Occluder question re: windows and terrain

[Seems]

I've looked at various videos, including the great overviews by Philip, and have experimented with the occluders but can't figure out this one aspect. Is it possible to combine terrain occluders with windows?

Here's why. I have a crenellated castle wall where creatures ambushing the party will be mostly concealed behind the parapet. But, most of the party can fly, so if one of them approaches the wall from above I would like to have it marked with terrain so I can turn it off if necessary. I tried inserting windows in the terrain so both the ambushers and party can look in an out depending on the angle, but I can't get the windows to work.

I don't know if I'm doing this the wrong way or if I'm just trying to combine incompatible occluders.

Thanks!

[Zacchaeus]

You will have a conflict if you add those two occulders since one can block movement and the other can't and one doesn't block LoS and the other does. You'll always have issues trying to emulate a 3D environment on a 2D map. You are probably best with terrain occluders since you can switch those on and off (you can switch windows on and off too but that means a token can move through them - it doesn't change the LoS). This will mean that when switched off all tokens will see through them since you can't switch them off for just one token.

[Seems]

Thanks, I suspected as much. I can make it work. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something since it's my first attempt.

[Darkforger]

Did you ever have any success? I'm puzzling on how to implement something pretty standard in a fantasy setting. Hero scales the wall and can now see over it and all around. It should be easy, right? Either I'm too much of a noob and missing something or this is a serious shortcoming. ?

[LordEntrails]

Did you ever have any success? I'm puzzling on how to implement something pretty standard in a fantasy setting. Hero scales the wall and can now see over it and all around. It should be easy, right? Either I'm too much of a noob and missing something or this is a serious shortcoming. ?
If you give us a screen shot of a map and a couple of tokens and descriptions of what you want the visibility to be, we can give you some good advice. But, what you provided is pretty vague.

I'll say in short something can probably work, but it just depends on the details.

[Darkforger]

If you give us a screen shot of a map and a couple of tokens and descriptions of what you want the visibility to be, we can give you some good advice. But, what you provided is pretty vague.

I'll say in short something can probably work, but it just depends on the details.

If what I’m doing doesn’t work, I’ll let you know. Thanks for reaching out. 😅

[jwatmough]

The simplest way to achieve this, if I understand it correctly, is to include the entire wall inside a terrain occluder element. The Players will see the wall from the outside but not through it, and once within the confines of the terrain element, they can see out without obstruction.

[Darkforger]

The simplest way to achieve this, if I understand it correctly, is to include the entire wall inside a terrain occluder element. The Players will see the wall from the outside but not through it, and once within the confines of the terrain element, they can see out without obstruction.

Hi, thanks for your comment. ☺️

I think I tried a terrain occlusion but found that although players could not see through the wall, they could walk through it. Maybe that’s something particular to the map I imported. What I ended up doing instead was to line the inside of every parapet or tower for which elevation would allow LOS with a toggleable wall. This would allow the wall to be turn off when a character was up there so they could then see (I didn’t check if that would allow everyone on the map to see.. I suppose it would 😒). This didn’t prevent the player from passing through the wall when the toggle was off however, so i had to line the outside of every wall, tower, etc with an untoggleable window. That way the wall can be seen from below, all around from above but not passable. There’s probably an easier, faster way to do it though 😂.

[Darkforger]

With my luck, one of my players will want to scale the wall. ��

[jwatmough]

That is correct the terrain option does not prevent movement; You can layer occluder types to get the desired results of how different occluders interact with players. For example, in this case, one could use terrain and then a window in the same location. The window occluder type will prevent movement but not vision and the terrain will prevent vision on the opposite side but not movement. Thus creating the desired movement restriction with the terrain vision element. As you suggested though there are always going to be multiple ways to approach and solve all of these situations, so experiment and have fun.

[Darkforger]

That is correct the terrain option does not prevent movement; You can layer occluder types to get the desired results of how different occluders interact with players. For example, in this case, one could use terrain and then a window in the same location. The window occluder type will prevent movement but not vision and the terrain will prevent vision on the opposite side but not movement. Thus creating the desired movement restriction with the terrain vision element. As you suggested though there are always going to be multiple ways to approach and solve all of these situations, so experiment and have fun.

I’ll try this and see if it works better. Definitely sounds faster. ��. Thx!

[Darkforger]

Hi again.

Looks like I have another question related to this. The occlusions I've placed have been working properly everywhere on my map except for one section of wall where a large square box pops up instead of within the defined area of the occlusion. I've tried deleting and remaking all nearby occlusions and reloading the map. Big square blob persists. Anyone seen this problem?58654

[LordEntrails]

Can you screen shot your image panel with LOS selected?

[pindercarl]

Hi again.

Looks like I have another question related to this. The occlusions I've placed have been working properly everywhere on my map except for one section of wall where a large square box pops up instead of within the defined area of the occlusion. I've tried deleting and remaking all nearby occlusions and reloading the map. Big square blob persists. Anyone seen this problem?58654

The hover area for toggleable occluders (e.g. doors, windows, etc.) is defined by the closed shape of the occluder. In the case of secret doors, the rectangular bounds of the occluder are used. It looks like you are using a long diagonal secret door. There are probably better ways to handle this case and I'll take a look for the next release.

[Darkforger]

The hover area for toggleable occluders (e.g. doors, windows, etc.) is defined by the closed shape of the occluder. In the case of secret doors, the rectangular bounds of the occluder are used. It looks like you are using a long diagonal secret door. There are probably better ways to handle this case and I'll take a look for the next release.

Hm. I have other “long diagonal secret doors” for which this doesn’t happen. I’ll post a pic of the LOS next time i have a moment. Thx for input. ☺️

[Darkforger]

Can you screen shot your image panel with LOS selected?


Hi.. the affected portion of wall is about the middle of the image. I might ditch this map. It's a lag-fest. I hadn't realized how badly LOS info affects gameplay on a very large map. I need another solution that eats less data maybe. With that aim, I started LOS detail on another map using only lines centered about the middle of each castle wall. A lot less laggy but covered with occlusion blobs, so I'm definitely using the tool wrong.. ?

58670

[LordEntrails]

Hi.. the affected portion of wall is about the middle of the image. I might ditch this map. It's a lag-fest. I hadn't realized how badly LOS info affects gameplay on a very large map. I need another solution that eats less data maybe. With that aim, I started LOS detail on another map using only lines centered about the middle of each castle wall. A lot less laggy but covered with occlusion blobs, so I'm definitely using the tool wrong.. ?

58670

Honestly? Don't get caught up in trying to make a perfect LOS solution. Yes I know, on the computer we can do a lot more than in person on a table top. But are you really worried about a player moving on top of a wall when they shouldn't? Aren't you playing with people who have the attitude that they only want to do what they should be doing? Personally I would never worry about a player moving where they shouldn't. Just use terrain for the tops of the walls. Yes it means the players can see the top of the wall when they are down below, but *eh* doesn't bother me. Or use an illusionary wall so they can't see but can move there. Keep it simple.

But whatever you chose, reduce the number of nodes. See all that junk in the top right corner? All those tiny segments? Get rid of them. They will cause lag.

[Darkforger]

Honestly? Don't get caught up in trying to make a perfect LOS solution. Yes I know, on the computer we can do a lot more than in person on a table top. But are you really worried about a player moving on top of a wall when they shouldn't? Aren't you playing with people who have the attitude that they only want to do what they should be doing? Personally I would never worry about a player moving where they shouldn't. Just use terrain for the tops of the walls. Yes it means the players can see the top of the wall when they are down below, but *eh* doesn't bother me. Or use an illusionary wall so they can't see but can move there. Keep it simple.

But whatever you chose, reduce the number of nodes. See all that junk in the top right corner? All those tiny segments? Get rid of them. They will cause lag.


Yeah, I hear ya... if some dufus wants to walk through trees, let him ;)

Yeah on top of all the occlusions the map is very large, so I think it's a complete redo... maybe I'll trim down the occlusions and use it as an area map and create smaller maps for the "action" at specific areas. Still mystified by the occlusion blobs but probably not serious... just something I was bewildered by. Thx all :)

D