FGU: Savage Worlds Deluxe: Weird War II: Script Errror 100% Reproduction

[Will Tomorrow]

EDIT: This issue has been resolved.

Hey, I've been trying to run a WWII campaign but the extension is riddled with Script errors.

The most obvious and problematic one, that makes the system absolutely unusable is whenever you attempt to interact with the Agility or Strength dice (or any of the skill dice governed by those attributes) it returns the following script error.

[ERROR] Script execution error: [string] "scripts/manager_gamesystem_swd.lua"] attempt to call field 'addPenaltyIgnoredSlot' (a nil value)

Steps to reproduce.
1. Launch Fantasy Grounds Unity
2. Create a Session with the Savage Worlds Deluxe Ruleset.
3. Add the Weird Wars 2 Setting extension.
4. Launch the Session.
5. Create a PC.
6. Interact with the Agility or Strength attribute dice

Expected Outcome
The dice can be rolled, and the results displayed in the chat log.

Actual Outcome
The game returns the Script Error: [ERROR] Script execution error: [string] "scripts/manager_gamesystem_swd.lua"] attempt to call field 'addPenaltyIgnoredSlot' (a nil value). The chat log doesn't denote the dice rolled. This also occurs with skill dice, associated with the Strength and Agility attributes.


Anything that could be done to resolve this would be amazing. I would love to run this system on my Twitch channel, but it is no state to do so currently. As it currently stands, you can't roll any shooting or melee attacks in Fantasy Grounds using this setting, which makes the module really unusable - Especially considering it's a setting focused on, you know... A World War.

I'd appreciate any traction here. I've been a little miffed with how buggy a few of my Savage Worlds purchases have run, but I've never spent money on one that literally didn't work on a the base level before.

[Doswelk]

What happens without the WWII extension loaded, I do not think there is anything in the extension that should break it, more likely FGC/FGU bug.

[Will Tomorrow]

I mean, that's less than reassuring if that's the official response. I'd expect it to work as advertised, across both versions.

I run several campaigns in both Savage Worlds Deluxe and SWADE in both FGU and FGC. This is the only module in which I and my players experience this (particular) issue.

Without the extension installed, when I pick up the Agility and Strength dice, they don't immediately return the aforementioned string error. They roll, and they return the information you'd expect in the chat. With the extension installed, it's 100% reproducible. It's been a few years since I worked in software QA, but it seems pretty clear cut that the extension is the issue.

I have nearly $2k sunk into FG content over half a decade, this is the first time one of my purchases has been completely non-functional. Sometimes, the modules are really slapdash, but Weird Wars 2 is the only one I've used that has made FG less functional than just rolling dice with a pdf over discord. Really disappointing QA with FG stuff, just generally, but this one takes the cake so far.

[Doswelk]

That wasn't an official response, it was me just asking, updates sometimes break non 5e settings in FGU/FGC.

So it does seem limited to WWII at least, Suzanne Grapperhaus was the developer for that setting, do not know her personally, hopefully she will respond soon.

[Will Tomorrow]

Yeah, sometimes Savage Worlds feels like the red headed step child in VTT. I just wanna roll some d4's with my buddies.

I will say the most recent Deadlands seems a cut above the typical QA Standard. I'll be pleased as punch if it's indicative of the quality of the modules moving forward.

[Will Tomorrow]

Did a little more QA. The extension works as expected in Fantasy Grounds Classic (which would be great if I wasn't after the QoL features of Unity).

I get the same Script error even with the Weird War II theme turned off in FGU. Just Savage Worlds Deluxe, the Weird Wars II Player and GM guide, 100% reproducible when trying to use Agility/Strength or any skill governed by those attributes.

I would add that I make my own modules in FG regularly, I'm familiar with SWEL and NPC Maker, I can create custom arcane background extensions, automate all kinds of functions - I'm pretty familiar with the software, but flummoxed here. If it turns out that this will only run in FGC, the advertising needs to reflect that somehow.

[Trenloe]

This happens in both FGC and FGU. You probably haven't updated FGC.

This isn't a case of Savage Worlds being a red headed step-child or anything else. Savage Worlds is incredibly well supports in Fantasy Grounds. This is a case of something slipping through in the recent ruleset update that was released yesterday.

The best way to get things fixed is to report issues such as this. Thanks very much for reporting. I'm sure the devs will get this fixed ASAP.

You've made some other comments about your displeasure with FG Savage Worlds products. Keep in mind that Fantasy Grounds has had official Savage Worlds products available for as long as I've been on these forums. So some older products aren't going to look as polished as the new ones. They were great in their day, but FG functionality has moved on and so may not hold up to current expectations. Few FG community devs who created older products will want to spend the time to update them. I don't think this warrants removing older products from the store - unless they are truly broken. But, as with anything, opinions on this may differ. So, as with any Fantasy Grounds purchase, if you're not happy with the product you bought there is a 30 days no questions asked refund policy.

[Will Tomorrow]

Yeah, I've been an Ultimate license holder since 2015 or so myself, it's come a long way since then.

When I compare the support/quality of modules of D&D to the Savage Worlds stuff in Fantasy Grounds, it's a pretty stark comparison, and one that doesn't break in Savage World's favor. I'm sure it's a function of marketshare, but it is a noteworthy discrepancy. I mean heck, there isn't even coherent documentation for all the FG Settings specific to Savage Worlds. We can't pretend it's on like... parity.

I purchased the Weird War II stuff a couple of months ago. Even if I hadn't, the vast majority of my FG purchases came from the Steam Marketplace, which doesn't allow refunds on 'DLC', but that's their policy, not you fine peoples.

I've got thousands of dollars of FGU modules across a bunch of systems, it's not a case of unfamiliarity with the way things work around here, as seems to be the implication. I've been playing Deadlands Reloaded with FGC since it was nothing but script errors (The Weird West is much better put together so far). This has been an issue since before the most recent ruleset update with Weird Wars, as I messed around with it for a moment when I bought it, but it wasn't an issue until I started trying to get PC's created for the Twitch show I was gonna showcase the software/module with.

I'm not suggesting it need not be sold, or anything so drastic as that - just not advertised as FGU ready if this can't be resolved, which I'm still hopeful it will be.

EDIT: You're 100% correct. I apparently hadn't updated FGC, it is also non-functional over there now. Which is odd. FGC used to notify me that I had pending updates by changing the color of the update button in the launcher, it no longer appears to do that. That being said, it has never functioned in FGU, but is now 100% reproducible across both platforms.

[Trenloe]

...just not advertised as FGU ready if this can't be resolved, which I'm still hopeful it will be.
Your posts are coming across as you think this won't be fixed. You found an issue, you're reported it 13 hours ago (great, thanks for that), the devs will fix it, give them a chance. In the whole of your time on Fantasy Grounds have you known the devs to just leave something broken, let alone then mark something as "not ready" in the store?

[Will Tomorrow]

Truly and honestly? Yeah. All kinds of stuff.

Modules are rife with simple stuff, like grammar and transcription issues that seem permanent. Probably because they don't directly impact functionality, so they aren't reported? But still definitely missed by anything resembling an editorial eye before being pushed to the store. I have several modules with chapters organized incoherently, by alphabetical order or celestial alignment, it would seem. Mutants and Masterminds was terribly broken 4 years ago, 2 years ago, and I reckon probably still now, I could go through my library and document more, but I have 106 modules - a simple majority of which have some formatting issue or another, at least. If not some scripting issues.

I enjoy this software, obviously, as I've invested an inordinate amount of time and money in it, but is has some real quality assurance issues that persist. There is no customer facing documentation of feature changes (see the most recent changes to the sidebar images and the forum posts of confusion). As a purchaser of Fantasy Gounds, I have to do the bug testing and reporting to get any traction on an issue, and even then - there are numerous dead end script error threads in these forums. I'd wager many, many more than there are resolved ones.

I don't think it is entirely pessimistic to think this might not be an issue that gets resolution, in 13 hours, days, weeks, etc.

I appreciate your perspective, but I think you're painting me with the wrong end of the brush here. Full stop - there are a lot of issues with Fantasy Grounds as a product.

If it was D&D, or more popular or contemporary ruleset, I'd be a little less cagey with my prognostication. I truly and sincerely hope to be proved wrong in this instance though!

[Trenloe]

1) FG converters will convert the base product from the publisher as is. If there is grammatical issues in the base product, then they will remain in FG. That's not the fault or responsibility of FG so unfair to lay that at FGs door.
2) Layout and conversion design can vary from community developer to developer. And can also be heavily influenced by the original product. As mentioned before, older products had less of the more useful organizational tools (reference manuals, grouped lists, etc.) that were available early in FGs history. So, yes, taking a side-by-side comparison of new products vs. old will show a big difference.
3) If you have specific issues please report them clearly and succinctly in the forums. If things aren't reported they can't get fixed. SmiteWorks have employed more customer support and technical people over the last couple of years. Errors in products do get fixed. They obviously get prioritised, like any software company does with bugs, but errors do get fixed.

[Will Tomorrow]

100% I use SWEL to covert custom Savage Worlds modules all the time. I then have to go back through to make sure that things are formatted correctly, manually edit things, script in the effects automation for the edges, write custom extensions for new arcane backgrounds, Capitalize the odd word. I consider all of that legwork part of the conversion process. It is clear that some "community developers" are more into that than others, but as a dude that also owns a BUNCH of physical copies of the things that I've bought on Fantasy Grounds, it's patently false to say that it is usually the fault of the source material. That's like, c'mon dude - We're trying to have a real conversation here I thought.

It's bananas to me that the stated expectation is that it's the customers job to do the QA on products already on the marketplace, but that is a huge digression from my original point.

It's clear that I've raised your hackles here, and it is neither my intent nor something I'm really interested in - so I'm just gonna redirect it to the original post. This is an issue with 100% reproduction that it would be wonderful to have addressed in a timely manner. I hope both that and the original post are succinct enough to merit attention by the folks capable of fixing the issue. Have a good day!

[Trenloe]

...it's patently false to say that it is usually the fault of the source material.
That's not what I was saying at all. If there is a definite error, then that is something that should be fixed. Which is what I keep saying.


That's like, c'mon dude - We're trying to have a real conversation here I thought.
Huh? What's the even supposed to mean?


It's bananas to me that the stated expectation is that it's the customers job to do the QA on products already on the marketplace, but that is a huge digression from my original point.
Again, I never said that. What I'm addressing is your bemoaning of issues going back years. All I'm saying is that if you find an issue, please report it. I'm not defending actual problems in the products. But if they have got passed QA then the only way people are going to know about issues is if they're reported.


It's clear that I've raised your hackles here, and it is neither my intent nor something I'm really interested in - so I'm just gonna redirect it to the original post. This is an issue with 100% reproduction that it would be wonderful to have addressed in a timely manner. I hope both that and the original post are succinct enough to merit attention by the folks capable of fixing the issue. Have a good day!
Thank you. That's all your original post needed to get this issue fixed.

Again, thank you for reporting the issue. I have 100% confidence that this will be addressed.

[ddavison]

I have notified the extension developer and provided a link to this forum thread. Stay tuned for updates and thanks for reporting it.

[Will Tomorrow]

Again, I never said that. What I'm addressing is your bemoaning of issues going back years. All I'm saying is that if you find an issue, please report it. I'm not defending actual problems in the products. But if they have got passed QA then the only way people are going to know about issues is if they're reported.

It's just that the glaring nature of some of the issues speaks to an utter lack of editorial or QA oversight. It's certainly not EVERY module (If it was, I wouldn't be a customer) but it is enough to make it clear that there are issues with the reliance on "community developers" to get content to market. I know the folks at Pinnacle are nigh fascistic with the grammatical editorial oversight before they allow a product to be released under their license. They'd be aghast at the state of some of their content here.

Again, that is completely removed from my point, but there are whole settings I've purchased and then immediately realized weren't functional enough to use over dice and paper. It's a topic for another thread, on another day, but 100% an issue not just relegated to modules released in the ancient yesteryore of 2016.

[Will Tomorrow]

I have notified the extension developer and provided a link to this forum thread. Stay tuned for updates and thanks for reporting it.

You are a gentleman and a scholar, thank you!

[ddavison]

We perform a fairly thorough, but mostly automated technical review prior to releasing any new products. It doesn't perform any editorial review. It checks for script errors on load and it clicks on various buttons and links in the module looking for any broken links. It does not delve into more complex interactions with newly created data. We would love to have that, but it is beyond the scope of our initial test.

We send a notice to each publisher a week prior to release and they can place a hold on any product prior to release. None of our partners currently do a thorough editorial review, that I'm aware of. Their assumption is probably that we are translating it directly from edited content. If an error in text was introduced as part of the translation, then this would likely slip through and go unfixed without any reports to our customer support email.

For new ruleset updates, we similarly do not conduct a full backward regression test on everything previously released (1800+ products). We test as much of this as we can in any products we expect to get impacted.

We do try to fix reported errors or get them routed to our community devs to get fixed under our contract with them. It's part of our agreement which pays them ongoing commissions on sales of those products. Beyond that, we offer a 30-day money back guarantee for anyone who purchases something and is not satisfied with the product. It's an imperfect process, but one that produces a good balance of new product releases and happy customers.

[Moon Wizard]

A hotfix has been pushed for the SWD ruleset, which should address this error. Can you please run a new update, and let us know if you are still seeing the error?

Regards,
JPG

[Will Tomorrow]

The mostly automated bit likely explains the issues. I did about a half decade of software QA in the game industry, and nothing beats the MKI human eyeball. That is understandably cost prohibitive though. Editorial review is very badly needed on some level though. The Weird War II GM guide (whilst on the topic) has clearly never had a human lay eyes on it. Formatting errors are rife, Content is disordered, Chapters out of whack - literally unusable as a reference guide. I'd wager most the links work though.

I'm actually surprised they don't take the opportunity to check it out. I can see PEG not having the resources, but like WotC? That's genuinely surprising. A good insight into the process.

Reading over my posts, I do come off a touch more hostile than I intended, you've provided some good context for the way I've been experiencing your software/business model. Valuable insights that I sincerely thank you for.

Is there a definitive forum post somewhere that discusses the community developer process? I'd like to know more about it, not so much as a potential developer, but as an interested laymen, for every one of the 106 modules I've purchased, I've transcribed like, two more, mostly in the dark. If there is a more active place with people who have monetary incentive to do the transcribing, they probably have their finger on the pulse of the thing.

Thanks again.

[Will Tomorrow]

I can no longer reproduce the issue in FGU. I imagine the same hotfix will have resolved the issue in FGC too. I would consider the matter fully resolved. Thank you very much so for your diligence, and I am happy to have been wrong in my prognostication!