Pathfinder 2.0 Ruleset - Release 18 testing

[Trenloe]

Ruleset Release 18 is currently undergoing testing into the FG “test” channel. There is a lot of changes to the ruleset code, as well as data updates to the Core Rules, APG and Character Guide.

I would like some community members to do some testing over the next couple of weeks to test the new functionality and identify any issues when using older data in release 18.

Top level overview video available here: https://youtu.be/wzTGwbsNSh0

Video on how Release 18 interacts with the FGU lighting effects: https://youtu.be/gJpgNdnGq1w

The Core Rules, Advanced Player's Guide (APG) and Lost Omens Character Guide (Player) in the Test channel have had some of the new automation added. There's a lot more to add, some of which will be added during the test period.

New spell action functionality presented in this video: https://youtu.be/Scwxi-GHPmM

Release to live provisionally set to Tuesday May 25th, 2021. Subject to change based on continued testing.

Release 18 has no interdependency on the FGU v4.1 lighting.

[Trenloe]

There are many changes in this release. Most of them are listed below.

Character sheet


Ability tab lists order by the level the entry was applied on. Added buttons to change set order by to either name, level applied ascending (default) or level applied descending.
Allow dragging of a Class record to the class link - allows changing the base class record. Needed for Beginner Box support.
Minor changes to the initial size of secondary (detail) windows to display new fields/format better.
"A" (automation available) indicator added to new records with this functionality.
Added basic effects to weapons in the PC actions tab - these are applied to attack and damage actions. Can be initially populated via new item "use" automation.
Combat tab: Added attack proficiencies and character effects. Attack proficiencies are automatically built from existing text based data if none already exist - a warning message will appear for each PC when then conversion process is carred out - this is usually a one off upgrade process per PC.
Inventory tab - removed "show in mini sheet". Added "A" indicator if item includes automation. "Item" automation triggered when item is equipped.
Skills tab - minor changes to layout to cater for the permanent display of add buttons.
The Chargen tracker will open if a class record is dropped on the PC sheet.
Chargen Tracker: Added "Level Up" button - this will use the currently linked class record to add one level to the PC.
Actions tab - equipping a weapon will equip that item - triggering any "item" effect automation. The weapon equip button will be shown in standard and preparation mode.
Appropriate character effect applied when armor with the "bulwark" trait is worn (equipped).



Effects


New effects: SAVERESULT (changes the success level of a save) and SAVEDAMAGEPER (changes the basic save damage percent received).
Added character "permanent" effects (via an ability of equipped item) and character weapon "use" effects that trigger via an attack or damage action.
Character permanent effects have limited dynamic variables that get populated when used. For example: {LVL} for level, {HLVL} for half level, {HLVLM1} for half level, minimum 1.
Single button in spell cast action to apply all relevant effects from that spell - based off the last stored save result.



Automation


New automation system for applying ability and item automation. Details elsewhere.
Spells now have their actions embedded in the spell record. Currently testing an initial load for the Core Rules spells.
Automation functionality added to Hazard records - Reactions, Routine and Other Actions fields.



Actions


Added "apply all related effects" to spell cast action. Based off the results of a spell cast "save" action, the relevant spell effects can be applied.
Added "save state" to the save action. The system will store the results of the last save triggered for each action - allowing the effects related to a save result to be applied more easily.
"basic" trait added to save actions that are tagged as "half on save" damage - i.e. they're a "basic save".
Attack action will use basic weapon "use" effects.
Damage actions will use basic weapon "use" effects.
Damage actions applies half damage if ALT key is held when triggering the action.



Record additions/changes


Added "Source" entry to feat and background records. Source will be added to more records in future.
Added "Automation" entry to item record.
Added "Automation" entry to lookup data top level record (automation on lookup data child records remains).
Added NPC automation fields and functionality for Hazard reaction, routing and actions fields.
Added effects fields to spell records. These are auto populated into the record when added to the PC sheet.
Added "result" field to spell effect actions - allows the result of a previous save action to apply a specific effect.
Moved the focus points data for a focus spell class to be stored in one place for the PC. This means that if a PC has multiple focus spell classes they will all use the same focus point pool as per the Core Rules.
Added a spell slot stat/modifier to spell classes - allowing an ability to modify the number of spells available per slot. This is primarily used in the cleric "Divine Font" class feature.
Removed metamagic field from spell and heal damage editor.
Added "spell base stat" to the spell damage and heal editor - allows the stat set in the spell class to be used within the calculations.
Beginner Box code for various record types.
Data lookups - better handling of short names in searches - e.g. "orc" would match "sorcerer" previously. It shouldn't now.


Other


Sidebar buttons changed to red/yellow design more in fitting with the ruleset.



Fixed:


RS2.109 Sorcerers start with 5 cantrips not 6
RS2.111 FGU - Drag/Drop of critical damage dice with the fatal trait raises error
RS2.113 RESIST exception for "Cold iron" parsing just "cold"
RS2.115 PC sheet, skills tab, new buttons overlap header
RS2.116 Inventory total value doesn't update if item cost contains commas
Chargen trackers Ancestry feat button would show goblin ancestry feats of a Hobgoblin.

[Trenloe]

Please test to see that the new functionality operates OK. A lot of this is still a work in progress/proof of concept.

Important! Make a backup of your campaign data if running on FGC! For FGU, after switching to the test channel, you’ll need to copy over any test data you’d like to use, maybe a couple of campaigns, from the <FG app data>\campaigns directory (live data) to the <FG app data>\channels\Test\campaigns directory.

Test initially without any extensions enabled.

The main areas for testing are:

The small example automation entries currently in the Core Rules, APG and Lost Omens Character Guide.
The spell actions in the Core Rules spells only.
Operation of the two new effects – SAVERESULT and SAVEDAMAGEPER.
The operation of the new automation code.


If you come across any issues, please post in this thread. Please provide steps to reproduce, name/s of records being used and a screenshot if at all possible. Thanks!

Known issues are listed in post #7 below.

Whereas I’m a little bit interested in feedback regarding the GUI, what buttons are available, etc. I’m more interested in “does it work”. So please, initially keep comments to stuff that’s already there that doesn’t work, we’ll look at GUI design and missing features later.

[Trenloe]

Reference document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10RElQl0GcstaQ2m3CKKPGV0JGvDyhGyOCXd1wFQ-cN8/edit?usp=sharing

A video showing how the new Release 18 automation interacts with the FGU lighting effects: https://youtu.be/gJpgNdnGq1w

Detailed part 2 update video on automation available here: https://youtu.be/2GGI50epWW8

[Trenloe]

More details, and a video, to come on the new SAVERESULT and SAVEDAMAGEPER effects.

Updated Wiki (not live): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bT6ELxjkUl-6f8KJ6QdFGLjg89Wvyy6AvLbAfH6wJGo/edit?usp=sharing

Part 4 update video covering save effects available here: https://youtu.be/PUHT2H_eurE

Part 5 update video showing new PCROLL functionality - where the GM can request saving throws from the PCs and their results are integrated into the new save result/apply all effects functionality: https://youtu.be/4ed5FwEsi6c

[Trenloe]

The Core Rules, Advanced Player's Guide (APG) and Lost Omens Character Guide (Player) in the Test channel have had some of the new automation added. There's a lot more to add, some of which will be added during the test period.

The Core Rules in test has also had an incremental update to the long process of applying the second printing - there are 569 documented changes in the Core Rules, and it's a slow process to go through them. The Core Rules DLC in the test channel is currently updated to #91 in the list - Chapters 1, 2 and the first 6 classes in Chapter 3 (up to the end of the Druid class). Work is ongoing on this.

More details on the changes in test to come...

[Trenloe]

Clarifications:

When a basic save results in a damage instance with total damage of 1, save for half damage results in 0 damage - should this be a minimum of 1? Step 1 of damage on page 451 of Core Rules says: "Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it)." This is after the minimum of 1 damage rule. This suggests that half 1 damage is 0 and therefore not an issue.

[Trenloe]

Feats Armor Proficiency and Weapon Proficiency don't work correctly. Fixed in Core Rules R18t2.
Feat Toughness doesn't revert the modifier when removed from PC. Fixed in R18t2.
The "[EFFECT use]" tag e.g. [EFFECT use ATK: 2 item], applies correctly to melee weapons but doesn't apply to ranged weapons. Fixed in R18t2.
Effects applied to weapons work when double clicking but do not apply when clicking and dragging (into the chatbox or onto a target). Fixed in R18t2.
Item with "item" effect - when changing from not carried to carried the chargen tracker would indicate that it was unable to remove automation. Fixed in R18t2.
"Effect:" with NPC automation throws up the error: [ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_actions.lua"]:340: setType: Invalid argument. Fixed in R18t3.
The sort by "ascending/descending" feature parses the 10s and 20s after the 1s and 2s. Fixed in R18t3.
PC sheet, Inventory tab: Weapon weight doesn't get updated from bulk until the item record is opened. Fixed in R18t4.
SPELLCLASS throws up the following error when ampersand / "&" symbol is used in the <spell class name> field. May impact other symbols as well. The Spell Class entry is added with the ampersand despite the error and displays correctly. [ERROR] FormattedText SetValue XML Error: An error occurred while parsing EntityName. Line 1, position 119. Fixed in R18t4.
Spell actions get re-parsed when added via automation. Fixed in R18t4.
Character effects applied by class features don't have a link to the class feature record. Fixed in R18t4.
Players can't see persistent damage effect (PERS) flat check roll if Show GM Rolls = No. Fixed in R18t4.
spellclass automation from a class feature would raise an error in manager_automation_pfrpg2 (line 699). Fixed in release 18t6.
The RESIST: {HLVLM1} fire effect in the Character Effects section isn't being applied as part of a relevant action. Also other dynamic variables {...}. Fixed in release 18t7.
Chargen tracker feat grouped list window not showing matching feats if the traits are comma separated. Fixed in release 18t7.
Auto expiring effects (e.g. Frightened:1) wouldn't expire if there was another effect in the line with brackets. Fixed in release 18t7.
FGU - Core Rules spell damage actions have 10 damage entries, most of them empty. Fixed in next Core Rules DLC release.
Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_gamesystem.lua"]:460: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'profBonus' (a nil value) - when adding some classes with spells. Fixed in R18t8.
PCROLL effects without traits don’t populate. Duplicate PCROLL effects created. Fixed in R18t11.
Weapon effects don't apply for drag/drop attack or damage actions. Fixed in CoreRPG.
Item effect application (new item or "equip") doesn't propagate to the CT if the character sheet Combat tab hasn't been opened. Fixed in R18t12.
Untyped damage applies 0 damage. Fixed in R18t12


Clarifications:

Under certain situations damage will be halved. Not an issue - pressing ALT when activating a damage action will halve the damage.

[MaxAstro]

Wow there is some amazing stuff here. Sorting abilities by level, weapon effects, and character effects all stand out to me as huge additions that will be very useful to my games, and my players will definitely thank you for the level up button.

Thank you for continuing to make my life easier!

[Surge]

Holy moly, this is amazing. Bravo to Trenloe and everyone else involved. Seriously amazing stuff.

[vonBlashyrkh]

This is amazing work, thank you

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

The "[EFFECT use]" tag e.g. [EFFECT use ATK: 2 item], applies correctly to melee weapons but doesn't apply to ranged weapons for some reason. (changing the subgroup to martial or martial melee makes the effects apply when cycling equip status).

[Trenloe]

Bug

The "[EFFECT use]" tag e.g. [EFFECT use ATK: 2 item], applies correctly to melee weapons but doesn't apply to ranged weapons for some reason. (changing the subgroup to martial or martial melee makes the effects apply when cycling equip status).
Thanks for reporing.

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

Effects applied to weapons work when double clicking but do not apply when clicking and dragging (into the chatbox or onto a target)

[Trenloe]

Bug

Effects applied to weapons work when double clicking but do not apply when clicking and dragging (into the chatbox or onto a target)
Thanks for reporting.

[lostsanityreturned]

Note

Not a bug but more of an interesting side effect, tags (level, ability score and so on) cannot currently be applied via the character effects. Might be worth noting this in the wiki documentation (upon release) to avoid confusion.

On a related note (using the example that revealed this limitation to me), if you wish to have effects still be visible on the combat tracker I suggest using something similar to the following

Character Effects
IF:CUSTOM(Spirit Rage: Positive); DMG: 2; DMGTYPE: negative, ghost touch; AC: -1; Raging Resistance
IF:CUSTOM(Raging Resistance); IFT:TYPE(Undead); RESIST: 7 all
The 7 above should be con+3, but limitations necessitate it be manually entered

Actions Tab and "Spell" action for rage
"Spirit Rage: Positive"

It shrinks the giant list of effects down substantially and while it isn't quite as nice as a "Name:" field would be, it is an absolute godsend.

[Trenloe]

Note

Not a bug but more of an interesting side effect, tags (level, ability score and so on) cannot currently be applied via the character effects. Might be worth noting this in the wiki documentation (upon release) to avoid confusion.
That's part of the massive amount of documentation I need to do for this release.

Character effects can't be processed the same as the old "apply an effect and replace the tags when they effect is applied" process, as there will be some character effects that remain in place forever and need to adjust their values as they change. An example being the Forge Dwarf heritage fire resistance, which is equal to half the PC level, minimum of 1. These dynamic effects use curly brackets in the effect {<tag>} and are replaced at runtime - you can hover over the name of the character effect entry to get the current effect data.

For example (cursor removed for clarity) - HLVLM1 (half level minimum 1) for the Forge Dwarf Heritage Feature:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44755

[Zaister]

Those are some great updates!

[Trenloe]

Minor update = Release 18t2 (test 2).

Fixing the following:

- Feats Armor Proficiency and Weapon Proficiency don't work correctly. Fixed in Core Rules R18t2.
- Feat Toughness doesn't revert the modifier when removed from PC. Fixed in R18t2.
- The "[EFFECT use]" tag e.g. [EFFECT use ATK: 2 item], applies correctly to melee weapons but doesn't apply to ranged weapons. Fixed in R18t2.
- Effects applied to weapons work when double clicking but do not apply when clicking and dragging (into the chatbox or onto a target). Fixed in R18t2.
- Item with "item" effect - when changing from not carried to carried the chargen tracker would indicate that it was unable to remove automation. Fixed in R18t2.

Added:
- Senses integration for the dynamic lighting now in test.
- Added Effect automation to some Core Rules records for dynamic lighting: candle, torch, everburning torch, lantern (hooded, not bullseye) itesm; and added normal effect actions to light and continual flame. Item automation allows equipping of a light source to automatically utilize the associated "LIGHT" effect.

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

The sort by "ascending/descending" feature parses the 10s and 20s after the 1s and 2s

e.g.
1
11
12
13
2
20
3
4
5

Unrelated, was going to mention light not updating from the character effects window, but I see you have already got on it an fixed it -laughs-

Hopeful Request
Item Bonuses: Could we get the bonus sections of armour and weapons to be parsed as item bonuses rather than misc bonuses? (I am assuming the eventual goal is to be able to drop runes into weapons and armour directly, but it would be nice in the meantime, given that there are other ways to add less static misc bonuses)

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

"Effect:" with NPC automation throws up the error:
[ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_actions.lua"]:340: setType: Invalid argument

[Larsenex]

Trenloe,

These changes look amazing. You and the team are tops!

Thank you!

[Willot]

Are the basic Attack actions like trip, grapple, shove etc in this release? (The ones that use skills like athletics instead of attack) Or is that still coming?

[Trenloe]

Bug

"Effect:" with NPC automation throws up the error:
[ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_actions.lua"]:340: setType: Invalid argument
Thanks for reporting.

[Trenloe]

Bug

The sort by "ascending/descending" feature parses the 10s and 20s after the 1s and 2s

e.g.
1
11
12
13
2
20
3
4
5
Thanks for reporting.

[Trenloe]

Are the basic Attack actions like trip, grapple, shove etc in this release? (The ones that use skills like athletics instead of attack) Or is that still coming?
Still to come. Maybe release 19.

[Trenloe]

Bug

"Effect:" with NPC automation throws up the error:
[ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_actions.lua"]:340: setType: Invalid argument
This only appears when dragging an effect from the NPC automation. Workaround is to use targeting not drag/drop for NPC effect automation. Thanks for reporting. Fixed in R18t3.

[Trenloe]

I've done a video showing how Release 18 interacts with the FGU lighting effects: https://youtu.be/gJpgNdnGq1w

[Trenloe]

Detailed part 2 video on the new automation now available here: https://youtu.be/2GGI50epWW8

[ZZokk]

Thanks Trenloe! Excellent as always!

[Trenloe]

Release 18t3 is now in the test channel, run an update to get the following fixes:


"Effect:" with NPC automation throws up the error: [ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_actions.lua"]:340: setType: Invalid argument. Fixed in R18t3.
The sort by "ascending/descending" feature parses the 10s and 20s after the 1s and 2s. Fixed in R18t3.

[Weissrolf]

Good stuff! :o

[MaxAstro]

Just watched the lighting video and WOW.

My favorite thing is definitely darkvision actually being grayscale, that is a super cool touch.

EDIT: Will this version include a way to add light sources directly to maps, or is that a future thing?

[Weissrolf]

To my understanding Darkvision should also turn any dim light areas to monochrome/gray. But I understand that this functionality is not possible yet.

[Trenloe]

Will this version include a way to add light sources directly to maps, or is that a future thing?


To my understanding Darkvision should also turn any dim light areas to monochrome/gray. But I understand that this functionality is not possible yet.
These are independent of the PF2 Release 18 functionality. Please ask questions about, or discuss, this in the dynamic lighting threads. Thanks.

[Weissrolf]

So I understand that rulesets cannot alter the functionality of lighting functions to follow their specific implementations? Good to know and indeed then there is no point in discussing these things in the ruleset forum sections.

[Trenloe]

So I understand that rulesets cannot alter the functionality of lighting functions to follow their specific implementations? Good to know and indeed then there is no point in discussing these things in the ruleset forum sections.
No, that's not the case. I don't want discussions about general lighting/ruleset information in the PF2 Release 18 testing thread. Please respect that and post such questions elsewhere. And please don't reply to this post in this thread either, unless you are specifically discussing the PF2 Release 18 testing - see post #2 in this thread for what this covers. If you want to discuss lighting for the PF2 ruleset please start another thread. Thanks.

[Weissrolf]

All of the coming changes will be useful for my groups and I will test them with copies of our actual campaigns/chars.

- Saveresults: we have PCs that come with corresponding feats. Usually players keep that in mind themselves, but it's nice to not think about it anymore.

- PC effects: should be very useful for ranger's "Hunt Prey" effect that currently we put on some weapons (often forgot to reapply to CT entry once cleared).

- Item effects: replaces an extension that I already paid for (see last entry), but obviously useful.

- Weapon training automation: yes, please. Not much of an issue for PCs who keep using the same weapon for months of play, but easily mixed up for PCs with lots of weaponry (looking at you AoA ranger).

- Spells "apply all related effects": This one looks useful, but I did not find an explanation in the video?! What does "state setting" mean? I quickly tried it with one of the Dragon Pillar hazards in Age of Ashes and clicking the button does nothing. I also wonder what happens when a PC re-rolls a safe via hero point (first roll done via spell's own save button, re-roll done via PC sheet)?

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

SPELLCLASS throws up the following error when ampersand / "&" symbol is used in the <spell class name> field. May impact other symbols as well. The Spell Class entry is added with the ampersand despite the error and displays correctly.


[ERROR] FormattedText SetValue XML Error: An error occurred while parsing EntityName. Line 1, position 119

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

SPELL Importing spells doesn't import their embedded actions and defaults to automatically parsed actions.

e.g. Gust of Wind
- Imported with SPELL: applies Save: Fort and Damage: 2d6 bludgeoning
- Manually Dragged to list: applies Save: Fort, Effect: Gust of Wind [SELF][D:1], Effect:Prone, Damage: 2d6 bludgeoning

[Trenloe]

Bug

SPELL Importing spells doesn't import their embedded actions and defaults to automatically parsed actions.

e.g. Gust of Wind
- Imported with SPELL: applies Save: Fort and Damage: 2d6 bludgeoning
- Manually Dragged to list: applies Save: Fort, Effect: Gust of Wind [SELF][D:1], Effect:Prone, Damage: 2d6 bludgeoning
Can you expand on what you mean by "importing" please'?

[Trenloe]

Bug

SPELLCLASS throws up the following error when ampersand / "&" symbol is used in the <spell class name> field. May impact other symbols as well. The Spell Class entry is added with the ampersand despite the error and displays correctly.
Thanks for reporting.

[MaxAstro]

I'm not sure how helpful this report is, because I wasn't able to reproduce it reliably, but I ran into a bug where sometimes players couldn't see when first placed onto a new map. Selecting their token and even moving their token around didn't do anything. If I clicked on them, their token displayed the expected zone of vision, but from their point of view the map was black except for their token.

In both cases this happened, we were able to fix it by deleting the token, replacing it, and then having the player close and reopen the map. I'm not sure all those steps were needed; we kind of did it all at once because we were trying to keep game moving. Also, in both cases this happened, it didn't affect all players, just one or two.

[lostsanityreturned]

Can you expand on what you mean by "importing" please'?

Using the new SPELL automation tag in a feat, feature or item field to add a spell to the actions tab.

Arcane sense does this with detect magic for instance.

e.g.

- [SPELL add Gust of Wind|Primal Innate Spell]
- [SPELL|Gust of Wind|Primal Innate Spell]

Issue: The spell added does not include the spell effects that are in the spell entry, and reverts to automatically parsing effects instead.

[lostsanityreturned]

but I ran into a bug where sometimes players couldn't see when first placed onto a new map.

This is a FG:U issue not a PF2e ruleset issue and not connected to the R18 test. I recommend going to the house of healing thread for FG:U (although it is a known issue and lots of people have had this issue, including my players)

A work around is using the minimize / expand option for the image and or cycling the image to be larger/smaller with the arrow in the top right.

[Trenloe]

Using the new SPELL automation tag in a feat, feature or item field to add a spell to the actions tab.

Arcane sense does this with detect magic for instance.

e.g.

- [SPELL add Gust of Wind|Primal Innate Spell]
- [SPELL|Gust of Wind|Primal Innate Spell]

Issue: The spell added does not include the spell effects that are in the spell entry, and reverts to automatically parsing effects instead.
Ah, right. Thanks for clarifying and reporting. Fixed in R18t4.

[MaxAstro]

Thanks for the info, lostsanity. Hard to tell what is a new bug and what is just a bug I haven't seen before, sometimes.

[Trenloe]

Thanks for the info, lostsanity. Hard to tell what is a new bug and what is just a bug I haven't seen before, sometimes.
Please see post #2 of this thread for what the Release 18 testing involves. It's easy to get mixed up with the lighting testing getting released a day after, but it's actually quite simple - if the functionality is not to do with the Pathfinder Second Edition RPG system, then it's not part of the ruleset, and it's not part of the Release 18 testing if the functionality isn't listed in post #2 of this thread. Please make sure you post in the appropriate thread - not doing so dilutes, and sometimes completely destroys, the intent of the thread. Thanks.

[lostsanityreturned]

Inconsistency / Possible Bug

AC and ATK effects with the item bonus type are handled differently in the ruleset with armours and weapons.


"AC: * item" is only applied once the total exceeds the equipped armour's combined "AC Bonus" and "Bonus" fields
"ATK: * item" bonus applies to weapon attacks in addition for the item's "Bonus" field.


I discovered this as I was testing an automatic bonus progression "feat", I was expecting both to work how it was working for the weapon's ATK effect does (although I would prefer it to be like the AC's).

(Just checked this in R17, turns out this inconsistency had already existed but I never noticed before)

[Trenloe]

Inconsistency / Possible Bug

AC and ATK effects with the item bonus type are handled differently in the ruleset with armours and weapons.


"AC: * item" is only applied once the total exceeds the equipped armour's combined "AC Bonus" and "Bonus" fields
"ATK: * item" bonus applies to weapon attacks in addition for the item's "Bonus" field.


I discovered this as I was testing an automatic bonus progression "feat", I was expecting both to work how it was working for the weapon's ATK effect does (although I would prefer it to be like the AC's).

(Just checked this in R17, turns out this inconsistency had already existed but I never noticed before)
Yeah, that's been around for a bit. The whole effects and bonus type system will get an overhaul - probably in release 20, with some things (damage related) in release 19.

[Trenloe]

New spell action functionality presented in this video: https://youtu.be/Scwxi-GHPmM

[flashgordon]

This is amazing. The only other thing I want from spell actions is the ability to use a skill check as an attack/cast action, and be able to target Skill based DCs.

[Trenloe]

This is amazing. The only other thing I want from spell actions is the ability to use a skill check as an attack/cast action, and be able to target Skill based DCs.
That's in release 19 or 20.

[Trenloe]

The final video I plan to do on the test Release 18 functionality, Part 4 Save Effects, is now available: https://youtu.be/PUHT2H_eurE

[Trenloe]

R18t4 (Release 18 test 4) has now been pushed to the test channel. Some minor changes to the Core Rules were also pushed (including second printing errata upto the end of the Monk class section).

Fixes:

PC sheet, Inventory tab: Weapon weight doesn't get updated from bulk until the item record is opened. Fixed in R18t4.
SPELLCLASS throws up the following error when ampersand / "&" symbol is used in the <spell class name> field. May impact other symbols as well. The Spell Class entry is added with the ampersand despite the error and displays correctly. [ERROR] FormattedText SetValue XML Error: An error occurred while parsing EntityName. Line 1, position 119. Fixed in R18t4.
Spell actions get re-parsed when added via automation. Fixed in R18t4.
Character effects applied by class features don't have a link to the class feature record. Fixed in R18t4.
Players can't see persistent damage effect (PERS) flat check for "friendly" NPCs an PCs roll if Show GM Rolls = No. Fixed in R18t4.


Added:

Odd Spell level and Even Spell level to damage and heal action cycler options and calculations.
CreatureAbility lookup data type.
"creatureability" NPC automation type that displays a minimal lookup data record.
reference_lookupdata_minimal windowclass that just shows the header (name, links, lock, etc.), source and text.

[Pyaray76]

Hi there,
does FGU plan automation for feats aswell, e.g. power attack. shield block?
regards Sören

[Trenloe]

Hi there,
does FGU plan automation for feats aswell, e.g. power attack. shield block?
regards Sören
If it's possible to automate them, then yes, the plan is to slowly add in possible automation to feats. You can see that there are some feats that already have automation present, and others are being added slowly. More information in the automation video linked in post #4.

[lostsanityreturned]

Would it be possible to add {AC} as a tag to return the current "total ac" value (akin to {LVL})?

(I am looking to release an automation aid for the form spells and wildshape, and this would streamline a lot)

[Trenloe]

Would it be possible to add {AC} as a tag to return the current "total ac" value (akin to {LVL})?

(I am looking to release an automation aid for the form spells and wildshape, and this would streamline a lot)
That's possible... To confirm - this is for character effects or CT effects, or both?

[lostsanityreturned]

That's possible... To confirm - this is for character effects or CT effects, or both?

I am using it for a character effect. Of the top of my head I cannot think of another use for it atm, although that doesn't mean there won't be one in the long run for the combat tracker, it is a pretty unique use case as far as the rules are concerned.

While I remember
- With the "[HP *]" tag, is there currently a temporary hitpoint option or is it just ancestry, misc and miscperlevel for now?
- With the "[SPELLCLASS *]" tag, is there currently a way to set the proficiency tier of the added spell class (including untrained)?

[Trenloe]

I am using it for a character effect. Of the top of my head I cannot think of another use for it atm, although that doesn't mean there won't be one in the long run for the combat tracker, it is a pretty unique use case as far as the rules are concerned.

While I remember
- With the "[HP *]" tag, is there currently a temporary hitpoint option or is it just ancestry, misc and miscperlevel for now?
- With the "[SPELLCLASS *]" tag, is there currently a way to set the proficiency tier of the added spell class (including untrained)?
I'll look into adding {AC} and a dynamic character effect variable

What's the use case for temporary HP? The automation is usually used for longer term database changes, but I can investigate other possibilities.

I'll look into what options are available with SPELLCLASS.

[Trenloe]

Would it be possible to add {AC} as a tag to return the current "total ac" value (akin to {LVL})?
I've added some code to the next test version (R18t5) - not yet in the test channel.

See the "PC Specific Notes - Character effects" section of the test effects Wiki doc here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bT6ELxjkUl-6f8KJ6QdFGLjg89Wvyy6AvLbAfH6wJGo/edit?usp=sharing

[Trenloe]

Release 18t5 is now in the test channel.

Part 5 update video showing new PCROLL functionality - where the GM can request saving throws from the PCs and their results are integrated into the new save result/apply all effects functionality: https://youtu.be/4ed5FwEsi6c

Added:
- No coin bulk checkbox to bulk parameters window.
- [TRAITS: abc] option to NPC ability automation "Damage" entry
- Result tracking for NPC automation abilities: Save, Attack and VsDC
- Initial deployment of PCROLL functionality - see Release 18 update part 5 video (link above).
- {AC} to character effects dynamic variables.

Changed:
- Remove action symbols from lookup data name while doing a lookup data record search
- {...} character effect dynamic variable replacement to support current mathematical calculations.
- RMMT option (Remote Target on Miss) option has essentially been removed from the ruleset (it's set to off by default and can't be changed). The new release 18 save states replace this.

Core Rules data update: Second Printing errata now includes all classes in Chapter 3 and all content from Chapters 1 and 2. Updates ongoing...

[Weissrolf]

Looks great! Can the new PCROLL handle re-rolls (last save used instead of first)?

[Stigfinnaren]

Looks great! Can the new PCROLL handle re-rolls (last save used instead of first)?
In the video demo, it shows using hero point to re-roll and change result.

[Weissrolf]

Thanks for pointing that out. Very useful feature then.

[flashgordon]

Would it be possible to default to using PCROLL instead of having to Alt-Click?

[Trenloe]

Would it be possible to default to using PCROLL instead of having to Alt-Click?
I've specifically set it as ALT for testing.

Depending on how the testing goes, I'm more than likely going to have it as a campaign option - off (with ALT) or ON (no ALT option).

[Milke]

On the dynamic lighting stuff coming out, are they going to do like they did with the LoS, and update the purchased modules? Or is it a thing of, like, it's so easy to do it, that the GM can just do it real quick.

[Trenloe]

On the dynamic lighting stuff coming out, are they going to do like they did with the LoS, and update the purchased modules? Or is it a thing of, like, it's so easy to do it, that the GM can just do it real quick.
That would be up to the individual converter and based on SmiteWorks direction. I don’t know what the latter is going to be at this point.

[SillyOldeBear]

The RESIST: {HLVLM1} fire effect in the Character Effects section does not seem to be working anymore. It seemed to be working previously. I am running 18t5 in the Test channel.

Also, these changes are awesome. Thank you for your efforts.

[Trenloe]

The RESIST: {HLVLM1} fire effect in the Character Effects section does not seem to be working anymore. It seemed to be working previously. I am running 18t5 in the Test channel.
Thanks for reporting, I'll get that fixed for the next release.

[MaxAstro]

So funny story - I was going to report as a bug that I ran into an issue where saving throw results weren't being shown to the PCs.

Watching the video on this new functionality, I realized that I actually made the exact same mistake you did. :)

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

Issue 1
Spells with damage entries have 9 blank values under their initial numerical entry when editing/inspecting (the magnifying glass).

Issue 2
The new character effect tag "{AC}" doesn't seem to work I have tested it in every way I can think, and while I can get the tooltip to show it returning the right number, it doesn't seem to apply to any effect I include it in.

[Trenloe]

Thanks for reporting!


Issue 1
Spells with damage entries have 9 blank values under their initial numerical entry when editing/inspecting (the magnifying glass).
I'm not seeing this. Is this a spell from the campaign data list before added to a character or after? Can you give me an example please?


Issue 2
The new character effect tag "{AC}" doesn't seem to work I have tested it in every way I can think, and while I can get the tooltip to show it returning the right number, it doesn't seem to apply to any effect I include it in.
Thanks for reporting. This is related to the HLVL issue mentioned earlier. It was all working before I spent 10 hours on the PCROLL code... ;) Fixed in the next release (R18t6).

[lostsanityreturned]

I'm not seeing this. Is this a spell from the campaign data list before added to a character or after? Can you give me an example please?

It is in the spell entry before being added to the character (and of course after transferal).

Any spell with a damage effect entry has 10 total entries, with each entry not filled being empty.

The following screenshot has been taken with a new campaign with only the core PF2e modules loaded.
45043

[Trenloe]

It is in the spell entry before being added to the character (and of course after transferal).

Any spell with a damage effect entry has 10 total entries, with each entry not filled being empty.

The following screenshot has been taken with a new campaign with only the core PF2e modules loaded.
45043
Thanks for providing more info. I can recreate now - it happens in FGU, not in FGC.

[Trenloe]

It is in the spell entry before being added to the character (and of course after transferal).

Any spell with a damage effect entry has 10 total entries, with each entry not filled being empty.

The following screenshot has been taken with a new campaign with only the core PF2e modules loaded.
45043
Issue identified (and fixed) in the FG modules creation tool. Fix to come in Core Rules... Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[SillyOldeBear]

I don't know whether this is the proper thread to ask about this, but the wonderful work on the Save Effect automation feature with spells makes me wonder this could be applied to non-spell actions. For example, on the Actions tab in the character sheet, we created a section for things that the character can do that are neither weapon attacks nor spells, such as Grapple or Trip. This is implemented as a separate spell class named "Other Actions" with each action coded as a cantrip. This works fairly well since we can associate the effects that would apply to the target as we do for normal spells.

The "next-level" to this would be able to have the dice roll for the check to be automated and then be able to apply all effects based on the result of the dice roll. For Trip, this would be a skill check of the PC's Athletics versus the target's Reflex DC. We could have a D20 icon that would roll the dice for the checks against the target and then store whatever is needed in the target's effects so that the Apply All Effects icon could do its magic to apply the proper effects based on the level of success of the check.

I am not sure whether this can be implemented just for the PFRPG rule set or whether it would require a change to FGC/FGU overall, but this would really make life easier for GMs and players and would encourage them to use these more complicated actions.

[Trenloe]

I don't know whether this is the proper thread to ask about this, but the wonderful work on the Save Effect automation feature with spells makes me wonder this could be applied to non-spell actions. For example, on the Actions tab in the character sheet, we created a section for things that the character can do that are neither weapon attacks nor spells, such as Grapple or Trip. This is implemented as a separate spell class named "Other Actions" with each action coded as a cantrip. This works fairly well since we can associate the effects that would apply to the target as we do for normal spells.

The "next-level" to this would be able to have the dice roll for the check to be automated and then be able to apply all effects based on the result of the dice roll. For Trip, this would be a skill check of the PC's Athletics versus the target's Reflex DC. We could have a D20 icon that would roll the dice for the checks against the target and then store whatever is needed in the target's effects so that the Apply All Effects icon could do its magic to apply the proper effects based on the level of success of the check.

I am not sure whether this can be implemented just for the PFRPG rule set or whether it would require a change to FGC/FGU overall, but this would really make life easier for GMs and players and would encourage them to use these more complicated actions.
Actions such as these will be implemented in a future release. The new spell effects and result tracking system being put in place will be used in this area, and others in future PF2 ruleset releases.

[SillyOldeBear]

I notice that Weapons on the Actions tab can have effects associated with them. Is this new to FGU or this release? I don't see it in FGC. How are these effects applied? Is there automation?

[Trenloe]

I notice that Weapons on the Actions tab can have effects associated with them. Is this new to FGU or this release? I don't see it in FGC. How are these effects applied? Is there automation?
It's part of the test release available for FGU or FGC in the test channel - details of the whole test release are covered in the first few posts of this thread. See the part 2 video linked in post #4 - go to 24:50 for some information on weapon "use" effects.

[SillyOldeBear]

Sorry, I must have forgotten that part of the video. I'd like to suggest being able to do similar things with these weapon effects as you're doing with the spells. Examples would be for Critical Specialization effects and Rogue debilitations.

[Trenloe]

I'd like to suggest being able to do similar things with these weapon effects as you're doing with the spells. Examples would be for Critical Specialization effects and Rogue debilitations.
Maybe... but not for a while... These are niche areas that will be looked at, but there's other areas of the ruleset that will be developed further first.

[Trenloe]

Release 18t6 (test 6) now in the test channel.

I intend this to be the last release before the final "live" candidate is pushed to test next week, unless there are any issues we'll be looking at a move to live on Tuesday April 6th.

These are the fixes, changes and additions:

Fixed:
- Bulwark character effect -{DEX} variable changed to {-DEX}
- Character effect dynamic variables not processing - {AC} {HLVLM1} etc..
- FGU - Core Rules spell damage actions have 10 damage entries, most of them empty.
- spellclass automation from a class feature would raise an error in manager_automation_pfrpg2 (line 699).

Added:
- [HALF] tag to NPC damage automation functionality
- "OpenLink" NPC ability automation to embed a link within an NPC ability text to provide more information - currently only supports spells.
- Empty field generic text for new character effect
- Product "source" field for item and spell records
- "Creature Ability" grouped list for Bestiary abilities.
- Clear PCRoll effects right-click menu CT option.
- Lookup data sidebar button to "create" default list.
- "Source" field to grouped lists.
- Automation "A" icon to grouped lists.

Changed:
- Chargen tracker feat buttons now open individual windows for each button, allowing multiple feat windows to be open.
- Added experimental campaign option for PCROLL functionality "Players roll PC targeted saves" - default is off. Overridden with the ALT button.
- PCROLL save text no longer shows the save DC, nor is it listed in the chat result text.

[Trenloe]

Would it be possible to default to using PCROLL instead of having to Alt-Click?
In the current test release (18t6) there is an experimental campaign option. By default it's off, changing it to on will make all GM targeted save actions use the PCROLL functionality.

Note: the party sheet save mechanism isn't supported for PCROLL functionality.

[Larsenex]

Trenloe,

What does that mean if the PC Sheet does not have PCROLL functionality? If the DM forces the player to roll a 'will save' from a creatures attack or such wouldn't they roll off their sheet under 'will saves'?

I am not in test so this is why I am asking. I have been keeping updated reading your notes and watching the videos.

[Willot]

Trenloe,

What does that mean if the PC Sheet does not have PCROLL functionality? If the DM forces the player to roll a 'will save' from a creatures attack or such wouldn't they roll off their sheet under 'will saves'?

I am not in test so this is why I am asking. I have been keeping updated reading your notes and watching the videos.

The PC Party Sheet has a function where a GM can roll a bunch of skill rolls or saves for the WHOLE party with a DC.
I assume this means the PC PARTY Sheet hasn't been updated with the new code, and doesn't take into account things PCROLL does.

[mla96]

In 18t6, received the following error when a PC attempts a saving throw while the PCROLL effect is applied if the saving throw has no traits applied, such as the dust ability of the Animated Broom. Saving throws with "basic" or other traits function normally.

[ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_action_save.lua"]:161: attempt to concatenate local 'sSaveTraits' (a nil value)

[SillyOldeBear]

How do I get 18t6? I try running the update and it says the version I am running is [TEST] v4.1.0 ULTIMATE (2021-03-16). I assume that means that I don't have t6.

[Trenloe]

What does that mean if the PC Sheet does not have PCROLL functionality? If the DM forces the player to roll a 'will save' from a creatures attack or such wouldn't they roll off their sheet under 'will saves'?
Willot has it right. The Party sheet is different from the PC sheet.

The PCROLL functionality requires a source creature so that the results can be stored against the creature's ability that triggers the save; then a subsequent action uses those results (damage or ApplyAllEffects). The GM triggering a roll from the Party Sheet is just a quick way of doing some rolls for the PCs, the result isn't stored as there's no further actions associated with that roll. If you want the players to actually roll these saves just ask them to make the appropriate saving throw.

[Trenloe]

In 18t6, received the following error when a PC attempts a saving throw while the PCROLL effect is applied if the saving throw has no traits applied, such as the dust ability of the Animated Broom. Saving throws with "basic" or other traits function normally.

[ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_action_save.lua"]:161: attempt to concatenate local 'sSaveTraits' (a nil value)
That's annoying. Thanks for reporting.

[Trenloe]

How do I get 18t6? I try running the update and it says the version I am running is [TEST] v4.1.0 ULTIMATE (2021-03-16). I assume that means that I don't have t6.
Load up a Pathfinder 2E campaign and check the release version reported in the chat window. See the first 20 seconds of the overview video linked in post #1.

[SillyOldeBear]

Okay. I have verified that I have 18t6 running. The {HLVLM1} tag in combat effects is still not working.

[Trenloe]

Okay. I have verified that I have 18t6 running. The {HLVLM1} tag in combat effects is still not working.
I've just checked and it's working for me.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45228

Try changing the effect text, tab out (this will trigger an update of the tooltip hover text), then change the effect text back. See if that updates correctly.

[SillyOldeBear]

Okay. So I made the change as you suggested and the highlight text updates, but the RESIST is not being applied in the combat tracker. If I change it to the static RESIST value instead of the dynamic tag, it applies in the combat tracker.

[Trenloe]

Okay. So I made the change as you suggested and the highlight text updates, but the RESIST is not being applied in the combat tracker. If I change it to the static RESIST value instead of the dynamic tag, it applies in the combat tracker.
Dynamic variables within curly brackets {...} aren't for use in the combat tracker, they're for use in the Character Effects section of the PC combat tab.

[SillyOldeBear]

So if we have a Forge Dwarf PC with "RESIST: {HLVLM1} fire" in their Character Effects and a spell with fire damage is cast at it, the resistance won't be applied to the damage roll in the combat tracker? If it has "RESIST: 4 fire", the damage is reduced, but not if it has "RESIST: {HLVLM1} fire".

[Trenloe]

So if we have a Forge Dwarf PC with "RESIST: {HLVLM1} fire" in their Character Effects and a spell with fire damage is cast at it, the resistance won't be applied to the damage roll in the combat tracker? If it has "RESIST: 4 fire", the damage is reduced, but not if it has "RESIST: {HLVLM1} fire".
Let me look into it. Thanks for reporting.

[lostsanityreturned]

Bugs

Reducing effects
Self reducing effects like frightened don't reduce if they have a bracketed element in them and a value of 1, but reduce fine if they they have a value of 2 or higher

For example:
- "(Saved); Frightened: 1" won't reduce each round as per normal
- "(Saved); Frightened: 3" will reduce to "(Saved); Frightened: 2" and then to "(Saved); Frightened: 1" but no lower (it occasionally removed, but didn't most of the time. I couldn't find what was making it work.
- "Phantasmal Killer; Frightened: 2" will reduce as expected and works fine, as does "test1; test2; test3; Phantasmal Killer; Frightened: 2";

{TAG}
- Appears correctly in the character effects window, none of the curly bracketed tags seem to be working at the moment, ability scores, AC, level. They appear correctly in the tooltip but don't seem to be applied to the character in any way.

Spell damage action entries
- Still have 10 damage entries appearing per damage action on spells for me, I have reloaded the CRB module just in case. The PF2e ruleset version is reading as 18t6 and the file has the right date on it.

[Trenloe]

Reducing effects

{TAG}
Thanks for reporting. Should be (finally) fixed in R18t7.


Spell damage action entries
- Still have 10 damage entries appearing per damage action on spells for me, I have reloaded the CRB module just in case. The PF2e ruleset version is reading as 18t6 and the file has the right date on it.
Sorry, I posted that as fixed. The fix is in the Core Rules DLC and that hasn't been pushed to test yet. Please ignore those extra entries for now! :)

[Pawn]

Is there a way to apply SAVERESULT automation to incapacitation effects when your level exceeds the spell/effect?

[lostsanityreturned]

Request

To have "Stunned: #" reduce in value each round the same as "Frightened: #" reduces.

[Trenloe]

Is there a way to apply SAVERESULT automation to incapacitation effects when your level exceeds the spell/effect?
Use SAVERESULT: +1 on a creature to increase the degree of success of all their saves by 1. This could be manually put on any creature that is more than twice the level of the spell with the incapacitation trait. I plan to automate this better in future (i.e. apply the effect if appropriate) but I don't plan to add it to release 18.

There's no way to currently reduce the result of a vs. DC check.

[Trenloe]

Request

To have "Stunned: #" reduce in value each round the same as "Frightened: #" reduces.
It's not just as simple as reducing the stunned level like frightened does. It reduces the number of actions that turn based on the number of actions available - so there needs to be a good way of indicating that (a chat message will probably be fine), it needs to interact appropriately with slowed and quickened; and also correctly work with minions (including summoned creatures). All possible, but not something I plan to code in release 18. I'll keep it in mind for a future release.

[Trenloe]

@lostsanityreturned - revisiting these:


- With the "[HP *]" tag, is there currently a temporary hitpoint option or is it just ancestry, misc and miscperlevel for now?
Temporary HP are transient and I hadn't envisioned the automation making changes to transient database fields. And the case of temporary HP is a little more complex than just setting a field - the current value needs to be checked, etc.. What's the use case for this?


- With the "[SPELLCLASS *]" tag, is there currently a way to set the proficiency tier of the added spell class (including untrained)?
R18t7 will have this ability.

[lostsanityreturned]

It's not just as simple as reducing the stunned level like frightened does. It reduces the number of actions that turn based on the number of actions available - so there needs to be a good way of indicating that (a chat message will probably be fine), it needs to interact appropriately with slowed and quickened; and also correctly work with minions (including summoned creatures). All possible, but not something I plan to code in release 18. I'll keep it in mind for a future release.

You are correct, I forgot how it worked entirely.

[Pawn]

Use SAVERESULT: +1 on a creature to increase the degree of success of all their saves by 1. This could be manually put on any creature that is more than twice the level of the spell with the incapacitation trait. I plan to automate this better in future (i.e. apply the effect if appropriate) but I don't plan to add it to release 18.

There's no way to currently reduce the result of a vs. DC check.

"SAVERESULT: -1" seems to be working fine for me. Unless you're talking about something else with that last statement

Is there a creature level Operator for effects? I've had luck in automating spells like divine wrath and spiritual anamnesis by tossing an Effect like "IF:TYPE(LN,N,CN);SAVERESULT:+1" and "IF:TYPE(Fiend,Undead,Outsider,Celestial,Monitor,Ex traplanar); SAVERESULT: -1 critical-success;SAVERESULT: -1 failure" respectively

So if there was a creature level operator you could automate by adding a "IF:CR>___; SAVERESULT: +1" effect before casting

[Trenloe]

Release18t7 pushed to test.

Changed:
- Character effects list sort by name.
- width of "source" field in grouped lists widened to 250
- Added a spell casting proficiency field to the "spellclass" PC automation.
- Added [GM] to the NPC ability "Effect" functionality to set effect GM visible only in the combat tracker.

Fixed:
- Chargen feats not showing correctly in the grouped list view if more than one trait, and comma separated.
- Dynamic character effects variables not being used correctly during actions. Hopefully really fixed this time!
- Traits not getting passed correctly to PCROLL saves.
- Auto expiring effects (e.g. Frightened:1) wouldn't expire if there was another effect in the line with brackets.

Core Rules
- Fixed: spell damage actions showing 10 entries, even if empty.
- Second printing errata to the end of Chapter 3.

[Trenloe]

"SAVERESULT: -1" seems to be working fine for me. Unless you're talking about something else with that last statement
I was referring to the VsDC NPC action - where a roll is made versus a PC save DC.



So if there was a creature level operator you could automate by adding a "IF:CR>___; SAVERESULT: +1" effect before casting
The only mathematical operators specifically coded into condition effects are for checking size. There's nothing related to checking level.

[Farnaby]

Don't know if it's relevant in this thread but with the new sidebar colour scheme I cannot tell, in the options, which ones are active.

45297

[Trenloe]

Don't know if it's relevant in this thread but with the new sidebar colour scheme I cannot tell, in the options, which ones are active.

45297
Better?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45299

[Farnaby]

Lots, thanks.

Sorry, old eyes... :cry:

[Runner]

@Trenloe: Do you have an idea when the release date of R18t7 will be?

[Trenloe]

@Trenloe: Do you have an idea when the release date of R18t7 will be?
R18t7 is specifically a test version that is in test now.

Depending on how testing goes with this, I'm hoping that this code base will become release 18 in live. Maybe next week, maybe later. It all depends on how testing goes...

[SillyOldeBear]

Confirming that the {HLVLM1} tag (e.g., for Forge Dwarf) in the Character Effects section of the Combat tab is working, both in the highlight mode and in the combat tracker (the resistance is properly applied). This is a great change as it really reduces the clutter in the combat tracker for persistent character-based or item-based effects. I am excited to see this go live and I will be switching my game from FGC to FGU as soon as possible afterward. From what I can tell, the performance is similar, although I have not had players connected yet. Great job!

[lostsanityreturned]

From what I can tell, the performance is similar, although I have not had players connected yet. Great job!

Warning, for spellcasters the performance tends to tank pretty heavily in FG:U mid levels and beyond. This is a FG:U issue not a PF2e ruleset issue.

Youtube: Example of slowdown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U8t_iU2m44)

Something I have my players doing as a semi solution now is they have two characters, one has their full spell list and their main character is just their prepared spells that they drag over from the full spell list whenever they prep.
It isn't ideal and the slowdown is creeping back in now as they are nearing the high levels, but a partial solution is better than no solution.

I have tried this out on 15 computers total, it is consistent behaviour on all. I still use it regardless because I really like the image layer support in FG:U and hold onto hope that it will be fixed, but if performance is a key concern it is worth mentioning.

It barely has any effect during the early levels though and will tend to kick in noticeably when you get your level 4 spell slots (or level 3 for bard/druid types)

[Milke]

Trenloe needs an online tip jar, I swear. You're always doing stuff that makes our games so much more awesome.

[MaxAstro]

After updating to 18t7, suddenly my PCs can't use darkvision to see creatures. Darkvision still reveals the map correctly, but PCs can't see each other or monsters unless illuminated by light. I haven't changed any map settings that I am aware of since last session.

EDIT: Also, when equipping a hooded lantern, PCs gain two separate, identical hooded lantern effects in the character effects section.
EDIT2: Clarification - most of my PCs get two identical effects; it seems to work fine for one of them. Not sure what the difference is.

[Trenloe]

After updating to 18t7, suddenly my PCs can't use darkvision to see creatures. Darkvision still reveals the map correctly, but PCs can't see each other or monsters unless illuminated by light. I haven't changed any map settings that I am aware of since last session.
I doubt that's to do with the PF2 ruleset. As we're running in test, there are updates to the lighting being made too. Details here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?66972-FG-Unity-Beta-Release-v4-1


EDIT2: Clarification - one of my PCs gets two identical effects, it seems to work fine for the others. Not sure what the difference is.
Could you export the PC XML and upload it here please?

[MaxAstro]

Upon further testing, Trenloe, the PC that only had one entry was because they were already carrying a hooded lantern prior to the update. Unequipping and requipping the lantern causes it to add two effects, like the others.

[Trenloe]

Upon further testing, Trenloe, the PC that only had one entry was because they were already carrying a hooded lantern prior to the update. Unequipping and requipping the lantern causes it to add two effects, like the others.
I can't recreate. Can you export the XML for one of the PCs showing the issue and upload it here please?

[MaxAstro]

So after restarting Fantasy Grounds I stopped being able to fully reproduce - the characters still have two hooded lantern entries, but unequiping and requipping only causes one to disappear instead of both. Don't know if it helps, but here's an XML for a character that still has the duplicate effect.

[Trenloe]

So after restarting Fantasy Grounds I stopped being able to fully reproduce - the characters still have two hooded lantern entries, but unequiping and requipping only causes one to disappear instead of both. Don't know if it helps, but here's an XML for a character that still has the duplicate effect.
Thanks for providing the XML. I'm guessing that the first character effect for the lantern was added with the first iteration of the code, and now it's stuck there. Please try the following:

1) Unequip the lanter.
2) In the character effects list, delete the effects for the lantern.
3) Re-equip the lantern.

The above should then provide only one entry for the lantern.

If two suddenly appear, could you please try to work out steps to recreate the issue?

Thanks!

[JesterOC]

I had seen another post mentioning that detection of tokens using darkvision is broken, can't find that post now but I am seeing the same behavior

version 18t7
Lights on
LOS on
No lights in area
Background shown in grayscale, token not visible
45485

[MaxAstro]

Jester, as Trenloe mentioned that's a bug with the lighting update, not this update. It's also a known bug, apparently.

[JesterOC]

Jester, as Trenloe mentioned that's a bug with the lighting update, not this update. It's also a known bug, apparently.

Got it thanks! I recalled the post but could not find it again for some reason and thus I missed the reply as well. Hopefully it will get fixed by my next game.

[Trenloe]

EDIT: Also, when equipping a hooded lantern, PCs gain two separate, identical hooded lantern effects in the character effects section.
EDIT2: Clarification - most of my PCs get two identical effects; it seems to work fine for one of them. Not sure what the difference is.
I've recreated your issue - it happens when the GM and the player have opened the same PC sheet. This creates two database update handlers - one on the GM computer and one on the player computer. Even closing the PC sheet won't prevent this as the events are kept in memory.

I'll get a fix into the next release.

[Thes33]

"Moved the focus points data for a focus spell class to be stored in one place for the PC. This means that if a PC has multiple focus spell classes they will all use the same focus point pool as per the Core Rules."

This sounds great for actual focus point pools. However, I'm currently using a focus point class to track magical staves, much like I used a power-point class in PF1 for the same purpose. Would it be possible to maintain an analogous point-based spell-class for tracking staves and their associated charges?

[MaxAstro]

If it helps, Thes33, I've found that staves are pretty easy to track as a spontaneous caster class; put all the spells in the same level, give the level a number of casts per day equal to the charges of the staff, and you are good to go. Just mark off a number of casts equal to the charges used whenever a spell is cast.

[Surge]

Just been playing around with the latest FGU update, and came across a problem with Item Effects.

If I add an item with a Light Effect to a PC - such as a candle or lantern - the Effect won't come into effect until I click to add a new Effect on the PC via the CT. As soon as the 'new effect' button is clicked, the light effect in the PC Perm Effects bit begins to work. This also applies when toggling the effect off and on in the Char Sheet Perm. Effects bit - nothing will change until an empty Effect is added via the CT.

[Surge]

Edit: I suspect this issue has been fixed by today's CoreRPG hotfix, but I haven't had time to check it yet.


I'm also getting an error, but only on the Client side (GM doesn't experience it), when the client first connects to the GM, or whenever an image is shared with the client.

https://i.imgur.com/bdnpcM3.png

No Extensions are loaded.

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

After the latest conditions tab change you can no longer shift or alt click (I cannot remember which it was) conditions to get a description of the condition

Also, the window height is too small to fit all the conditions now and requires resizing when opened

[flashgordon]

I received this error after adding the Bard class to a character via the Tracker:
[ERROR] Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_gamesystem.lua"]:460: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'profBonus' (a nil value)

[Stargrove]

THis thread has gotten sort of quiet in the last several weeks but I have not heard anything new about a possible release date. Curious if there are any updates?

[flashgordon]

I believe they are waiting for FGU to release to v4.1

[Stargrove]

Is that the upcoming "lighting update"? Given the issues they seem to be having with lighting it could be a while before this gets released. That makes me a little sad...:cry:.

[Trenloe]

"Moved the focus points data for a focus spell class to be stored in one place for the PC. This means that if a PC has multiple focus spell classes they will all use the same focus point pool as per the Core Rules."

This sounds great for actual focus point pools. However, I'm currently using a focus point class to track magical staves, much like I used a power-point class in PF1 for the same purpose. Would it be possible to maintain an analogous point-based spell-class for tracking staves and their associated charges?
There'll be a better way to track things like this in release 19 or 20. Hopefully @MaxAstro's suggestion will tide you over until then.

[Trenloe]

If I add an item with a Light Effect to a PC - such as a candle or lantern - the Effect won't come into effect until I click to add a new Effect on the PC via the CT. As soon as the 'new effect' button is clicked, the light effect in the PC Perm Effects bit begins to work. This also applies when toggling the effect off and on in the Char Sheet Perm. Effects bit - nothing will change until an empty Effect is added via the CT.
Thanks for reporting. This issue occurs when the player equips the item (which is the main use case, so not great). R18t8 has the character effect code completely re-written to fix issues like this. The re-write is one of the main reasons for the delay in moving this into live.

[Trenloe]

Edit: I suspect this issue has been fixed by today's CoreRPG hotfix, but I haven't had time to check it yet.


I'm also getting an error, but only on the Client side (GM doesn't experience it), when the client first connects to the GM, or whenever an image is shared with the client.

https://i.imgur.com/bdnpcM3.png

No Extensions are loaded.
Please let me know if this is still an issue.

[Trenloe]

After the latest conditions tab change you can no longer shift or alt click (I cannot remember which it was) conditions to get a description of the condition
Thanks for reporting. I'll get that fixed in the next release.


Also, the window height is too small to fit all the conditions now and requires resizing when opened
There's now a scroll bar in the button section. The effects/conditions window is already quite tall, and the default size can't be increased much (not to completely eliminate the scroll bar) otherwise users on screens less that 1080p resolution won't be able to use it correctly.

[Trenloe]

THis thread has gotten sort of quiet in the last several weeks but I have not heard anything new about a possible release date. Curious if there are any updates?
There's been a lot of work going on in the background. I've been working directly with SmiteWorks to integrate a lot of the character/item effect code, and PC automation, into a structure that can be used by other rulesets. This has taken a while to do. And also, with FG Con starting today, I've been tied up with admin/organizational work for that.

To clarify - Release 18 is not reliant on FG 4.1. The release 18 code will be pushed to live when I feel it's ready and has been tested enough. I'm hoping that will be in the next 2-3 weeks, but there's a lot that can derail that.

[thepope]

I was watching the videos on the release 18 and was wondering about the Character Effects box on the sheets. Will effects applied be reflected on the character sheets or is it more like the Combat Tracker?

For example: There is a "SKILL: 1 item, stealth" in the Effects box. Will the Skill tab display the modified total in the skill's Total box or will it only apply the +1 when a roll is made?

BTW Thanks for all the work, release 18 is looking very good.

[Trenloe]

I was watching the videos on the release 18 and was wondering about the Character Effects box on the sheets. Will effects applied be reflected on the character sheets or is it more like the Combat Tracker?

For example: There is a "SKILL: 1 item, stealth" in the Effects box. Will the Skill tab display the modified total in the skill's Total box or will it only apply the +1 when a roll is made?
Character effects essentially work the same way and adjust the roll (action), not the base character sheet data. Depending on what you're trying to do, you could use the character automation to change values on a character sheet, but these won't always have the same flexibility as effects (e.g. there's no way to specify a skill bonus of type "item" directly on the skills tab).


BTW Thanks for all the work, release 18 is looking very good.
Thanks!

[flashgordon]

For some reason, one of the characters that I was working on for my campaign has, instead of the Perception dice roll button, 3 buttons named Spot, Listen and Search. Each of these buttons do a untrained skill check with no bonus. Only one of the characters has this. How do I get the perception back?

45921

45920

[flashgordon]

I am also getting this error when opening the character:

[flashgordon]

I will note that that error seems to pop up every time I add the Bard class to a character during creation. I am on the test branch. In order to repro the perception button getting replaced, create a bard character, close fantasy grounds then reopen the campaign, and then open that character.

[Trenloe]

Moved to the Release 18 test thread.


For some reason, one of the characters that I was working on for my campaign has, instead of the Perception dice roll button, 3 buttons named Spot, Listen and Search. Each of these buttons do a untrained skill check with no bonus. Only one of the characters has this. How do I get the perception back?

45921

45920


I am also getting this error when opening the character:
Thanks for reporting the error (which causes the button issue). The error has been reported before and is fixed in the next release (R18t8).

[Trenloe]

Update on Release 18.

I'm working on (hopefully) the final test version (R18t8). I'm working through updates for resistances/weaknesses, catering for precision/critical damage correctly and also multiple damage instances, based off this guidance Paizo form post from one of the main devs: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42bxf?Two-Small-Flaws-in-the-Weakness-System#24

I'm hoping to get this into test in the next 2-3 days - and will then leave it for testing/review for at least a week before considering moving to live.

CoreRPG updates that this relied on have been implemented in live, so there's nothing holding it back other than making sure it's ready for live gaming. Probably coming to live a Tuesday in May(be)...

[Larsenex]

Trenloe,

This is Fantastic news! Thank you for your very hard and much appreciated work!

[Pyaray76]

Great News, thank you very much, Trenloe!

[Farnaby]

Woot!

[Larsenex]

Is Trenloe the same person as that really cool Scottish guy on our you tube (how to do lighting) videos?

[Milke]

He's the guy that has the lighting videos, yea.

[Benlyd]

Is Trenloe the same person as that really cool Scottish guy on our you tube (how to do lighting) videos?

He's the guy that has the lighting videos, yea.

As far as I am aware, Trenloe's personal channel is the one they link to in the first post.
I believe with "the really cool Scottish guy" you are refering to Philip Greig, which I believe would actually be Zacchaeus. This would also fit with their listed location.

There is one question I have. Sorry if I missed it while checking this thread and your linked documents Trenloe:
Armor now also has the "Properties" line. What is the proper wording to apply a resilient rune? I at first guessed "Resilient", just like it is simply "Striking" for weapons, but this did not seem to work on my end.

[Trenloe]

As far as I am aware, Trenloe's personal channel is the one they link to in the first post.
I believe with "the really cool Scottish guy" you are refering to Philip Greig, which I believe would actually be Zacchaeus. This would also fit with their listed location.
Dammit! That spoils my fun with seeing how far the misinformation would go... ;)


Armor now also has the "Properties" line. What is the proper wording to apply a resilient rune? I at first guessed "Resilient", just like it is simply "Striking" for weapons, but this did not seem to work on my end.
It's always had the properties line. But nothing's been done with it - neither in previous releases or release 18.

Resilient runes, with release 18, can be covered with an item automation entry of: [EFFECT equip SAVE: 1 item] (This is release 18t8 syntax).

[Zacchaeus]

is trenloe the same person as that really cool scottish guy on our you tube (how to do lighting) videos?


he's the guy that has the lighting videos, yea.

lol

[Farnaby]

Just tried to add a character effect to simulate a Pendant of the Occult "While wearing the pendant, you gain a +1 item bonus to Occultism checks".

I tried using the effects like you did in your video with ATK: 1 status and entered SKILL: 1 item occultism, this did not work.
So I went to the item and added it there.
EFFECT: item SKILL: 1 item, occultism works but only when I equip the item and I want it to work when I carry it.
I tried swapping the item with carry also tried item: carry, items: carry but they all didn't work.
How does the item keyword work?

[Trenloe]

Just tried to add a character effect to simulate a Pendant of the Occult "While wearing the pendant, you gain a +1 item bonus to Occultism checks".

I tried using the effects like you did in your video with ATK: 1 status and entered SKILL: 1 item occultism, this did not work.
If you enter the effect directly in the character effects section then you need to enter the effect in the effect line not the source name - click the magnifying glass to reveal the effect line (the one with the effect icon to the left).


So I went to the item and added it there.
EFFECT: item SKILL: 1 item, occultism works but only when I equip the item and I want it to work when I carry it.
I tried swapping the item with carry also tried item: carry, items: carry but they all didn't work.
How does the item keyword work?
In R18t7 [EFFECT item...] only works when an item is equipped. In R18t8 (which I hope to release into test this next week) there are additional options as detailed in the google doc - [EFFECT equip...] (equivalent to the current EFFECT item) and [EFFECT carry...]

The "Pendant of the Occult" is an invested item, so I'd use [EFFECT item...] as is now - it only provides the benefits when invested (treat that as equipped). Just wearing it without investing (e.g. carrying) won't give any of the benefits.

[Farnaby]

If you enter the effect directly in the character effects section then you need to enter the effect in the effect line not the source name - click the magnifying glass to reveal the effect line (the one with the effect icon to the left).
I did that and just found out that I screwed up by missing the comma between item and occultism.. :-(


In R18t7 [EFFECT item...] only works when an item is equipped. In R18t8 (which I hope to release into test this next week) there are additional options as detailed in the google doc - [EFFECT equip...] (equivalent to the current EFFECT item) and [EFFECT carry...]

The "Pendant of the Occult" is an invested item, so I'd use [EFFECT item...] as is now - it only provides the benefits when invested (treat that as equipped). Just wearing it without investing (e.g. carrying) won't give any of the benefits.
Nice, looking forward to new stuff.

Thanks.

[Farnaby]

Everburning Torch does not add it's automation effects to the character effects tab.

[Trenloe]

Everburning Torch does not add it's automation effects to the character effects tab.
Is it carried or equipped? It works fine for me when I equip the item, which is what it's designed to do.

[Farnaby]

Hmm, equipped.
I'm running 18t7 with no extensions.

Okay, I'm going to bury my head in shame here and stop bothering you.
It was an imported PC and of course I needed to add the Everburning Torch from the test items as that one has the automation....

I will try to figure stuff out for longer than 20 mins before asking here :(

[Trenloe]

Okay, I'm going to bury my head in shame here and stop bothering you.
It was an imported PC and of course I needed to add the Everburning Torch from the test items as that one has the automation....

I will try to figure stuff out for longer than 20 mins before asking here :(
Hehe - that's cool, I appreciate you using the test version and giving feedback.

[Trenloe]

New update in test today - R18t8, which I'm hoping will be the release candidate that will get pushed to live if testing goes OK.

Main things to look for

Character effects now sync to the Combat Tracker (CT), but are read only in the CT - they're only modified via the PC character effects. Having them in the CT allows all FG instances (GM and players) to access the effects and facilitate IF and IFT conditional effects correctly. Weapon effects remain in the weapon entry as they don't need to be in the CT to be used.

Damage immunity, weakness and resistance code has been completely rewritten to fully represent PF2 rules and clarifications such as this: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42bxf?Two-Small-Flaws-in-the-Weakness-System#24 I'm sure there'll be some edge cases that I hadn't foreseen to tested. But hopefully this will be a lot better at recreating the PF2 damage rules than previous releases.

Class Kits have been added to the Core Rules DLC.

Ruleset:

Changed:
- Character effects sync to CT effects (read only).
- Attack result process and message changes:
-- Simplified attack result message string
-- Attack IFT ATK effects moved to apply to original roll, not result display. As per 2021-04-20 ruleset changes.
-- Reworked the attack result string.
-- Converted modifier button cover attack meta data to be LCOVER, COVER and GCOVER.
- Save result message - actor name moved to the start of the message.
- Complete rewrite of immune, weakness and resistance calculations and damage instances.
- Re-work of resistance calculations for exceptions and in particular "double resistance vs. non-magical"
- Effects code use new ActorManager.getEffects(rActor) and ActorManager.addActiveEffectNode(rActor, nodeWeapon) code.
- Changed [EFFECT item ...] automation. [EFFECT carry ...] and [EFFECT equip ...] added to allow character effect to be activated based off item being carried (includes equipped) or equipped only.

Added:
- Calculate inventory total item values to highest coin denominator. e.g. 10 sp converted to 1 gp
- Class kit functionality
- Character effects dynamic variables XRef functionality and details window.
- ITEM automation - used to add items to the character
- alignment damage immunity.

FIXED:
- FGU "sheetfocus" warning.
- ALT-click on condition wouldn't display lookup data description.
- Script execution error: [string "scripts/manager_gamesystem.lua"]:460: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'profBonus' (a nil value) - when adding some classes with spells.
- "double resistance vs. non-magical" effects for incorporeal creatures correctly parsed and applied to NPCs when added to the Combat Tracker.
- RS2.097 and RS2.107 - Immunity, Weakness and Resistance issues.


Core Rules DLC:

- Some example automation updates.
- Addition of class kits.

[JesterOC]

Found a work around to my lighting / darkvision bug.

At some point the core lighting rules broke the darkvision rules for Pathfinder 2e (It worked for a few weeks into this test then stopped working). It now needs a distance attached to the word darkvision for it to calculate token visibility correctly. I have tested with with darkvision 2000 and it now works correctly.

See this for more details.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?68126-For-several-weeks-now-a-token-in-darkness-is-not-visible-to-a-token-with-darkvision

[Moon Wizard]

This is working for me for any creature that has "Darkvision" in Senses; or for any token linked to combat tracker entry with "VISION: darkvision" effect.

How were you getting effects to apply with numbers?

Regards,
JPG

[Trenloe]

Found a work around to my lighting / darkvision bug.

At some point the core lighting rules broke the darkvision rules for Pathfinder 2e (It worked for a few weeks into this test then stopped working). It now needs a distance attached to the word darkvision for it to calculate token visibility correctly. I have tested with with darkvision 2000 and it now works correctly.

See this for more details.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?68126-For-several-weeks-now-a-token-in-darkness-is-not-visible-to-a-token-with-darkvision
As responded in that thread, this isn't a PF2 specific issue. Please continue discussion in that thread and not this one. Thanks.

[JesterOC]

As responded in that thread, this isn't a PF2 specific issue. Please continue discussion in that thread and not this one. Thanks.

Understood only because another forum user suggested that it might be a PF2 issue, I thought I would mention it here just in case they were right. And that was before you replied so I am sorry for cluttering up this thread with this.

[Trenloe]

Release 18t9 has been pushed to the test channel.

Barring any major issues, I'm targeting this for release to live Tuesday 11th May. If anyone is considering testing this please do so now - I'd like help doing some final testing to catch issues before this goes into the live environment. Thanks to anyone who assists, or has already assisted, with testing for this release.

Ruleset:

Fixed:
- Multiple damage immunities only processing the first damage instance.
- Error when importing a PC with items containing character effect automation

Added:
- Chargen tracker message to train a different skill if current skill is at least trained.
- Option to add class equipment kit after applying step 4 (Free boosts) in chargen tracker at level 1.
- DMGTPE and DMGSTYPE effects are now targetable.
- "Dedication" trait type to feat filter.

Core Rules DLC

Second Printing errata updates to end of Chapter 6 - Equipment (page 295).

[Stargrove]

Not sure if this is a PF2E or CoreRPG Ruleset thing or if it is really a bug per se. Either way it is a minor thing.

Noted that when leveling up a character in FGC that the new level number value did not register in the Character Selection window. I had to close the Character Selection windows and reopen it for it to show up properly.

[Trenloe]

Not sure if this is a PF2E or CoreRPG Ruleset thing or if it is really a bug per se. Either way it is a minor thing.

Noted that when leveling up a character in FGC that the new level number value did not register in the Character Selection window. I had to close the Character Selection windows and reopen it for it to show up properly.
That's standard across CoreRPG based rulesets in general - data in the character selection window isn't dynamic to that level.

[lostsanityreturned]

bug?

The following introduces blank read only effects to the combat tracker, not sure if this is the intent or not (personally I was terrified of them showing up as it defeats the purpose of character effects simplifying the combat tracker display for me)


Character effects*now sync to the Combat Tracker (CT), but are read only in the CT - they're only modified via the PC character effects. Having them in the CT allows all FG instances (GM and players) to access the effects and facilitate IF and IFT conditional effects correctly. Weapon effects remain in the weapon entry as they don't need to be in the CT to be used.

[Trenloe]

bug?

The following introduces blank read only effects to the combat tracker, not sure if this is the intent or not (personally I was terrified of them showing up as it defeats the purpose of character effects simplifying the combat tracker display for me)
They should only appear blank if you're adding a character effect and don't add any actual effect text. I could change it to not send a blank effect to the combat tracker?

Otherwise, could you upload a PC XML that is causing the issue.

Edit: The purpose of character effects is not specifically simplify the combat tracker display; it’s to give more functionality driven from the character sheet, including dynamic variables. The exact display of these is still up for debate. The effects have to be in the CT to allow targeted effects from other player controlled actors to work correctly.

[Farnaby]

They should only appear blank if you're adding a character effect and don't add any actual effect text. I could change it to not send a blank effect to the combat tracker?

Otherwise, could you upload a PC XML that is causing the issue.

Edit: The purpose of character effects is not specifically simplify the combat tracker display; it’s to give more functionality driven from the character sheet, including dynamic variables. The exact display of these is still up for debate. The effects have to be in the CT to allow targeted effects from other player controlled actors to work correctly.

Nope, look at the screenshot below, 3 character effects turned on and all entries are blank.
Effects do not work. Character xml is attached.

46275

[Edit] I just added a space and deleted it again in the effect text and it appears properly now as well as working.

46277

[Trenloe]

Nope, look at the screenshot below, 3 character effects turned on and all entries are blank.
Effects do not work. Character xml is attached.

46275

[Edit] I just added a space and deleted it again in the effect text and it appears properly now as well as working.

46277
Thanks for providing the XML. I see an issue with characters that had these present before the R18t8 code changes. I'll get a fix in the next release. For now you can just cycle the item back round to equip, or make a change to the effect string in the character effect - e.g. add a space at the end then delete it.

[Farnaby]

FYI, cycling it round didn't work, only editing the effect string.

[lostsanityreturned]

The poster above me has it right and it is what I was trying to explain prior, I was going to take some screenshots but they have already beaten me to the punch.


Edit: The purpose of character effects is not specifically simplify the combat tracker display; it’s to give more functionality driven from the character sheet, including dynamic variables. The exact display of these is still up for debate. The effects have to be in the CT to allow targeted effects from other player controlled actors to work correctly.

I figured as much since you made the change, but it is still a shame. My players characters will be flooded with 4-7 lines of effects like they used to be, burying important active effects amongst known automation.

It would be nice if combat tracker effects had a gm/all/hidden set of options.
Similar to how effects from the effect panel have a gm/all option, but the last option hiding them from GM sight on the combat tracker too if necessary like it was working before this 18t8

To illustrate how I have it set up currently on one of my player's spirit rage barbarian. I have the following character effects:

Rage "IF:CUSTOM(Rage); DMG: 2, melee; AC: -1; Raging Resistance; IF:CUSTOM(agile); DMG: -1;"

Spirit Rage (positive) "IF:CUSTOM(Spirit Rage positive); DMG: 7, melee; DMGTYPE: positive, ghost touch; AC: -1; Raging Resistance; IF:CUSTOM(agile); DMG: -4;"

Spirit Rage (negative) "IF:CUSTOM(Spirit Rage negative); DMG: 7, melee; DMGTYPE: negative, ghost touch; AC: -1; Raging Resistance; IF:CUSTOM(agile); DMG: -4;"

Raging Resistance "IF:CUSTOM(Raging Resistance); IFT:TYPE(Undead); RESIST: {CON}+3 all"

(the agile from IF agile is just an effect I have put into weapons as a stopgap for rage, it isn't actually reading whether the weapon has the agile trait or not)

Currently the character in the combat tracker puts on one of three effects to have all of the above be taken into consideration.
- Rage
- Spirit Rage positive
- Spirit Rage negative

And then that is all that displays in the combat tracker while everything else is automated behind the scene. Because at levels 7-9+ having spell effects active, magical item active effects, alchemical item effects and more, it becomes chaotic to an extreme.

Anyway, this is not a request to change it, just a mourning the loss of a feature I thought had been intended but was obviously not.

[Trenloe]

Anyway, this is not a request to change it, just a mourning the loss of a feature I thought had been intended but was obviously not.
That was a minor part of the character effects, but not the main drive for it.

I've already coded a filter for the effect type ("ct" or "char") in the code, it's just how to integrate this nicely into an already crowded GUI. "The effects have to be in the CT..." doesn't mean the effects have to be visible in the CT. :) No need to mourn. Leave it with me...

[Lowlander]

I've already coded a filter for the effect type ("ct" or "char") in the code, it's just how to integrate this nicely into an already crowded GUI.

It sounds like something that would be fine in the settings to turn on or off for me. I'd actually not expect it in the CT UI to be honest. Between the paladin (oath, smite evil, etc.) and the ranger (hunt prey) and various runes, resistances there's more effects in the CT that are always on than situational effects at times. While it might not be the main driver, for us the main thing to look forward to regarding this feature was de-cluttering the CT a bit.

[Trenloe]

It sounds like something that would be fine in the settings to turn on or off for me. I'd actually not expect it in the CT UI to be honest. Between the paladin (oath, smite evil, etc.) and the ranger (hunt prey) and various runes, resistances there's more effects in the CT that are always on than situational effects at times. While it might not be the main driver, for us the main thing to look forward to regarding this feature was de-cluttering the CT a bit.
I'll certainly look into a way to implement this. Like I said, the code is already there. I currently have them all visible mostly from a testing perspective, which I think is needed for initial testing and feedback. Without the character effects being initially visible in the CT we may not have identified the blank effect issue reported above.

I don't think using the campaign options is the way to go. I see this being the type of thing that a user may briefly check if things aren't working the way they expect (are all the effects actually synced to the CT?) then go back to not showing the character effects.

[Trenloe]

R18T10 is in test as of today.

This has functionality to show/hide character effects in the CT.

Important: These control purely determine if the character effects are shown in the CT. They don't turn those effects on or off - the control of the character effects is from the character sheet, either manually by the player or through Release 18 automation.

The control is different for the GM and player. The GM controls this in the CT directly:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46380

The PCs control this via the "Character Effects" section of their character sheet:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46379

New PCs will default to off, but existing PCs will show as on and will need to be turned off. The setting is maintained between sessions, so once set will remain until changed.

[SillyOldeBear]

R18T10 is in test as of today.

This has functionality to show/hide character effects in the CT.

I just tried this out and it works beautifully (from the GM's perspective). Bravo! When does this get to the Live environment?

[Farnaby]

R18T10 is in test as of today.

This has functionality to show/hide character effects in the CT.

That's brilliant! Thanks Trenloe

[Trenloe]

I just tried this out and it works beautifully (from the GM's perspective). Bravo! When does this get to the Live environment?
R18T10 is the current release candidate. I'd like it to get some testing for a week or more before I consider moving it into live.

I'm not sure how many people are testing this now we've been through ten test releases. So, if you're using R18T10 please let me know either way - if there are issues, or if it's running fine.

[Pyaray76]

Hi everyone,
1. in GM mode i cant see anything, for example the crossed out "CT" on the pc sheet, what iam doing wrong?
2. Line of sight and lightning does not work correctly, in play mode everything went black :(

regards Sören

[Trenloe]

1. in GM mode i cant see anything, for example the crossed out "CT" on the pc sheet, what iam doing wrong?
GMs don't get the CT control in the PC sheet, only the players.


2. Line of sight and lightning does not work correctly, in play mode everything went black :(
Do you have a lighting effect on the PC? Have you selected a token on the map? What are the map settings?

[Pyaray76]

thank you for your quick reply, get it working again... enabled/disabled buttons were on/off Lighting and line of sight, sorry to bother you.

I thought character effects from Items and abilites, like rage or sneak attack are also in the 18t10 release?

[Trenloe]

I thought character effects from Items and abilites, like rage or sneak attack are also in the 18t10 release?
Only if there's the "A" automation indicator shown for any ability.

If you haven't watched them already, I recommend you watch the videos linked in post #4.

[Larsenex]

Trenloe,

Regarding the wounding rune for players which adds 1d6 persistent bleed to each hit.
What our group has been doing is rolling outside of the CT a 1d6 and I am adding that number as PERS to the target.

Will release 18 allow us to add the random 1d6 and add the persistent bleed to a target if that rune/effect is added to a weapon?

[Trenloe]

Trenloe,

Regarding the wounding rune for players which adds 1d6 persistent bleed to each hit.
What our group has been doing is rolling outside of the CT a 1d6 and I am adding that number as PERS to the target.

Will release 18 allow us to add the random 1d6 and add the persistent bleed to a target if that rune/effect is added to a weapon?
You can do this in the current release:
1) Add the persistent damage effect as PERS: 1d6 bleed - changes every round, it's not static.
2) Or add another damage entry to the weapon with a d6 damage and type of "persistent, bleed" - this will apply the PERS: 1d6 bleed when damage is rolled on a target.

The critical 1d12 persistent bleed isn't handled at present, so that will have to be manually adjusted by the GM after it's been applied.

[Zaister]

Trenloe,

Regarding the wounding rune for players which adds 1d6 persistent bleed to each hit.
What our group has been doing is rolling outside of the CT a 1d6 and I am adding that number as PERS to the target.

Will release 18 allow us to add the random 1d6 and add the persistent bleed to a target if that rune/effect is added to a weapon?

That's not quite how it works, you should roll each round, so the effect should be "PERS: 1d6 bleed" to the target.

Oops, ninjaed by Trenloe, who sneakily posted on the next page! :D

[Larsenex]

This is off topic to the release, but is the wounding rune supposed to be a random application of Bleed dmg (re rolled each round)? Thus on the initial application it can be PERS 1 and next round it could b PERS 6 and the following round PERS 2.

Is this how its supposed to work?

[MaxAstro]

Yes; many persistent damage effects in 2e are dice instead of flat amounts, and you roll the dice each time the damage is applied. From the CRB on persistent damage:

Instead of taking persistent damage immediately, you take it at the end of each of your turns as long as you have the condition, rolling any damage dice anew each time.

Emphasis mine.

[Stargrove]

Trenloe, do things look to be on schedule for LIVE release this week (5/10 to 5/14) or is it looking more like next week?

[lostsanityreturned]

Not so much a bug but something to consider. NPC spellcasters don't have an option for setting their ability bonus, and as such spells with "base" don't have anything to read from (mentioning as A18 has brought base into spells and I can see this being a pain for module creators).

[Trenloe]

Not so much a bug but something to consider. NPC spellcasters don't have an option for setting their ability bonus, and as such spells with "base" don't have anything to read from (mentioning as A18 has brought base into spells and I can see this being a pain for module creators).
I cant' find anything in the Core Rules, Gamemastery Guide or Bestiary that indicate what casting stat NPCs use for spellcasting. Innate spells, in theory, should be Charisma (Core Rules page 302) but don't know if, by design NPC spellcasters don't specifically apply a spellcasting ability - i.e it's all already calculated in the spellcasting DC and attack stats. But, this does of course mess with some spells (Daze being a simple example). OK, so you can take a guess based off the tradition, but this is not 100% accurate.

Have you seen an official source saying what spellcasting ability an NPC should have?

[Trenloe]

Trenloe, do things look to be on schedule for LIVE release this week (5/10 to 5/14) or is it looking more like next week?
Not this week. Maybe next week; probably the week after that. I just don't feel that this has had enough testing. I simulate gameplay testing regularly and use it to game once a week. In each gaming session I uncover an issue. Not a major game stopping one, but an issue nonetheless.

[Trenloe]

Update:

Release to live provisionally set to Tuesday May 25th, 2021. Subject to change based on continued testing.

[Dargos]

1st: Thank you for all your hard work!

2nd: I'm going to start testing today, with Extinction Curse (book 1).

3th: Just a few spells are automatized, right? Is there a list of automated spells? This would help us to differentiate between those that have no optimization and those that have, but are incorrect.

[Trenloe]

1st: Thank you for all your hard work!

2nd: I'm going to start testing today, with Extinction Curse (book 1).

3th: Just a few spells are automatized, right? Is there a list of automated spells? This would help us to differentiate between those that have no optimization and those that have, but are incorrect.
Thanks for doing some testing. If you open a spell from the campaign data list, not once added to a PC, and it has actions in it - then that’s a spell that has the actions already added.

[Dargos]

Ok, but the spells from Core Rules?

E.G.:

The spell Fear from the Core Rules is correct:46525

But the spell Charm isn't automatized: 46526

The Acid Splash isn't automatized, but have the persistent effect: 46527

The Produce Flame isn't automatized and the persistent effect is a "Spell Action: Damage"(?): 46528

[Trenloe]

The spells aren’t complete yet - most of them are a conversion from ShadeRaven's module with some updates. This is an ongoing process - especially for new release 18 functionality.

Edit: please don’t set out to do a review of the spells. I already have an excellent list from lostanityreturned and these will be updated over the next couple of weeks. I’m more interested in ruleset functionality testing rather than minor data issues at this point.

[Trenloe]

R18t11 is now in the test channel.

Fixes and improvements to the PCROLL functionality.

Fixed:
- PCROLL functionality not operating correctly with no save traits.
- ApplyAllEffects not operating correctly with no traits and PCROLL saves.

Updated:
- PCROLL internal reference keeps the same ID for saves from the same ability, DC and creature CT record.
- PCROLL effects with the same ID won't be added to the CT.

[Lowlander]

4.1 is now released and it seems to be working fine with release 17e for me. If I backup my campaign folders now I assume I can switch to the test channel and test with release 18t11 and put the campaign folder backups back afterwards?

For 4.0 -> 4.1 it explicitly says that after opening it the campaign itself can't be opened in 4.0 anymore without data loss. Does the same apply for the PF2 ruleset or should I be able to go back and forth between test and live now that I'm on 4.1?

Just want to help out and test!

Thanks for all the work everyone.

[Trenloe]

For 4.0 -> 4.1 it explicitly says that after opening it the campaign itself can't be opened in 4.0 anymore without data loss. Does the same apply for the PF2 ruleset or should I be able to go back and forth between test and live now that I'm on 4.1?
You may experience some issues going back to Release 17 after using PCs in release 18. I can't think of anything major, but I also didn't code anything with going back in mind.

[kaernunnos]

Is there a way to multiply an effect by a condition's level? For example Fearsome Brute (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=402) which adds damage as double frightened level? Or should I just have multiple versions like "IFT: Frightened 1; DMG: 2 circumstance;", "IFT: Frightened 2; DMG: 4 circumstance;", etc?

[Trenloe]

Is there a way to multiply an effect by a condition's level? For example Fearsome Brute (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=402) which adds damage as double frightened level? Or should I just have multiple versions like "IFT: Frightened 1; DMG: 2 circumstance;", "IFT: Frightened 2; DMG: 4 circumstance;", etc?
You can't do that directly with an effect. IFT only checks against conditions without variable values - basically the exact name of the condition as listed in the campaign effects window. Something for the future maybe, but can't be done now.

[kaernunnos]

You can't do that directly with an effect. IFT only checks against conditions without variable values - basically the exact name of the condition as listed in the campaign effects window. Something for the future maybe, but can't be done now.

Oh well. Guess I'll just use simple DMG effects and turn them on/off as appropriate.

[Benlyd]

Finally got around to test Release 18 extensively. It is simply wonderful how much I can automate now.
But there is seems to be something that either alludes me or is currently not possible:

Can an effect use the Overnight Rest mechanic as a trigger to apply/activate an effect?
My specific example would be the Stalwart's Ring from the Fall of Plaguestone adventure.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=480

As far as I understand, the Overnight Rest does not apply as an effect that could trigger an "IF:" effect. But if did, would it be something along the lines of "IF: Overnight Rest; HEAL: [Self] 5 temporary"? Or is there something obvious I missed while checking the reference document?

[Trenloe]

Can an effect use the Overnight Rest mechanic as a trigger to apply/activate an effect?
It can't.


As far as I understand, the Overnight Rest does not apply as an effect that could trigger an "IF:" effect. But if did, would it be something along the lines of "IF: Overnight Rest; HEAL: [Self] 5 temporary"?
IF/IFT conditional modifiers only work, when triggered as part of an FG action (usually a roll), off condition names or custom labels on the actor (IF) or on the target of the roll (IFT).

Handle this manually by setting up a spell class, call it something like "Magic Items", and add a "spell" called Stalwart's Ring with an appropriate heal action. Then, when the PC carries out their daily preparations, the player can click the heal button to apply the temporary HP.

[lostsanityreturned]

Bug

Weapon/Item effects don't apply when the field (attack or damage) is dragged, only when the field is double clicked.

e.g. add DMG: 1 fire to a weapon, if the damage is double clicked it will roll with the fire damage added, if it is clicked and dragged to the chat window or the target it won't apply the fire damage or any effect.

This includes ATK or any IF or IFT that are nested into the weapon.

[Trenloe]

Bug

Weapon/Item effects don't apply when the field (attack or damage) is dragged, only when the field is double clicked.

e.g. add DMG: 1 fire to a weapon, if the damage is double clicked it will roll with the fire damage added, if it is clicked and dragged to the chat window or the target it won't apply the fire damage or any effect.

This includes ATK or any IF or IFT that are nested into the weapon.
Thanks so much for reporting! I really appreciate the testing and feedback you give.

This is an issue in the new CoreRPG effect code I've been working on with SmiteWorks (so that item effects code can be handled similarly across rulesets). I've identified the issue and will discuss with SmiteWorks the best way to address.

Thanks again for reporting.

[Farnaby]

Perhaps a stupid question, but now you save the results of the saving throws to apply the appropriate effect, is there anywqy to use this mechanism to do the same for dice results so that we can double damage instead of rolling twice?

[Trenloe]

Perhaps a stupid question, but now you save the results of the saving throws to apply the appropriate effect, is there anywqy to use this mechanism to do the same for dice results so that we can double damage instead of rolling twice?
It's a completely different structure.

I do have it on my list code to offer the option to double damage instead of rolling the additional dice. The way fantasy grounds sets up damage makes this incredibly complex - especially as some dice have to be added before the roll (which usually aren't doubled) and then only some dice/modifiers get doubled. Putting everything in place before the roll - that is, as is done now, by adding in the extra dice and modifiers, makes everything fit together with the whole FG asynchronous dice rolling, dice effects, and how immunity, weakness and resistance work. If it was just a case of doubling all damage this would have been done ages ago, but it's not...

[lostsanityreturned]

Just while I remember, is it on the roadmap to have the flat-footed modifier button act as a trigger for conditionals?

e.g. "IF:Flat-footed; DMG: 2d6 precision" being set to a character effect for something like sneak attack and then having it trigger if the target has a condition that makes it flat-footed or they push the Flat-footed button in the modifier window?

[Trenloe]

Just while I remember, is it on the roadmap to have the flat-footed modifier button act as a trigger for conditionals?

e.g. "IF:Flat-footed; DMG: 2d6 precision" being set to a character effect for something like sneak attack and then having it trigger if the target has a condition that makes it flat-footed or they push the Flat-footed button in the modifier window?
It doesn't apply at all to damage at the moment - it's specifically in the "Attack" section, not the damage section. So the flat-footed modifier button doesn't trigger anything for damage actions.

In release 19 I'll be doing a lot of work around actions and I'll certainly look at a more flexible way of applying flat-footed to damage actions. In the meantime, apply the relevant effects.

[Dargos]

An untype damages does damage in Live, but doesn't in Test:

Live: 46875
R18: 46876

An exemple of untype damage: the damage that caster takes from Protector's Sacrifice, because the caster's "immunities, weaknesses, resistances and so on do not apply".

[Trenloe]

An untype damages does damage in Live, but doesn't in Test:

Live: 46875
R18: 46876

An exemple of untype damage: the damage that caster takes from Protector's Sacrifice, because the caster's "immunities, weaknesses, resistances and so on do not apply".
Thanks for reporting. Already listed as a known issue in post #7 (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?66959-Pathfinder-2-0-Ruleset-Release-18-testing&p=586004&viewfull=1#post586004) and fixed in the next test release.

[Trenloe]

An exemple of untype damage: the damage that caster takes from Protector's Sacrifice, because the caster's "immunities, weaknesses, resistances and so on do not apply".
Note - this example wouldn't be a case of assuming untyped damage will avoid all immunities, weaknesses and resistances. Untyped damage can still apply to immunities, weaknesses and resistances against "all" damage - probably only relevant for resistances in practice.

[lostsanityreturned]

I cant' find anything in the Core Rules, Gamemastery Guide or Bestiary that indicate what casting stat NPCs use for spellcasting. Innate spells, in theory, should be Charisma (Core Rules page 302) but don't know if, by design NPC spellcasters don't specifically apply a spellcasting ability - i.e it's all already calculated in the spellcasting DC and attack stats. But, this does of course mess with some spells (Daze being a simple example). OK, so you can take a guess based off the tradition, but this is not 100% accurate.

Have you seen an official source saying what spellcasting ability an NPC should have?

No, I am pretty sure it is an oversight though as they have included daze on the spell lists of npcs before and I am pretty sure there is one point where they instruct to use it and non lethal spells for one enemy (I cannot remember where though).

Even if it wasn't coded in by default it might be worth while including a field that is used for the base value for npcs anyway.
If a NPC has "oracle spontaneous spellcasting" or "wizard prepared spellcasting" etc it is pretty safe to guess at the right ability score to use imo ;)

[Trenloe]

Release R18t12 is now in test with fixes for recently reported issues. This will display "Release 18" in chat as, barring any last moment issues, this version will be pushed to live on Tuesday May 25th.

[spoonhead]

Ahead of the release, I’ve been trying to see how R18 might work in my upcoming campaign. If there is no coding on an NPC/Hazard that gets parsed in to the CT, what do I do? For instance, there is a hazard that requires a Fortitude saving throw of the players. Depending on the result, the subsequent effects and damage will differ from no effect on a critical success and lots of damage + blinded on a critical fail.

Getting the players to roll a save seems simple, and dropping an effect on the players seems OK, but how does the damage work? Or is it all manual. In this instance the damage is negative.

I did try looking at another NPC at their coding, but even a cut and paste didn’t seem to work, but I thought that might be because I was copying the code from an NPC to a hazard.

[Trenloe]

Ahead of the release, I’ve been trying to see how R18 might work in my upcoming campaign. If there is no coding on an NPC/Hazard that gets parsed in to the CT, what do I do? For instance, there is a hazard that requires a Fortitude saving throw of the players. Depending on the result, the subsequent effects and damage will differ from no effect on a critical success and lots of damage + blinded on a critical fail.

Getting the players to roll a save seems simple, and dropping an effect on the players seems OK, but how does the damage work? Or is it all manual. In this instance the damage is negative.

I did try looking at another NPC at their coding, but even a cut and paste didn’t seem to work, but I thought that might be because I was copying the code from an NPC to a hazard.
I'm away from my computer so can't give a detailed response.

Only attacks (which can include damage) are shown for hazards in the CT. They have a slightly different data format to NPCs and I haven't implemented showing the hazard automation (new to hazards in release 18) in the CT at this point.

You can do hazard automation similarly to NPCs, but need to open the hazard record from within the CT, and apply any automation from the hazard statblock, which is setup in the automation field. Or you can still use dummy spells to do save, damage, effects, etc..

Details on automation is available here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?64192-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Bestiaries-and-Automation. I recommend reading the first section of the linked Google doc for background on how to enable the automation field and how to use it.

[spoonhead]

Thank you Trenloe. I’ve been looking at other NPC/Hazards that are coded, and trying to cut and paste between the 2. Some success eventually. Probably not ideal, but I’ve been adding the damage type into the melee/range section. As I said, getting the players to roll saves, can be pretty easy, and then I just have to apply the damage and effects, if required.

I’ll read the doc as well. Have viewed your Videos a couple of times for a better understanding.

[Brysun]

18 still going live today? hey hey ? Is it ? Is it ? ;)

[Trenloe]

18 still going live today? hey hey ? Is it ? Is it ? ;)
I don't know. Maybe. ;)

Keep an eye on the City Hall forum for any official announcements.

[Brysun]

It's alive!!!!!! Muahahahaha ;)

[Trenloe]

Release 18 has gone live!

Please refer to this thread for information: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?68642-Pathfinder-2-Release-18-information-thread

Over the coming days/weeks, more documentation, videos, etc. will be made available.

Closing this thread.

[Trenloe]

A big thank you to everyone who tested release 18 and provided feedback. It was greatly appreciated and has helped to make this release better than just my own solitary efforts would have. I'm sure there'll be issues in live, but having done a good amount of testing before should mean we won't have any show stoppers. Thanks everyone!