Can't rename anything in the layer stack

[Geometer]

FG Unity, Curse of Strahd 5e, all extensions and modules disabled, v4.1.2 up to date

As of this morning I am unable to rename layers or folders in the layer stack. Double clicking has no effect.

[Geometer]

Ignore. It's all working again.

[Geometer]

It's stopped working again. Seems to be intermittent, possibly campaign-specific.

[Moon Wizard]

The only thing I can think of is whether the layers are locked; or whether one of the data panel modes isn't allowing editing.

Any more information you can figure out on what triggers the issue would be appreciated; since I wasn't able to reproduce.

Regards,
JPG

[Geometer]

The only thing I can think of is whether the layers are locked; or whether one of the data panel modes isn't allowing editing.

Any more information you can figure out on what triggers the issue would be appreciated; since I wasn't able to reproduce.

Regards,
JPG

It's not locked layers, I first noticed it when I wanted to name a new folder. I'll check the panel modes and come back if I pin anything down. Cheers.

[Geometer]

I think I've narrowed it down. It seems to be something to do with the bug that opens every folder in the layer stack when a map is opened for the first time after launch. If all the folders are open, it won't edit. If either the topmost folder in the stack or the bottom-most folder are closed, it will edit. If one folder from mid-stack is closed it has no effect but if two are closed it will edit. I thought this bug was going to be fixed in the last release?

[Moon Wizard]

I don't remember it being in the release notes; nor promising any specific feature. Collapsing the folders on image panel when opened is currently a feature request in our system that may be looked at eventually.

If you can provide the exact steps that uncover the editing issue (or a sample campaign with an image that has the issue), then I can get @cpinder to look at as a bug.

Regards,
JPG

[Geometer]

I don't remember it being in the release notes; nor promising any specific feature. Collapsing the folders on image panel when opened is currently a feature request in our system that may be looked at eventually.

It was discussed in this thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?65656-FGU-Mapping-Tools-Multiple-LOS&p=575373#post575373

Quote:
This is a confirmed bug with an open trouble ticket. It will be rectified in an upcoming release. I'll go ahead and delete the Idea Informer entry so people don't get confused.

"Eventually" is disappointing. It's turning into a basic "quality of life" issue for me. The map I'm currently working on has 230+ layers organised into 6 folders and 4 sub-folders; having to scroll through the stack closing them all down before I can start navigating through them is a real pain. I would have thought that maintaining the "end state" between sessions was basic functionality rather than an optional extra.


If you can provide the exact steps that uncover the editing issue (or a sample campaign with an image that has the issue), then I can get @cpinder to look at as a bug.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Launch Curse of Strahd
2. Spend a few days drawing a detailed map with lots of layers organised into folders
3. Shut down, relaunch, open the map, attempt to edit without closing folders.

I've put the campaign onto Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d1w6w4qe7n7mhfi/AABdTcRr54WA2aK7wwbEEbnYa?dl=0

Another issue has arisen: While transferring the campaign folder to Dropbox I appear to have deleted it from Fantasy Grounds. Or rather, it is present in the campaigns folder but doesn't show up on the launch screen (FG 54) so unable to launch. No idea what happened there, but I'm supposed to be running the game tomorrow and prepping today so I need it back asap. Any thoughts?

[Geometer]

Another issue has arisen: While transferring the campaign folder to Dropbox I appear to have deleted it from Fantasy Grounds. Or rather, it is present in the campaigns folder but doesn't show up on the launch screen (FG 54) so unable to launch. No idea what happened there, but I'm supposed to be running the game tomorrow and prepping today so I need it back asap. Any thoughts?
Ignore, I've sorted it (I think)

[LordEntrails]

Sounds to me like you are using FGU mapping to a level that most folks would never think to try. Doesn't mean it shouldn't work for your use case, but I suspect being an edge case may mean it doesn't get addressed as quickly as one might hope. As I'm sure you are aware, ther are lots of posts from different users all wanting a different improvement or fix. Something has to wait :(

[Geometer]

Sounds to me like you are using FGU mapping to a level that most folks would never think to try. Doesn't mean it shouldn't work for your use case, but I suspect being an edge case may mean it doesn't get addressed as quickly as one might hope. As I'm sure you are aware, there are lots of posts from different users all wanting a different improvement or fix. Something has to wait :(

Fair comment, and I take your point. I hope I'm not asking for miracles. However, I would question whether it is really as much of an "edge case" as you suggest. The layer stack is the hub of the map-maker; as I've learned to my cost, keeping it well organised is essential to the workflow. Anything that goes wrong there can have an impact on the map itself, even simple ones, and that effect may not immediately be apparent. Just this morning I somehow managed to delete a folder containing 30-40 layers and didn't realise it for half an hour or so because I was working in Player View and the folder was out of view at the bottom of the stack. Don't ask me how I did it, I honestly don't know. Fortunately its not difficult to re-do, just a chore.

One of the smaller, but surprisingly satisfying, pleasures of working in Fantasy Grounds is not having to save everything at the end of a session; you can just shutdown and restart the next day, confident in the knowledge that everything will be just how you left it the day before. Everything, that is, except the layer stack. From a user point of view this is an inconsistency; an anomaly, a minor but persistent irritation, like having a little stone in your shoe that can be ignored until it reminds you of its presence at the most inconvenient moment. It's not the only bug in the stack but it's certainly the most consistently annoying. Nevertheless, I can live with it if I have to.


Sounds to me like you are using FGU mapping to a level that most folks would never think to try.

Really? You surprise me. It's true that I'm greatly enamoured of the map-maker - it's the pearl in the Fantasy Grounds oyster, as far as I'm concerned - and it's true that I'm a bit of a perfectionist when maps are involved; but I'm only using the tools I've been given, and I find it hard to believe I'm the only one testing these tools to their limits. If I am, I doubt if I will be for long.

[Jiminimonka]

I agree with Geometer. The folders should remember their state between sessions. It's a PITA when working with a complex map. I think the quoted Moon Wizard post was a reply to me in another thread.

[Trenloe]

"Eventually" is disappointing.
I'm not sure how you jumped to "eventually" from "This is a confirmed bug with an open trouble ticket. It will be rectified in an upcoming release." Companies that develop computer software have to prioritise fixing defects based on a number of factors - impact (both the bug itself and impact of fixing it), design direction, when specific functionality will be worked on (i.e. fix a bunch of defect in a certain area all at once), and many other issues to be taken into account. It's been recognised as an issue, and will be fixed in an upcoming release - realistically, I don't think anyone can expect more from any software development company. If you're expecting any software company to drop everything else and fix an issues that only a handful of people are experiencing, based off reports on the forums, (as annoying at it might be), then I think you'll be disappointed with any software company. On the positive side, SmiteWorks release updates across a number of products every week - the rate at which they provide updates and fixes is right up there with much bigger companies. Given all of this, maybe look at "It will be rectified in an upcoming release" more in the realms of "sooner rather than later" instead of "eventually"... :)

[Geometer]

I'm not sure how you jumped to "eventually" from "This is a confirmed bug with an open trouble ticket. It will be rectified in an upcoming release."

I didn't make that jump, I was responding to Moon Wizard's comment (my emphasis):

Collapsing the folders on image panel when opened is currently a feature request in our system that may be looked at eventually.

I appreciate that it wasn't Moon Wizard who gave me the original assurance, but nevertheless the retreat from "upcoming release" to "eventually" is disappointing.

I sincerely apologise if I've crossed any boundaries; this is uncharted territory for me, this esoteric world of online gaming and direct contact with developers, and I'm still working out what is a reasonable expectation and what isn't. Clearly my initial assumption that "upcoming release" referred to the forthcoming release of v4.1 was incorrect; but under the circumstances, given all the discussion that release was generating at the time, I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption to make. Would you disagree?

[Trenloe]

Clearly my initial assumption that "upcoming release" referred to the forthcoming release of v4.1 was incorrect; but under the circumstances, given all the discussion that release was generating at the time, I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption to make. Would you disagree?
I don't think you can assume anything is going to be in a specific release unless it's specifically documented as being in that release. And even then, there can be last minute issues which might prevent something being released - in this case, anyone would be entitled to be disappointed. :) However, I think it is unreasonable to assume something's going to be in a release without that something being documented as being in that release.

[LordEntrails]

No boundaries crossed that I noticed :)

FYI, to me their is no difference between eventually and upcoming. Both are an indeterminant time in the future. I get connotations that one might be longer in the future than the other, but neither are in any given time frame, just the future. And SmiteWorks process is that if something isn't being worked on now and planned for the very next release, then they don't commit to when it might be addressed. Too many problems when you suggest public timelines.

[Geometer]

I don't think you can assume anything
Clearly not! ;)



However, I think it is unreasonable to assume something's going to be in a release without that something being documented as being in that release.
I didn't know such documentation existed. Where would I find it?

[LordEntrails]

I didn't know such documentation existed. Where would I find it?
The release notes have have the documentation for what has been released. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/patchnotes_v4.html
Documentation on the next release is informal and only exists when the devs do a public test/beta build and then it will be in the Laboratory https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?55-The-Laboratory

[Trenloe]

I didn't know such documentation existed. Where would I find it?
It's usually an individual post from a SmiteWorks employee, or work-for-hire developer, who can commit to something being fixed in a specific release - for example: "Fixed in release 4.1.1" or similar.

For example, I track the PF2 ruleset issues in a Google sheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lxgAdEnUZru6GayTSxvs8fnuhupbg8rl835HwsGLDHg/edit#gid=0 I list what is fixed in which release, including upcoming releases. A read-only link to this sheet is available in the Pathfinder 2.0 subforum.

[Geometer]

FYI, to me their is no difference between eventually and upcoming.
With respect, I think there is a difference. "Upcoming" implies a known date in the near future, "eventually" implies an undetermined date at some unspecified time in the future



Too many problems when you suggest public timelines.
I understand that. I'm not having a go at Smiteworks, I think they're doing a terrific job and I understand their need to prioritise. It's not my place to tell them how to organise those priorities, but I do think there's a genuine case to be made for sorting out the layer stack to be bumped up the list. I'd be happy to expand on that if you're up for a "frank and open" discussion.

[LordEntrails]

Implications or as I said, connotations are different. But both words are defined as something in the future. Given that what is "soon" or "near future" varies depends upon the person, and often upon the specifics of what is being discussed, to me, it's of little value to worry about. "Soon" for an update to an FG module might be a week for most people, but "soon" for colonization of Mars might be 30 years for most people.

I've never said, and I don't think anyone has implied, that correcting this behavior is not important. Or even the possibility of it being moved up the list of priorities. But, given that we don't know where it is on the list now (#1 or #1000) trying to support moving it up the list (which we will never know the effectiveness of such support) is, to me, is futile. Or at least not worth my time. You have laid out the importance pretty well, I don't see value in you continuing to spend time on it.

But that's all me. My opinions, thoughts and perspective.

[Moon Wizard]

Just to be clear; no one other than myself or @ddavison should be seen as giving out dates or timelines; and I am firmly in the camp that giving out dates only leads to trouble with missed expectations and back-seat driving by the community.

I will say that collapsed folders on load is considered a "feature request"; and being unable to edit layer names is considered a "bug". They will be prioritized accordingly. Also, these are not necessarily the current list to be knocked out next. We have hundreds of bugs and feature requests that we look at each week; and we tend to knock them out in groups according to direction from @ddavison and myself. Also, we need to be moving forward on new items as well as fixing up stuff. Our current focus is on vision/lighting bugs, since we just released that 1.5 weeks ago.

Regards,
JPG

[Geometer]

Just to be clear; no one other than myself or @ddavison should be seen as giving out dates or timelines; and I am firmly in the camp that giving out dates only leads to trouble with missed expectations and back-seat driving by the community.

I will say that collapsed folders on load is considered a "feature request"; and being unable to edit layer names is considered a "bug". They will be prioritized accordingly. Also, these are not necessarily the current list to be knocked out next. We have hundreds of bugs and feature requests that we look at each week; and we tend to knock them out in groups according to direction from @ddavison and myself. Also, we need to be moving forward on new items as well as fixing up stuff. Our current focus is on vision/lighting bugs, since we just released that 1.5 weeks ago.

Regards,
JPG

Fair enough. Expectations recalibrated accordingly.

[Geometer]

You have laid out the importance pretty well, I don't see value in you continuing to spend time on it.


A pity. This isn't just about me having issues with a minor bug, I think there are broader implications for FG as a whole that are possibly not being considered. I'd quite like the chance to bounce some ideas off somebody better-informed who can tell me if I'm right or not, but I won't push it.

Thanks for your time anyway.

[LordEntrails]

A pity. This isn't just about me having issues with a minor bug, I think there are broader implications for FG as a whole that are possibly not being considered. I'd quite like the chance to bounce some ideas off somebody better-informed who can tell me if I'm right or not, but I won't push it.

Thanks for your time anyway.
Maybe start a new thread and layout your thoughts about the broader implications? I'm not the only one who may be able to add value to such a discussion :)

[Geometer]

@LordEntrails; I might well do that, I'll give it some thought. Cheers.

[Geometer]

I note that the issue of exploding folders has been fixed in the latest release. My sincere thanks for this, it makes a difference.