Growing list of features I am finding that FGU just lacks.

[Keltyrr]

I've bought a copy of FGU ultimate for myself, and for another DM in my community. I have plans to buy multiple more copies for the other DMs too. I want FGU to be great, I want it to be the universal tool used across the board for my entire community, but lately, frustration has been mounting. THis time from me instead of just my players. I expected frustration from my players as they are made to learn/use a new program. FGU is a bit front-heavy in its learning curve, in my opinion. But each week or two I try to address one of the frustrations and spread that news/information to each of the games I play. Over time I am starting to find that some things that should be easily addressed, are either exceptionally complicated to the point of blatant stupidity, or there is no reasonable solution at all.

I end up last night asking all of my players to contribute to a google doc some of the issues they are having.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sgk_eEqfJV2rJmAAS9mNrHdEGQ72DN37NMLIUwTZ6AM/edit?usp=sharing <--- this link does contain profanity and I've been asked to mark it as NSFW as a result. Here you go.

Most of them decided specifically NOT to do so but even so the list has grown shockingly quickly in my opinion. I had intended to wait a couple days and go down the list myself and see what issues I can find a solution to before I posted it, but I met another frustrating thing today that has caused me to decide not to wait.


I 46173

I decided one of the first complaints I would try to address is how the vast majority of the 3.5e spells are only half put in. It doesn't matter if I use the partial SRD that comes with FGU, or the pathfinder version, or the complete SRD accessory I paid for, it's incomplete. As one can see in the example in the image above, a very common spell such as cure light wounds. Will save should make it harmless on a living creature, but do half damage on the undead. Well, there is no save on the spell in all three versions. Plus, in all three versions, it heals both living and undead. It doesn't damage undead. Seems like that should be a base feature taken into consideration in the base game. It's an extremely core feature of most fantasy RPGs. It would be like forgetting to add swords.

The matter gets compounded however by the fact there is no means for me to add this to the spell itself. Sure, I can edit it on a player's sheet to add a will save. Sure I can edit it on a player's sheet to add a damage function to the spell. But I run 4 games a week. When one or more of those end I am sure I will run more games in the future. The fact that I can't add this to the spell in the master list is severely frustrating. More than one person has access to this spell in every one of my parties, either through a character list or wands or some other item. Having to go through 10 sheets in a week to add what should have already been included, seems pretty well frustrating and on the far side of dumb. Yes, I could explain it to each party as well and make them do it, but again that's still more work than if I could just fix the spell once and be done with it.

Yet there are other spells that are even worse. Ray of Enfeeblement is a great example. I was trying to figure out how to make that work yesterday and I find threads/posts on these forums going back 6 years trying to figure out how to make that broken spell work. Turns out the solution is to open a person's sheet and add 6 different effect lines because nobody thought to have spells be able to apply the effects they exist for, and a dice roll to go with it. So for each person that uses Ray of Enfeeblement I have to tell them to make an effect for -2 Str, -3 Str, -4 Str, -5 Str, -6 Str, -7 Str, -8 Str, -9 Str, -10 Str, and -11 Str on their spell then roll dice manually to determine each one, then apply it. Touch of Idiocy takes it a step further yet because now it required 18 different effects because it's 1d6 to each of the three mental stats.

I leaned hard into Fantasy Grounds because one of the problems with 3.5e D&D was that when you are doing everything by hand or having to type stuff up, fights could take a crazy long time. It certainly does speed things up dramatically, for fighters. But the further you get from one-dimensional combat the more it slows down to weaknesses in Fantasy Grounds and the inability to prep cleaning, the more things slow down. The time is being eaten more in other parts of the sessions. Given that players can't work on their sheets without me booting up the game, the obvious solution is an increase in my workload between sessions for me to go fix things for everyone. But even that can't be done properly because I can't fix the master copy of some of any of these spells. That is literally the big source of frustration for me at this specific moment. I can't fix Cure Light Wounds once, I have to go fix it 10 times in 10 different locations.

[Flyteach]

Please mark the link to the Google doc as NSFW.

[LordEntrails]

If you wish to change the spells just once, make a copy of the SRD Spells module. Make sure you give it a new name. Edit it in a text editor. Then use that in all your campaigns, have all your players load your custom module and not the default one. You can do the same with any of the other SRD modules you wish to change. Purchased modules you can not do this with since their are protected, but all the SRD modules are simple zipped xml files that you can copy and edit.

Just so you know, 3.5E is pretty old (14+ years), and accounts for less than 2 percent of the FG games played. PF1E has a higher percentage of about 7 percent, but also is on the decline. WotC has never given a license to produce official content for that edition either.

I know that's not what you want to hear, and I don't say it to be dismissive of the issues you are experiencing, not at all. But to help set a level of expectations.

Have you checked the 3.5/PF forums to see if anyone has updated these modules already? Given the return on investment, I doubt SmiteWorks will be making any significant changes to the modules or the ruleset at this point it time. I don't see how they could ever recoup the resources invested in doing so given the tiny market segment, the inability to sell DLC for it, and that the user base is declining.

[LordEntrails]

To try and answer some of the issues in the document itself I'll add info here. Note that asking in the 3.x/PF forum would probably get people more familiar with the ruleset to answer.

No reasonable or easy way to give a player control of a creature’s statblock for the case of summons.
Drag NPC object to the character portrait. In FGU you also need to add the token to Party Vision and Movement or use the option.

Unity lacks any ‘solo’/local ability to load up your character if you need to check something during non-game day and requires you to ask the GM to open the game for you if you are on the free version (possibly other versions as well). This was present in the classic version.
Not true. Players can create a "Manage Characters' (or any name) campaign. Once in there they can Import characters from any game of the same ruleset. Same functionality of Manage Characters, but eliminates a whole section of redundant and often troublesome code.

Map “layers” - fog of war is fine and all, what about secret doors being on another layer that get enabled when found
Sure, you can do this. It's just up to the person who creates the map to put the secret doors on a layer and hide them. Then up to the DM to unhide them when found.

The ‘can’t pass through that’ function of maps can be annoying when backtracking in dungeons.
GM's can do this no problem by holding Shift when dragging tokens. Most GMs do not want players to be able to move through walls, but a GM can anytime they wish if they use the correct combination.

Live token movement would be nice, like being able to see how a player moved their token rather than it just appearing in the next position.
If you turn on Token Locking then you get this. If you turn it off, then you don't.

Also I havn’t found a way to point at things on the map other than like making a cone template or something, maybe im just stupid and the ui is bad
Quick pointers. Use the left and right mouse button combo to draw an arrow. Hold Alt to add a cone, shift for a square and ctrl for a circle.

[Sulimo]

I read through the document. A lot of the comments are specific to your ruleset, and as Lord Entrails says, you might get a better response in the specific subforum for that ruleset, the people there are probably more familiar with how it works.

Here are some items that I saw that I can answer.


Unity lacks any ‘solo’/local ability to load up your character if you need to check something during non-game day and requires you to ask the GM to open the game for you if you are on the free version (possibly other versions as well). This was present in the classic version.

Here is a video that explains how to manage characters solo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30o7jjJpLoo).


Map “layers” - fog of war is fine and all, what about secret doors being on another layer that get enabled when found?


There is a series of videos that explains how LoS works and how the various types work. In short, use the toggleable wall for secret doors. Players cannot see them (they look just like a regular wall), but the GM can.

See Line of Sight videos here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?55797-How-do-I-in-Unity).

If the comment is just about layers themselves, it is possible to set a layer as GM only view.


No reasonable or easy way to give a player control of a creature’s statblock for the case of summons.


As Lord Entrails mentioned, drag the NPC to the character portrait in the upper left corner.

Here is a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS5p68O5EuQ).

[Zarestia]

LordEntrails and Sulimo already gave a few solutions.
Look for the PFRPG Spellbook in the forum, the community created a fully functional module with thousands of spells working (damage, effects and so on). Further check the 3.5E and PF1 forums for extensions. Read about effects, those are heavily used in 3.5E.
SmiteWorks has a 30-refund policy, no questions asked, if you're unhappy.

As I sadly read a very swearing tone in your player's document I suggest to also try out other VTTs with them. Don't try put them on a system they don't and probably will never like.

[Kelrugem]

I just skimmed the points and have not much time: For templates of NPCs you can use the extension which comes with the advanced bestiary in the FG store (but that's another purchase; but there is the mentioned 30-days refund guarantee :) ). There is automation with applying templates to NPCs (it won't do everything but a lot) :)

[Keltyrr]

To try and answer some of the issues in the document itself I'll add info here. Note that asking in the 3.x/PF forum would probably get people more familiar with the ruleset to answer.

No reasonable or easy way to give a player control of a creature’s statblock for the case of summons.
Drag NPC object to the character portrait. In FGU you also need to add the token to Party Vision and Movement or use the option.
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I've read tutorial after tutorial on this and they all list the same steps. After watching the video posted below by Sulimo I think this may be more of an accidental bug. It appears to be D&D 5e being shown in the video, and while following the exact steps.. I get the exact results. Right up until a player tries to move the token. Players get no token control though they can open and act off the statblock, they can't move their summon.

And, I do realize that 3.5e isn't going to be big money for them to make new content. I am not really asking for new content. I realize that Smiteworks has no legal ability to go and import content from the other dozens of 3.5e books. I would have liked to have had the stuff they have the legal right to, the SRD, which they do sell, to be intact. Like last night's game, had my party fighting Dire Wereboars. No hit points on the sheet. This happened once before with another creature I can't recall, and moments ago while clicking random creatures I found the Aboleth mage is in the same boat. So after opening about 25 creatures I find 4 that are that way today. This also brings up, Aboleth Mage, Ogre mage, and presumably other casting creatures have no spells on their premade sheets. So I am gonna have to remake a bunch of those.

Additionally I looked into the XML files and I don't see a means to add the content I need to make these spells work. It's just the same content as on the original spells ingame. The damage rolls, the effects, none of that seems to be in there.


At the suggestion of yourself, and others I put a new post over in the 3.5e section. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?68109-Growing-list-of-features-I-am-finding-that-FGU-just-lacks&p=596965#post596965

[Sulimo]

I've read tutorial after tutorial on this and they all list the same steps. After watching the video posted below by Sulimo I think this may be more of an accidental bug. It appears to be D&D 5e being shown in the video, and while following the exact steps.. I get the exact results. Right up until a player tries to move the token. Players get no token control though they can open and act off the statblock, they can't move their summon.



Do you have shared Party vision and Movement on (it's off by default)? That has to be on for this to work.

https://i.imgur.com/gLSebYw.png

[Sulimo]

And, I do realize that 3.5e isn't going to be big money for them to make new content. I am not really asking for new content. I realize that Smiteworks has no legal ability to go and import content from the other dozens of 3.5e books. I would have liked to have had the stuff they have the legal right to, the SRD, which they do sell, to be intact. Like last night's game, had my party fighting Dire Wereboars. No hit points on the sheet. This happened once before with another creature I can't recall, and moments ago while clicking random creatures I found the Aboleth mage is in the same boat. So after opening about 25 creatures I find 4 that are that way today.


I am going to preface this that I know nothing of 3.5E, so I could be missing something.

I looked at the Aboleth, Dire Wereboar, and Ogre (you mentioned a fourth, but only those three were specified), and I am seeing HP for all of them.

I just created a new 3.5E campaign.

https://i.imgur.com/NxgKZao.png

[Keltyrr]

I am going to preface this that I know nothing of 3.5E, so I could be missing something.

I looked at the Aboleth, Dire Wereboar, and Ogre (you mentioned a fourth, but only those three were specified), and I am seeing HP for all of them.

I just created a new 3.5E campaign.

https://i.imgur.com/NxgKZao.png

I specifically mean the once from the Complete SRD, which is a separate addon one has to pay $6.99 for. Has all the base stuff of the original plus all of the dragon statblocks, psionics, magic versions of all the mundane items, ect.

Yes, the one from the base ruleset have the HP.

[superteddy57]

Can you provide a link to the product in question on the store that is missing data? When something like this is missing, we would like to see them reported to the ruleset specific bug report threads. The devs responsible for those modules subscribe to those threads and repair the mistakes. The support forums are more for the program at large and it's features.

[Keltyrr]

Can you provide a link to the product in question on the store that is missing data? When something like this is missing, we would like to see them reported to the ruleset specific bug report threads. The devs responsible for those modules subscribe to those threads and repair the mistakes. The support forums are more for the program at large and it's features.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=DGA044

Says unavailable? Not sure if that's because I have it already or not. I bought it a week before this past christmas.

[superteddy57]

Well that says it was released 2009. I would have to guess the dev wouldn't be around. I can certainly do some poking and see the status of the module. With modules this old I don't believe it's being maintained.

[Zacchaeus]

Wasn't that withdrawn from the store at one time?

[Trenloe]

Wasn't that withdrawn from the store at one time?
Yep, it was. And the relative old state, and the fact that it's been withdrawn, was mentioned to the OP @Keltyrr last year: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?59175-Is-there-a-module-that-includes-dragons-for-3-5e

[ddavison]

Hello Keltyrr,

I'm sorry to say that the complete SRD module has been deprecated for a while and is no longer maintained or updated. If you can still find use for the product, great, but we don't sell that product any more.

-Doug

[Griogre]

I use to work for Digital Adventures, the company that developed the Complete SRD, and as I remember those monsters that don't have HP have compound HD which at the time the 3E ruleset couldn't handle, ie the Ogre Barbarian HD are: 4d8+19 plus 4d12+16 (79 hp). I haven't played 3.x in a very long time and don't know if those type of hit dice codes can now be used in the 3.x or Pathfinder rulesets.

Edit: Yeah, I just looked and the problem seems to be only the monster part of the HD is being shown.

[Keltyrr]

I use to work for Digital Adventures, the company that developed the Complete SRD, and as I remember those monsters that don't have HP have compound HD which at the time the 3E ruleset couldn't handle, ie the Ogre Barbarian HD are: 4d8+19 plus 4d12+16 (79 hp). I haven't played 3.x in a very long time and don't know if those type of hit dice codes can now be used in the 3.x or Pathfinder rulesets.

Edit: Yeah, I just looked and the problem seems to be only the monster part of the HD is being shown.

Was an external piece of software being used for the input that was ignoring parts of the inputs?

[Griogre]

I didn't work on the complete SRD so I'm not sure how they input the data. I just took a look at the Ogre Barbarian and I see that the hp element has the text "plus" instead of a number, so it's possible they did use such a tool and the text "plus" being after first HD dice code was interpreted as the hp. You can use excel for this type of input and maybe they did and it blew the extra words.

I had wondered if the ruleset auto calculated hp, but I just changed "plus" to 79 and it seems to be fine. And I see the HD element is a string so it could actually hold the compound dice code, so it looks like an input error to me rather than an actual ruleset problem.

It looks like there are a dozen or so of these type of errors from looking at the XML.

[Kelrugem]

Yeah, the ruleset is certainly able to handle a sum of different HD :)

[Aramis Dante]

Hi Keltyrr,

I feel your pain in what you are going through and as with any software program there are growing pains involved and what's more expectations which don't meet up with realities. I am a recent Nov 2020 user of FGU and went through the same problems you are facing now. What I am about to say, did not make me happy when I was presented it. However, after some thought, I realized it was correct, and it is this. Almost any VTT [Virtual tabletop] is going to have limitations on them, particuliarly when it comes to older rulesets. I too, hate that they don't update or remake it, (I also, am a 3.5 [pathfinder], hobbyist), I have no intention of changing game systems and in fact plan on using FGU for game systems not even supported by smiteworks. This is the advantage of a VTT in that you can play almost any game that you can play on a real table top. The disadvantage is that no VTT can support every game system with the minutiae of detail. Furthermore, the ruleset in question was made prior to smiteworks buying the company, if memory serves me right. Being a company they are trying to make a profit so support current systems no matter how much we love out older systems. That being said you can play 3.5 / pathfinder but without all the bells and whistles of the newer systems out there. Basically think of the FGU or any VTT for that matter as literally just the table. You don't even need to buy a ruleset to run a game. For example I love Battletech, a time for war game system and it does not exist in this VTT. That does not stop me from playing it with my friends using FGU as the tabletop. While I know expectations are if you buy something you want to be able to use it, technically you can. Will it have the functionality that you want, maybe, maybe not, but in either case you can still play the game. As many have said before me, there are many work arounds through extensions, mods and just plain good ideas on the specific forums. What my point is in all this is simply this, you can still play the game, with or without the bells and whistles. Despite its short comings, {and all VTT's have them to one degree or another}, I love this platform. The forums and discord are quite active and very helpful there are even third party resources not affiliated with smiteworks in anyway, purely fanbased that can help you with any deficiencies you perceive in FGU. Fantasy Grounds College specifically and many of those who have commented on your post also have helpful videos. Most of what you and your friends are going through are growing pains in learning the limitations vs expectations of a software that can't do everything we want but gives us just what we need to play with people from all walks of life and nationalities. This itself is remarkable and wonderful. Hopefully you can adapt, you and your friends are most welcome here and as you can see by your thread, we as fellow gamers, are willing to help as we can to make your transition into VTT gaming as smooth as possible. Please join fantasy grounds discord if you haven't already. Most sincerely Aramis

[amerigoV]

Unity lacks any ‘solo’/local ability to load up your character if you need to check something during non-game day and requires you to ask the GM to open the game for you if you are on the free version (possibly other versions as well). This was present in the classic version.
Not true. Players can create a "Manage Characters' (or any name) campaign. Once in there they can Import characters from any game of the same ruleset. Same functionality of Manage Characters, but eliminates a whole section of redundant and often troublesome code.



In FGU, I do not seem to be able to do this for a ruleset that I do not own. So even on the FREE version I can see (for example) Savage Worlds, the Savage Worlds characters and all Savage Worlds settings because I own those items at the account level. But I played in a CoC game recently and I do not see an option to make a campaign to see this character (I do not own that particular ruleset). Am I missing something or is this a "Partially True" situation?

[Kelrugem]

In FGU, I do not seem to be able to do this for a ruleset that I do not own. So even on the FREE version I can see (for example) Savage Worlds, the Savage Worlds characters and all Savage Worlds settings because I own those items at the account level. But I played in a CoC game recently and I do not see an option to make a campaign to see this character (I do not own that particular ruleset). Am I missing something or is this a "Partially True" situation?

You need to own the ruleset to create a campaign in order to view your character :)

But I think this is also the case in FGC with the Manager Character stuff, isn't it? (never used it) which doesn't make the lack better, but I am not sure whether there is a possibility to allow that (maybe that one gets all official rulesets, and the purchase of the ruleset in the store just allows that one can then host such a ruleset?)

[Trenloe]

You can't edit a character in FGC manage characters or an FGU campaign if you don't own the ruleset.

There was a feature in FGC Manage Characters where you could view your character by loading the campaign cache (as this would have the ruleset cached as well). But you couldn't edit that character - it was read only.