Exploration and Healing

[toastsniffer187]

In Pathfinder 2e. can you just keep spending time 10min-1hr cool downs on healing checks for as long as the players wish to do so. And if the players are just going to circle jerk is there a better way or just have to roll it out or home brew it?

[Trenloe]

In Pathfinder 2e. can you just keep spending time 10min-1hr cool downs on healing checks for as long as the players wish to do so.
Yes. It’s all a matter of time...

[vonBlashyrkh]

The game is designed for players to be entering combats at (or near) full health - creatures can do large amounts of damage, and they do it quickly. If PC's are still recovering from one fight, the next one could likely finish them. Spells provide patch healing during an encounter, but the main source of recovery is the Medicine skill or Focus spells.

[Willot]

Yeah, Time Tracking is pretty important in PF2e; the Calendar Is your friend here for keeping a running log. There is also a extension https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?63546-PFRPG-Time-Manager

As for players

Players, "I think we need to rest again.."
GM, "Well you only rested like 2 hrs ago, so I guess you could hold up in a safe place and treat wounds etc then when enough time has passed you can rest. BUT are you sure thats ALOT of time sitting around in one place?"
Players, "Yeah, we could just treat wounds"
Wizard, "BUT I need to redo my spells, im almost tapped!"
Players, "OK we better hold up."
GM, "OK then.............. let me just ask one more time ARE your sure?"
Player, "errrrrrr"



Something like that.

Doesnt have to be a random encounter though, every once and a while give them the bad news.

Example 1:
Players, ......."YOUR EVIL EMPIRE BUILDING ENDS HEREE!!" <wHAcK!>
Evil Orc Overlord, "ARGGGGGGgg! <ThUd!>
Players, "Thats that then! Where's the princess!"
GM, "In the corner of the cave you find the partly eaten corpse of the Princess!"
PLayers, "EATEN! Shes DEAD!?"
Gm, "we'll yeah? You took 4 days to get here??? What did you think was going to happen?"

Example 2:
Players, "wheres this demonist then?
GM, "Gone.
Players "GOne?"
GM, "give me a occult check"
Players, <rolls dice>
GM, "You find the remnants of a summoning ritual, looks like demons? looks like....A big one too!"
Players, "OH this job just go a hell of alot harder......."
GM, "well you absolutely insisted on that extra sleep-in last night.


You dont have to do this all the time, just enough to make them think twice about a BIG rest.

Put the fear of consequences into them

[MaxAstro]

I highly recommend checking out the "tension dice" system by The Angry GM (just google "tension dice"). The way I have run it for a while is that a tension die is added to the pool every time the party takes a 10-minute rest. It works really well - gives them room to rest and heal, but incentivizes them to not waste time.

Just make sure you hit them with actual consequences for tension rolls.

[toastsniffer187]

yeah all my players come from 5e and are like.....now i see why they made hit dice lol.

[ShadeRaven]

It's an interesting juxtaposition of want and result. There's always been a desire to see more than just "who's playing the cleric/healer this time?" necessity that seemed to be part of the D&D based games. We've all wanted to see more than a required "heal bot" character as part of a group. What made that requirement undesirable (in general) is that it always felt like healer was the least interesting role (as opposed to the tank or other important staples to a RPG group).

5E gave everyone Hit Dice and Full Health on Rest. I enjoy 5E, but that's too far for me. It was essentially video game healing (imo). One button cure-all.

PF2 has given us Treat Wounds. It's certainly not perfect, but I prefer it as it at least has some associated cost-benefit aspect. If the campaign (under the GM's direction) and/or the players put value in Time, then the trade off is real. How much of that precious resource are we willing to waste to gain the benefits of the time spent?

vonBlashyrkh brings up an interesting point - one that *I* personally don't adhere to, but I am sure others do. What is the expectation that a party is supposed to be at or near full resource when an encounter is initiated? For me personally, and in my campaigns, I looks as managing the limited powers and abilities as part of the challenge of an adventure/scenario. I want my players to feel as though the use of their "supplies" (consumables, daily powers, hit points, etc) is part of the test of their ability to overcome the obstacles before them.

But that's me. I know other GMs who prefer to have players fully armed and ready when it comes to taking on their hardships.

So the rinse and repeat treat wounds routine is what you make of it. Yes, it can be a mundane, even dice-rolling time sink that - if you aren't going to put in any restraints or time consumption issues - should just be fast-forwarded if that's all there is to it. Without any "tension dice" or price of admission aspect to the process, you are honestly just better off using a 5E type process and let players simply fast forward to full health. It's a waste of time otherwise. I wouldn't bother with the rolling myself if that's the end result. It doesn't serve any purpose to waste good playing time on mechanics that have no real impact on the results.

If you don't want that, there needs to be real value to time and real expenditure when using it up.

[toastsniffer187]

@Willot so when running a published AP you will modify it if they take too long is what your saying?

[Willot]

@Willot so when running a published AP you will modify it if they take too long is what your saying?

Oh hell yes, I modify APs all the time, you have to, how can you be expected to follow a script if your players aren't.

"The wise man treats the Written word of an AP as his guide,
The fool as his bible" - Some Rando!

However you do have to hit those major plot points (Perhaps a bastard son living in the slum quarter is found two days after you take the remains of the princess back to the castle. To keep the story moving. (but the royal family is of course not amused and your "reward" is withheld UNTIL you get the job done with this new heir) ). In the end it doesn't matter if you took the bus or the train just as long as you get to your destination.

There are probably a lot of rules covering changes to "Organized Play" games but I've never looked in to those

[Weissrolf]

As far as I know, random encounters were literally invented to keep players from just sitting it out. It's not the most elegant way, but it can help. We didn't need this in my two actively playing groups yet. We are more struggling with the whole "refocus while tending wounds" example of the good cleric, because somehow everyone sees himself in that. ;)

[lostsanityreturned]

It isn't as ridiculous as you would think to be taking such breaks after taking damage in battle.

As a rule it doesn't require many (or any) rolls as it progresses.

- Players get to a point where their lower tier treat wounds almost auto succeed.
- Assurance means no rolls need be made
- Ward medic means one roll for an entire party per period

The system assumes players will be at or near full health for most fights, it takes some getting used to but it keeps the balance where it should be. And I must say, the balance is an area that PF2e shines in (especially at later levels).

[Weissrolf]

I meant the whole refocus to keep the focus pool mostly full mechanism. Players try to meta-game two mechanics into one to save time. Instead of spending 10 minutes on tending wounds and resting plus another 10 minutes to meditate and refocus that one example of the cleric combining both is stuck in their mindset.

[vonBlashyrkh]

I would say refocusing while performing another activity is a grey one. Can you do two activities at once ie Refocus and Treat Wounds? I would see the argument as no, same way you can't do two Exploration activities at once.
But if you think that's ok then maybe for a cleric of a healing deity (eg Sarenrae) then sure, spending 10 minutes healing the injured is in line with their deities doctrine and I'd permit it as a counting as a Refocus activity. Not so much for a cleric of a battle deity (eg Gorum).
I have a bard as the healer in my current game and he knows that Treat Wounds is a very different way to spend 10 minutes than engaging with his Muse to refocus.

[Weissrolf]

Player like to remember the "can do" examples of rulebooks ("do service toward their causes", "a cleric with focus spells
from a good deity can usually Refocus while tending the wounds of their allies"), not the "you are missing another pair of arms to do that" ones.

[Thes33]

I had only let a cleric Refocus when Treating Wounds because he was a cleric of a deity of healing and had the Heal domain. Otherwise, Refocus should involve an activity connected to the cleric's domains and deity.