Property until they specifically choose not to.

I 100% agree. Somehow though crafters have to be made aware what it does. I had to ask - as I had no idea when I first put my free stuff out there and your tester told me they did not see anything in the extensions or modules delivery directories. Had to research it myself to find out why that was.

LordEntrails
July 20th, 2021, 17:10
Perhaps their should be a page of info when you go to sign up as a crafter that details the options and anything else (like tax info etc). I don't recall their being such when I signed up earlier.

HywelPhillips
July 20th, 2021, 17:10
First look is pretty good.

It's probably planned, but adding some "sort by" options (eg by date added, or date updated) would help navigate. Two items have been added since yesterday I believe (68 has gone up to 70 items) but I can't even figure out which they are. If it is like that with 70 items, it's going to be utterly impossible with 700.

Cheers, Hywel

yako2020
July 20th, 2021, 17:40
I'm just curious how I can put my extensions in Forge to keep those who use it up to date.

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 17:43
Another thing that seems like it could be useful is a discussion/comment thread for each forge item that you see when clicking on the item in The Forge, though I'm sure as a workaround most of us will just link to forum threads.

celestian
July 20th, 2021, 18:31
Another thing that seems like it could be useful is a discussion/comment thread for each forge item that you see when clicking on the item in The Forge, though I'm sure as a workaround most of us will just link to forum threads.

Thats what I did with the ones I added during testing (linked to forum post). Having a comment section would be useful I think and a way to search those comments... and notifications for the author for comments.

Having all the chatter in a single place w/o having to go make a post would be helpful. Also easier to "clean up" a extension if/when it's no longer necessary. And if you really wanted a forum presence you could link to the forge entry.

Moon Wizard
July 20th, 2021, 18:47
It's probably easier to have a forum link to the existing forum system for additional info and discussion; otherwise, developers have to spend time re-implementing a whole discussion system in the Forge instead of working on new stuff or fixing stuff.

Regards,
JPG

smelton
July 20th, 2021, 19:03
Tried to apply as a Crafter this morning but my application kept getting rejected as "invalid" until I clicked the "I want to sell things" checkbox and then gave it my Paypal and Tax ID.

Not sure if that's intentional, a bug, or just a really weird coincidence that my first 4-5 times submitting failed and just happened to work after checking that box and filling that extra info in. I plan to release all my stuff free so didn't expect I'd need to check that box.

This issue is fixed

celestian
July 20th, 2021, 19:11
It's probably easier to have a forum link to the existing forum system for additional info and discussion; otherwise, developers have to spend time re-implementing a whole discussion system in the Forge instead of working on new stuff or fixing stuff.

Regards,
JPG

If we're talking about existing items, perhaps. Definitely not new ones.

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 19:15
Good point about the search bar. I was thinking a link directly on the extension you're looking at that takes you to the Author's profile though. I don't have anything in my inventory right now so didn't know there was a link on there... I've just been looking at the page where you're trying to decide to buy, and there's no link from there. Is there a way to get there BEFORE you buy something from them?

one can now click the author names in the shop list :)

About the bug report stuff: I agree, the forum is already good for that in my opinion and does everything one needs; I linked my forum threads at the top of all forge items

Moon Wizard
July 20th, 2021, 19:21
I'm talking about from a development point of view. Since we don't have a discussion system in the Forge, it would have to be something implemented as a completely new subsystem; whereas we already have a forums that does exactly that.

JPG

LordEntrails
July 20th, 2021, 19:21
I'm just curious how I can put my extensions in Forge to keep those who use it up to date.
Apply to be a crafter. There is a link on the top right corner (I think, since I've already applied and been accepted I now have a different link). Fill out the forms there, note that you are effectively setting up a business and partnership with SmiteWorks. Then once approved you will have a Mange Craft link.

darrenan
July 20th, 2021, 19:25
NIT: The URL is forge.fantasygrounds.com but the title of the page is "Fantasy Grounds Workshop", but should probably be "Fantasy Grounds Forge" for consistency.

Also, I assume there will eventually be a Forge menu item in the top-level menu of the FG web site, but hasn't been added yet because this is still early-access?

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 19:51
Not sure if it's a bug or just a temporary blip during the approvement process, but an hour or two ago I submitted an extension and a module that were both pending approval.

Just checked back in and now when I click on those items in my Inventory, instead of the page where I was able to edit the descriptions and upload files, I just get "Item Not Found".

Here's a link to one of them: https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/79/view

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 19:54
Not sure if it's a bug or just a temporary blip during the approvement process, but an hour or two ago I submitted an extension and a module that were both pending approval.

Just checked back in and now when I click on those items in my Inventory, instead of the page where I was able to edit the descriptions and upload files, I just get "Item Not Found".

Here's a link to one of them: https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/79/view

When you click on that in the inventory, then you open its shop page. After the approval of a mod/ext/... it won't be automatically in the shop until you tell the forge so :) Since you probably did not yet do this, there is no shop page and therefore nothing found

Click instead on "Manage Craft" where you should be able to say what build is on the live or test server etc. :)

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 19:55
When you click on that in the inventory, then you open its shop page. After the approval of a mod/ext/... it won't be automatically in the shop until you tell the forge so :)

Click instead of "Manage Craft" where you should be able to say what build is on the live or test server etc. :)

I'm an idiot. Went to the wrong place when I came back to check on it. Thanks!

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 19:56
Went to the wrong place when I came back to check on it. Thanks!

You're welcome :)

Dudin
July 20th, 2021, 20:07
Is there a reason the forge is using a pseudo currency? Can you pay/add money in more exact amounts? For example, the one paid option present as of this moment is 600 gold AKA $6. As is, you can only spend $25 or two separate $5 gold purchases to get enough gold to buy it. Whatever excess gold you have is essentially money you didn't intend to spend on the store now.

darrenan
July 20th, 2021, 20:14
Any plan to have more readable product ids show up in the updater? Having just GUIDs in there makes it impossible to tell what was updated (granted, most of the time knowing what was updated isn't super important, but with existing store products you can at least make an inference based on the product id).

vaughnlannister
July 20th, 2021, 20:14
Yes so now we wait until we can spend the exact amount of gold on stuff we want before we buy :D

Speculi
July 20th, 2021, 20:16
Is there a reason the forge is using a pseudo currency? Can you pay/add money in more exact amounts? For example, the one paid option present as of this moment is 600 gold AKA $6. As is, you can only spend $25 or two separate $5 gold purchases to get enough gold to buy it. Whatever excess gold you have is essentially money you didn't intend to spend on the store now.

This becomes even more annoying when you look at prices like 599 tokens...

Primo
July 20th, 2021, 20:18
Nice!

I'd like to help crafters around: if you need help creating images to show your extension in a more visual way on The Forge, hit me up on Discord.

For SmiteWorks: are .gifs supported on The Forge product page carousel? I see it's an image-list but never hurts to ask.

Think we can make it look beautiful and really well explained to support our crafters :)

ddavison
July 20th, 2021, 20:45
Is there a reason the forge is using a pseudo currency? Can you pay/add money in more exact amounts? For example, the one paid option present as of this moment is 600 gold AKA $6. As is, you can only spend $25 or two separate $5 gold purchases to get enough gold to buy it. Whatever excess gold you have is essentially money you didn't intend to spend on the store now.

We use gold to allow for people to price things at prices less than or equal to our current minimum amounts. PayPal transaction fees plus percentages on a $1 transaction are really bad and we actually lose money on those for every purchase. For that reason we try not to price anything below $5.

ddavison
July 20th, 2021, 20:46
Thanks for all the suggestions. We have most of these in the queue for development and we are considering new requests as they come in.

WinterSoldier7
July 20th, 2021, 20:52
I had no idea this was being worked on, but it's exactly what I wanted to see. Great stuff - thanks!

Dudin
July 20th, 2021, 20:58
I am still not sure what happens after you buy a product that isn't a multiple of $5. It seems like customers will most likely be put in a scenario where they will always have some remaining balance of the "gold" currency that is essentially non-usable and non-refundable (especially if it is under $5). They will have to hope another product comes along that they want and is priced such that will use up whatever remaining currency they have.

BaneTBC
July 20th, 2021, 21:09
Having a way to check what is New is helpful, although I'm sure that would cause more overhead, since you'd have to keep track of each accounts last access, et al. A sort by date added would probably be really helpful.

lavoiejh
July 20th, 2021, 21:14
I am still not sure what happens after you buy a product that isn't a multiple of $5. It seems like customers will most likely be put in a scenario where they will always have some remaining balance of the "gold" currency that is essentially non-usable and non-refundable (especially if it is under $5). They will have to hope another product comes along that they want and is priced such that will use up whatever remaining currency they have.

Yes, this is very similar to many "In-App Purchase" or microtransaction service. You will likely have some "spare change" left over when you are done and it will just hang around until the next time you would like to make a purchase. Not ideal, but understandable for a small company like Smiteworks to not want to lose money on each transaction, and also to avoid passing those costs on to the consumer. Many much bigger ecosystems use it as well, like Destiny and League of Legends.

One potential suggestion to ease the (minor) burden on customers of having money tied up in the system would be for Smiteworks to allow us to use leftover currency in the Smiteworks store. So if I want to buy $12 worth of extensions, I pay $25, and have $13 left over. Then the next time I buy module or ruleset in the store, which is likely to be a larger purchase amount, they credit me the $13 back toward that sale. Not sure how the two transaction systems interact, so there could be complications but it seems reasonable from the outside.

edit: in addition to being more flexible in general, it would also reduce the impetus for customers to spam $5 purchases with high overhead to minimize "spare change", rather than using a larger transaction size and having larger amounts of currency left over.

Kelrugem
July 20th, 2021, 21:14
A sort by date added would probably be really helpful.

Right now it is actually sorted by date again; but in reversed order, so, you'd need to check the end of the shop for new stuff :) (date of creation of that forge item)

BaneTBC
July 20th, 2021, 21:14
@Dubin, their issue there as was stated is that if it is less then a $5 charge through Paypal (where all the money changes hands here), they are essentially losing money. This means, that if someone wants to offer a product for $.50 or even $1.00, they wouldn't be able to do it while operating via Paypal. This means that if you wanted everything to be a nice round number, the lowest an extension\mod creator could charge would be $5. While a non-standard currency isn't ideal, it does allow for the creators to price their content as they feel justified.

Dudin
July 20th, 2021, 21:16
I agree it is a relatively minor issue over likely a hand full of dollars, but it would just feel bad when I make purchases and see left over balances. I avoid those micro-transaction based games for that reason lol.

I like the idea of store credit for module purchase. That seems like a good compromise, though I don't know how easy it would be for SW to implement :)

SilentRuin
July 20th, 2021, 21:34
What's the rule on selling in FG Forge and other places? I only see one thing for sale and it's also for sale in Roll20 marketplace. I know DMsG is draconian that something can ONLY be on their sale site - what is SW position on this?

bmos
July 20th, 2021, 21:49
I am still not sure what happens after you buy a product that isn't a multiple of $5. It seems like customers will most likely be put in a scenario where they will always have some remaining balance of the "gold" currency that is essentially non-usable and non-refundable (especially if it is under $5). They will have to hope another product comes along that they want and is priced such that will use up whatever remaining currency they have.Does the gold not follow gift card rules? A number of US states require gift card/store credit balance to be refunded if untouched for a certain amount of time.
But perhaps that is only for companies located in that state rather than customers in that state; I don't know.

darrenan
July 20th, 2021, 21:52
Getting my four extensions up into The Forge was super simple. Two thumbs up from this guy!

ddavison
July 20th, 2021, 22:05
I agree it is a relatively minor issue over likely a hand full of dollars, but it would just feel bad when I make purchases and see left over balances. I avoid those micro-transaction based games for that reason lol.

I like the idea of store credit for module purchase. That seems like a good compromise, though I don't know how easy it would be for SW to implement :)

That is understandable. We will have to see if we can come up with some sort of clever ways to address that.

We do have plans to add a donate button and patronage so you can support your favor Free Item crafters.

ddavison
July 20th, 2021, 22:15
What's the rule on selling in FG Forge and other places? I only see one thing for sale and it's also for sale in Roll20 marketplace. I know DMsG is draconian that something can ONLY be on their sale site - what is SW position on this?

The only exclusivity we have is the separate restriction that we don't allow people to sell stuff that builds upon our code or uses the "Fantasy Grounds" name anywhere other than in our storefront, DMsGuild, and in the FG Forge without a specific license allowing it. If you have something like a map pack, token pack, or adventure, you could sell a Roll20 version, a Fantasy Grounds version, Astral version, MapTools version, etc. You could even sell loose JPG images for a map pack on Patreon that you use within your Fantasy Grounds mod. That is perfectly fine. You just can't put the Fantasy Grounds mod behind your Patreon sub and/or brand it as a Fantasy Grounds mod.

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 23:06
My extension got approved and showed up in the store. I spotted a typo in the description and fixed it, but my item disappears from the store while pending approval for the description change.

Not a big deal, but it might be better for users if the old description at least still appears until the new one is approved, rather than getting the "Item Not Found" page.

Sterno
July 20th, 2021, 23:32
Sorry to keep spamming this thread, but another thing I thought of is that we could all probably use some guidance on what the different Product Type categories are.

What's the difference between a "Free Supplement" and an "Accessory" that happens to be free? If I've got an extension that modifies some combat code, is that "Core Rules"? "Free Supplement"? "Accessory"?

Kelrugem
July 21st, 2021, 00:47
That is understandable. We will have to see if we can come up with some sort of clever ways to address that.

We do have plans to add a donate button and patronage so you can support your favor Free Item crafters.

Is it not possible to make it possible that one buys a custom amount of gold, but at least 500 then to adress the issue with the cost due to Paypal? that would not completely solve the issue with leftovers, but at least lift it a bit :)

ddavison
July 21st, 2021, 00:54
Is it not possible to make it possible that one buys a custom amount of gold, but at least 500 then to adress the issue with the cost due to Paypal? that would not completely solve the issue with leftovers, but at least lift it a bit :)

That might be a solution. It just complicates a few things on the front-end. Doable, but just needs more consideration.

mattekure
July 21st, 2021, 01:52
There is no good solution for that. Customers will be able to contact the crafter with a private message and show proof of ownership somehow. The crafter will then be able to gift a copy to another user. The gift option is not built yet.

Until DMsGuild actually removes items, you can keep updating it there for customers and they can manually install updates. I donít know how much longer those will remain viable. That is outside our control and is up to Wizards of the Coast and DMsGuild.

If your content uses Wizards of the Coastsí intellectual property, then it canít be posted to the FG Forge at all.

I really hope a better solution can be worked out. Manually gifting copies would be a massive undertaking for some DMsGuild extension authors. While I would certainly try to do it for my customers, that would be over 7000 purchases I would need to manually handle.

ddavison
July 21st, 2021, 02:09
I really hope a better solution can be worked out. Manually gifting copies would be a massive undertaking for some DMsGuild extension authors. While I would certainly try to do it for my customers, that would be over 7000 purchases I would need to manually handle.

DMsGuild told us that they can't share customer emails with us for purchases due to privacy issues. I don't see any other way to manually link those things. The sync setup we already have with DTRPG for official Fantasy Grounds stuff already sends email addresses to us as part of the product registration. This might be different to them because Fantasy Grounds isn't technically the vendor or seller in this case.

Either way, doing anything manually 7000 times is not really feasible.

mattekure
July 21st, 2021, 02:34
DMsGuild told us that they can't share customer emails with us for purchases due to privacy issues. I don't see any other way to manually link those things. The sync setup we already have with DTRPG for official Fantasy Grounds stuff already sends email addresses to us as part of the product registration. This might be different to them because Fantasy Grounds isn't technically the vendor or seller in this case.

Either way, doing anything manually 7000 times is not really feasible.

Yeah, thats my worry. I wonder if DMsGuild would give us a list of purchasers if we requested since we are the seller. If so we could coordinate where possible to do a matchup.

kevininrussia
July 21st, 2021, 04:15
Will end users be able to edit the purchased extension or modules? I ask because a lot of extensions I bought are for 5e that I modify to work with 4e. Would be sad if I lose this ability.

lavoiejh
July 21st, 2021, 04:19
Will end users be able to edit the purchased extension or modules? I ask because a lot of extensions I bought are for 5e that I modify to work with 4e. Would be sad if I lose this ability.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, that is up to the individual creators.

TopHatG
July 21st, 2021, 04:19
Will end users be able to edit the purchased extension or modules? I ask because a lot of extensions I bought are for 5e that I modify to work with 4e. Would be sad if I lose this ability.

This is what I also do for other systems. Heaps for 5e that you can tinker with to work in the rule set you want.

I understand and agree that some people don't want to share their code. It would be nice (especially for buying) if there was a field in the description so you know in advance if it's going into the extension folder where you can modify it, or into the vault where it's lock.

mattekure
July 21st, 2021, 04:20
Will end users be able to edit the purchased extension or modules? I ask because a lot of extensions I bought are for 5e that I modify to work with 4e. Would be sad if I lose this ability.

It depends entirely on the author. By default all items are placed in the vault, so they would not be editable, but each author can instead elect to have it installed in the data folders (module/extension) instead. All of mine will be posted in the data section so they will be able to be opened and edited. but each author has to make that choice themself

kevininrussia
July 21st, 2021, 04:30
It would be nice (especially for buying) if there was a field in the description so you know in advance if it's going into the extension folder where you can modify it, or into the vault where it's lock.

Yes, some notice on the extension page if the extension is locked in vault or open in folder is needed.

Zygmunt Molotch
July 21st, 2021, 06:07
Yes, some notice on the extension page if the extension is locked in vault or open in folder is needed.

yep, then we could know not to buy those ones!

similarly
July 21st, 2021, 08:27
DMsGuild told us that they can't share customer emails with us for purchases due to privacy issues. I don't see any other way to manually link those things. The sync setup we already have with DTRPG for official Fantasy Grounds stuff already sends email addresses to us as part of the product registration. This might be different to them because Fantasy Grounds isn't technically the vendor or seller in this case.

Either way, doing anything manually 7000 times is not really feasible.

Perhaps they can have a customer waiver or consent form for sharing information. That might ease the burden considerably.

readymeal
July 21st, 2021, 09:52
Yeah, thats my worry. I wonder if DMsGuild would give us a list of purchasers if we requested since we are the seller. If so we could coordinate where possible to do a matchup.

I don t know the agreement between SW and DMguild but i don t think DMguild is gonna make things easier for SW to take some of their customers away...DM guilds take a 50% cut i believe, SW only 40%...

Kelrugem
July 21st, 2021, 13:48
I don t know the agreement between SW and DMguild but i don t think DMguild is gonna make things easier for SW to take some of their customers away...DM guilds take a 50% cut i believe, SW only 40%...

The thing is that many/most of the extensions on DMsguild are actually not allowed to be on DMsguild, there was some discussion about that in December/January (?) when DMsguild has temporarily put down several extensions. This is the main reason why the forge then started to get developed :) And as far as I understood, DMsguild (and WotC?) agreed on waiting for the forge until they force their rules about extensions again, such that these extensions cannot be sold on DMsguild anymore. So, DMsguild and the forge are actually for different type of products, for modules with IP (DnD) and community stuff like extensions/modules without IP, respectively. Thus, strictly spoken there is no infringement of interest now, and since DMsguild actually already stopped selling these extensions I can understand if DM-developers want to know what to do now in case DMsguild stops selling extensions again :)

readymeal
July 21st, 2021, 15:03
The thing is that many/most of the extensions on DMsguild are actually not allowed to be on DMsguild, there was some discussion about that in December/January (?) when DMsguild has temporarily put down several extensions. This is the main reason why the forge then started to get developed :) And as far as I understood, DMsguild (and WotC?) agreed on waiting for the forge until they force their rules about extensions again, such that these extensions cannot be sold on DMsguild anymore. So, DMsguild and the forge are actually for different type of products, for modules with IP (DnD) and community stuff like extensions/modules without IP, respectively. Thus, strictly spoken there is no infringement of interest now, and since DMsguild actually already stopped selling these extensions I can understand if DM-developers want to know what to do now in case DMsguild stops selling extensions again :)


It s a great theory but then who is going to check that a FG conversion of a PDF adventure on DMguild only use IP stuff (from the PHB or DM guides for example) and another one in the FG Forge is only using content from the SRD?

Or are we just talking about FG extensions making changes/improvement to rulesets only (from the Rob2E crew for example)?


Just food for thought as i don t deal with stuff on DMguilds nor can i write any extension...just trying to give some users another perspective that things might not be that clear cut at the moment.

Kelrugem
July 21st, 2021, 15:06
Or are we just talking about FG extensions making changes/improvement to rulesets only (from the Rob2E crew for example)?

Yeah, I was just speaking about extensions :) Modules without IP are free to choose where they get published, I think?

ddavison
July 21st, 2021, 15:49
Rob2e had a great idea that I passed along to our contact at DMsGuild. They agreed and this is what they are going to do.

He suggested that as long as DMsGuild content creators can continue to update content on DMsGuild for past customers, then those customers can continue to receive their updates there. DMsGuild will just mark the delisted extensions as Private so that they are no longer sold on DMsGuild. This means that those 30 or so items would need to be maintained in two places going forward, but you don't have to manually verify and send out thousands of free copies through the FG Forge, and DMsGuild doesn't have to violate their privacy policies for customers by sharing email addresses with any third parties.

I only see one of the listed extensions that I think we won't be able to host and that is a theme that uses D&D IP for the Demogorgon. We will have to moderate and approve everything on a case-by-case basis.

If your product references Dungeons & Dragons IP, then it must only be loaded to DMsGuild. The license and contract agreement on DMsGuild allows for the use of the D&D IP beyond the SRD content. If your content references IP that you own or have rights to, then you should list those rights in your product description so they can be approved for the FG Forge.

On a related note, we will be providing additional guidance on what sort of linkage to other products is allowed in FG Forge items. For instance, we are discussing whether or not we will allow people to write adventures or content that rely upon and link to content from the FG Art Pack Subscription. This will need to be communicated within the FG Forge item description and we may develop a more sophisticated solution to this as we go. More information will be coming in the coming week or two on this subject.

Zacchaeus
July 21st, 2021, 16:16
Rob2e had a great idea that I passed along to our contact at DMsGuild. They agreed and this is what they are going to do.

I knew Rob2e would be useful for something someday :)

SilentRuin
July 21st, 2021, 16:22
Rob2e had a great idea that I passed along to our contact at DMsGuild. They agreed and this is what they are going to do.

He suggested that as long as DMsGuild content creators can continue to update content on DMsGuild for past customers, then those customers can continue to receive their updates there. DMsGuild will just mark the delisted extensions as Private so that they are no longer sold on DMsGuild. This means that those 30 or so items would need to be maintained in two places going forward, but you don't have to manually verify and send out thousands of free copies through the FG Forge, and DMsGuild doesn't have to violate their privacy policies for customers by sharing email addresses with any third parties.

I only see one of the listed extensions that I think we won't be able to host and that is a theme that uses D&D IP for the Demogorgon. We will have to moderate and approve everything on a case-by-case basis.

If your product references Dungeons & Dragons IP, then it must only be loaded to DMsGuild. The license and contract agreement on DMsGuild allows for the use of the D&D IP beyond the SRD content. If your content references IP that you own or have rights to, then you should list those rights in your product description so they can be approved for the FG Forge.

On a related note, we will be providing additional guidance on what sort of linkage to other products is allowed in FG Forge items. For instance, we are discussing whether or not we will allow people to write adventures or content that rely upon and link to content from the FG Art Pack Subscription. This will need to be communicated within the FG Forge item description and we may develop a more sophisticated solution to this as we go. More information will be coming in the coming week or two on this subject.

Pretty much what I told you in this thread last year when I notified you that the extension they dropped "Combat Groups" could still be updated. The letter that started it all. We discussed it when you stated forge would be coming up. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?64106-Just-got-a-mail-from-DMsG-telling-me-they-are-pulling-all-extensions-for-sale-out)

Which as I stated is only something I'd do after they kick out my extensions. Until then, I'll stay put. And this does not solve the issue where past owners will be able to hook into automatic updates.

ddavison
July 21st, 2021, 16:32
Pretty much what I told you in this thread last year when I notified you that the extension they dropped "Combat Groups" could still be updated. The letter that started it all. We discussed it when you stated forge would be coming up. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?64106-Just-got-a-mail-from-DMsG-telling-me-they-are-pulling-all-extensions-for-sale-out)

There are probably lots of great ideas and solutions people have given me in the past and I've probably forgotten most of them. Occasionally, something causes it to bubble back up in my brain or I see it again and it registers better for me. It's probably because I'm getting old. No offense is intended if you had and expressed that idea to me previously. Well done for thinking of it earlier and sorry for not mentioning that.

SilentRuin
July 21st, 2021, 16:34
There are probably lots of great ideas and solutions people have given me in the past and I've probably forgotten most of them. Occasionally, something causes it to bubble back up in my brain or I see it again and it registers better for me. It's probably because I'm getting old. No offense is intended if you had and expressed that idea to me previously. Well done for thinking of it earlier and sorry for not mentioning that.

None was taken at all - I was posting more that it was not a total solution. Which I post edited - because I too am old and forgot to add "the point I was trying to make" after I went to the trouble of cross linking the post that first notified the DMsG letter containing this new WOTC directive.

Sterno
July 21st, 2021, 16:39
There's an issue on the Store listing page where Titles and Short Descriptions that contain ampersands, quotation marks, and probably any other special characters that require HTML encoding aren't showing up correctly. They DO show up correctly on when you click on the link for the actual store item, but not when viewing the list.

Take, for instance, this item: https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/17/view. The text appears correct if you follow that link, but if you find that item in amongst the others when browsing the store, instead the description will look like this:

"DSA 4 ("Das Schwarze Auge" in English known as "The Dark Eye") is a roleplay system from Germany owned by Ulissess Spiele GmbH."

I think it also comes back at you garbled when you go to edit your item's title/description and you'd previously used it. For instance, when originally entering one of my items, I had "AD&D" in there but after seeing it get garbled, I went to edit it to just be "2E" and saw that it was garbled on the edit page too.

Filed this is a bug on the link in the OP in this thread, but got a back a response to just post the bug here, so here it is!

lavoiejh
July 21st, 2021, 16:49
CoreRPG extensions work in any system based on it correct? So would it make more sense to have the "5e Compatible" filter also include the Core extensions (and likewise for other similar rulesets)?

darrenan
July 21st, 2021, 17:02
Could we get the Prev/Pages/Next control at both the top and bottom of item listings in the Forge?

smelton
July 21st, 2021, 17:11
There's an issue on the Store listing page where Titles and Short Descriptions that contain ampersands, quotation marks, and probably any other special characters that require HTML encoding aren't showing up correctly. They DO show up correctly on when you click on the link for the actual store item, but not when viewing the list.

Take, for instance, this item: https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/17/view. The text appears correct if you follow that link, but if you find that item in amongst the others when browsing the store, instead the description will look like this:

"DSA 4 ("Das Schwarze Auge" in English known as "The Dark Eye") is a roleplay system from Germany owned by Ulissess Spiele GmbH."

I think it also comes back at you garbled when you go to edit your item's title/description and you'd previously used it. For instance, when originally entering one of my items, I had "AD&D" in there but after seeing it get garbled, I went to edit it to just be "2E" and saw that it was garbled on the edit page too.

Filed this is a bug on the link in the OP in this thread, but got a back a response to just post the bug here, so here it is!

The Title and Short Description fields are plain text fields. If you input & then & is what is displayed... if you enter & then & is displayed. When you click the link to view an item, you see the Long Description which is an HTML capable field.

Sterno
July 21st, 2021, 17:38
The Title and Short Description fields are plain text fields. If you input & then & is what is displayed... if you enter & then & is displayed. When you click the link to view an item, you see the Long Description which is an HTML capable field.

I know you are supposed to enter them as plain text, but what you type is NOT what's currently being displayed for those. What I'm saying is that some of the Forge pages don't display them back to you correctly. The individual product pages do (where I guess it only uses long description... when I first wrote this up I mistakenly though it was showing short description there too). The store listing page and the "edit" page (when it's loading text you had already entered) don't.

Just browse the store and you can see what I'm talking about. Go to https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/ and type "schwarze" in the search box to see what I'm talking about. I doubt he entered it that way on his end. I know when I entered mine as "AD&D" I didn't try to encode it myself. I just entered it as text, but it came out garbled on the store page (leading me to just change mine to say '2E'). Audio Overseer has the same problem and I'm doubting Celestian went and typed ""collections" " in his short description

bmos
July 21st, 2021, 17:53
I know you are supposed to enter them as plain text, but what you type is NOT what's currently being displayed for those. What I'm saying is that some of the Forge pages don't display them back to you correctly. The individual product pages do (where I guess it only uses long description... when I first wrote this up I mistakenly though it was showing short description there too). The store listing page and the "edit" page (when it's loading text you had already entered) don't.

Just browse the store and you can see what I'm talking about. Go to https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/ and type "schwarze" in the search box to see what I'm talking about. I doubt he entered it that way on his end. I know when I entered mine as "AD&D" I didn't try to encode it myself. I just entered it as text, but it came out garbled on the store page (leading me to just change mine to say '2E'). Audio Overseer has the same problem and I'm doubting Celestian went and typed ""collections" " in his short description

Either this has been fixed or it isn't an issue in all cases. I don't see this issue on the AudioOverseer page in Firefox, for instance.

smelton
July 21st, 2021, 17:57
I think the issue is with editing an existing item. The text is encoded in the form. That's something I can fix on my end.

lavoiejh
July 21st, 2021, 17:58
I know you are supposed to enter them as plain text, but what you type is NOT what's currently being displayed for those. What I'm saying is that some of the Forge pages don't display them back to you correctly. The individual product pages do (where I guess it only uses long description... when I first wrote this up I mistakenly though it was showing short description there too). The store listing page and the "edit" page (when it's loading text you had already entered) don't.

Just browse the store and you can see what I'm talking about. Go to https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/ and type "schwarze" in the search box to see what I'm talking about. I doubt he entered it that way on his end. I know when I entered mine as "AD&D" I didn't try to encode it myself. I just entered it as text, but it came out garbled on the store page (leading me to just change mine to say '2E'). Audio Overseer has the same problem and I'm doubting Celestian went and typed ""collections" " in his short description

I see this on Chrome and Edge.

vaughnlannister
July 21st, 2021, 18:02
We use gold to allow for people to price things at prices less than or equal to our current minimum amounts. PayPal transaction fees plus percentages on a $1 transaction are really bad and we actually lose money on those for every purchase. For that reason we try not to price anything below $5.

Then the coins are a good solution to minimise transactions and remove smaller transactions. Though flexibility would on this part would be appreciated, perhaps allowing to add a custom amounts of coins, if the added amount is at least above 5$? In addition it would be great if the coins could also be used to reduce cost on items in the Fantasy Grounds store, that way there would be a less chance of storing coins that we would never spend. I like the idea of donating to authors as well, especially those who offer their extension for free to the community.

Sterno
July 21st, 2021, 18:19
Either this has been fixed or it isn't an issue in all cases. I don't see this issue on the AudioOverseer page in Firefox, for instance.

It's not on the actual AudioOverseer page... it's on the list item for it when you're looking at the list of everything in the Store.

https://i.imgur.com/axUw6NI.png

From Smelton's comment is seems like it maybe only affected authors who had problematic characters (amperands, quotes) and then made an edit to their item description and didn't notice that the edit form had encrypted it on them before they resubmitted.

Also, has anyone already mentioned the bug where the incorrect number of subscribers is being shown on the store listing page (as seen above)?

bmos
July 21st, 2021, 18:30
has anyone already mentioned the bug where the incorrect number of subscribers is being shown on the store listing page (as seen above)?yes, I think Kel has this issue with the leather theme (since I saw a screenshot from him showing 5 subscribers to that item yesterday).

SilentRuin
July 21st, 2021, 19:08
Is there an option to not allow people to donate to my free stuff? One was made by request from someone and as an example for simple things that should never be charged for - and the other was an inherited project I modified for my own ends with permission of author(s) who had an unworkable old version I wanted to implement in FGU.

I would not want to be "paid" or "donated" for either of those so would like an option in my created deliverable to turn off that ability.

vaughnlannister
July 21st, 2021, 19:45
Is there an option to not allow people to donate to my free stuff? One was made by request from someone and as an example for simple things that should never be charged for - and the other was an inherited project I modified for my own ends with permission of author(s) who had an unworkable old version I wanted to implement in FGU.

I would not want to be "paid" or "donated" for either of those so would like an option in my created deliverable to turn off that ability.

Donation are not possible at the moment, but was something they are still considering about, to maybe add in the future.

rob2e
July 21st, 2021, 19:55
Rob2e had a great idea that I passed along to our contact at DMsGuild. They agreed and this is what they are going to do.

He suggested that as long as DMsGuild content creators can continue to update content on DMsGuild for past customers, then those customers can continue to receive their updates there. DMsGuild will just mark the delisted extensions as Private so that they are no longer sold on DMsGuild. This means that those 30 or so items would need to be maintained in two places going forward, but you don't have to manually verify and send out thousands of free copies through the FG Forge, and DMsGuild doesn't have to violate their privacy policies for customers by sharing email addresses with any third parties.

I only see one of the listed extensions that I think we won't be able to host and that is a theme that uses D&D IP for the Demogorgon. We will have to moderate and approve everything on a case-by-case basis.

If your product references Dungeons & Dragons IP, then it must only be loaded to DMsGuild. The license and contract agreement on DMsGuild allows for the use of the D&D IP beyond the SRD content. If your content references IP that you own or have rights to, then you should list those rights in your product description so they can be approved for the FG Forge.

On a related note, we will be providing additional guidance on what sort of linkage to other products is allowed in FG Forge items. For instance, we are discussing whether or not we will allow people to write adventures or content that rely upon and link to content from the FG Art Pack Subscription. This will need to be communicated within the FG Forge item description and we may develop a more sophisticated solution to this as we go. More information will be coming in the coming week or two on this subject.

I have one good idea a year.

HywelPhillips
July 21st, 2021, 19:59
I understand the necessity to set a floor price for transactions, so the coins are a decent microtransaction method. I'd really appreciate the ability to buy a custom amount of coins so long as it clears the minimum too, especially if people are going to price in not-round-number amounts of coins.

I may be highly atypical in this but for the extensions that I bought on DMSGuild which I use for every game I run, I'd cheerfully pay for them a second time to get the via the Forge.

Automatic updates would be worth it for me, and most of these extensions were so cheap and are so useful that I don't begrudge the authors a second payment in the least. I know others mileage may vary. Personally I'd be happy to pay again for convenience, supporting the authors and avoiding them having to manually sort through thousands of purchases.

Cheers, Hywel

celestian
July 21st, 2021, 20:27
How are multiple items on a forge entry suppose to work?

I've an extension that comes with a module. I've placed both into the forge entry but not sure it's sending both. I can't tell what is what in the "vault" because it's a uuid # and not an actual name.

SilentRuin
July 21st, 2021, 20:57
How are multiple items on a forge entry suppose to work?

I've an extension that comes with a module. I've placed both into the forge entry but not sure it's sending both. I can't tell what is what in the "vault" because it's a uuid # and not an actual name.

Basically, you can't think of the Forge working at all like the FG forum file attachments or DMsG. When you make a new "version" of your delivery - you are essentially recreating it from scratch. You have to drop in every single file you plan to make in the delivery again as its not an "update" its a completely new version with no relation to the old one in terms what was there or not. Your essentially replacing it all every time you create a new version. And if you choose "vault" as your delivery mechanism you will NEVER see anything about that delivery (its encrypted in the vault). If you choose "Data" then you will see the .ext/.mod files delivered in the normal delivery directories and be accessible.

Trenloe
July 21st, 2021, 21:11
I can't tell what is what in the "vault" because it's a uuid # and not an actual name.
You can change the downloaded file's extension to .zip and some ZIP managers will allow you to open it and see the file structure (but not open any files within).

For example, using WinZip Pro on your Audio Overseer product:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48341

celestian
July 21st, 2021, 21:11
Basically, you can't think of the Forge working at all like the FG forum file attachments or DMsG. When you make a new "version" of your delivery - you are essentially recreating it from scratch. You have to drop in every single file you plan to make in the delivery again as its not an "update" its a completely new version with no relation to the old one in terms what was there or not. Your essentially replacing it all every time you create a new version. And if you choose "vault" as your delivery mechanism you will NEVER see anything about that delivery (its encrypted in the vault). If you choose "Data" then you will see the .ext/.mod files delivered in the normal delivery directories and be accessible.

Both files are in the build. I just can't tell if its there or not. I can't setup a clean system to tell. I'm asking really, how it's suppose to work so I can assume it does.

celestian
July 21st, 2021, 21:13
You can change the downloaded file's extension to .zip and some ZIP managers will allow you to open it and see the file structure (but not open any files within).

For example, using WinZip Pro on your Audio Overseer product:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48341

Thanks for that. Explains a lot... also makes me wonder what the purpose of "vault" is? Doesn't seem to be encrypted if you can unzip it like that. I assumed anything in "vault" would be "locked" in some fashion.

Trenloe
July 21st, 2021, 21:15
Thanks for that. Explains a lot... also makes me wonder what the purpose of "vault" is? Doesn't seem to be encrypted if you can unzip it like that. I assumed anything in "vault" would be "locked" in some fashion.
It's just the file structure that isn't encrypted. The data is encrypted - notice the lock icons next to the files.

ddavison
July 21st, 2021, 21:16
Thanks for that. Explains a lot... also makes me wonder what the purpose of "vault" is? Doesn't seem to be encrypted if you can unzip it like that. I assumed anything in "vault" would be "locked" in some fashion.

You can actually extract anything from the zip. Notice the little lock indicator next to each file. That means you would need to supply the encryption password for each to actually extract those files. So you can see the filenames and folder names, but you can see any of their contents or access any images.

celestian
July 21st, 2021, 21:16
It's just the file structure that isn't encrypted. The data is encrypted - notice the lock icons next to the files.

Did not catch that. I'll have to poke around when I get home. Again thanks, this answered my question.

darrenan
July 21st, 2021, 22:59
Was there some hold up on approvals going on in the background? I submitted 4 extensions yesterday and still only see one of them available. What's the normal process supposed to be for tracking the approval process?

Moon Wizard
July 21st, 2021, 23:30
Currently, the approval process is manual as we get started on the soft launch phase. We want to make sure everything is working technically, as well as verify our processes and workflows. We're planning to add tools in coming weeks to help streamline approvals internally, but we wanted to get the product out there and starting to be used.

JPG

ddavison
July 22nd, 2021, 00:22
Was there some hold up on approvals going on in the background? I submitted 4 extensions yesterday and still only see one of them available. What's the normal process supposed to be for tracking the approval process?

There are no outstanding approvals. Other than overnight, everything was approved or rejected within a few minutes to an hour after submission.

Sterno
July 22nd, 2021, 00:24
Just a note to everyone that once itís approved, you still have to go in and set it to be distributed on Live (or maybe Test instead) before it shows up in the store. Approval isnít the final step.

Or at least that seemed to be the case for me

ddavison
July 22nd, 2021, 02:05
Subscriber numbers should now reflect actual subscriber counts.

mordkhaan
July 22nd, 2021, 03:16
If you select something on the forge and then subsequently decide you no longer want to use it, can you tell the forge so it doesnt keep checking and updating it?
And also then have it gone from the list of choices on campaign load

Moon Wizard
July 22nd, 2021, 03:41
I believe that this is already available by toggling the Active status of your subscription in the Forge site. I’m away from my computer at the moment, so I can’t check.

Regards,
JPG

mordkhaan
July 22nd, 2021, 03:46
Thanks! Is action for Turn off Updates, presume that is what you mean?

darrenan
July 22nd, 2021, 04:02
There are no outstanding approvals. Other than overnight, everything was approved or rejected within a few minutes to an hour after submission.

Ok, so what is the troubleshooting procedure if something isn't showing up? I only see PF 2 Creature Parser when I search by my name, but there should also be Calendar Plus, Mirror Image Handler, and Constant Effect Apply.

I do see them in my inventory, but I don't see them when I search the Shop.

smelton
July 22nd, 2021, 04:14
Thanks! Is action for Turn off Updates, presume that is what you mean?

Yes. By clicking the Turn Off Updates button you remove the item from the update list and the next time you run the updater it will be removed.

smelton
July 22nd, 2021, 04:17
Have you uploaded a build and assigned it to a release channel?

Weissrolf
July 22nd, 2021, 10:48
How do I remove extensions from my inventory?

Zacchaeus
July 22nd, 2021, 11:10
How do I remove extensions from my inventory?

I don't think you do. Once you have subscribed to an extension you have it. You can check it soi it doesn't update.

Weissrolf
July 22nd, 2021, 11:22
Ok, good to know.

Ulric
July 22nd, 2021, 12:32
SW only sells Forge Coins in $5.00 increments, which are incompatible with how sellers are pricing their products. This causes artificial inflation of the price for paid content not priced in $5.00 increments. I purchase lots of content, and I have no problem paying for someone else's hard work. Forge Coins will hurt sales because a 599 token pack now costs $10.00, which is $4.10 more than necessary. SW gets to keep my $4.10 until I can find something for $4.10. If I could pay $5.99 like we can in the FG store, this would not be an issue. Instead, this method of pricing and selling will create a slush fund of unspent money loaned to SW at 0% interest by every user that purchases Forge content that wasn't sold in $5.00 increments.

Trenloe
July 22nd, 2021, 13:11
SW only sells Forge Coins in $5.00 increments, which are incompatible with how sellers are pricing their products. This causes artificial inflation of the price for paid content not priced in $5.00 increments. I purchase lots of content, and I have no problem paying for someone else's hard work. Forge Coins will hurt sales because a 599 token pack now costs $10.00, which is $4.10 more than necessary. SW gets to keep my $4.10 until I can find something for $4.10. If I could pay $5.99 like we can in the FG store, this would not be an issue. Instead, this method of pricing and selling will create a slush fund of unspent money loaned to SW at 0% interest by every user that purchases Forge content that wasn't sold in $5.00 increments.



Refer to 5E post from Doug earlier in this thread as to why they are doing this (i.e. they lose money on any transaction less than $5 due to processing fees etc.). Basically you have to buy at lease 500 gold for SmiteWorks not to lose money. Whereas allowing custom amounts above 500 would alleviate your example (getting something costing more than 500 gold), it won’t help keeping a 0 gold balance for anything that costs below 500 gold.

In theory the most gold you’ll ever have in your treasury is less than 500.

Ulric
July 22nd, 2021, 13:30
Refer to 5E post from Doug earlier in this thread as to why they are doing this (i.e. they lose money on any transaction less than $5 due to processing fees etc.). Basically you have to buy at lease 500 gold for SmiteWorks not to lose money. Whereas allowing custom amounts above 500 would alleviate your example (getting something costing more than 500 gold), it won’t help keeping a 0 gold balance for anything that costs below 500 gold.

In theory the most gold you’ll ever have in your treasury is less than 500.
I understand the economic theory and how processing fees work. I also understood that I would not have more than 499 unused coins. My problem was being forced to purchase more coins than price of the product. This business practice creates artificial inflation and will hurt sales. As time goes on SW will have a large amount of unspent customer coins to maintain and account for on their company balance sheet. I'm sure that extra unspent money will being earning interest in SW bank account.

Trenloe
July 22nd, 2021, 13:39
I understand the economic theory and how processing fees work. I also understood that I would not have more than 499 unused coins. My problem was being forced to purchase more coins than price of the product. This business practice creates artificial inflation and will hurt sales. As time goes on SW will have a large amount of unspent customer coins to maintain and account for on their company balance sheet. I'm sure that extra unspent money will being earning interest in SW bank account.
I’m sure SmiteWorks will make some refinements along the way. Ultimately they have to balance "hurting sales" vs. losing money on transactions and complexity of implementation. I don’t think you’ll ever get around some people not having a 0 gold balance. If you have an issue with SmiteWorks making something like 0.1% APR minus tax (based off the current federal funds interest rate) then I suggest you only use the Forge if you can get products that leave you with a 0 gold balance. Unfortunately that means you’ll miss out on some products if your goal is to keep that gold balance at 0.

Ulric
July 22nd, 2021, 14:26
I’m sure SmiteWorks will make some refinements along the way. Ultimately they have to balance "hurting sales" vs. losing money on transactions and complexity of implementation. I don’t think you’ll ever get around some people not having a 0 gold balance. If you have an issue with SmiteWorks making something like 0.1% APR minus tax (based off the current federal funds interest rate) then I suggest you only use the Forge if you can get products that leave you with a 0 gold balance. Unfortunately that means you’ll miss out on some products if your goal is to keep that gold balance at 0.
I have no problem with SW making as much profit as possible. In fact it’s in my best interest that SW makes money considering the amount of money I’ve spent in FG related products. Having to buy coins and in some cases more coins than needed kills the impulse buy. If I miss out on any products because of not wanting to buy unneeded coins then you’ve proved my point of fewer sales.

vaughnlannister
July 22nd, 2021, 14:29
We use gold to allow for people to price things at prices less than or equal to our current minimum amounts. PayPal transaction fees plus percentages on a $1 transaction are really bad and we actually lose money on those for every purchase. For that reason we try not to price anything below $5.

@Trenloe, correction they only loose money on 1$ transactions. And have opted to use 5$ to get a higher margin too not loose a lot on transaction fees.

bmos
July 22nd, 2021, 14:41
IMO the obvious solution would be to allow excess Forge credit to be used to discount Store purchases.

vaughnlannister
July 22nd, 2021, 14:52
Yes indeed and allowing custom amounts of coins to be bought above 5$, minimising the risk of having coins sit there that might never be used.

For instance there is a mod sold by someone that is 799 coins, which means I would have to buy 1000 coins for 10$, and 200 coins (2.01$) would just sit there.

ddavison
July 22nd, 2021, 15:09
Interest is so low that it not worth doing even for large amounts of money. We keep a balance on hand regularly for cash flow purposes and we would adjust this for outstanding treasury amounts. This is phase 1 of the Forge and we may come up with some other ideas, such as allowing you to specify amounts over $5. For now, don’t use the forge gold purchases if you feel uncomfortable with extra funds sitting in your treasury.

Trenloe
July 22nd, 2021, 15:13
@Trenloe, correction they only loose money on 1$ transactions. And have opted to use 5$ to get a higher margin too not loose a lot on transaction fees.
I've been told in the past that SmiteWorks lose money on any transaction under $5. Either way, the upshot is that it's not worth them doing transactions less than $5.

damned
July 22nd, 2021, 15:18
Instead, this method of pricing and selling will create a slush fund of unspent money loaned to SW at 0% interest by every user that purchases Forge content that wasn't sold in $5.00 increments.




Who gets interest on money in the bank these days?

JonStormbringer
July 22nd, 2021, 15:36
Any chance we can get a link to The Forge in the site's main navigation? Maybe under the store category?

bmos
July 22nd, 2021, 15:42
Any chance we can get a link to The Forge in the site's main navigation? Maybe under the store category?

Full public launch is next week. I'm sure they'll add a link then.

celestian
July 22nd, 2021, 15:53
You can change the downloaded file's extension to .zip and some ZIP managers will allow you to open it and see the file structure (but not open any files within).

For example, using WinZip Pro on your Audio Overseer product:



So, I did some checking when I got home and it turns out the module is there but the extension is not (using "VAULT" setting on forge) even tho both are in the "lastest" build I submitted.

Does it not function properly when there are 2 files in a build?

SilentRuin
July 22nd, 2021, 16:31
So, I did some checking when I got home and it turns out the module is there but the extension is not even tho both are in the "lastest" build I submitted.

Does it not function properly when there are 2 files in a build?

Mine (your old Death Indicators) has an .ext and .mod and works fine. I use "Data" not "Vault" if that helps. At one point early in the testing multiple files did not work but that was resolved.

Saagael
July 22nd, 2021, 16:34
At some point in the future it would be nice to see what files are actually included in the builds we upload. I've already run into an issue where I tried to upload 5 files for a build (4 mods and 1 ext) and the Forge got rid of all but one of the modules.

Ulric
July 22nd, 2021, 16:55
Interest is so low that it not worth doing even for large amounts of money. We keep a balance on hand regularly for cash flow purposes and we would adjust this for outstanding treasury amounts. This is phase 1 of the Forge and we may come up with some other ideas, such as allowing you to specify amounts over $5. For now, donít use the forge gold purchases if you feel uncomfortable with extra funds sitting in your treasury.
Doug, I never said how significant the interest would be. I also don't need to be reminded not to do things that make me uncomfortable. :) I am just giving you feedback on the Forge. I've already made a post expressing my happiness in regards to the Forge, but sometimes we also have to tell you what we feel is not so good.

Ulric
July 22nd, 2021, 16:55
Who gets interest on money in the bank these days?
A lot of my clients!

Trenloe
July 22nd, 2021, 17:14
I am just giving you feedback on the Forge. I've already made a post expressing my happiness in regards to the Forge, but sometimes we also have to tell you what we feel is not so good.
For me, my main gripe with your post was the implication that SmiteWorks were going to hang onto peoples money in some illicit way - your use of the word "slush fund" implied that. If that's what you actually meant, then I strongly disagree with your post and question your intent. If the connotations usually applied to "slush fund" was not your intention (based off its usual definition) , then your post can be viewed in a more positive light...

smelton
July 22nd, 2021, 17:32
So, I did some checking when I got home and it turns out the module is there but the extension is not (using "VAULT" setting on forge) even tho both are in the "lastest" build I submitted.

Does it not function properly when there are 2 files in a build?

If the install directory is Vault, both the module and extension are bundled into one Vault file. If the install directory is Data, then the files are installed into their respective Data directories.

celestian
July 22nd, 2021, 17:42
If the install directory is Vault, both the module and extension are bundled into one Vault file. If the install directory is Data, then the files are installed into their respective Data directories.

I dont see a extension folder (or extension for that matter) in the file that contains the module.

Feel free to subscribe to the AudioOverseer (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/94/view)extension and see what I mean.

Trenloe
July 22nd, 2021, 17:49
I dont see a extension folder (or extension for that matter) in the file that contains the module.

Feel free to subscribe to the AudioOverseer (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/94/view)extension and see what I mean.
Yep, I've just deleted the .dat vault file and done a new update and I still only see the module in the file.

Could you take a screenshot of the top section of your Manage Item screen - showing the Build Management section - all the way down to the "Item Description" title please.

celestian
July 22nd, 2021, 18:03
Yep, I've just deleted the .dat vault file and done a new update and I still only see the module in the file.

Could you take a screenshot of the top section of your Manage Item screen - showing the Build Management section - all the way down to the "Item Description" title please.

So while prepping to take a SS I noticed something. The submitted build wasn't set "live". I guess I need to learn to toggle "LIVE" after I've submitted a build and it's been approved? I expected it to set the latest live tho I can see why they might not.

I set the build to "LIVE" manually and forced a update on my test system and it is indeed contained in the file. I'll just need to be aware of this functionality ;)

Thanks!

smelton
July 22nd, 2021, 18:05
I subscribed, ran an update, and checked the vault file and I see a modules and extensions folder.

smelton
July 22nd, 2021, 18:07
Ah glad you figured it out. Yes, once a build is approved then you must select the release channel as the system doesn't know if you intended for the build to be a Test or Live release

Trenloe
July 22nd, 2021, 18:07
I expected it to set the latest live tho I can see why they might not.
I prefer it this way. I might want to load the most recent files into the test channel, for example, and wouldn't want them to be automatically sent to live.


I set the build to "LIVE" manually and forced a update on my test system and it is indeed contained in the file.
Great!

darrenan
July 22nd, 2021, 18:13
Have you uploaded a build and assigned it to a release channel?

That was the problem, they still had no channel selected. Could we perhaps add the channel as a column in the item list page, so that it's more obvious?

smelton
July 22nd, 2021, 19:27
The issue causing this html entities to be saved in the title/short description has been fixed. Any affected items descriptions just need to be saved again.

MrDDT
July 22nd, 2021, 19:29
Can we get some more filtering options?

Like date released. So we can sort by newer stuff only? As this gets longer and longer, its harder and harder to find stuff without going thru each page to see what is new.

Able to hide ones you already have "Owned" I don't really need to se "Owned" when I'm looking to buy new ones. If I want to see the owned ones I can go into my inventory. Or at the very least allow a sorting filter to filter those out.

Able to see which ones are "Data" vs "Vault" types. (Not a major issue, but I might avoid ones I can't fix/edit myself).

ju95
July 22nd, 2021, 19:36
Can we get some more filtering options?

Like date released. So we can sort by newer stuff only? As this gets longer and longer, its harder and harder to find stuff without going thru each page to see what is new.

Able to hide ones you already have "Owned" I don't really need to se "Owned" when I'm looking to buy new ones. If I want to see the owned ones I can go into my inventory. Or at the very least allow a sorting filter to filter those out.

Able to see which ones are "Data" vs "Vault" types. (Not a major issue, but I might avoid ones I can't fix/edit myself).

Hi MrDDT, currently if you sort by Item it will sort by creation time, first oldest to youngest, than youngest to oldest. As for the rest we are looking into it.

MrDDT
July 22nd, 2021, 20:00
Hi MrDDT, currently if you sort by Item it will sort by creation time, first oldest to youngest, than youngest to oldest. As for the rest we are looking into it.

Wow thanks, that helps a lot.

smelton
July 22nd, 2021, 20:29
We've discussed this internally and I've pushed back on the whole Data/Vault filter for a couple of reason, but primarily because a crafter can change the install location whenever they want .. that, I think, could lead to some unhappy people if they make purchasing decisions based on the install location and it changes.

SilentRuin
July 22nd, 2021, 20:34
We've discussed this internally and I've pushed back on the whole Data/Vault filter for a couple of reason, but primarily because a crafter can change the install location whenever they want .. that, I think, could lead to some unhappy people if they make purchasing decisions based on the install location and it changes.

I'd be very careful that you don't lock in "errors" that can never be fixed. If someone mistakenly picks vault and meant to do data then that should be allowed. The other way - sure I could see that being blocked going from data to vault. I can't really imagine anyone refusing to buy something because they can see it - but I can that they don't want to buy if they can't see it.

bayne7400
July 23rd, 2021, 03:00
Good Evening I have a bit of feedback. Even after your submission has been approved merely hitting the save button throws you back into " Your item is pending approval" and it removes it from the forge.

Is there any way to loosen the reigns a bit after your item has received initial approval while making inconsequential changes to your listing?

Moon Wizard
July 23rd, 2021, 03:44
If you change the details of the product (not just making builds), then products are currently being put back into approval queue. This is by design to prevent potential security issues without an approval step. We will be looking at enhancing the post-product-creation approval process in the future.

Regards,
JPG

bayne7400
July 23rd, 2021, 11:55
Yeah I wasn't sure if changing which build was live required hitting the save button. It sounds like hitting save is not required and I shouldn't hit it!

Evolivolution
July 23rd, 2021, 12:20
If you change the details of the product (not just making builds), then products are currently being put back into approval queue. This is by design to prevent potential security issues without an approval step. We will be looking at enhancing the post-product-creation approval process in the future.

Regards,
JPG

I think it would be cool to have products that enter the approval queue but have been approved before keep their last approved state on the store until the new one gets approved. So they don't just vanish when the author makes any small changes.

rathen45
July 23rd, 2021, 17:50
Is it possible for some developers to accommodate those who have valid DMSGUILD products by sending them coupons for the forge?

Trenloe
July 23rd, 2021, 17:57
Is it possible for some developers to accommodate those who have valid DMSGUILD products by sending them coupons for the forge?
Gifting will be available, but not yet. Some info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?69713-Announcing-the-FG-Forge&p=611858&viewfull=1#post611858

LordEntrails
July 23rd, 2021, 17:58
Is it possible for some developers to accommodate those who have valid DMSGUILD products by sending them coupons for the forge?
Creators do not get a list of who has bought their products on the DMsGuild, so they have no way of knowing who bought what. The DMsGuild will not give out the list to the creators or SmiteWorks because of privacy. Their is further discussion of this upthread including input from SmiteWorks after talking with OBS.

Nylanfs
July 23rd, 2021, 18:01
I still think that the Creator's not being able to get a list is some BS. I wonder if the ppl on regular DTRPG can get a list of their buyers. I'm gonna ask some ppl I know.

SilentRuin
July 23rd, 2021, 18:12
I still think that the Creator's not being able to get a list is some BS. I wonder if the ppl on regular DTRPG can get a list of their buyers. I'm gonna ask some ppl I know.

As I said privately in talks a month ago - and publicly here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?69713-Announcing-the-FG-Forge&p=611840&viewfull=1#post611840) early in this thread - there is no way to do this without the two companies interacting. "Creators" will not be able to solve this issue without a "non email" based validation link. And no way people who have stated they have 7K users are going to "gift" all that even if they had such a link. The only realistic solution would be one worked out between DMsG and SW - creators can't "solve" this realistically without automation of some kind.

Moon Wizard
July 23rd, 2021, 18:34
We have already been interacting with DTRPG, and our findings regarding this situation have already been stated in this thread by @ddavison.

Regards,
JPG

SilentRuin
July 23rd, 2021, 18:41
We have already been interacting with DTRPG, and our findings regarding this situation have already been stated in this thread by @ddavison.

Regards,
JPG

There is no solution to existing users in DMsG getting access to Forge version of the extensions. There is no mechanism in existence that will allow that. DMsG users will be updated on any changes if the creator keeps their private version updated - and Forge users will be only ones who get the update capability without DMsG user being "gifted" though there is no reliable way to know who the DMsG cusotomer was to gift. Only way to see who a buyer/purchaser is in message on your DMsG page and that has no ID to even use or transfer. No good solution in existence.

Just to be clear on what I read from that earlier statement SW made.

EOTB
July 23rd, 2021, 20:02
Can a forge creator account be set up for an organization, to make free material available? I ask as a new complete/expanded OSRIC mod is complete and in QA, as well as a beastiary (Monsters of Myth). If possible it would be better, I think, for the creator to show as "First Edition Society" rather than myself, as I happen to be the member of the FES engaged with fantasy grounds and doing most of the grunt work to adapt those into FG form - but it is still an effort on behalf of and authorized by the org, and the entirety of the works intended for a release on FG are compilations containing many members contributions (well over a dozen people contributed to Monsters of Myth, for example).

FES is the group of authors on Knights and Knaves behind the original release of OSRIC in 2006, including Stuart (Papers and Paychecks) who holds the trademark/copyright to OSRIC. The new OSRIC mod and Monsters of Myth were previously expected to be put simply on the forums, as most other free mods were, but the Forge is much more attractive as it would make distribution including updates much easier. The intent with a FES Forge account would be to make additional free OSRIC material available periodically, while individual members with their own separate for-profit publishing companies would set up normal Smiteworks store accounts for those for-profit products as desired.

We don't want to charge or receive donations for any of these however; our DTRPG account is free instead of PWYW for this reason. Getting 1099s is more hassle than its worth, and why the FES arm is a free PDF/print-at-cost publishing arm of K&KA intended for general promotion of first edition-style adventure gaming.

Moon Wizard
July 23rd, 2021, 20:14
We don’t currently provide any organization options within our system; as logins are tied to our forums system which drives everything by individual users. It may be something we would look at in the future; but the most common option I would think would be to set up an organization user account that is managed by the organization. (Along with attendant responsibility to keep account login information limited to need to know and allowed to publish people)

Regards,
JPG

EOTB
July 23rd, 2021, 20:22
So a FES forum registration? We can do that.

SilentRuin
July 23rd, 2021, 21:22
Showtime fellow extensioners on DMsG... the time is UPON US!!!!

From OneBookShelf(DMsG)....


Hello,
We reached out to you a while ago to let you know that specific titles of yours that are extensions for Fantasy Grounds would no longer be hosted on DMsGuild.
SmiteWorks has launched their Fantasy Grounds Forge platform, and we are working with them to allow those titles to be moved there.
In approximately one week, at the beginning of August, those products will be deactivated from sale on DMsGuild. Any customer who has previously purchased your product will still be able to access it through their Library on our site; SmiteWorks and we agree that the easiest solution for customers to continue to receive updates for those products would be for creators to continue to update their files on DMsGuild.
If you have not already done so, you can go to https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/ and register an account to upload your titles.
Note that only the Fantasy Grounds-related titles we reached out about previously are allowed to be moved to Fantasy Grounds Forge. All other titles published on DMsGuild should remain exclusively on DMsGuild.
Please let me know if you have any questions!

webdove
July 23rd, 2021, 22:27
I just got one of those.
"Hello,
You are receiving this email because you have purchased one or more titles that will soon be deactivated from sale on DMsGuild and moved to Fantasy Grounds Forge. This is simply a notification email: There is no action you need to take.
Going forward, the file creators will still be able to update these products, and you will still be able to access them through your Library on DMsGuild even though they will no longer be on sale for new purchases.
If you have any questions, you can contact us at [email protected]
Thank you and have a great day!
DMsGuild Team"

I went to the forge link. If I click on the "login" choice it sends me to the forums where I am already logged in. If I click on inventory in the forge I don't see any. The note above said "and moved to". Does this mean that the inventory page in the forge will eventually populate with my purchased mods and extensions?

rob2e
July 23rd, 2021, 22:35
I just got one of those.


EVERYONE did.

grimmlock
July 23rd, 2021, 22:49
I just got one of those.
"Hello,
You are receiving this email because you have purchased one or more titles that will soon be deactivated from sale on DMsGuild and moved to Fantasy Grounds Forge. This is simply a notification email: There is no action you need to take.
Going forward, the file creators will still be able to update these products, and you will still be able to access them through your Library on DMsGuild even though they will no longer be on sale for new purchases.
If you have any questions, you can contact us at [email protected]
Thank you and have a great day!
DMsGuild Team"

I went to the forge link. If I click on the "login" choice it sends me to the forums where I am already logged in. If I click on inventory in the forge I don't see any. The note above said "and moved to". Does this mean that the inventory page in the forge will eventually populate with my purchased mods and extensions?

Your DMsG purchases will not show up in Forge, the "moved to" is only meaning for future sales. The author is going to have to maintain any updates on both Forge and DMsG, and you will have to manually download from DMsG and then place them into your extensions folder when they are updated.

wndrngdru
July 23rd, 2021, 22:54
I haven't purchased many extensions via DMsG. Those that I have, though, have been useful enough that I'll probably be willing to double-down just for the convenience of The Forge's update capabilities.

webdove
July 23rd, 2021, 23:19
Would it be possible for authors to grant permission to migrate purchases to the forge? That might save them some maintenance time and it would be convenient for owners as well.

SilentRuin
July 24th, 2021, 00:18
Would it be possible for authors to grant permission to migrate purchases to the forge? That might save them some maintenance time and it would be convenient for owners as well.

No. Per previous reasons.

Evolivolution
July 24th, 2021, 05:15
Can a forge creator account be set up for an organization, to make free material available? I ask as a new complete/expanded OSRIC mod is complete and in QA, as well as a beastiary (Monsters of Myth). If possible it would be better, I think, for the creator to show as "First Edition Society" rather than myself, as I happen to be the member of the FES engaged with fantasy grounds and doing most of the grunt work to adapt those into FG form - but it is still an effort on behalf of and authorized by the org, and the entirety of the works intended for a release on FG are compilations containing many members contributions (well over a dozen people contributed to Monsters of Myth, for example).

With this in mind, I had an idea. You could expand the system that allows the owner of a project to add royalty recipients to also allow them to add management access for other crafters. Maybe with an added permission system to only allow access to specific parts, like uploading builds, changing build, editing description, etc.
This would not only allow easier access to community projects by multiple creators but also gives publishers who are working together with a FG developer the option to grant them permission to upload images and build but not edit them or the description. Effectively leaving the owner of the project in charge of the store appearance but allowing a creator to contribute.

Moon Wizard
July 24th, 2021, 07:11
Yes, that's something we have talked about internally; but it starts to get messy when people inevitably start to disagree on who owns the code, what splits they should each get, etc. We still might require a single "master" owner that controls splits and access, even if we do add something.

While we might do something long term around this; but for now it's one owner per project in the Forge.

Regards,
JPG

webdove
July 24th, 2021, 07:15
No. Per previous reasons.

My apologies to all for not reading through the earlier messages and asking stupid questions.

Kyler
July 24th, 2021, 12:21
This is Fantastic. Thanks to the Smite Works team!!

yako2020
July 24th, 2021, 12:45
I really liked this new feature and would like to know if in the future we will be able to "enable/disable" sets of rules|module and tokens|images.
I don't know, because I'm not an expert, but I believe that if you have the possibility of this "enable/disable" updates fluidity will be greater?

Kelrugem
July 24th, 2021, 14:54
I really liked this new feature and would like to know if in the future we will be able to "enable/disable" sets of rules|module and tokens|images.
I don't know, because I'm not an expert, but I believe that if you have the possibility of this "enable/disable" updates fluidity will be greater?

For each single item in the forge you can turn on/off the updates, or are you speaking about the FG shop?

yako2020
July 24th, 2021, 15:18
I'm referring to the FG Shop, if it worked the same way as FG Forge the updates would be focused on the person's best interest and at the same time new acquisitions could be made, I think that would streamline...but it's just a belief... .

mattekure
July 24th, 2021, 17:08
Suggestion

Currently extension authors have their threads spread across several forums. I suggest that a single forum section be created for forge items

Drogo210
July 24th, 2021, 17:17
A request for all extension authors. Please keep the same name of the extensions otherwise we get two of them.

SilentRuin
July 24th, 2021, 17:52
A request for all extension authors. Please keep the same name of the extensions otherwise we get two of them.

Are you talking for the free ones in the forums? Because if you own it in DMsG and plan to "double buy" it in Forge that would not really be possible. As DMsG usually renames stuff from what you actually deliver. As in - it will be different name in those cases (rare - I would not think many would double buy a product).

Kelrugem
July 24th, 2021, 18:11
A request for all extension authors. Please keep the same name of the extensions otherwise we get two of them.

Many authors, including me, agreed on to rename their extensions to fit a specific scheme :) (Like adding a prefix "Feature: [...]") I notified my users about that, though I did not rename the file itself such that the old one was overwritten :) So if you are speaking about that the name of the extension in the forge changed while the non-forge version had a different name, then it was probably because of the alignment to this prefix scheme :)

MrDDT
July 24th, 2021, 18:37
Many authors, including me, agreed on to rename their extensions to fit a specific scheme :) (Like adding a prefix "Feature: [...]") I notified my users about that, though I did not rename the file itself such that the old one was overwritten :) So if you are speaking about that the name of the extension in the forge changed while the non-forge version had a different name, then it was probably because of the alignment to this prefix scheme :)

Personally, I prefer the name to be exactly what the file name is (or as close to it as you can without breaking file naming rules).

It's a pain in the butt when you trying to find an ext, and the name is completely different than what its name is in the loading screen of the game.


@SmiteWorks Forge people.
I'm trying to sort my inventory in the forge shop by date, and it doesnt seem to be working.

Zacchaeus
July 24th, 2021, 19:02
But then again much easier to find all your extensions when they're all under the Feature section of the extensions dialog. Which is where they should be. All I asked some developers to do was prefix their extension name with 'Feature-' so that it complied with all of the official extensions that you'll find on the extension list.

Drogo210
July 24th, 2021, 19:06
Are you talking for the free ones in the forums? Because if you own it in DMsG and plan to "double buy" it in Forge that would not really be possible. As DMsG usually renames stuff from what you actually deliver. As in - it will be different name in those cases (rare - I would not think many would double buy a product).

I am talking generally, I had 2 extensions renamed 3 times within a week. I am fine with rename but find a scheme and try to keep it, please. Some are in vault and quite a mess to check :). The update for extension on DmGuild is manual so you can change it as much as you want :)


Many authors, including me, agreed on to rename their extensions to fit a specific scheme :) (Like adding a prefix "Feature: [...]") I notified my users about that, though I did not rename the file itself such that the old one was overwritten :) So if you are speaking about that the name of the extension in the forge changed while the non-forge version had a different name, then it was probably because of the alignment to this prefix scheme :)

Fine but some authors changed the name of an extension 3 times in a week... I hope was just a case :)

Kelrugem
July 24th, 2021, 20:53
I am talking generally, I had 2 extensions renamed 3 times within a week. I am fine with rename but find a scheme and try to keep it, please. Some are in vault and quite a mess to check :). The update for extension on DmGuild is manual so you can change it as much as you want :)



Fine but some authors changed the name of an extension 3 times in a week... I hope was just a case :)

Ah, oki, that is something different then probably; you may want to write that specific dev to avoid that happening :D (there is also a message button in the forge) It is unusual that extensions are renamed that regularly :)

Moon Wizard
July 24th, 2021, 23:56
If the file was installed by the Forge and later the file was renamed by the author, then the old one should be removed, and the new one should be installed. The FG Updater keeps track of which files that it installed, so that it can remove on uninstall without you losing any data you created or added.

If you had a file manually installed previously and the Forge installs a different file name, then we have no control over that since the previous file was manually installed under a different name.

Regards,
JPG

MrDDT
July 25th, 2021, 01:31
If the file was installed by the Forge and later the file was renamed by the author, then the old one should be removed, and the new one should be installed. The FG Updater keeps track of which files that it installed, so that it can remove on uninstall without you losing any data you created or added.

If you had a file manually installed previously and the Forge installs a different file name, then we have no control over that since the previous file was manually installed under a different name.

Regards,
JPG

Wow nice feature. Thanks Moon for the update.

MrDDT
July 25th, 2021, 01:33
@SmiteWorks Forge people.
I'm trying to sort my inventory in the forge shop by date, and it doesnt seem to be working.

So after further review, I noticed that none of the sorting options are working in the inventory on the forge.

TopHatG
July 26th, 2021, 03:00
Not sure if I post bugs to here or house of healing for forge, so apologies if this is in the incorrect place.

When I try and get FG Dev Tools - Properties Inspector (https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/shop/items/99/view) I receive the error 'Error: Failed to create subscription in patch system'

Thanks

Moon Wizard
July 26th, 2021, 04:03
In this thread is fine for now. We'll make another read-only announcement thread when we officially launch (just soft launch right now).

The support link is actually in the first post of this thread.

Regards,
JPG

Mike Serfass
July 26th, 2021, 06:15
The category is a drop down. Could this be changed to a check list?

There are extensions which cover, for example, 5e and Pathfinder, but not Savage Worlds. Those are under CoreRPG, but they don't work with SWADE, Traveller, etc. It makes sense that creators pick CoreRPG when it works with 4 D&D versions, but that makes a long list for non-D&D players to wade through. It also means players have to experiment to figure out that it doesn't work with their game system, even though it derives from CoreRPG. Some of the creators don't realize their extension doesn't really work with all CoreRPG games. How would they? A checklist means no assumptions on either side and a more accurate search filter.

I have an extension that works with both Savage Worlds Deluxe and SWADE. I could choose only one, and CoreRPG was out because it's for Savage Worlds only, so I created two entries with the same extension file. Ikael pointed out that may cause problems if the player picks both.

Great work on the Forge, btw. Thanks! Now that we have it, we'll probably wonder why we didn't have this years ago.

Zygmunt Molotch
July 26th, 2021, 09:27
I feel like if extensions aren't going to display whether they are vault or data, on their Forge page

It's a good idea to display on the client interface/initialisation... after all, there's a lot of wasted space on the client splash, something like 70% of the screen, when maximised

in fact, that maybe a better solution...

Surge
July 26th, 2021, 14:38
I must say, having a separate currency that you have to buy in order to pay for content leaves an extremely bad taste in my mouth. I am very surprised that it was considered at all, given Smiteworks' usual great consumer friendly approach to things. This is incredibly out of character.

Edit: I've just read Doug's reasoning (post #62 of the thread) and while I sympathise, I expect it won't remove the anti-consumer perceptions of such a practice.

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 14:43
I must say, having a separate currency that you have to buy in order to pay for content leaves an extremely bad taste in my mouth. I am very surprised that it was considered at all, given Smiteworks' usual great consumer friendly approach to things. This is incredibly out of character.
There’s a good reason for this. See here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?69713-Announcing-the-FG-Forge&p=612032&viewfull=1#post612032

ddavison
July 26th, 2021, 14:45
I must say, having a separate currency that you have to buy in order to pay for content leaves an extremely bad taste in my mouth. I am very surprised that it was considered at all, given Smiteworks' usual great consumer friendly approach to things. This is incredibly out of character.

Hello Surge, you can read about it earlier in the thread for the reasoning. The short summary is that PayPal transaction fees on micro transactions are very high and allowing those would prohibit us from being able to allow crafter to offer low priced product like you see in the Forge already.

Surge
July 26th, 2021, 14:53
Hello Surge, you can read about it earlier in the thread for the reasoning. The short summary is that PayPal transaction fees on micro transactions are very high and allowing those would prohibit us from being able to allow crafter to offer low priced product like you see in the Forge already.

In order to assuage the immediately negative reaction in what I expect will be everyone's first thought when discovering gold is required, maybe it's worth explaining this right on the Treasury page? At least then people can see you aren't trying to be anti-consumer, and there are reasons beyond your control?

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 15:03
In order to assuage the immediately negative reaction in what I expect will be everyone's first thought when discovering gold is required, maybe it's worth explaining this right on the Treasury page? At least then people can see you aren't trying to be anti-consumer, and there are reasons beyond your control?
I think you’re over estimating the negativity of everyone's first thoughts about this. Based off reactions in this thread where maybe 3 or 4 people that think of this a similar way you do, whereas the majority of people giving feedback in this thread don’t appear to have an "anti-consumer" opinion or negative reaction.

bmos
July 26th, 2021, 15:05
I mean, if we're counting opinions, I also have a negative opinion of that approach--but totally understand why it makes sense.
That being said, I wouldn't be buying those extensions anyway since I think extensions should be free/donation-based.

ddavison
July 26th, 2021, 15:08
I added a developer ticket to add this language to the Treasury screen:


Why Gold?

Gold allows SmiteWorks to offer low cost Forge items from crafters without experiencing excessive transaction fees that would otherwise make it prohibitive to offer items under $5. This allows crafters to create and price the products at whatever price they want, allows users to transfer gold from one another without incurring additional fees, and allows for future functionality around donations and patronage.

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 15:10
I added a developer ticket to add this language to the Treasury screen:


Why Gold?

Gold allows SmiteWorks to offer low cost Forge items from crafters without experiencing excessive transaction fees that would otherwise make it prohibitive to offer items under $5. This allows crafters to create and price the products at whatever price they want, allows users to transfer gold from one another without incurring additional fees, and allows for future functionality around donations and patronage.
Nice one! :)

Zarestia
July 26th, 2021, 16:21
The Shop page is way better than before, not perfect but it's an iterative process (like all dev).

Main nitpicks from me (probably already said in the last 22 pages):
- Product Category and Types as checkboxes would be better in my opinion as you can filter more convenient (showing entry number at the top maybe [like some other sites do it])
- The rating process seems a bit unintuitive. Some enhanced form with the number of ratings would be preferred. Also, a comment / review section would help immensely (like on for example on DMsGuild)
- Some way to actually "delete" items from the inventory. Sometimes an extension gets absorbed into another one or an auhtor stops working on it. I think it would be good if we can declutter our inventory and don't need to see every non-updated non-working extension there.

Otherwise a really nice system which greatly enhances the QoL for all sides imo.

Zygmunt Molotch
July 26th, 2021, 17:29
since we're all counting I also disapprove of Microtransactions, that is the definitive anti-consumer practice

however I am aware that this is the FG forum

free and patronage is great though! :-)

guess it makes sense on the transferring side with the rates, only alternative is delayed settling at certain thresholds

SilentRuin
July 26th, 2021, 17:52
Do not despair SW,

I think you'll find many users see gold (coins) in a negative context because many games use this to sell advantages in game and special flair simply make extra money. These are usually called microtransactions when they do this kind of stuff and has a very negative view from gamers in general.

Unfortunately, when gamers see shops with gold or other types of non cash transactions - they immediately feel a negative feeling because of the microtransactions selling advantages and special flair just to milk the customer. I know this is not the case here - and suggest you'll have to weather this negative opinion until the gamers realize what your actually selling is not "special advantages" or "empty flair" simply to make money. But instead are selling actual tools and data to make the player and DM's life simpler.

So don't worry so much over the negative feedback of gold - while I prefer cash systems myself because of the negative feelings I have toward non cash transactions in other games - I try to shake that feeling off and understand that this is simply a small company doing the best it can for the sellers and buyers, keeping costs and overhead down.

Others will come to understand this with time. It just may take a while :)

LordEntrails
July 26th, 2021, 18:01
I added a developer ticket to add this language to the Treasury screen:


Why Gold?

Gold allows SmiteWorks to offer low cost Forge items from crafters without experiencing excessive transaction fees that would otherwise make it prohibitive to offer items under $5. This allows crafters to create and price the products at whatever price they want, allows users to transfer gold from one another without incurring additional fees, and allows for future functionality around donations and patronage.
The bold part, is that confusing to anyone else? It implies to me that we can transfer/send/share gold between forum accounts other than through 'purchases' of Forge products. Is that the case or am I just reading the wrong things into this?

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 18:02
since we're all counting I also disapprove of Microtransactions, that is the definitive anti-consumer practice
There are a bunch of things I don't think are great around all of this, but hate it or not, micro-transactions is a pretty standard practice for small in-app purchases. In the case of the Fantasy Grounds Forge, the reasons have been provided - it's not financially viable for SmiteWorks to process any payments less than $5, nothing else.

The main two alternatives, in this case, are:
1) Anything that is sold on the forge (i.e. not free) has a minimum cost of $5. This would include "tips" to crafters.
2) There's no forge at all and products that violate the WotC/DMsGuild agreement are removed from DMsGuild and no one has access to them.

Either of those would be a more definitive anti-consumer practice than having microtransactions.

As has been stated already in this thread - you'll never have more than 499 ($4.99) in gold in your account - usually much less. If all of this is an issue to you, then either miss out on buying things from the forge (which may not be an issue to you), or carefully manage your purchases so that you only buy products that amount to what you have in gold. SmiteWorks might make the options to add custom amounts above $5 in future (that's just my opinion) and if they do, this should make it much easier to keep a close to 0 gold balance in your account.

To step back from all this - a few months ago WotC and DMsGuild were going to pull a bunch of FG extensions/modules from their website (even $0/PWYW products). SmiteWorks has spent a lot of resources to get a solution in place that means that those products won't disappear and will have a home moving forwards. As part of this, they also added functionality that a lot of users have been asking for - auto update of community extensions/modules. All of this has come at a big up-front cost to SmiteWorks (in terms of their development, testing and hosting costs) and has a continuing cost (hosting, moderation, updates and support). To expect them to adopt a payment scheme that either makes them lose money (taking individual payments that are less than $5); pushes out some developers or artificially inflates the value of some content (due to a minimum non-gold payment) is a little short sighted IMO...

As @SilentRuin says above - please try to look passed your opinions of microtransactions in general and see where SmiteWorks are coming from, the situation they found themselves in a few months ago, and the amazing new Forge functionality that will only improve over time...

In the end, you're not being forced to purchase anything from the Forge - you can get all of the free products without buying any gold, and all of the official Fantasy Grounds products will be available from the Store as usual.

Naurthoron
July 26th, 2021, 21:12
There are more than 2 alternatives
e.g.:
3/ Everything becomes free/pay what you want/tip the author and there is no need for a specific transaction platform :-)

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 21:29
There are more than 2 alternatives
e.g.:
3/ Everything becomes free/pay what you want/tip the author and there is no need for a specific transaction platform :-)
Pay what you want/tip the author still requires a payment platform. As mentioned previously, making a low payment means that SmiteWorks lose money. So this isn't really an option either - unless you're suggesting SmiteWorks run the Forge at a loss?

Plus, this has a number of issues:
1) There are some products in the Forge now that are now over 500 gold to purchase - It's highly unlikely that these products would be produced and available in the Forge if "everything becomes free/pay what you want/tip the author". Whether you like these or not, the sales for some of these products when they were on DMsGuild were high - so that indicates that some people want these products and are willing to pay for them.
2) As I mentioned previously - the driver for getting the Forge developed was because some products for sale on DMsGuild were going to be removed, and the Forge was needed to provide a continued marketplace for those, and other such products. Making everything free/PWYW/tips does not provide a similar avenue for those products, even without taking into account the cost of any small PWYW/tips (as mentioned above).
3) As I also mentioned previously, setting up and maintaining the Forge has a cost associated with it. Are you suggesting that this cost is completely absorbed by SmiteWorks with further costs if someone tips $0.50 (for example)?

So, no, I don't see this as another alternative at all. Certainly not a realistic alternative based off all of the points made in this thread so far.

Don't lose sight that the Forge is a great place for creators to share their work with Fantasy Grounds users, backed by the FG update process to make sure you have the latest product version on your system. It's up to the creator if they charge anything for their work. The use of gold (pre-bought at a minimum of $5) means that the creator can charge what they want, without being restricted to any minimum or hoping for a small minority to be generous with PWIW/tips; and also means that SmiteWorks don't lost any money through transaction fees on small payments.

Naurthoron
July 26th, 2021, 21:44
No forge, no cost to absorb, and it is still possible to provide extensions outside of DMsG/SW.
There is probably no alternative as long as there is commercial intent, on that I agree.

lavoiejh
July 26th, 2021, 21:52
While I don't particularly care to make this thread solely focused on the gold currency issue, in the interest of preventing this from becoming an echo chamber where only negative voices are heard I will say that I don't have a problem with the current system. I think that Smiteworks has to do it this way to make the business side of the Forge make sense, and I don't mind having a couple bucks hanging around waiting for the next time I want to make a purchase. In fact, I think that if the alternative might be passing the processing costs on to the customer, I much prefer this system. I would much rather pay into a system where none of my money is lost to fees, than have every purchase be accompanied by a $1+ transaction fee.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think that there might be ways for Smiteworks to make it even more palatable, like allowing Forge gold to be spent on Store purchases like modules and art packs. Those kinds of things might help, but in the meantime I don't have an issue with the way it's set up.

LordEntrails
July 26th, 2021, 21:53
No forge, no cost to absorb, and it is still possible to provide extensions outside of DMsG/SW.
Not legally it isn't. If you read the license agreement you agreed to when you installed the software, it is illegal for you to distribute extensions outside of a license agreement with SmiteWorks. SmiteWorks allows extensions to be distributed for free on the forums here, with certain caveats. Extensions have also been distributed on the DMsGuild through a loophole or oversight, but are actually not supposed to be there. OBS has worked with SW to allow them to remain until the Forge is/was available.

And regardless of personal feelings, since community developers have been able to sell their extensions on the DMsGuild, their has been a huge increase in the number of extensions available to the community. So, the community developers themselves want a way to monetize their work, even if its small amounts just to feel appreciated. Any user who does not want to pay for an extension or use the Forge can simply not use it. That's how a free market works.

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 21:56
No forge, no cost to absorb, and it is still possible to provide extensions outside of DMsG/SW.
Nope. It's not possible to legally provide FG extensions/modules for cost outside of DMsGuild/SmiteWorks without permission from SmiteWorks.

Without the Forge we'd lost a bunch of extensions from DMsGuild that weren't in line with the WotC/DMsGuild agreement. There are some developers who wouldn't create their products, or make them available publicly, if they couldn't get some remuneration for them.

Stating this again, because I added it to my previous post at the same time you replied:

Don't lose sight that the Forge is a great place for creators to share their work with Fantasy Grounds users, backed by the FG update process to make sure you have the latest product version on your system. It's up to the creator if they charge anything for their work. The use of gold (pre-bought at a minimum of $5) means that the creator can charge what they want, without being restricted to any minimum or hoping for a small minority to be generous with PWIW/tips; and also means that SmiteWorks don't lost any money through transaction fees on small payments.

The Forge is the way forward for legally distributing content creator products - whether they choose to provide those for no cost or at a cost. Having the "gold" currency, with a minimum top up of $5, means that SmiteWorks don't lost any money on transactions and can hopefully recoup some of the large resource outlay they've had to get where we are, and will continue to have running into the future.

As said before - the Forge is not for mainline FG products. It's for community creators to make their products available to the FG community. And it's up to them if they charge for it. No one will force you to pay anything. And these creations aren't required for you to use Fantasy Grounds and the official product available through the store.

Naurthoron
July 26th, 2021, 22:07
I should have written "the forge", indeed, not outside SW.

lavoiejh
July 26th, 2021, 22:30
One issue I just noticed - When you advance to the next page of results the page stays scrolled to the bottom. This makes it so that after the first page you have to scroll all the way up, then all the way back down to see all the listings and go to the next page.

Also to reiterate this issue I brought up before: Should Core RPG compatible extensions also show up when a ruleset that is built on Core is selected as the filter? Or is that set by the developer when they make the listing? i.e. can the developer tell the filter system that an extension is for both Core and 5E?

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 22:34
I should have written "the forge", indeed, not outside SW.
So we’re back to community stuff in the forums, and no incentive for devs to produce content? Do you really want to stop using the Forge and go back to manually checking the forums, downloading and overwriting extensions?

Like it or not, the fact that FG community devs could get some recompense for their work has led to a big increase in available content.

FlyingFortress17
July 26th, 2021, 22:48
I really like the new Forge and what it offers!

After working with it over the last couple of days, I have a few suggestions:

1) Is it possible to get an option so that we can sort the shop page to show the newest/updated extensions in descending date order?
That way we can see what is new if we're just perusing and not looking for a specific item in the shop.

2) In the actual item page, is it possible to get a dedicated field at the top, like under the rating, that has the link to the help/comments topic in the forum?
The items I've looked through have it somewhere in the description, if at all. Depending on the length of the description, some of which are quite detailed, it can take a bit to find the link.
Having a dedicated field at the top where everyone knows where to look makes it really easy to find to ask questions or get help.

3) Are the suggestions for improvements to the Forge being tracked in the Idea Informer, or is the list under consideration only internal to SmiteWorks?
It would be useful to see what is under consideration and, depending on the complexity of the improvement request, might be helpful if people can vote to show how much it is wanted.

Lastly, this is a question and not a suggestion, what is the difference between the Accessory and Free Supplement items in the Product Type filter?
It seems like a lot of items listed as a Free Supplement could also be listed as an Accessory with no price, so not sure what differentiates one from the other. It also seems to cross over into the Price filter which is kind of confusing.

Thank you again for making this happen and looking forward to using this going forward!

FlyingFortress

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 22:53
Lastly, this is a question and not a suggestion, what is the difference between the Accessory and Free Supplement items in the Product Type filter?
It seems like a lot of items listed as a Free Supplement could also be listed as an Accessory with no price, so not sure what differentiates one from the other. It also seems to cross over into the Price filter which is kind of confusing.
I think the categories have been taken from the store categories. So, yeah, it can be a bit confusing when trying to fit your product into the current categories. Hopefully there'll be some refinement of the available categories and guidance on what to select at some point.

Moon Wizard
July 26th, 2021, 22:57
Thanks for your ideas. We're only tracking these items internally for now; especially since we haven't even done our final marketing announcement for launch of the Forge yet. We'll refine the process as we go.

Regards,
JPG

eporrini
July 26th, 2021, 23:25
Can we get the Forge added as a major category in the Forums?. It would give us a place to discuss and post questions regarding extensions that targets the right audience. Also, you could take the forum link currently on the forge site and point it back directly to it's proper category. No I will not put this in any kind of suggestion box, take this simple request and do with it what you will.

SilentRuin
July 26th, 2021, 23:27
Thanks for your ideas. We're only tracking these items internally for now; especially since we haven't even done our final marketing announcement for launch of the Forge yet. We'll refine the process as we go.

Regards,
JPG

Well keep in mind - Aug 1st you will see a number of refugees from DMsG and the wrath of WOTC on extensions! Tick tock!

bmos
July 26th, 2021, 23:28
Can we get the Forge added as a major category in the Forums?. It would give us a place to discuss and post questions regarding extensions that targets the right audience. Also, you could take the forum link currently on the forge site and point it back directly to it's proper category. No I will not put this in any kind of suggestion box, take this simple request and do with it what you will.

What would be the point of that as opposed to the various subforums of The Armory (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?44-Armory-(campaigns-modules-rulesets-maps-and-tokens))?
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just genuinely curious why you'd want Forge products to be separate.

Trenloe
July 26th, 2021, 23:44
No I will not put this in any kind of suggestion box, take this simple request and do with it what you will.
OK, weird comment, but whatever floats your boatÖ. Moved your post to the Forge discussion thread.

WishX
July 27th, 2021, 16:28
This thread was accidentally closed. It has been re-opened for discussion. Pardon the interruption.

damned
July 27th, 2021, 17:11
This thread was accidentally closed. It has been re-opened for discussion. Pardon the interruption.

I think its part of a grand conspiracy and I think you are just running protection for whoever is responsible.
Ill get to the bottom of this and expose your dastardly plans just you wait and see!

Dudin
July 27th, 2021, 17:21
Roll me an investigation check with Advantage...

Nylanfs
July 27th, 2021, 17:49
Does my Knowledge (Conspiracy Theories) give me advantage or a plus to the roll?

ddavison
July 27th, 2021, 17:51
Does my Knowledge (Conspiracy Theories) give me advantage or a plus to the roll?

I think the proper way to apply that is to display that you got a large bonus but we actually grant you a penalty.

Pharoid
July 27th, 2021, 21:54
Any chance that the Forge will be getting Affiliate systems negotiated with some of the rulesets kind of like the TAS program for DTRPG? MGT2 in particular but I'm sure there are many others that would benefit from being able to create content using some of their IP. I'd like to be able to make deckplans (with my own assets etc..) but based on a standard design and release them here. If you release content using the Vault option doesn't that restrict the content to Fantasy Grounds? Maybe that feature would help leverage publishers to agree. I know you neck deep in 5e right now so maybe this is jumping the gun a bit. Maybe some vaulted fantasy grounds exclusive content would help drive FGU and ruleset purchases.

Zacchaeus
July 27th, 2021, 22:02
Since you are going to need FGU to be able to download anything from the vault then yes, that 'restricts' it to FGU. Not sure who else would want to buy an extension for FGU other than users of the program.

ddavison
July 27th, 2021, 22:37
Any chance that the Forge will be getting Affiliate systems negotiated with some of the rulesets kind of like the TAS program for DTRPG? MGT2 in particular but I'm sure there are many others that would benefit from being able to create content using some of their IP. I'd like to be able to make deckplans (with my own assets etc..) but based on a standard design and release them here. If you release content using the Vault option doesn't that restrict the content to Fantasy Grounds? Maybe that feature would help leverage publishers to agree. I know you neck deep in 5e right now so maybe this is jumping the gun a bit. Maybe some vaulted fantasy grounds exclusive content would help drive FGU and ruleset purchases.

Yes, quite possibly. I am in talks with a number of publishers who would be interested in allowing you to link directly to their products within your own creations. This would create a dependency on their product, though, so we need to think about the best way to provide this information to customers of the FG Forge. If it becomes popular, we could even pre-determine whether or not you had all the dependencies on your account already or if you need to buy anything else before you can use the Forge item. For instance, if you used tokens from one of Devin Night's packs, NPCs from Kobold Press' Tome of Beasts, or you used a map from an AAW module. This method would require you to link to those items and not duplicate it. Stay tuned for more guidance on this subject.

Moon Wizard
July 27th, 2021, 22:45
I'm closing this thread now. There is an official sub-forum for Forge support now.

Forum
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?129

Overview Post
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?69807

Any further discussions should be started as new threads in that forum, and any suggestions should be added to the wish list.

Regards,
JPG