Using vision to limit token view

[Kissa]

I have been running a campaign where players are on the area where vision is limited (Eberron: Mourning).
With new lighting system I had an idea to limit their view and you can do this by making an effect (eg. VISION: 50). This works with lights but darkvision seems to override this and and tokens can see outside of intended vision area if their darkvision range is bigger.

Anyone know how to make this work?

[Zacchaeus]

You'd need to also reduce the darkvision length to 50 as well.

And welcome to FG.

[Griogre]

I had the same problem last night, with a jungle setting. I found you have to go onto the character sheet and delete the senses data. I had thought the combat tracker was supposed to override the senses on the character sheet but I guess not.

Since I was planning on switching back and forth for the next couple of encounters I just made a "VISION: 60 darkvision" effect and dropped it on the characters with darkvision and turned it off and then added "VISION: 20 truesight". I found that despite what the wiki says - that VISION: (in 5E anyways) always has to have a type, ie "VISION: 10" doesn't work.

In the pic Dexter has 20' vision with darkvision turned off and the Senses data on the character sheet deleted.

[Kissa]

You'd need to also reduce the darkvision length to 50 as well.

What I want to do is to use VISION-command as top-level command that overrides everything (darkvision, truevision etc.) so that every other vision still works inside that range that I have determined but tokens can't see outside of that range. Currently this is not possible and using the method defined by Griogre also is not what I am looking.

Situation in my campaign is that one of the characters has Superior Darkvision (120' range) while some others have normal darkvision (60' range). Visibility during session is (4d4*10') so typically above 60' but under 120'. So I want to limit that one character to maximum range and others to have that normal darkvision range. Complicated I know, but if the VISION-command would override every other vision, then it would work just by giving every token vision range with that command.

[LordEntrails]

I understand what you want to do, but FG doesn't do it the way you want. So you will need to work within the limits of FG, and therefore each session you will need to reduce the individual senses for each character based upon your roll. Of course you can add it to the wish list, but it's a pretty one-off case that seems pretty unique to you. But I might be wrong and it will get lots of votes.

[Risto]

So under the current way of implementing vision "stacking" and ranges, you can't impose general conditions that would reduce overall visiblity, such as fog, smoke, fumes, rain, blizzard, sandstorm etc ... but instead, we would need to manually reduce all VISION: <range> <type> definitions exceeding a limit on all PCs and NPCs, and then edit them back once the situation passes.

"VISION: 10" effect and Lantern results in brightly lit vision of 10 feet
"VISION: 10" and "VISION: 60 darkvision" effects together results in vision of 60 feet (most of it in black and white)

[LordEntrails]

Yes that's how I understand it currently.

I wonder about having effects that subtract vision distances, like "Vision: -10" or "Vision:-30 darkvision"?

[Griogre]

I think a VISIONMAX command might be something that could be added in the future. I'm still have the impression that combat tracker effects were supposed to override the senses on the character sheet but I can't find why I thought that.

[Risto]

"Vision: 20" and Lantern, seems to work ok - restricting visibility to 20

47034

Add "Vision: 60 darkvision" from character sheet into this, and "Vision: 20" get's kind of overruled.

[Kelrugem]

Are you sure? For me VISION with just a number doesn't do anything. (as Griogre also mentioned)

[Risto]

Yup, see attached images

1 - with default lantern in a dark map
2 - add "Vision: 20" effect to CT

47036
47037

[Kelrugem]

Thanks :) But that is certainly not what I see for some reason :D Which ruleset? Do you use any extensions? And are you maybe on the test server?

[Griogre]

I did have VISION: 20 work on an NPC for a bit in my Friday game that had no other vision on the NPC sheet. But it quit working after a bit, and I'm not sure why though I was curious and went and looked at the NPC sheet and noticed it had no vision so I did add some and then took it off again since I wanted to control vision.

I'm on live and 5E ruleset.

I just tried VISION: 20 again and I can't get it to work on either an NPC or PC. I'm not sure what's going on there might be a bug in here somewhere. I know there seems to be a problem with Character sheet effects when dropped on the tracker but this doesn't seem to be the same thing.

[Moon Wizard]

"VISION: #" limits standard vision to the specified number. It does not apply to special vision types, such as darkvision.

Regards,
JPG

[Kelrugem]

"VISION: #" limits standard vision to the specified number. It does not apply to special vision types, such as darkvision.

Regards,
JPG

Good to know, thanks :) but then there seems to be a bug, since a vision effect with just a number does not do anything on my side on PCs (without extensions, tested in 3.5e, 5e and CoreRPG); seemingly similar bug for NPCs by Griogre's report above. I have to go to bed now, but I try to open a thread as a bug report with steps to reproduce it (if I do not forget it :D)

[Moon Wizard]

It's working for me. (See video made using CoreRPG)

Regards,
JPG

[Griogre]

Hmm, feels like I'm missing a step or not really understanding the interaction between preset lights and vision. CoreRules, I'm using torch though instead of a hexcode.

First has torch on and vision off then I turn on Vision in the second image and don't see any difference. This is what I observed in 5E as well.

Edit: I found the issue I forgot to click on the Token... :p Works fine then.

[Griogre]

OK so I went back into 5E and got this to work. Though I am not sure why The CoreRules example above didn't work. The source of my confusion is that Vision + a number is a limiter only for additive lights and only if the creature has an additive light source. You can't use it alone, like you can VISION: # type.

Edit: Added image demo the correct useage.

[Kelrugem]

It's working for me. (See video made using CoreRPG)

Regards,
JPG


OK so I went back into 5E and got this to work. Though I am not sure why The CoreRules example above didn't work. The source of my confusion is that Vision + a number is a limiter only for additive lights and only if the creature has an additive light source. You can't use it alone, like you can VISION: # type.

Edit: Added image demo the correct useage.

aaah, thanks, one needs a light! Now I see it (pun intended) :D Yeah, I always tried to limit other VISION effects with the a VISION: # effect, not seeing that the screenshots were about a combination with lights on the map or token. So, it looks like that the code actually uses the biggest of all VISION effects (when it is about the distance of view), and then either applies a special vision like darkvision or the ability to see lights up to a range (the vision effect with just a number) :) But when there are no lights, then the normal vision does not show anything. Which makes sense after a second thought, now I understand, I think :)

EDIT: And if one has two VISION effects, one with just a number and one with darkvision for example, then one can also just see lights up to the maximum of both ranges, not beyond; if one deactivates the VISION: # one, then one can see beyond the range again (in case there is light of course) :) Interesting, I didn't know that the VISION: # has that feature :)