Important Notice: New Product Support ending June 24, 2021 - Fantasy Grounds Classic

[ddavison]

Warning
Beginning on June 24, 2021, Fantasy Grounds Classic will no longer receive any product updates or DLC releases. Please consider upgrading to Fantasy Grounds Unity.

Background
Fantasy Grounds has been renamed to Fantasy Grounds Classic. This is the version of our software that began in 2004 and which received regular updates and DLC releases up until we stop providing them on June 24, 2021. All future updates and releases of the software will be done on Fantasy Grounds Unity and we hope to continue that for years or decades ahead.

Fantasy Grounds Unity has pretty much all the same functionality as Classic, but with many notable improvements. It also provides a much better platform for us to build from. Supporting both versions with new releases means double the testing time, increased development costs, twice the server storage, and significant limitations on what we can do within new products. This additional time investment affects us and our community developers and it delays the releases of new products. Our usage data indicates that only a small percentage of our users continue to use Fantasy Ground Classic. By focusing on Fantasy Grounds Unity, we expect a better experience for the vast majority of our players and GMs.

What about my current FG Classic Game?
You can continue to use FG Classic for as long as you'd like. Our alias server will remain up and functioning and we will support this and customer support requests for the product. New installations will still be able to install all purchases as they are on 2021-06-24.

If we add new functionality, fixes, or features to any rulesets you use beyond June 24, then you will not receive those updates. Your update button simply won't light up anymore.

If we add new adventure modules or other DLC, those won't be available on FG Classic. They will only be added to Fantasy Grounds Unity.

How can I upgrade to Fantasy Grounds Unity
This will be a paid upgrade. At this time, there is no longer an upgrade discount.
Your campaigns and creations can be copied over to FG Unity and you can resume play there. To upgrade, just login and add the FGU license to your cart and you see the discount applied in your shopping cart.

Related Fantasy Grounds Customer Portal pages
Link: Fantasy Grounds Unity System Requirements (https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/1136984087/System+Requirements)
Link: Upgrading to Fantasy Grounds Unity? (https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/1103691877/Upgrading+to+Fantasy+Grounds+Unity)

[*Neuro*]

thanks god, I am happy. More resources for FGU. I appreciate these kind of news.

[Nyghtmare]

Exceptionally great news indeed, especially for us converter types!!!

[ChrisRevocateur]

If there are updates to a module that is available for both FGC and FGU after the 24th, will FGC continue to get the version from before said update, or if a future change breaks a module for FGC then we're just SOL?

[Neovirtus]

If there are updates to a module that is available for both FGC and FGU after the 24th

There won't be, any updates after the 24th will only go to FGU.


will FGC continue to get the version from before said update
Yes, This is my understanding.

I don't work for them, but I think those answers are pretty clear from the OP.

[ddavison]

There should not be any future changes to anything for your FGC account, so nothing should break. If there is anything we miss, we will judge this on a case-by-case basis.

[Ulric]

This good news! My FGU campaigns are stable and this allows SW to focus on FGU improvements.

[LordEntrails]

This will be a paid upgrade, but it is discounted by 50% for owners of FG Classic if you upgrade to the same type of license.
Any statement how long this discount will be available for?

[ddavison]

Any statement how long this discount will be available for?

We have not determined yet, but we have decided that it won't be permanently available. It's existence complicates a few things with sales and clutters the product pages on Steam. We might let it continue through Q3 or possibly until the end of the year.

[ProfDogg]

This saddens me greatly... Being a player in both systems (FGC and FGU), I greatly love the ease of usage in FGC compared to the more buggy FGU. FGU breaks, it gets fixed, it breaks again... FGC continues onward and has a much smaller resource usage (i.e. players don't have to reboot in the middle of a game bc their system just started smoking)... I would appreciate it if Smiteworks would consider two stores, one for each system.

[celestian]

Very glad to see the date for this given. It means content development will be much more simple. I've been holding off working on various projects myself because of this.

Happy to see this day come.

[deer_buster]

This saddens me greatly... Being a player in both systems (FGC and FGU), I greatly love the ease of usage in FGC compared to the more buggy FGU. FGU breaks, it gets fixed, it breaks again... FGC continues onward and has a much smaller resource usage (i.e. players don't have to reboot in the middle of a game bc their system just started smoking)... I would appreciate it if Smiteworks would consider two stores, one for each system.

Just not sustainable from a software or content development perspective. Different beasts that requires more effort. Every major software does it.

[esmdev]

I am glad to see FGC depreciated as it will make life easier on the developers and maybe speed up some of the internal testing, however, I do think that the timeframe is shorter than most people might have anticipated at only 20 days from announcement to ending.

[Moon Wizard]

FGC is not deprecated; we're just starting the sunsetting process. FGC will continue to remain supported for now; just no new products will be released, and no new updates will be provided to DLC.

Regards,
JPG

[Grommit57]

Good New!

[statik37]

This may be a silly question, but all of our previous purchases will still be available in FGU, correct? We won't have to rebuy the modules or rulesets we purchased already?

[Zarestia]

This may be a silly question, but all of our previous purchases will still be available in FGU, correct? We won't have to rebuy the modules or rulesets we purchased already?

Yes, they're mapped to your account. Just login with the same account in FGU after you've got the license and you should see all purchased products after an update.

[Voldran]

How can I upgrade to Fantasy Grounds Unity
This will be a paid upgrade, but it is discounted by 50% for owners of FG Classic if you upgrade to the same type of license. If there is a sale going on, this gets applied after the discount. Your campaigns and creations can be copied over to FG Unity and you can resume play there. To upgrade, just login and add the FGU license to your cart and you see the discount applied in your shopping cart.

How do we do this with Steam? And will the discount still apply? I've been wanting to upgrade for awhile, but I have a large paid library of Pathfinder material (Core Rules and Campaigns), and rebuying material is a waste of resources.

[lonejedi]

Is there a process in place for a Player to be able to buy their GM a discounted Ultimate Upgrade on the GM's account?

[JohnD]

How do we do this with Steam? And will the discount still apply? I've been wanting to upgrade for awhile, but I have a large paid library of Pathfinder material (Core Rules and Campaigns), and rebuying material is a waste of resources.

DLC from FGC is forward compatible with FGU so you don't have to re-purchase anything.

Going forward, new DLC will be released as FGU compatible only, so it won't work in FGC.

[Valyar]

I welcome this change, because now I have to worry for one program while doing layout. And I am sad, because /reload will take five times longer :(

[ddavison]

How do we do this with Steam? And will the discount still apply? I've been wanting to upgrade for awhile, but I have a large paid library of Pathfinder material (Core Rules and Campaigns), and rebuying material is a waste of resources.

DLC moves over automatically. Each DLC now has two parent app IDs within Steam, so they show up under FGU once you have FGU.

The upgrades on Steam are Complete the Set Bundles. It should recognize your previous purchase and grant you the 50% discount on the items you still have to purchase.

FG Classic - Standard Upgrade Bundle (https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/13834/Upgrade_from_Fantasy_Grounds_to_Fantasy_Grounds_Un ity_Standard_license/)
FG Classic - Ultimate Upgrade Bundle (https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/15993/)

[Dax Doomslayer]

I figured this would happen and don't really have an issue with this being the direction Smiteworks is going. My concern is that there's only be a 20 day notice but such is life I guess...

[deer_buster]

FGC is not deprecated; we're just starting the sunsetting process. FGC will continue to remain supported for now; just no new products will be released, and no new updates will be provided to DLC.

Regards,
JPG

Yeah, you are pushing a favored version of something...kind of the definition of deprecated????


to withdraw official support for or discourage the use of (something, such as a software product) in favor of a newer or better alternative

The very fact that you will no longer release new DLC or updates to DLC amounts to the same thing as discouraging the use of FGC and the discounted price to upgrade is encouraging the use of a "newer or better alternative", whether you want to say that or not. Semantics


EDIT: I am not saying anything bad about this change...so don't get yer panties in a wad :)

[Jiminimonka]

Good news, for Smiteworks, the Community Developers that have to make 2 versions of everything and for the user base, because development can focus on just Fantasy Grounds Unity.

All win.

[Fear Grounds]

Is there a process in place for a Player to be able to buy their GM a discounted Ultimate Upgrade on the GM's account?

The easiest way to do this is to have the player/group transfer the money to the GM, then you can purchase through your account and get the discounted price.

[ddavison]

The easiest way to do this is to have the player/group transfer the money to the GM, then you can purchase through your account and get the discounted price.

If your player has an ultimate license and they purchase the upgrade to unity, they can then gift the new license to you.

You can no longer gift a bundle discounted item. That used to be the case, but it was an avenue for potential abuse that we turned off. For now, we don't have a great way to gift it to a GM other than sending them funds to make the purchase on their own.

[lonejedi]

Thanks. I just happened to think about looking at the upgrade-via-Steam route... and I think I see how that would work now ;)

[Fear Grounds]

You can no longer gift a bundle discounted item. That used to be the case, but it was an avenue for potential abuse that we turned off. For now, we don't have a great way to gift it to a GM other than sending them funds to make the purchase on their own.

That's good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

[matjam]

Fully support this decision. As a software engineer, I understand the difficulties placed on small teams maintaining legacy projects. Being able to focus on FGU 100% is going to be huge in terms of productivity.

Just hoping you guys will fix that rendering scaled displays issue ;-)

[readymeal]

Now if I update with FGU every DLC in the FG shop I made including proper sized maps, they will not work in FGC anymore...
I have been pandering about how to chop up a XL map for the last 5 months to make it fit into FGC...that announcement made it easier... still about 12Meg though.

[magnus1]

MODERATOR: Comment removed. Please keep your comments respectable.

[damned]

Now if I update with FGU every DLC in the FG shop I made including proper sized maps, they will not work in FGC anymore...
I have been pandering about how to chop up a XL map for the last 5 months to make it fit into FGC...that announcement made it easier... still about 12Meg though.

You should still consider chopping that map up.

[ShotGun Jolly]

This saddens me greatly... Being a player in both systems (FGC and FGU), I greatly love the ease of usage in FGC compared to the more buggy FGU. FGU breaks, it gets fixed, it breaks again... FGC continues onward and has a much smaller resource usage (i.e. players don't have to reboot in the middle of a game bc their system just started smoking)... I would appreciate it if Smiteworks would consider two stores, one for each system.

Yeah, I doubt they are going to do that.

But this is actually good news, and it's only going to help them compete with other vtts on the market. Having to no longer split resources on old and new tech, and now just focus on the newer tech is only going to make things better overall. This is a good thing.

[Skellan]

I have had hours and hours of fun with classic, but it is time to move on :)

[YAKO SOMEDAKY]

So that means that in July, all updates to both the platform and the systems (set of rules and the like) will only be made for the Unity version?
This means that there is a big chance of implementing the Idea Informer stuff, or a greater focus on stabilizing rulesets (some are very slow to open spreadsheets, perform scrolls) of course it's a layman speaking, so I don't know if it's programming for Ruleset or if it's the FGU itself.
But anyway my thousands of hours at FGC will be forever in my heart!

[magnus1]

You censoring the truth again?

[Jiminimonka]

You censoring the truth again?

What truth is that then?

[Zacchaeus]

What truth is that then?

I suspect relating to whatever he said in the post Moon Wizard deleted. So I don't think we want him to repeat it just so we can delete it again.

[Speculi]

I can understand the decision from a development and business position. Especially for the future of FGU it will have a lot of benefits to not have to be backwards compatible with everything.
Some in my group think the ~20 day notice was pretty short and I agree with them to a degree, but on the other hand it was communicated for quite some time that this will happen eventually.

That being said, I think you should consider adding really big disclaimers to the store pages for FGC (fantasygrounds.com, Steam and possibly DMsGuild?, or wherever you might sell licenses).
There might be an argument to still allow buying FGC for some reason. It might even be technically necessary for Steam to allow for the upgrade bundle, I don't know. But at least new customers should make an informed decision.


We plan to keep FGC updated and running for as long as the demand remains high. It won't receive any major functionality enhancements outside of ruleset updates, which are shared among FGU and FGC.
This is still part of the FGC store page and could be improved. FGC won't receive any updates at all after June 24th.

While I already have a FGU license since the Kickstarter, it might be nice for those who don't to also know how long the 50% upgrade discount will be available, or if it will even stay indefinitely.

I also have a question regarding new purchases after June 24th:
If I buy something after the FGC sunset date, will I still be able to use it on FGC and FGU, if the product is/was available for both?
Let's say I decide to buy "Savage Worlds Adventure Edition", which is currently available for FGC and FGU, after that date. Would I be able to use it in both?
(Obviously the FGU version might receive improvements later on which will not be available to the FGC version.)

[Jiminimonka]

I can understand the decision from a development and business position. Especially for the future of FGU it will have a lot of benefits to not have to be backwards compatible with everything.
Some in my group think the ~20 day notice was pretty short and I agree with them to a degree, but on the other hand it was communicated for quite some time that this will happen eventually.

That being said, I think you should consider adding really big disclaimers to the store pages for FGC (fantasygrounds.com, Steam and possibly DMsGuild?, or wherever you might sell licenses).
There might be an argument to still allow buying FGC for some reason. It might even be technically necessary for Steam to allow for the upgrade bundle, I don't know. But at least new customers should make an informed decision.


This is still part of the FGC store page and could be improved. FGC won't receive any updates at all after June 24th.

While I already have a FGU license since the Kickstarter, it might be nice for those who don't to also know how long the 50% upgrade discount will be available, or if it will even stay indefinitely.

I also have a question regarding new purchases after June 24th:
If I buy something after the FGC sunset date, will I still be able to use it on FGC and FGU, if the product is/was available for both?
Let's say I decide to buy "Savage Worlds Adventure Edition", which is currently available for FGC and FGU, after that date. Would I be able to use it in both?
(Obviously the FGU version might receive improvements later on which will not be available to the FGC version.)

When FGU was launched it was made clear it was to replace FGC and that FGC would be gone shortly after Unity was out of Beta. Unity is well out of Beta now.

Every single DLC currently out works in FGU and FGC, because the developers make them for both versions.
After the 24th, the will stop making them for FGC and focus only on FGU.

As the post says after this date, the update button will NEVER LIGHT UP AGAIN in FGC.

I would suggest a warning message pop-up in FGC telling everyone its reached its End of Life and it's time to upgrade (if that is even possible with the ancient engine of FGC).

EDIT: There is a 30 day no quibble money back refund on all FG stuff, so if someone buys FGC and then finds out its obsolete, they can get a refund and buy the new version.

[deer_buster]

I also have a question regarding new purchases after June 24th:
If I buy something after the FGC sunset date, will I still be able to use it on FGC and FGU, if the product is/was available for both?
Let's say I decide to buy "Savage Worlds Adventure Edition", which is currently available for FGC and FGU, after that date. Would I be able to use it in both?
(Obviously the FGU version might receive improvements later on which will not be available to the FGC version.)

I would hope that Doug and John would allow this for any DLC that is FGC compatible, because that would make sense...but you never know sometimes

[Jiminimonka]

I would hope that Doug and John would allow this for any DLC that is FGC compatible, because that would make sense...but you never know sometimes

If its FGC compatible, that would just be lucky. It doesnt make any sense. The devs (including the community devs that make all the modules for various rulesets) will have more time to focus on Unity and adding Unity features (which will increase over time) - why should they have to check if its compatible with Classic? They should not. The entire point of Unity was to allow Fantasy Grounds to evolve. Keeping the entire back catalogue compatible with with Unity and Classic has been achieved. Making Unity stuff backwards compatible with Class was not part of the deal and is off the cards and a waste of time and resources.

Its June - Unity has been out long enough, and I reckon most people are already using it anyway.

[Speculi]

When FGU was launched it was made clear it was to replace FGC and that FGC would be gone shortly after Unity was out of Beta. Unity is well out of Beta now.
It was generally communicated that FGC will be deprecated at some point after FGU is fully released, it was a short notice for the final sunset date. That's why I think it is a short notice, but I also think it is okay-ish. :)


As the post says after this date, the update button will NEVER LIGHT UP AGAIN in FGC.
Yes, but it also says:

New installations will still be able to install all purchases as they are on 2021-06-24.
So I think the question is still valid if a purchase which currently would give access to FGC/FGU will continue to give that (even though the FGC version will be only in the state as of June 24th of this year). I'm not asking for updates or new releases. That was made clear.


EDIT: There is a 30 day no quibble money back refund on all FG stuff, so if someone buys FGC and then finds out its obsolete, they can get a refund and buy the new version.
I know, but it depends on the store, i.e. not true for Steam. Even if it was, I personally would still suggest a clear and eye catching disclaimer in the store description instead of handling refunds after the fact... Just my personal opinion.

EDIT:

If its FGC compatible, that would just be lucky.
No, it wouldn't be lucky, it would just be the status quo... it is already compatible with FGC, because it is currently available for both. Since neither FGC nor any of the products will receive an update they will continue to be compatible with each other.

[deer_buster]

If its FGC compatible, that would just be lucky. It doesnt make any sense. The devs (including the community devs that make all the modules for various rulesets) will have more time to focus on Unity and adding Unity features (which will increase over time) - why should they have to check if its compatible with Classic? They should not. The entire point of Unity was to allow Fantasy Grounds to evolve. Keeping the entire back catalogue compatible with with Unity and Classic has been achieved. Making Unity stuff backwards compatible with Class was not part of the deal and is off the cards and a waste of time and resources.

Its June - Unity has been out long enough, and I reckon most people are already using it anyway.

I am referring to the ones that currently are already FGC compatible. Makes perfect sense.

[damned]

I welcome this change, because now I have to worry for one program while doing layout. And I am sad, because /reload will take five times longer :(

Set the campaign to LAN and it should be quicker to reload.

[Dax Doomslayer]

I was of the same mind as you @Speculi. While it was generally indicated that eventually would be sunset, the final date (20 days) is pretty swift. I have a number of players on old laptops which FGU doesn't run well on (I was in on the KS for FGU). That said, it's an understandable business move but I'm surprised at how short the notice.

[Zarestia]

I was of the same mind as you @Speculi. While it was generally indicated that eventually would be sunset, the final date (20 days) is pretty swift. I have a number of players on old laptops which FGU doesn't run well on (I was in on the KS for FGU). That said, it's an understandable business move but I'm surprised at how short the notice.

FGU runs way better than shortly after the kickstarter if you haven't tried it out again until now.

[damned]

I was of the same mind as you @Speculi. While it was generally indicated that eventually would be sunset, the final date (20 days) is pretty swift. I have a number of players on old laptops which FGU doesn't run well on (I was in on the KS for FGU). That said, it's an understandable business move but I'm surprised at how short the notice.

Do note that FGC wont stop working because of this date.
FGC will stop working at some point for other reasons - someone buys a Mac or a Windows update breaks things - but it wont stop working for your current group because of this announcement.

[ShotGun Jolly]

Do note that FGC wont stop working because of this date.
FGC will stop working at some point for other reasons - someone buys a Mac or a Windows update breaks things - but it wont stop working for your current group because of this announcement.

I was just about to say what Damned said.. so I wont. But everything you own, will still work... So no worries to your current groups.

[MadBeardMan]

Set the campaign to LAN and it should be quicker to reload.

I agree with Valyar about the 'current' performance.

With Traveller:
FGC - load 3.5s, /reload 2s
FGU - load 9s, /reload 9s (LAN based)

But people won't think that 6/7 seconds makes a difference, it does when you're reloading a thousand times to move those labels by 1 pixel....

However, when you do a reload with FGU you get everything reloaded, with FGC you lose tokens and it doesn't reload the base.xml. We also have to think that FGC is older, it's been worked on for many many years and FGU is newer, plus they're adding more and more bells and whistles, so optimisation is something you do a bit later.

Now we will save time as we don't have to check FGC and FGU and I'm sure the performance will get better so I welcome this news, though I would have thought we'd get more than 3 weeks notice, I just released a big update and I hope I can fix the nasty bugs before its frozen...

Cheers,
MBM

[damned]

My ruleset Im working on at the moment reloads in under 2secs on a pretty underpowered PC.
Maybe the tokens and images (which I dont have a lot of) is a big factor there.

[Jiminimonka]

Mine takes a while too. I have a stupid large image/token folder.

[MadBeardMan]

My ruleset Im working on at the moment reloads in under 2secs on a pretty underpowered PC.
Maybe the tokens and images (which I dont have a lot of) is a big factor there.

My PC is a beast of a PC, it's quicker under Linux a bit than Windows. But I have a lot of content with a lot of tokens/assets for FGU (damn me for creating so much content). But of course the same content is with FGC. Anyway, if they can just work on performance that a few of us have mention in the future then we're all happy.

Thinking as well, I also hope FGU remembers my screen position/size when I do the updates.

Huzzah

[Dax Doomslayer]

Do note that FGC wont stop working because of this date.
FGC will stop working at some point for other reasons - someone buys a Mac or a Windows update breaks things - but it wont stop working for your current group because of this announcement.

I totally understand and I'm not against what's being done - it was expected and it is totally understandable and is a step forward for Smiteworks. However, it is the notice piece that I was a bit disappointed with. When software is sunset, usually there's a bit of time given for transition. I have a lot of WotC books, modules etc. If they stop updating that for FGC with the bug fixes et. al. (which is how I'm reading this), it does have an impact. Eventually I will go to FGU. My issue, like I said, I have players with pretty old technology. I don't know how it's going to run (it was really slow with FGC). Also, I'll have to sit down and go over the changes (which seems mostly with how images are handled as best I can tell) and how lighting works and then teach my group on what changed which can be like herding cats at times with some of them...

[ddavison]

That being said, I think you should consider adding really big disclaimers to the store pages for FGC (fantasygrounds.com, Steam and possibly DMsGuild?, or wherever you might sell licenses).
There might be an argument to still allow buying FGC for some reason. It might even be technically necessary for Steam to allow for the upgrade bundle, I don't know. But at least new customers should make an informed decision.


That is the plan. We have alerts up on FGC licenses here and announcements on Steam for it. I need to find that bit of text and change it. We may have other areas that need to be updated that we have to locate and edit to be accurate going forward. For DMsGuild, I need to add that still.



I also have a question regarding new purchases after June 24th:
If I buy something after the FGC sunset date, will I still be able to use it on FGC and FGU, if the product is/was available for both?
Let's say I decide to buy "Savage Worlds Adventure Edition", which is currently available for FGC and FGU, after that date. Would I be able to use it in both?
(Obviously the FGU version might receive improvements later on which will not be available to the FGC version.)

This would still work. If you bought SWADE in November 2021 - several months after the cutoff, you would update in FGU and get the most recent version that works only in FGU. If you update in FGC, you will get the pre-June 24 version that was the last time it was updated for FGC.

[Trenloe]

For devs having large /reload times - look in your console.log file. FGU gives times to load specific things. This will help to identify what is taking a lot of time.

For example:


[6/7/2021 11:17:16 AM] MEASURE: RULESETS LOAD - 6.4175463 - PFRPG2
[6/7/2021 11:17:16 AM] MEASURE: EXTENSIONS LOAD - 0.0159582 - 3
[6/7/2021 11:17:43 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LIST BUILD - 27.3664167 - 817
[6/7/2021 11:17:47 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH IMAGE ASSETS - 3.6448787
[6/7/2021 11:17:47 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH PORTRAIT ASSETS - 0.0322312
[6/7/2021 11:17:49 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH TOKEN ASSETS - 2.4137092
[6/7/2021 11:17:49 AM] MEASURE: ASSET LIST BUILD - 6.0918182
[6/7/2021 11:17:52 AM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 1 - 42.9208694

- 6.4 seconds to load the ruleset.
- Hardly any time to load 3 extensions.
- 27 seconds just to load the list of available modules - 817 modules in total! Wow! That's lots! Yeah, this campaign has the Universal Modules extension enabled, so FGU is basically unpacking and loading the definition.xml file for 817 modules.
- 3.6 seconds to refresh image assets.
- Negligible time for portraits.
- 2.4 seconds for tokens.
- 6 seconds to build the asset list.
For a grand total of 42 seconds to load just part 1 - before it moves on to load the campaign and opened modules data.

Removing the Universal Modules extension reduces part 1 to 15 seconds:

[6/7/2021 2:03:07 PM] MEASURE: RULESETS LOAD - 5.6420406 - PFRPG2
[6/7/2021 2:03:07 PM] MEASURE: EXTENSIONS LOAD - 0.0143472 - 2
[6/7/2021 2:03:13 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LIST BUILD - 5.691135 - 221
[6/7/2021 2:03:14 PM] MEASURE: REFRESH IMAGE ASSETS - 0.9240727
[6/7/2021 2:03:14 PM] MEASURE: REFRESH PORTRAIT ASSETS - 0.0168492
[6/7/2021 2:03:15 PM] MEASURE: REFRESH TOKEN ASSETS - 0.6651514
[6/7/2021 2:03:15 PM] MEASURE: ASSET LIST BUILD - 1.6060733
[6/7/2021 2:03:17 PM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 1 - 15.024842

But then part 2 (loading of campaign data and modules) still takes 20 seconds:

[6/7/2021 2:03:18 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.1830767 - FG Battle Maps
[6/7/2021 2:03:21 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 2.5167697 - Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide
[6/7/2021 2:03:22 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 1.4865127 - Pathfinder Lost Omens Ancestry Guide
[6/7/2021 2:03:22 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 0.0293107 - Pathfinder Lost Omens Azarketi Ancestry
[6/7/2021 2:03:24 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 1.3610592 - Lost Omens Character Guide - Player Guide
[6/7/2021 2:03:26 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 2.2662763 - Pathfinder Lost Omens Gods-Magic
[6/7/2021 2:03:30 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 4.4313198 - Pathfinder Lost Omens World Guide
[6/7/2021 2:03:36 PM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 5.8711502 - Pathfinder Second Edition Core Rules
[6/7/2021 2:03:37 PM] RULESET: Pathfinder RPG Second Edition ruleset v2021-06-15 (PF2 release 18e) for Fantasy Grounds
Copyright 2021 Smiteworks USA, LLC
[6/7/2021 2:03:37 PM] RULESET: Core RPG ruleset (v2021-06-01) for Fantasy Grounds
Copyright 2021 Smiteworks USA, LLC
[6/7/2021 2:03:37 PM] EXTENSION: Extension (Dev: Conversion*Checker) loaded.
[6/7/2021 2:03:37 PM] EXTENSION: Extension (Dev: Properties Inspector) loaded.
[6/7/2021 2:03:37 PM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 2 - 20.7562357

So, this should help to identify what areas can be reduced for those devs doing frequent /reload operations. In the above example, after disabling the Universal Modules extension, there's not much else I can realistically do to reduce the part 1 load time (as the main portion of that is from the PFRPG2 ruleset and the standard modules that PFRPG2 can open), but I can easily reduce part 2 from 20 seconds down to 7-8 seconds for the dev work I'm currently doing. So, in this example, I've gone from 57 seconds down to 23. Still more than FGC, but definitely a big improvement.

[Speculi]

That is the plan. We have alerts up on FGC licenses here and announcements on Steam for it. I need to find that bit of text and change it. We may have other areas that need to be updated that we have to locate and edit to be accurate going forward. For DMsGuild, I need to add that still.
Good to know you are on it. (That text is one of the foldouts on the FGC store page, btw.)
May I suggest to add it to the actual description on Steam? Not everyone will read announcements before buying and they might rotate out for newer announcements... :) The sunset date was only just announced, so I believe you will do the right thing.


This would still work. If you bought SWADE in November 2021 - several months after the cutoff, you would update in FGU and get the most recent version that works only in FGU. If you update in FGC, you will get the pre-June 24 version that was the last time it was updated for FGC.
That's what I was expecting, but wasn't entirely clear for me. Thanks for the confirmation! :)

[MadBeardMan]

For devs having large /reload times - look in your console.log file. FGU gives times to load specific things. This will help to identify what is taking a lot of time.

For example:

SNIP!

So, this should help to identify what areas can be reduced for those devs doing frequent /reload operations. In the above example, after disabling Universal Extensions, there's not much else I can realistically do to reduce the part 1 load time (as the main portion of that is from the PFRPG2 ruleset and the standard modules that PFRPG2 can open), but I can easily reduce part 2 from 20 seconds down to 7-8 seconds for the dev work I'm currently doing. So, in this example, I've gone from 57 seconds down to 23. Still more than FGC, but definitely a big improvement.

Hey Fella,

Thanks for the heads-up, that's really interesting, how do you disable universal extensions?

Here's my load times


[6/7/2021 10:49:38 AM] Reloading ruleset and data
[6/7/2021 10:49:38 AM] Tabletop scene exiting.
[6/7/2021 10:49:38 AM] Tabletop scene starting.
[6/7/2021 10:49:38 AM] NETWORK STATUS: [Server] [Connected]
[Server Type - LAN]
[6/7/2021 10:49:44 AM] MEASURE: RULESETS LOAD - 5.1687894 - MGT2
[6/7/2021 10:49:44 AM] MEASURE: EXTENSIONS LOAD - 0 - 0
[6/7/2021 10:49:45 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LIST BUILD - 1.5703149 - 65
[6/7/2021 10:49:45 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH IMAGE ASSETS - 0.1090255
[6/7/2021 10:49:45 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH PORTRAIT ASSETS - 0.0050003
[6/7/2021 10:49:45 AM] MEASURE: REFRESH TOKEN ASSETS - 0.080018
[6/7/2021 10:49:45 AM] MEASURE: ASSET LIST BUILD - 0.1940438
[6/7/2021 10:49:46 AM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 1 - 7.5582883
[6/7/2021 10:49:50 AM] MEASURE: MODULE LOAD - 3.2102185 - Drinaxian Companion
[6/7/2021 10:49:50 AM] RULESET: Mongoose Traveller 2E Copyright 2016 Mongoose Publishing.; all rights reserved.
[6/7/2021 10:49:50 AM] RULESET: Mongoose Traveller 2E Core ruleset v1.2.4 (2021-05-29) for Fantasy Grounds Copyright 2019/2021 Mongoose Publishing
[6/7/2021 10:49:50 AM] RULESET: Core RPG ruleset (v2021-06-01) for Fantasy Grounds Copyright 2021 Smiteworks USA, LLC
[6/7/2021 10:49:50 AM] MEASURE: LOAD - PART 2 - 3.874416

I shall try and optimise things for the Companion and see if that makes a difference, but it's mostly MGT2 which will get bigger over time, though it too can be refactored. I suspect it's the large number of images that are to blame.

I am also slowly going to remove all extensions and place those as decals, that will help players.

But anything done inside FGU to reduce it by 10% is noticeable and most welcome, but as I said, optimisation comes later for most projects.

Cheers,
MBM

[Trenloe]

Thanks for the heads-up, that's really interesting, how do you disable universal extensions?
Sorry, I was referring to the Universal Modules extension: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?41034-Universal-Module-Extension Edit made in my post to clarify.

This basically makes most (if not all) of the installed modules accessible to your campaign - so significantly increases stage 1 load time, as FG needs to scan all modules, not just the ones limited to the campaign ruleset.

[Mytherus]

This saddens me greatly... Being a player in both systems (FGC and FGU), I greatly love the ease of usage in FGC compared to the more buggy FGU. FGU breaks, it gets fixed, it breaks again... FGC continues onward and has a much smaller resource usage (i.e. players don't have to reboot in the middle of a game bc their system just started smoking)... I would appreciate it if Smiteworks would consider two stores, one for each system.

If your FGU breaks, as you say, regularly..it might the ruleset you use perhaos mods or exts. I would tell it like it is if my fgu experience was as you say but full honesty fgu has been as solid for my games as fgc was and this is for the last few months now.

I've no worries that fgc support is ending, if that means more time devoted to fgu support, features and products all the better.

Edit...going back and reading other feedback ..yes my fgu takes a little to load initially but i have a ton of tokens anout 3 extensions and 2 3rd party mods.it clocks in at 2 "real" minutes . When its loaded though my session is good.

The preload time doesn't impact if ince its loaded it works fine. If it was slow DURING the session then I'd complain. But i load fgu 30 mins before the session starts and i go have dinner or something therefore it doesn't frustrate me since i dont sit and watch it load 90% of the time.

[ProfDogg]

If your FGU breaks, as you say, regularly..it might the ruleset you use perhaos mods or exts. I would tell it like it is if my fgu experience was as you say but full honesty fgu has been as solid for my games as fgc was and this is for the last few months now.

I've no worries that fgc support is ending, if that means more time devoted to fgu support, features and products all the better.

Edit...going back and reading other feedback ..yes my fgu takes a little to load initially but i have a ton of tokens anout 3 extensions and 2 3rd party mods.it clocks in at 2 "real" minutes . When its loaded though my session is good.

The preload time doesn't impact if ince its loaded it works fine. If it was slow DURING the session then I'd complain. But i load fgu 30 mins before the session starts and i go have dinner or something therefore it doesn't frustrate me since i dont sit and watch it load 90% of the time.

I don't use mods or extensions. It's about as Vanilla as it gets...

[ProfDogg]

SmiteWorks should consider having separate stores for FGG and FGU products. This would allow the consumers to choose which options they like. And if a particular ruleset developer doesn't want to do one or the other, so be it - that product is only good for one or the other. But from a profit standpoint, it also allows those of who do use both versions to potentially purchase double the product.

I base my choice of system for my games around my players' capabilities. Some are capable of handling FGU, some aren't. There are some days my FGU just freezes and I'm stuck till the resource need lessens. Generally the only players I have in my various campaigns that are those who can't use FGC are Mac users. FGC seems otherwise much more accessible for my players who can't afford better systems or have the knowledge to work around tech issues. A few of my players have various disabilities and FGC seems to not be as big as issue for their needs. I can't tell you why in particular because I've never asked but I do suspect it has to do with either lack of funding and/or technical knowledge.

Another option is to continue allowing locations like DrivethruRPG to market the FGC mods. I'm certain individual developers who prefer FGC would be happy to provide content that way.

[Jiminimonka]

SmiteWorks should consider having separate stores for FGG and FGU products. This would allow the consumers to choose which options they like. And if a particular ruleset developer doesn't want to do one or the other, so be it - that product is only good for one or the other. But from a profit standpoint, it also allows those of who do use both versions to potentially purchase double the product.

I base my choice of system for my games around my players' capabilities. Some are capable of handling FGU, some aren't. There are some days my FGU just freezes and I'm stuck till the resource need lessens. Generally the only players I have in my various campaigns that are those who can't use FGC are Mac users. FGC seems otherwise much more accessible for my players who can't afford better systems or have the knowledge to work around tech issues. A few of my players have various disabilities and FGC seems to not be as big as issue for their needs. I can't tell you why in particular because I've never asked but I do suspect it has to do with either lack of funding and/or technical knowledge.

Another option is to continue allowing locations like DrivethruRPG to market the FGC mods. I'm certain individual developers who prefer FGC would be happy to provide content that way.

Technically they already have 2 stores, and its a big resource hog. The entire point of Fantasy Grounds Unity was to enable the software to evolve away from the ancient code base of Classic, so the software could move onto a whole new level of software - the fact the back catalogue has been maintained so that all our purchases still work is already a big resource hog. This has been on the cards since FGU left early access.

Allowing rulesets and mods to be sold on DriveThruRPG would be another set of copyright loops to jump thru for devs and Smiteworks. Again the point of FGC being retired is to allow the small team of devs and community devs to have less work going forward, and improve features.

[Jiminimonka]

Oh and asking people to purchase the same thing twice... that was why the back catalogue is forward compatible with Unity. People complain about having to buy the 5e PHB when they have a physical copy already, you expect Smiteworks to ask them to buy it twice for the old and new version of FG?

[ProfDogg]

Allowing rulesets and mods to be sold on DriveThruRPG would be another set of copyright loops to jump thru for devs and Smiteworks. Again the point of FGC being retired is to allow the small team of devs and community devs to have less work going forward, and improve features.

I don't think there's any copyright issues to be concerned about because Drivethru already has some FG mods being sold (as does Steam). Just open up a bigger marketplace by allowing another company (Drivethru) to handle the FGC mods.

[ProfDogg]

Oh and asking people to purchase the same thing twice... that was why the back catalogue is forward compatible with Unity. People complain about having to buy the 5e PHB when they have a physical copy already, you expect Smiteworks to ask them to buy it twice for the old and new version of FG?

Let the consumers choose. Some people do, some people don't.

[LordEntrails]

I don't think there's any copyright issues to be concerned about because Drivethru already has some FG mods being sold (as does Steam). Just open up a bigger marketplace by allowing another company (Drivethru) to handle the FGC mods.
Actually they are mostly sold via DMsGuild which is a subsidiary of DriveThru. I believe their are one or two companies that have licenses to sell FG modules on the DriveThru directly, but those require specific license agreements. If not being sold via the DMsGuild agreement or a direct license agreement with SmiteWorks, then they are being sold in violation of copyright notices and should be brought to the attention of FG support directly.

As for consumers choosing, they have already done so by the vast majority (as defined by SmiteWorks) switching to FGU from FGC. SmiteWorks has apparently decided that it is no longer financially smart to continue the dual platform support.

Just like most established businesses, it's not about can you make money doing x, but can you make more money doing x versus y. Again, SW has decided that the best business use of their limited resources is to retire FGC and put all their resources on FGU. That decision may or may not fit into individual best interest, but I do think it is in the best interest of the FG community.

As always, I'm sure SW appreciates everyone's feedback and opinions.

[ChrisRevocateur]

Everything that works with FGC now will continue to work with it in perpetuity, it's just not getting anything new. I think that's really as much as we can ask for as consumers, anything beyond that would be their generosity.

[ProfDogg]

Actually they are mostly sold via DMsGuild which is a subsidiary of DriveThru. I believe their are one or two companies that have licenses to sell FG modules on the DriveThru directly, but those require specific license agreements. If not being sold via the DMsGuild agreement or a direct license agreement with SmiteWorks, then they are being sold in violation of copyright notices and should be brought to the attention of FG support directly.


Yep, but that's not a copyright "issue", that's just licensing. The rights can be licensed. Likewise Smiteworks could also just sell off fantasy grounds classic completely to another entity. It is a different product after all. It would be competition of course but the RPG industry actually thrives on business diversity.

[LordEntrails]

Likewise Smiteworks could also just sell off fantasy grounds classic completely to another entity. It is a different product after all. It would be competition of course but the RPG industry actually thrives on business diversity.
Sure, why don't you get some investors together and make them an offer? Doug's a reasonable guy.

But for some reason I don't think their is a pool of investors waiting for such an opportunity, but I wouldn't be upset to be wrong.

[Doswelk]

I don't think there's any copyright issues to be concerned about because Drivethru already has some FG mods being sold (as does Steam). Just open up a bigger marketplace by allowing another company (Drivethru) to handle the FGC mods.
What FGC mods?

There won't be any new mods, I won't be making them, no-one else will either, having to support both version of FGC/FGU is a pain, looking forward to not having to do, I have used FGC for 15 years, but still happy to see it going.

[Trenloe]

Likewise Smiteworks could also just sell off fantasy grounds classic completely to another entity. It is a different product after all. It would be competition of course but the RPG industry actually thrives on business diversity.
So, what would that other entity get if that happened? The new company would have to renegotiate all of the licenses. Have to maintain all of the DLC (if they could even afford to buy the rights to it initially). Develop on a 32-bit platform that can't work on recent non-Windows operating systems. I really don't see the logic here at all - if Smiteworks even entertained that possibility, as people would still associate "Fantasy Grounds" with Smiteworks. But, if it did happen, you'd probably be getting way less than what Smiteworks will be providing after new product support ends.

As has been said multiple times in this thread - FGC is not going away on June 24th. It just won't get any new features/functionality. If users of FGC are playing on old hardware that can't handle FGU (remember you can turn off FGU line-of-sight, lighting, etc. and turn down image quality/vsync settings to help with CPU/GPU load) then you can keep playing on FGC - you just won't be getting anything new. Stuff that works now will continue to work. If FGC is working fine for you right now (which I'm guessing it is as you want to keep using it) then it'll probably work fine into the future - just without new features/functionality. But you can keep playing with FGC. At some point users will have to upgrade their hardware - this is just a fact of life when using computers - it has to happen at some point, or you end up running unsupported operating systems, unsupported software all round.

[ProfDogg]

At some point users will have to upgrade their hardware - this is just a fact of life when using computers - it has to happen at some point, or you end up running unsupported operating systems, unsupported software all round.

Oh, I know it's a smaller market but I live in a region where VHS tapes and cassettes still get traded. When the last Blockbuster closed out here, a bunch of small mom-and-pop video stores and second-hand electronics stores sprang up. By no means are they reaping the riches from the community but they obviously subsist well enough to stick around. And they have a very loyal customer base.

[johnecc]

So why would someone invest likely millions of dollars, not just for the software but also all the game licenses, if it is a smaller market, as you say, and likely to decrease over time.

[ProfDogg]

So why would someone invest likely millions of dollars, not just for the software but also all the game licenses, if it is a smaller market, as you say, and likely to decrease over time.

I suspect the value is considerably less than a million. It would obviously need to be valued appropriately. And I dont know if it would depreciate. Less advanced VTTs are still going strong. I know one that has folded but the others all have their niche markets.

[ddavison]

Let's not spend too much time building hypothetical business cases here. That could derail the thread more than it has already. We are not going to sell off FG Classic.

[Trenloe]

Whereas it's an interesting fringe discussion, I very much doubt that:
1) SmiteWorks would want to offload the FGC rights to anyone else. EDIT: I see Doug has confirmed this.
2) Anyone else would make it worthwhile for SmiteWorks to even consider it.

FGC isn't going away right now. It'll keep going for a while, and if the demand is there I'm sure that could be quite a while.

FGU is the next version of Fantasy Grounds - and all official FGC products work in FGU. There's things you can do to make FGU work OK on older hardware, if you're careful - just like you would have to be with FGC (e.g. don't load lots of modules, don't load massive maps, etc., etc.) - with FGU specific options to tune graphical performance, and you can turn off light and/or LoS if they're causing issues (which will still give you more functional mapping).

I recommend that people who are on the fence, or have the impression that FGC is just going to vanish (which it isn't), give FGU a go. There's a good upgrade offer on now - if it doesn't work well for you (give it a proper go, come to the forums with issues, etc.) you can get a no questions asked refund within 30 days and can go back to using FGC (yes, even after June 24th - because it's not going away on June 24th).

[ProfDogg]

Let's not spend too much time building hypothetical business cases here. That could derail the thread more than it has already. We are not going to sell off FG Classic.

surreptitiously puts the piggy-bank back on the shelf...

;)

[Alfie Lord Noakes]

I have both versions. If I want to use Classic and need someone to download the 'Free' software, will this always be available or should I download a copy of this, so I can provide the players with it?
Also, will the Free version be 'up to date' with the final version of the Classic software?

[Zacchaeus]

There is only one version of the client - only the license type changes - so the demo is the client and therefore the same version as any licensed client.

As noted in the first post Classic will still be available but will not get any updates after the cut off date.

[deer_buster]

There is only one version of the client - only the license type changes - so the demo is the client and therefore the same version as any licensed client.

As noted in the first post Classic will still be available but will not get any updates after the cut off date.

I think you misunderstood what they were asking.

1) Will the FGC client still remain available for downloading (for any reason, may need to reinstall or install on a new computer)?
2) Will that new and reinstalled client installations be able to get the final update as it set on 24-JUN-2021?

[Zacchaeus]

I think you misunderstood what they were asking.

1) Will the FGC client still remain available for downloading (for any reason, may need to reinstall or install on a new computer)?
2) Will that new and reinstalled client installations be able to get the final update as it set on 24-JUN-2021?

I thought that was the questions I answered. At any rate, yes to both.

[Alfie Lord Noakes]

Thanks - much appreciated.

[lostsanityreturned]

Exceedingly good move.

Still grumpy that the actions tab is broken for mid-high level play in unity currently with god awful performance. But having one product to focus on gives me more confidence that it will actually be fixed at some point in time.

[*Neuro*]

I agree, I have a party of 16th level, people and sometimes is laggy in the actions tab. Performance now should be the first thing to improve.

[Jiminimonka]

I agree, I have a party of 16th level, people and sometimes is laggy in the actions tab. Performance now should be the first thing to improve.

I would have killed them all by now. Level 16!!!!!!!

[Rhel]

I'm just hearing about this now– I've been doing all of my updates through the program itself – and only because FG is having some type of sale. $150 is kind of steep at this time – I know I'm not the only one who has been out of work this last year and 1/2. And yes, I know that that's at half price.

[ddavison]

I'm just hearing about this now– I've been doing all of my updates through the program itself – and only because FG is having some type of sale. $150 is kind of steep at this time – I know I'm not the only one who has been out of work this last year and 1/2. And yes, I know that that's at half price.

You can keep using FG Classic after this date. You won't be able to buy new modules for FGC after this date, but this is probably not a main concern for you at the moment if you are out of work. The upgrade price for you would be $75 with the upgrade discount, not $150. We plan to run the upgrade discount for a while longer, so hopefully that will still be available when you are in a better position financially. In the meantime, you can keep playing on FG Classic.

[ChrisRevocateur]

You can keep using FG Classic after this date. You won't be able to buy new modules for FGC after this date, but this is probably not a main concern for you at the moment if you are out of work. The upgrade price for you would be $75 with the upgrade discount, not $150. We plan to run the upgrade discount for a while longer, so hopefully that will still be available when you are in a better position financially. In the meantime, you can keep playing on FG Classic.

Wait, does this mean if I buy something AFTER the 24th that DID work with classic, I won't get the classic version?

[Rhel]

The upgrade price for you would be $75 with the upgrade discount, not $150. We plan to run the upgrade discount for a while longer, so hopefully that will still be available when you are in a better position financially. In the meantime, you can keep playing on FG Classic.

$75 is a much better option. That I can handle. I just don't see it available to me.

[BaneTBC]

They are talking about any new content that gets released, like Into the Feywild for instance, would not be looked at being released for Classic. Anything that is in place right now, they wouldn't go out of their way to disable (why would they remove a revenue stream for work they have already performed), so should still be purchasable and work with FGC. The nice part, though, is all of that content has been setup to work with FGU so you're future proofed to some degree.

[Fear Grounds]

$75 is a much better option. That I can handle. I just don't see it available to me.

You won't see the price change until you put it in your cart and go to purchase it.

[Rhel]

Okay, thanks.

[ChrisRevocateur]

They are talking about any new content that gets released, like Into the Feywild for instance, would not be looked at being released for Classic. Anything that is in place right now, they wouldn't go out of their way to disable (why would they remove a revenue stream for work they have already performed), so should still be purchasable and work with FGC. The nice part, though, is all of that content has been setup to work with FGU so you're future proofed to some degree.

I would think you're correct here, that's what seems logical to me, it's just the specific wording "You won't be able to buy new modules for FGC after this date" that has me questioning. Not "no new modules will be added," but that you won't be able to BUY (and new in this context could mean "new to me").

Again, I think you're probably correct, I just wanted to make sure.

[Fear Grounds]

Anything that is currently released and running on classic will still continue to work. If you purchase something already released, that currently works for classic it will work even if you purchase after the cutoff date.

If you purchase a new release that was made after the cutoff date, that product will not work in classic.

[ddavison]

Anything that is currently released and running on classic will still continue to work. If you purchase something already released, that currently works for classic it will work even if you purchase after the cutoff date.

If you purchase a new release that was made after the cutoff date, that product will not work in classic.

That is correct. Into the Feywild, for instance, won't have an FGC version. Anything already released that worked with FGC before June 24, will continue to work with FGC after June 24. It won't get any updates, errata, or any other changes though beyond that point.

[Jiminimonka]

All the stuff that works in Classic will continue to, but new products won't be made compatible with Classic after the 24th. So only stuff made before the 24th will still support Classic and Unity.

[readymeal]

That is correct. Into the Feywild, for instance, won't have an FGC version. Anything already released that worked with FGC before June 24, will continue to work with FGC after June 24. It won't get any updates, errata, or any other changes though beyond that point.


All the stuff that works in Classic will continue to, but new products won't be made compatible with Classic after the 24th. So only stuff made before the 24th will still support Classic and Unity.

Not really true IMO,

I have been working on some conversions over the last few months using FGC and will finish their development in it. By the time i submit them and they are reviewed, it might take months before they show up in the FG shop. I don t see why they would not work with FGC by then unless James purposely reconvert them for FGU of course.

However if i decide to make some updates of any of the module i already converted in the shop with FGU then they might not work for FGC anymore...

Can someone confirm any of this?

[Trenloe]

Not really true IMO,

I have been working on some conversions over the last few months using FGC and will finish their development in it. By the time i submit them and they are reviewed, it might take months before they show up in the FG shop. I don t see why they would not work with FGC by then unless James purposely reconvert them for FGU of course.

However if i decide to make some updates of any of the module i already converted in the shop with FGU then they might not work for FGC anymore...

Can someone confirm any of this?
There will be nothing new for FGC released by SmiteWorks after June 24th - be it new functionality to existing products or completely new products. This has been re-iterated throughout this thread and was also mentioned in the Developer Newsletter on June 4th (which I assume you receive).

If you have any concerns or issues then I suggest you raise them with your usual SmiteWorks contact - I assume James.

[readymeal]

There will be nothing new for FGC released by SmiteWorks after June 24th - be it new functionality to existing products or completely new products. This has been re-iterated throughout this thread and was also mentioned in the Developer Newsletter on June 4th (which I assume you receive).

If you have any concerns or issues then I suggest you raise them with your usual SmiteWorks contact - I assume James.

I don t think you understood my question, Let me rephrase that:

why would a module converted with FGC not be compatible with FGC after the 24th of June? Unless i missed an e mail from James or other staff at SW telling me to convert with FGU only.

[damned]

It may or may not work with FGC - but the updater wont download it and install it for FGC.

[readymeal]

It may or may not work with FGC - but the updater wont download it and install it for FGC.

Thx mate, that s a lot clearer.

[damned]

No wukkas mate!

[CaptJack2883]

Exceedingly good move.

Still grumpy that the actions tab is broken for mid-high level play in unity currently with god awful performance. But having one product to focus on gives me more confidence that it will actually be fixed at some point in time.

My sister's group noticed this with 5e once we got past about level 12 or so. Our solution was that upon opening the actions tab, if you minimize the spell sections you aren't using, it frees up performance quite a bit.

[Trenloe]

I don t think you understood my question, Let me rephrase that:

why would a module converted with FGC not be compatible with FGC after the 24th of June? Unless i missed an e mail from James or other staff at SW telling me to convert with FGU only.
Ah, so you wanted a technical reason, rather than what functionally will happen. Glad @damned gave you the answer you were looking for. Either way, just in case others reading this aren't clear on this, my statement is 100% accurate and is what will functionally happen after June 24th.

[Alfie Lord Noakes]

Wow - gently there. I REALLY like FG and there are 'many' players who use it now because of me. However, your comment here, may well come over as a little harsh. To reference that "... this is probably not a main concern for you at the moment if you are out of work.", is actually rubbish. In work or out of work is not an issue - do you think that just because a person is out of work would not mean for example, that someone might buy them a new module as a gift??

In truth, I understand why you are making the change to Unity - let's be honest, it is likely not 'all' about functionality, it is a lot about money. And that's fine - you are doing a great job and deserve to be rewarded for the excellent work you do. I don't have a problem, but I don't need or want the changes you are making at all - I have both versions, but rarely use Unity. Classic is still better in many ways.

Please ensure that even without updates, you keep classic functioning. I am concerned that none of the new modules will fucntion under Classic - that might in the future, become a game changer for me, depending on how quickly the hassles of unity are sorted out.

[damned]

The Classic game engine will not run on Mac, it's support on Linux is poor, and it does not do 64bit Windows well at all.

It is a technical issue first and foremost.

Microsoft doesn't support the hundreds of millions of Win7 installations out there any more. Technology is always running into obsolescence.

Despite all the magic users around Classic is on life support only. There is no cure for the limitations in the game engine.

[damned]

The comment about out of work was in reference to not spending money that you don't have. There was nothing snide or demeaning in the comment.

Classic will work as long as the group is running the right operating systems and as long as no OS updates break it on those.

[Jiminimonka]

Wow - gently there. I REALLY like FG and there are 'many' players who use it now because of me. However, your comment here, may well come over as a little harsh. To reference that "... this is probably not a main concern for you at the moment if you are out of work.", is actually rubbish. In work or out of work is not an issue - do you think that just because a person is out of work would not mean for example, that someone might buy them a new module as a gift??

In truth, I understand why you are making the change to Unity - let's be honest, it is likely not 'all' about functionality, it is a lot about money. And that's fine - you are doing a great job and deserve to be rewarded for the excellent work you do. I don't have a problem, but I don't need or want the changes you are making at all - I have both versions, but rarely use Unity. Classic is still better in many ways.

Please ensure that even without updates, you keep classic functioning. I am concerned that none of the new modules will fucntion under Classic - that might in the future, become a game changer for me, depending on how quickly the hassles of unity are sorted out.

Its going to go. Eventually. Sooner the better in my opinion.

Not sure how to interpret some of your post so I won't bother trying.

[Valyar]

depending on how quickly the hassles of unity are sorted out.
It seems you operate with old information and I hope you are not spreading misinformation. Unity is stable and the "hassles" are no more. There has been major release with dynamic lights and other features that are awesome. Minor bugs or quirks are ironed out very fast and if you look the changelogs - they are close to none.

[Alfie Lord Noakes]

OK - thanks for your opinion - noted.

[spoonhead]

OK - thanks for your opinion - noted.

Hmmmm.

[Jiminimonka]

Hmmmm.

Troll in the dungeon! Harry Potter.

[Trenloe]

Troll in the dungeon! Harry Potter.
Please keep this thread on topic. If you don't have anything to contribute, please don't. Thank you.

[Alfie Lord Noakes]

I know you have walked the edge of 'not' accusing me, so please do not do so. The misinform is to give information that is knowingly or unknowingly incorrect. Misinformation happens all the time sadly - and most of the time, it is not (I think) unintentional.
However, I am assuming the Unity does have glitches and is not fully stable... unless it has changed since last Sunday when I last played. So it may be fine for you, but it is not for me, and all I can do, is comment if needed, on my own experience, since I do not have 'your' experience.

I have already said that I like the software, support the software and Smiteworks. However, I am not blinkered - if it still needs things sorted as far as I can see, that that is my view, based on my first-hand evidence. I do not need a passive-aggressive threat - it simply will not work on me, but it does you and this forum no credit, to try to be that way.

[Trenloe]

However, I am assuming the Unity does have glitches and is not fully stable... unless it has changed since last Sunday when I last played. So it may be fine for you, but it is not for me, and all I can do, is comment if needed, on my own experience, since I do not have 'your' experience.
Please report any issues you have in the House of Healing - Unity sub forum.

The fact of the matter, like it or not, is that come June 24th there will not be any new updates/products for Fantasy Grounds Classic. If you want to get updates and access to new products, you'll need to use FG Unity. If you have issues with FG Unity, the best approach is to report them in the House of Healing - Unity sub forum so the devs are made aware and can provide feedback and fixes as needed. This will help to make FG Unity better for you and others.

[Alfie Lord Noakes]

Agreed.

[LordEntrails]

In truth, I understand why you are making the change to Unity - let's be honest, it is likely not 'all' about functionality, it is a lot about money. And that's fine - you are doing a great job and deserve to be rewarded for the excellent work you do.
Please understand, most everyone posting in this thread, and I think everyone responding to you, do not work for or represent SmiteWorks (the company that produces FG). Only those people with an actual "SmiteWorks" tag work for the company, the rest of us are just users like you.

[Moon Wizard]

And on that note. I think enough ground has been covered on this thread to clearly rehash the original post many times over. Closing the thread.

Regards,
JPG