Abomination Vaults: Compendium

[ShadeRaven]

For starts: SPOILERS ALERT! There will be no intent (on my behalf) to ruin any surprises for player planning on going through any part of the series, but because there will be some information sharing here that is generally intended for GMs running the series, I would suggest being cautious going through this thread if you intend on playing through it.

So, as with the Agents of Edgewatch, for Adventure Paths I am a part of going forward I am going to add a compendium series to the AP. What I hope to accomplish here is a multitude of things.

Links to the store pages for each product in the series. I’ll also indicate when there’s an update available on upcoming.
An obvious place simply to comment on the series as it appears in Fantasy Grounds. Likes, dislikes, issues or bugs within each of the adventure modules, etc. Come here and offer any input. It’ll be read.
Perhaps the key to this Compendium is the desire to have it be a gathering place for complimentary content to the series. Within each adventure, there are tidbits, brief mentions, and sidebars suggesting offering additional possibilities, personalities, or intrigues. I’d like to develop those further for those wanting more content in these series.

The Adventure Paths are long series, although with Abomination Vaults, they’ve pared this down in half. Still, even with Abomination Vaults, it will take characters from fledgling adventurers to significant powers on Golarion. It’s with that in mind that I hope to give the series more for these remarkable individuals to get involved with. The compendium will probably not be for those who just want to play the series from beginning to end straightforward, but if you are interested in expanding out a bit where it seems natural, I hope you can find something here for you!

Finally, while I am obviously headlining the effort here, I encourage anyone who is running this series or has ideas to compliment it to contribute as well! Everyone benefits from a collective effort :)

The Series: Abomination Vaults
(Part): (Name with Store Page Link) (Link to Compendium Page)
Part 1: Ruins of Gauntlight (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=PZOSMWPZO90163FG) (1 of 3) - Available Now
Part 2: Hands of the Devil (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=PZOSMWPZO90164FG) (2 of 3) - Available Now
Part 3: Eyes of Empty Death (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=PZOSMWPZO90165FG) (3 of 3) - Available Now

[ShadeRaven]

Ruins of Gauntlight
This is the first entry in the Abomination Vaults series. It is intended for characters starting at level 1 and will take them through to level 4, with the character making Level 5 at the end – if all things go according to plan.

For starters, it has the feel of a good, old-fashioned Dungeon Crawl, beginning with a Ruined Keep sitting atop it. However, it’s not a shallow adventure with just a series of seemingly, semi-random encounters linked together by various passages. No, James Jacobs gave us a meaty story and associative design to tie it all together in a tight, evolving plotline. If you are GMing it, I highly suggest digging into the sections at the start of the Toolbox to get to know the story behind the setting. It will enrich everyone’s experience of the adventure if you do so.

Another key feature of the adventure is the Otari Gazeteer. Unless you have players that just want to jump into the adventures and aren’t interested in investing into the world around them much, the details and tidbits you can find in there are pure gold. It’s a perfect hub for adventurers to call their base of operations. Despite it’s relatively small size (roughly 1260 residents), it has so much to offer. Such as:

Adventuring Gear. There are places to get everything from basic adventuring gear to armor and weapons. Even beyond that, there are consumables for sale, magic items of all sorts, and more. For beginning or even more advanced adventurers, Otari has almost everything player characters need. Most of these items can be found at a discount to boot.
Lodging and Housing. There are plenty of places for character to find residence in Otari. Places to rest and recover, even from more serious ailments. What’s great about Otari is that these accommodations are free. Furthermore, as characters advance, there are plenty of “gray spaces” in Otari if characters would want to actually own their own homes or estates. Plenty of possibilities!
Special Services. From fortune tellers to spellcasting services, they all can be found in Otari. Gives plenty of opportunity to enrich the storyline or aid the characters when things get tough.
Earned Income. There are details on taking advantage of the Downtime’s Earned Income rules in Otari. Before the characters delve into the dungeon, perhaps they’d like to make use of some of their training to supplement their starting income. Or maybe between adventures or during downtime while others recover or research, there are opportunities to take advantage of Downtime Features.
Retraining. There are rules governing retraining in Otari that enhance a characters ability to do so: this includes quicker retraining and free retraining.
Skill Bonus Sites. Sometimes as a part of earning income and sometimes just as part of personal pursuits, there are places where characters can go to be more efficient at crafting, research, treating wounds, and so forth. Well worth taking advantage of.

These are just the major highlights of Otari. It’s is chock full of goodies. It’s also a short trip to the major population center of Absalom, so even more possibilities are just a short journey away.

One of the cool things about these new series, too, is that they are starting to tie together with other adventures. There are links to both the stories around the Beginners Box and Troubles at Otari within the pages of Ruins of Gauntlight, not to mention the use of Otari and Absalom in so many of the Pathfinder Society and other APs.

With time, I hope to also develop a complimentary module to accompany this compendium which will expand on some of the adventure itself (from interactive dialogues to expanding on areas and characters).

Enjoy!

[ShadeRaven]

Hands of the Devil
With the second entry in the Abomination Vaults series we get a continuation of the dungeon delve that started with the first.

One of the interesting aspects to Abomination Vaults in the quick-travel system that is unlocked with the series. Fairly necessary because it would be tedious, in most cases, to have to go through all the previous levels to continue where a party left off as there are obvious points where returning to town would be desired. Still, it does leave open the possibility that things would be going on in the levels left behind as time passes. This is an excellent seed to mini side-trek type adventures should any GM desire it. Perfect fillers for campaigns if the group needs a little XP boost or maybe just a fun diversion with limitless possibilities to break the tension or linear aspect of a dungeon crawl. Toss in anything from a more serious rebuilding of forces within; a lost child that wandered in after hearing tales of the group's heroic deeds; a hedge doctor who desperately needs to cure a spreading malady and knows of a rare subterranean fungi he believes is down there that would allow him to do so; strange sounds are now coming from the ruins - is it now haunted with vengeful undead?; on and on...

Also with Hands of the Devil comes two Ecology Of entries: Will-o'-Wisps and Fleshwarps.

Will-o'-Wisps: The devious wisps have always been an interesting creature when tossed into a setting as they can be much more than just another encounter in a series of encounters. There is a lot of good stimuli for anyone seeking to add a bit of a creepy element to a game night as they are very well used as lures to dark places. There is a lot of good details about this enigmatic beings and plenty of variants to keep experienced players off balance

The Fleshwarped: Like the wisps, there's a good, detail rich chapter centered on the fleshwarped. Unlike the previous, though, this centers a great deal around the societies that are particularly known for the cruel act. Anyone looking for a darker, more expanded dive into the appalling process and what it might results in beyond what's found within the series, you'll find plenty to munch on within.

Eldritch Researcher: The toolbox offers an interesting and more scholarly Archetype. For those interested in a character with deeper knowledge of the Arcane or Occult, this dedication has something to offer. It may not be obvious in its combat uses, but knowledge is power and this archetype certainly allows a character to expand on one of those two fields.

Finally, there's Infernal Contracts. Oh, what devious things come to mind when I read through that section. Feeling a little impish? This little portion of the Toolbox might just give you a dangerously insidious grin. :cool:

Beyond that, I hope everyone who dives into this 2nd in the series enjoys it!

[ShadeRaven]

Eyes of Empty Death
With the final entry in the Abomination Vaults series we get a continuation of the dungeon delve that started with the first.

Like the previous two entries, this final in the series also takes advantage of the quick-travel system with the use of portals to each level. As deep as the party will be by adventure end, that'll be very important. I am not sure if you could get away with this in every dungeon crawl, but for this one, it's an outstanding addition.

I should note that for Eyes, there's some huge levels with numerous potential encounters. It's never really advisable to try to push or lead a party into a particular direction, but if they don't seek non-combat interactions or alliances, a couple of the levels in this entry in the series will become very combat heavy. Not only does that put the party at greater risk of defeat, but it's going to also result in much more experience gained. It might be worth considering the play style of the group for GMs hosting this adventure as it will have a dramatic effect on how Eyes of Empty Death will proceed. I don't want to give any spoilers, so I won't go into any details, but if this becomes a concern, it might be worth using barricades (a faction determined to slow or stop the hostilities) or similar devices to prevent access to certain areas to prevent unnecessary slogging.

Eyes of Empty Death comes two additional entries : Nhimbaloth and Ghosts of Golarion.

Nhimbaloth: Known as The Empty Death, this Outer Goddess is shrouded in mystery. Little is known of her and those who worship her are rare. Despite this, there are Empty Death cultists who do worship Nhimbaloth and how that manifests within Golarion and Nhimbaloth's place in the Elder Mythos can be found in this section.

Ghosts of Golarion: For those who love the paranormal, Ghosts of Golarion gives some excellent material. From specific haunted spirits to details on how to create innumerable and variations of these notable undead, there's a lot to love in this section of the AP. There's some cool new powers to create these variants that are definitely worth a look!

Drow Shootist Archetype: This is a new archetype found within the Toolbox. Anyone who loves the idea of making use of a Hand Crossbow should take a peak.

There's also some new weapons, magic items, spells, alchemical items, and creatures - and who doesn't want that?!?

Beyond that, I hope everyone who dives into this final entry in the series enjoys it!

[ShadeRaven]

Ruins of Gauntlight (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=PZOSMWPZO90163FG) is now available in the store.

[Larsenex]

Shade,

Thank you! I will be posting here and updating how my players liked or dislike parts of the module.

[ShadeRaven]

Speaking of like and dislike...

So for those of you that've played the adventures I've been associated with, you should have noticed that I have spent a good deal of time making the Reference Manual pop - giving it as much feel as possible as the PDF (images, framing, etc). What I am curious about is.. has anyone tried or used the Ref Man as the basis for running their sessions? Anyone use it as a reference document or read it as they would a PDF?

I have used story pins for maps, but have considered even pulling reference manual entries into pins. Has anyone made more use of the Reference Manual as I have expanded it's features and have an opinion on the subject?

Thanks! :)

[MaxAstro]

I'll be honest - usually I just search the map that I want and use the pins on the map for any reference. I also usually have the physical book with me, too, or the PDF opened on my other monitor. But I'll definitely keep an eye out for the reference manual for Abomination Vaults, and let you know what I think.

I'd probably get more use out of it if I could get Fantasy Grounds to place nice with two monitors, though. Always wanted a setup where I could have chat and the pinned map on my right-hand monitor, and then have the left hand monitor free to bring up stat blocks/reference material/etc. Didn't seem to be possible with Classic but maybe it is in Unity?

[lostsanityreturned]

Speaking of like and dislike...

So for those of you that've played the adventures I've been associated with, you should have noticed that I have spent a good deal of time making the Reference Manual pop - giving it as much feel as possible as the PDF (images, framing, etc). What I am curious about is.. has anyone tried or used the Ref Man as the basis for running their sessions? Anyone use it as a reference document or read it as they would a PDF?

I have used story pins for maps, but have considered even pulling reference manual entries into pins. Has anyone made more use of the Reference Manual as I have expanded it's features and have an opinion on the subject?

Thanks! :)

I tend to do both, story entries are used for quick referencing back to things as I write notes and bold text / shorten entries.

I use the reference during general play as it has the full text and more closely followes book structure as I have found I sometimes miss things in the standard story structure.

[ShadeRaven]

Max: I haven't had any issues with multiple monitors in Classic.. in fact, I have used up to 3. If you stay in Windows Mode, you should be able to just stretch it across monitors and then organize thereafter, as desired. What are you running into?

Beyond that, thanks for the input. I think seeing the images that come with the Ref Man make it easier to share them, give more visual touch to games, so maybe I'll see how that looks as map pins in Abomination Vault #2 (which is nearly finished).

Thanks as always :)

[MaxAstro]

Without derailing this too much, I seem to remember the issue being that if I stretch Fantasy Grounds across multiple monitors, then any map that I pin also stretches across the monitors, and since you can't zoom maps out farther than the size of the image, it's impossible to constrain the map to just one monitor. (being able to zoom out arbitrarily far or scroll past the edges of the map would be a very nice feature by the way, many maps have very tightly cropped borders that can make centering yourself on action near the edges of the map very tricky)

[hawkwind]

Speaking of like and dislike...

So for those of you that've played the adventures I've been associated with, you should have noticed that I have spent a good deal of time making the Reference Manual pop - giving it as much feel as possible as the PDF (images, framing, etc). What I am curious about is.. has anyone tried or used the Ref Man as the basis for running their sessions? Anyone use it as a reference document or read it as they would a PDF?

I have used story pins for maps, but have considered even pulling reference manual entries into pins. Has anyone made more use of the Reference Manual as I have expanded it's features and have an opinion on the subject?

Thanks! :)
I think you have done a good job on the reference manual, much improved on the previous adventure paths. I haven't started this yet ( still on book five of the Age of Ashes) but i can see my self actually using the reference manual which i don't currently do

[ShadeRaven]

Max: That's odd, but I think I know what you are referring to. I can provide some screenshots of what I do to see if that's essentially what you are looking for. Honestly, I don't use the "pin" (arrow) feature for images/maps.. instead, I would suggest just using it in a window and with the extra space you get for multiple monitors, setting it up in it's own space somewhere on that extra monitor. With the extra display area, you shouldn't need to pin the map just have it readily available in the new area.. you can still place things overtop it, etc., and just have it beneath when you need it. Let me know if I can help in any way.

hawkwind: That's great. I am hoping to make the Reference Manual the go-to place because it can offer some things that Story Mode can't. Needless to say, though, both need to be useful when called upon.

Thanks for the input!

[MaxAstro]

It may just be that I need to organize my maps better. What I like about pinning is being able to click on the map without other windows getting buried behind it; it lets me quickly bounce between the map and the combat tracker without having to reshuffle windows. But perhaps I just need to get in the habit of not keeping anything overtop of my maps.

More on topic, I should be running my first session of Vaults on Sunday; I'll check out the reference manual and let you know what I think.

[Trenloe]

It may just be that I need to organize my maps better. What I like about pinning is being able to click on the map without other windows getting buried behind it; it lets me quickly bounce between the map and the combat tracker without having to reshuffle windows. But perhaps I just need to get in the habit of not keeping anything overtop of my maps.
Put the current map you're working on in a hotkey slot - perhaps F1. Then press F1 (or click the slot) to bring the map to the front. If it's already at the front then F1 will close it, F1 to open it again.

[MaxAstro]

After my first session, here is my feedback:

*I don't know if this is a Unity thing or something that you are doing ShadeRaven, but I love that the maps have wide areas of black space around the actual map. That's a huge improvement over my previous experiences.

*The addition of said black space meant that stretching the program across two monitors and keeping the map on one was actually possible even with the map pinned, which worked perfectly for my needs. Really can't overstate how much I appreciate that.

*I didn't touch the physical book all session; I just used the various story entries and pins, and it worked very smoothly. However, I'm not entirely sure what the "Reference Manual" is or where to locate it, I must admit.

*Small complaint: The images associated with the monster entries are identified by default and do not have unidentified names set. This means that I need to manually add an unidentified name if I want to share the image without revealing the name of the monster.

*Smaller complaint: The haunt in A7 does not seem to have any automation at all, either monster automation or spells. I had to resolve all of its abilities completely manually, which was annoying.

*Even smaller complaint: The doors in A1 of the Gauntlight ruins being double doors that open individually instead of a larger single door like the door above that is a bit weird, and makes vision into that area a bit odd-looking because the space "between" the doors blocks vision.

*Vision took a while to figure out but eventually I got everything working like I wanted, except I can't seem to turn off players being able to see other players' vision.

*Movement took a while to figure out but eventually we mostly figured it out. It's a little annoying that the "confirm move" graphic doesn't warn you that the movement is going to be blocked by a wall. Also, tokens now seem to snap to quarter-grid tiles instead of half-grid tiles, which makes it harder to put a token exactly on a tile. Sometimes this messes up the movement calculation because you placed the token a quarter-tile too far and it adds an extra 5'.

Obviously not all of that has anything to do with you, ShadeRaven, but it's fresh in my mind so I wanted to put it all in one place. :)

[ShadeRaven]

Max: Outstanding input!

Unity has the black space. It can be quite useful, indeed!
The Reference Manual can be found through the Library Entry of the Module in question. It'll be on the top.
Images are currently identified by default. I'll see what I can do about changing that. :)
A7's "haunt" is a Hazard. Unfortunately, Hazards are not ready for Automation at this point. We'll get there eventually, but for now - yeah, they are all by hand at this point and the more complex ones can be a bit of work to handle, especially in comparison to creature automation.
Doors and maps ... I know what you mean, but I tended to be very faithful to how they are portraited by the original map-mapper's rendition. So if a set of double doors have a wall section between them, I would consider them to be separate entities with a small separator section between them. I does offer some odd little line-of-sight interferences, though, you are right.
I believe there's a setting in Unity (under settings, of all things) that allows you to toggle player shared vision on or off. Party Vision or some such thing.
I haven't noticed the token snapping yet myself, but I am transitioning to Unity currently, too. I am sure that will make things a little awkward, but I also expect that there will be little tweaks and adjustments as this gets refined. Token movement and use will certainly get its fair share of attention.

I'll never complain about any input (even when its harsh)! And while you are right, not everything noted is in my realm of direct influence... BUT... there are eyes everywhere :bandit: and those who listening :ninja:

[MaxAstro]

It would be nice if hazards had at least a little automation added via the spells window - in the case of this one, even just adding a spell with the Will save and the mental damage would have saved a fair amount of time.

But I understand that a huge amount of work goes into these books and asking for more is a bit rich of me. :)

Regarding images, is that a new thing? When I was running Age of Ashes with FGC, the majority of the images were not identified by default or at least had unidentified names input. I just looked over Hellknight Hill, for example, and basically every monster image is unidentified by default.

[ShadeRaven]

It's new, unfortunately, for me. I use a different system to develop than sciencephile, so that hadn't really landed on the radar yet.

As for a bit of automation for hazards. Hm. I'll see what we can come up with in the short term. :)

[Dark Mullisha]

Very Nice ShadeRaven, one FYI, in the story section under overview there are links to Ruins of Radiant Siege.:D

[ShadeRaven]

Very Nice ShadeRaven, one FYI, in the story section under overview there are links to Ruins of Radiant Siege.:DI have been trying to get that one through review for a few weeks now, so I decided to sneak it in through a different ruins :p Shhhh....

That should be updated a week from today, as for when Radiant Siege actually lands....

[MaxAstro]

Huh, though I already posted this but I must have forgotten to hit post. Anyway:

Further feedback - the diagonal double doors in A9 are, with apologies for the strong wording, awful to move through. Characters very easily get stuck on the "wall" between the doors. Every time the party had to move back and forth in that area I had to take control of their characters and manually drag them through, and even then it took me a bit to figure out which parts of the doors you could actually move a token through.

I also noticed that the horizontal double door near the top of the servant's quarters - apologies I don't remember the room number - has sort of the opposite problem. There's no "wall" between the doors, and players can see through them while moving past.

On the other hand, though, I tried out the reference manual and it's amazing. That instantly got pinned to my shortcuts bar and I found myself constantly bringing it up during game. A+.

[Trenloe]

Huh, though I already posted this but I must have forgotten to hit post.
I moved your post to the DLC issue reporting thread - which is where it should be. This thread is not about reporting issues with the FG conversion of Abomination Vaults, it is a thread regarding GMs sharing information for running the series.

Everyone - please make sure you post in appropriate threads. There has been a lot of posting in the wrong thread recently and the original intent of the thread soon gets lost.

Now, back to this very useful thread about GMing the Abomination Vaults AP in Fantasy Grounds...

[rhollander10]

Regarding GMing Abomination Vaults, how do other GMs handle giving players information about how to disable hazards? Given the number of haunts and other hazards they'll encounter throughout this adventure, I've been wrestling with this question.

Consider the haunt in Room A11. If the party notices it before it triggers (successful check from the doorway, for example), I might say something like, "You see a sticky, still-wet blood stain on the floor, which seems to be tainted by a foul spiritual presence. You think it might do something if you move closer." Player 1: "I don't move into the room. How do I deal with it? What are my options?"

They're not yet in Encounter Mode because they haven't done something to cause the hazard to use its reaction yet. Do you:

(a) tell them, "That's up to you. Tell me what you want to try."
(b) tell them, "Roll any of your skills you think might apply and I'll give you information if you choose the right skill." - then set a DC but secretly conclude that only certain skills will work (Religion, Thievery, Occultism(?), Spirit Lore(?))
(c) tell them, "Roll [insert skill options]" and set a DC.
(d) tell them, "You can tell that you'll need to exorcise it using Religion or carefully scrape away the blood using Thievery." - giving them the two skills noted in the Disable language of the hazard.

And then same question if they've already triggered it and are in encounter mode.

Basically, do players get to know what the Disable options are automatically, do they have to guess based just on what the GM tells them about what they're seeing, or do they make some sort of check to figure out which skills might be useful? I've wrestled with this in GMing other PF2 APs and haven't come to a conclusion on how best to handle it, so I'm curious what others think.

This interrelates with Fantasy Grounds, since it also impacts whether, and when, I would reveal the "Hazard" icon on the map. At what point does the party know they're facing a Hazard? Some Hazards (like haunts, particularly) look at lot like creatures (ghosts, poltergeists, etc.) Should the party know they're facing a Haunt rather than a creature? Or is that part of the challenge/mystery?

[Trenloe]

I don’t put the hazard icon on the map until they truly realize it’s a hazard, or when it’s triggered (if complex or has a physical presence) and I don’t just use an H token. For this example, when it actually gets triggered; before that I’d primarily use option C - if the players ask what they can do then I’ll ask them to make appropriate recall knowledge checks to try to know what this might be - as mentioned in the Core Rules hazard section related to magical hazards. I know it’s not a magical hazard per se (it doesn’t have the magical trait) but it’s a complex hazard and is very, very similar to a magical hazard.

The same once it’s triggered, but the PCs will need to use an action to recall knowledge.

[MaxAstro]

I handle it as a Recall Knowledge check. Knowing how to disable a hazard is definitely a "piece of useful information". If the hazard hasn't triggered yet, I'll adjust the DC and the information I give in the same way that I adjust the DC if you find signs of a monster that isn't physically present.

Of course this is often somewhat moot as my players have a tendency to blunder into hazards haplessly... they walked right into the room with the bloodstain without a care in the world...

[MaxAstro]

Post session update:

This is a really really good campaign for the dynamic lighting/vision rules. The dungeon environment and the twisty, maze-like layouts benefit hugely from FGU's lighting. Literally once per session I have had party members get themselves into trouble because they couldn't see each other and made bad decisions based on lack of information. I highly recommend anyone running this campaign make use of these features if possible.

[ShadeRaven]

Added the link to the second in the series to the initial post and a section specific to the Hand of the Devil (found HERE (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?66236-Abomination-Vaults-Compendium&p=580130&viewfull=1#post580130)) that offers some thoughts on this addition to the adventure path. Enjoy!

[ShadeRaven]

For starters, the third and final in the series can be found in the store. You can find it here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=PZOSMWPZO90165FG).

You can find my notes on it in this post: Eyes of Empty Death Compendium (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?66236-Abomination-Vaults-Compendium&p=580131&viewfull=1#post580131)

One additional note I want to add to this final entry in the series and the series itself. Since lighting and some of the evolution of LOS has continued during my efforts to bring this to Fantasy Grounds, it inspired me to go back and try to update all the entries in the Adventure Path. One of the aspects I decided to give some effort in was trying to include specific handlers of imbedded, but not detailed, hazards within the series. So, for example, if entering a room causes dread, but it's not a Hazard (given a stat block), I've tried to include a pseudo-hazard entry for it to handle the automation of it. Hopefully, this will aid GMs as they proceed through this AP.

I've also tried to go back and examine all the doors, barriers, and similar features to cover things like locking or vision (such as a wall of force you can look through but not pass through while active). Hopefully, what I've come up with will work for all involved.

And yes, I've tried my best to put in all the LOS and Lighting to bring these levels to life. I think it was worth the effort for those who enjoy employing those features.

As always, I welcome all feedback and hope anyone who gives this series a run enjoys it!

[rhollander10]

ShadeRaven, if you put in the Lighting for the first module of the AP (which I'm currently running), is there something I need to do to get your lighting effects added to my current game? Will that update automatically when I run regular updates on the FGU launcher, or is there something else I need to do to get those added to my existing maps for AV#1?

Thanks for all your hard work!

[ShadeRaven]

Hey rhollander10! Hope you are enjoying the AV series so far. Lighting should definitely be in, but in examining the module, I don't see it :( I can see it throughout the development version, which is the latest, but it appears it hasn't hit the live servers yet.

We may have to wait until next week to see it active though, sadly. When that happens, we can revisit what methods allow players to update the maps without interfering with things like current token placements, etc. (If someone in the know has information, feel free to hop into this discussion - I want to say there's a way to do this, maybe with "revert", but I honestly would have to investigate this myself.)

[Montis]

If you revert a map, everything resets to the default saved in the module. Player tokens (and all others) will be removed from the map.

[TopHatG]

I could be blind or missing something, but are the backgrounds included somewhere? I've looked in the player's guide and main module of the first adventure.

[Trenloe]

I could be blind or missing something, but are the backgrounds included somewhere? I've looked in the player's guide and main module of the first adventure.
They're in the "Abomination Vault Player's Guide". Not to be confused with the "Abomination Vaults 1 - Player's Resource".

[TopHatG]

They're in the "Abomination Vault Player's Guide". Not to be confused with the "Abomination Vaults 1 - Player's Resource".

Found it! So Blind! Thanks for the quick reply.

[ptchicuorka]

have a question as a DM running the vault. in the first module i found one encounter really over balanced or almost impossible for the party I'm running to win even being 3rd level going to 4th soon my the level counter. it seem a room on the 3red floor, which is C30 has the encounter with the wood Golem and is a level rank 6. this encounter and not realizing it until the party encountered it won win it even with the magical item and powers they have. if you haven't looked at the stats for it, it would be a challenge for even 5 or 6 level character. we stopped the fight cause i didn't want to kill the party off. so any suggestions on if this was something that should have been nerfed down and wasn't or did the creators of it not care or know about the monster power level. and has any one else found this a problem in the module? also can you send any suggestion on how to deal with it, i don't mind a challenging encounter but not a impossible one for the party.

[Trenloe]

have a question as a DM running the vault. in the first module i found one encounter really over balanced or almost impossible for the party I'm running to win even being 3rd level going to 4th soon my the level counter. it seem a room on the 3red floor, which is C30 has the encounter with the wood Golem and is a level rank 6. this encounter and not realizing it until the party encountered it won win it even with the magical item and powers they have. if you haven't looked at the stats for it, it would be a challenge for even 5 or 6 level character. we stopped the fight cause i didn't want to kill the party off. so any suggestions on if this was something that should have been nerfed down and wasn't or did the creators of it not care or know about the monster power level. and has any one else found this a problem in the module? also can you send any suggestion on how to deal with it, i don't mind a challenging encounter but not a impossible one for the party.
I doubt the creators didn't care or didn't know about the power level of the encounter. The creature in that encounter is level 6 - which is a severe encounter for a party of 4 third level PCs - this is what the encounter is listed as in the adventure: "Severe 3" - so the designers were aware that it was a difficult encounter.

The creature in that encounter has some interesting defensive abilities which can make it difficult for standard approaches to do damage - I'm being vague to try to avoid spoilers. I don't know how your players approached the encounter, but just wading in and attacking, attacking, attacking is not a great approach. Using actions to Recall Knowledge about the creature would probably give some good ideas as to how to do significant damage to it. If the players don't have that capability then they need to try to disengage and use different tactics. The creature can definitely be defeated by 3rd level characters, they just have to use all of the resources available to them (knowledge as well as offense) and retreat if they're unable - the encounter text says the creature doesn't pursue out of the room, so this tells me that the designers were aware this could be a difficult fight and have made it possible for the PCs to leave (the creature doesn't have attacks of opportunity) and regroup to try later, or just move on if the creature is beyond them.

[ShadeRaven]

Trenloe is spot on there. First, that unless it's a clear-cut error (such as a typo or room # mislabel, etc) or something that got errata later on, I can't alter the content. Unfortunately, there are a few cases throughout the APs that require a little.... cautious or different approach to overcoming.

It's probably why it's almost always a good idea to peruse any published adventure before running them. Not just to have familiarity with the story and plot points, but to catch things that don't suit the group of players that a GM will be taking through it. In one of my campaigns, those players are not so interested in long drawn out social encounters or parlays, so I tailor the adventures to better fit their personalities. I always try to keep in the forefront of my thoughts is that the RPG is supposed to be Fun, above all else, so trying to circle a square just because that's how it was written is a disservice to everyone involved.

Thus, I'd consider how your group would likely approach an encounter like that, what might make it interesting, challenging, but exciting for them. If that means nerfing it, I'd go right ahead and start with at least the WEAK adjustment (see the rules here (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=791)) or consider other avenues that will engage (such as maybe the creature in question actually bottleneck's itself early on, pushing characters out of the room while not pursuing or has taken its orders to guard very literally, so won't even use splinter volley against creatures beyond the room) and even surprise the players (perhaps it has a Frankenstein moment if it sees the glow of the furnace down the hall, shying away from even the sight of that fiery light and moving to a corner that breaks visibility).

Hopefully, that'll help! As always, feel free to come back for more ideas or even what you ended up doing to make it work for you and your group! :)

[stephan_]

I gave my group the following disclaimer before we started (very slightly adjusted):


1. You don’t necessarily have the explore/fight everything on a given level (though maybe don’t go down – or up – the very first staircase you find). Even though apparently a number of encounters had to be cut, book 1 of AV has significantly more encounters than book 1 of AoA. This doesn’t mean that fight is always the only solution (a surprising amount of variety) but it should signal you that 100% a level may not be intended. Exploring a bit may give you additional benefits but it’s difficult to tell in advance whether it’s worth the risk. This ties into the next point.

2. While the different levels of a megadungeon may give you an indication of the difficulty of an encounter, this does not mean that “open door, kill thing” does work with all encounters at that level. As it does have some sandbox elements, it’s entirely possible to get in over your heads – you may not be able to win all fights given a certain level, equipment and tactics. There are no “safe for levels XY signs” on the doors. If you choose the door with Rovagug, not any money behind it, it may be better to run rather than fight. Any door you open may give you benefits (items, information, …) but it may also expose you to unneeded danger. So in the worst case scenario the party TPKs because they drown in Rovagug’s toilet – which would hold no real treasure whatsoever, even of the party somehow defeats the dangers of the toilet!

[Rzach]

My group and I are thinking about playing Pathfinder 2e. I was planning on running the Abomination Vaults for them as our first AP. Does the AP modules come with the Player's Guide for the AP? I don't see it listed in the store content page for this AP...

[stephan_]

As it shows up in my modules I assume so, though I'm not 100 % sure.

[Dark Mullisha]

My group and I are thinking about playing Pathfinder 2e. I was planning on running the Abomination Vaults for them as our first AP. Does the AP modules come with the Player's Guide for the AP? I don't see it listed in the store content page for this AP...

I checked my module list there is 3 Player resources and one Player guide. You get one resource with each module.

[ShadeRaven]

The above is correct. Each module has an individual player's resource, and the series has a player's guide. You get the guide with any purchase and each individual resource with the associated module.

[stephan_]

It's not a FG conversion bug (rather an issue with the Paizo map itself) but at least something for GMs to be aware of:

Book 2 Hands of the Devil has the one-side-mirror-walls as actual holes in the walls (meaning PCs can see through them from both sides - and can actually also walk though them) in at least two general locations (B22/B23/B25 and D15).

Edit: “The jagged halls contain several blocks of one-way transparent stone offering a view into the gladiators’ quarters. The stone appears opaque from within the rooms and can’t be detected.”

[revanmaster]

I think I found a solution for each room. Add pits (without blocked movement), and terrain to each of those rooms themselves. This is if this is really the problem. Not sure since I'm not running this module as of yet.

51638

[stephan_]

Presumably several options to deal with the issues - though all of them do require the GM to modify the maps in advance.

Probably safe to say most groups find the secret passages anyway but it's a bit anticlimactic if they are simply able to "phase" through the walls.

[Calvertfan]

Hi, apologies if this isn’t the right thread, but wanted to share our experience this week, third session of Abomination Vaults. I had to turn the lighting off on the map of the first level as was causing the game to grind to a halt. After a bit of experimenting today, it seems related to when a couple of characters equipped torches in their character sheets, using the automation built into them. It was working fine previously with one of the characters casting Light on themselves, but equipping the torches seems to have pushed it over the edge. I know it’s a reasonably big map with several light sources, so not sure if the issue will continue into later levels. Anyone else had a similar experience?

[stephan_]

I turned off light sources at some point as it caused considerable lag on some maps.

[Crepetus]

Hi,

Can this series take characters from level 1 to 20? I am looking for a adventure series that will do that. Thank you!

[Trenloe]

Can this series take characters from level 1 to 20? I am looking for a adventure series that will do that. Thank you!
This was originally published as a three part adventure path (AP) and is designed to take characters from level 1 to 10. Usually the three part adventure paths cover a 10 level range, and the six part APs cover 1 to 20.

You could run Abomination Vaults and then follow up with Fists of the Ruby Phoenix, which is for levels 11-20. Or you could look at any of the six part APs - see the Adventure Path list in post #2 of the conversion status thread here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61483-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Official-Paizo-Product-Conversion-Status

[MaxAstro]

Note that the current 1-20 adventure paths (Age of Ashes, Extinction Curse, Agents of Edgewatch, Strength of Thousands, Blood Lords, and Kingmaker) are likely to be the definitive list. Paizo has more or less said that they aren't doing 1-20 APs anymore, preferring instead of to do shorter APs that can be combined if desired.

Of those, by the way, my personal recommendations are Kingmaker, Age of Ashes, and - if you want an evil campaign - Blood Lords.

[Crepetus]

This was originally published as a three part adventure path (AP) and is designed to take characters from level 1 to 10. Usually the three part adventure paths cover a 10 level range, and the six part APs cover 1 to 20.

You could run Abomination Vaults and then follow up with Fists of the Ruby Phoenix, which is for levels 11-20. Or you could look at any of the six part APs - see the Adventure Path list in post #2 of the conversion status thread here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61483-Pathfinder-Second-Edition-Official-Paizo-Product-Conversion-Status


Thank you very much for the reply!

Jimmy