Map Mask Mode is Unusable in FG Unity

[Minty23185Fresh]

Today I ran my first session using FGU, instead of my old friend FGC. I am sure it’s the learning curve...

Please tell me I’ve missed a setting and that it just ain’t so... but Unity is absolutely unusable if I constantly have to right click toggle (radial menu) between mask mode (to incrementally clear portions of the mask) and non mask mode (to manipulate tokens or otherwise interact with non mask portions of the map). This is so broken that I can’t even hover over tokens and glean details such as which NPC the token represents (its name).

Gulp. Help. I’m drowning in disillusionment.

[Ulric]

I think most FGU are using LOS now. I haven't used the mask feature since I converted my campaign over from FGC. I created a new campaign and I could not find a way to move tokens and edit the mask at the sames time like I could in classic. I do think that is a feature that should be carried over from FGC. I hope we are just overlooking how to use use it now.

[damned]

I would most definitely be trying to use LoS only.

[Neovirtus]

We definitely need hotkeys for mask/unmask mode to more easily switch between modes without multiple sidebar clicks. Only using LoS is definitely not a solution all the time.

[Minty23185Fresh]

We definitely need hotkeys for mask/unmask mode to more easily switch between modes without multiple sidebar clicks. Only using LoS is definitely not a solution all the time.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ll probably start working on another extension tomorrow. This doesn’t seem like a difficult problem to solve. Essentially tie it into some custom slash handler commands then hot keys to call the slash handlers. (He says with naive confidence :) .)

[LordEntrails]

Will look forward to this and hope you share, like usual :) I too find the mask mode annoying to use but I still find uses for it.

[Minty23185Fresh]

Will look forward to this and hope you share, like usual :) I too find the mask mode annoying to use but I still find uses for it.

If anyone has any ideas about facets that would be helpful, I’d like to hear them.

As I mentioned, I’m thinking that custom slash commands would be easy to implement.

Hot keys to trigger the slash commands are simple for anyone to implement. This allows some flexibility, one can add the hot key commands to whichever bank of hot keys they wish.

It’s my opinion that some sort of visual representation is necessary; some way for the DM to recognize which mode the map is in, mask edit mode or non mask mode. The map’s menu comes immediately to mind. A button or icon there would be helpful. It could also be used to trigger the mode. Maybe grey when normal, non mask, and red when in mask mode?

Would toggling the grid color help? Red grid when in mask mode? I don’t know if I can do this without toggling the players grid too.

Please feel free to add your ideas. I won’t promise to implement them but I’ll at least listen.

Thanks.

[Minty23185Fresh]

I also implore the developers at SmiteWorks to chime in here. Is this something that is on the radar? Will you guys be adding this functionality soon? If so I’d be a fool to pursue this when you all can do so, so much more quickly and efficiently. Thanks in advance guys.

[LordEntrails]

Slash handlers seem the most robust choice. A right mouse is context sensitive and not very quick to get into and out of. And as you say, adding a slash to the hot bar is easy. I would suggest a toggle, rather than seperate on and off handlers, though you might want those too.

As for an indicator, the problem I see with the map menu is that it's not always shown. Depends if the menu bar is shown or not, plus when map is sent to background or maximized, they don't show well either. Toggling the map grid color, maybe, but it's already possible for the GM to set the grid to red anyway, so not sure that would work.

What about a mouse cursor change? To me that would be an ideal indicator. It's the center of the user's attention/focus. It is already pretty standard for programs to change what it looks like based upon current function (pointer, hand, etc)

[Minty23185Fresh]

@LordEntrails
I agree with right click, especially since that’s how it works now, through the radial context menu. (Plus I believe I asked a couple years ago about right click, and double click and iIRC I was told those are unavailable to the community developer, reserved by the system.)

I haven’t any clue if mouse pointer is accessible to the community developer. Great idea. You’re right, it is front-and-center!

And true grid color is problematic, I’d have to sense the color and if it was “too” reddish go to green or something. Maybe I can goof around with the color of the map’s frame.

As always thanks friend, for your input.

[EllivasKram]

I pointed out that masking unmasking is a terrible user experience.

I was left thinking I must be the only person wanting to restrict vision distances of LOS with the mask feature.

As the GPU/CPU demands of FGU is only going to increase with LOS ambient light and vision. I see this being a more important feature for groups with aged laptop/desktops.

Can’t understand why the tools were removed from the map icon bar.

[Zacchaeus]

If you need to use the mask it might be easier to leave the map unlocked so you have access to the mask tool at all times. Dunno if that's easier than right clicking

[Minty23185Fresh]

If you need to use the mask it might be easier to leave the map unlocked so you have access to the mask tool at all times. Dunno if that's easier than right clicking
Thank you Zacchaeus, I’ll take a look.

[Jiminimonka]

Today I ran my first session using FGU, instead of my old friend FGC. I am sure it’s the learning curve...

Please tell me I’ve missed a setting and that it just ain’t so... but Unity is absolutely unusable if I constantly have to right click toggle (radial menu) between mask mode (to incrementally clear portions of the mask) and non mask mode (to manipulate tokens or otherwise interact with non mask portions of the map). This is so broken that I can’t even hover over tokens and glean details such as which NPC the token represents (its name).

Gulp. Help. I’m drowning in disillusionment.

I used the mask today on my FGU map drawn entirely in FGU and there were no problems.

[wndrngdru]

I used the mask today on my FGU map drawn entirely in FGU and there were no problems.

It's not that it doesn't work. It's that it now takes a right-click plus 2 clicks to do the same thing that a single click on the toolbar used to do. That's just annoying.

[Jiminimonka]

It's not that it doesn't work. It's that it now takes a right-click plus 2 clicks to do the same thing that a single click on the toolbar used to do. That's just annoying.

Ah - yeah a bit.

[ddavison]

Most of the toolbar features were moved to the new image data control that shows up when the image is unlocked. You can change modes from there and adjust the global mask. Let us know if that doesn’t work for you very well in practice.

[Minty23185Fresh]

Most of the toolbar features were moved to the new image data control that shows up when the image is unlocked. You can change modes from there and adjust the global mask. Let us know if that doesn’t work for you very well in practice.
Thank you Mr. Davison for attending this thread. I obviously can’t speak for others who have posted here, but for me it does not work well.

To my mind, the map should typically be locked during play. Unlocking the map and exposing the tools is not something one should need to do during game play. Those tools are for setup and editing. The loss of desktop real estate to the unlocked “design” tools is also a factor.

But that is not the big issue, for me at least. Right clicking for the radial context menu then navigating to the submenu to go into edit mask mode is acceptable (during game play), IF I only had to do it once. But with FGU it’s an all or nothing thing.

If the map is in edit mask mode, I cannot otherwise interact with the map. I can’t move tokens, or open pinned links, heck I can’t even glean information about those tokens and links using hover.

This binary behavior necessitates incessant right clicking and navigating the radial menu to turn edit mask mode on and off and expose the desired behavior. A truly unpalatable feature of FGU. In my opinion, there has been a loss, or at least a crippling, of functionality.

[Jiminimonka]

Thank you Mr. Davison for attending this thread. I obviously can’t speak for others who have posted here, but for me it does not work well.

To my mind, the map should typically be locked during play. Unlocking the map and exposing the tools is not something one should need to do during game play. Those tools are for setup and editing. The loss of desktop real estate to the unlocked “design” tools is also a factor.

But that is not the big issue, for me at least. Right clicking for the radial context menu then navigating to the submenu to go into edit mask mode is acceptable (during game play), IF I only had to do it once. But with FGU it’s an all or nothing thing.

If the map is in edit mask mode, I cannot otherwise interact with the map. I can’t move tokens, or open pinned links, heck I can’t even glean information about those tokens and links using hover.

This binary behavior necessitates incessant right clicking and navigating the radial menu to turn edit mask mode on and off and expose the desired behavior. A truly unpalatable feature of FGU. In my opinion, there has been a loss, or at least a crippling, of functionality.

Maybe mask mode can be added to the Toolbar along with Zoom to Fit, Drawing and Eraser modes.

[LordEntrails]

Doug, I agree with Minty on this. Edit mode takes a lot of space and I try to use it only when editing, not playing. As well as being unable to otherwise interact with the map when in mask mode is an significant hinderance.

Either making it easier to get in/out of mask mode or (preferably) being to otherwise interact with the map while in mask mode would be greatly appreciated.

[Neovirtus]

I will wholeheartedly agree that leaving a map locked would be ideal, and currently the binary state of EITHER able to use masking tools OR interact with the map is a step backward in terms of usability of the software. If I decide that I'm going to add a spell effect token or change the lighting of the scene, I feel those are reasonable things to have to unlock the map to do. On the other hand, when my players are interacting with a map the requires masking (basically any map that isn't a tactical 5 ft grid in my game), switching back and forth to move/control NPC's, then to reveal map, over and over is a real chore in FGU. Dynamic lighting will fix a few of these use cases, but not the majority of them for me.

[kevininrussia]

Masking for player vision is a pain as its implemented now, but when Dynamic Lighting and Vision becomes available I will only be using masks for effects layers.

[Minty23185Fresh]

I've been exploring Zacchaeus's and ddavison's suggestion: Map Unlocking.

My findings are here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?65912-Why-Unlocking-a-Map-(in-FGU)-to-Edit-Masks-is-Overly-Cumbersome)

[Egheal]

Dynamic lighting will be released in a matter of days. I think it will render the mask obsolete, don't you think ?

[LordEntrails]

Dynamic lighting will be released in a matter of days. I think it will render the mask obsolete, don't you think ?
I don't think that is true. Ruleset updated ware scheduled to be released Feb 16th. And I believe that Moon Wizard said that lightning and vision will be the next release after the ruleset update.

If my memory is correct, then it could be days or weeks later.

[Neovirtus]

Dynamic lighting will be released in a matter of days. I think it will render the mask obsolete, don't you think ?

No I don't think so. I use masking a lot for images that are not to scale, or not tactical maps (isometric or world maps most often). I agree it will fix a few use cases, but I don't think that's any reason not to improve the way it works.

[Griogre]

Dynamic lighting will be released in a matter of days. I think it will render the mask obsolete, don't you think ?

Not really, there will always be corner cases, though it will become less important.

Dynamic lighting won't handle Darkness for example. If you have multiple floors of a tower on one map you might want to just mask the floors the party isn't on, especially if you made the map on the fly.

From a UI point of view, it usually is best to separate "edit" and "play" modes for clarity and future feature expansion and I hope Smiteworks does.

Edit forgot the quote...

[Egheal]

I see your points gentlemen, thanks.
Indeed, an easier way to use mask could be a real improvement for sure.
@LordEntrails : please let me dream of a quick release don't be that guy ;-)

[Jiminimonka]

I've been exploring Zacchaeus's and ddavison's suggestion: Map Unlocking.

My findings are here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?65912-Why-Unlocking-a-Map-(in-FGU)-to-Edit-Masks-is-Overly-Cumbersome)

Yeah so adding it to the tool bar. Simple.

[LordEntrails]

@LordEntrails : please let me dream of a quick release don't be that guy ;-)
Oh, no! I didn't mean to take your dreams from you! Bad me!!!
</end humor> :)

[Minty23185Fresh]

I am not an LoS convert yet. Just exploring it. My first two first experiences, one as DM one as player, were less than acceptable. The new grail, “dynamic”, is there an actual spec document, or just rumors and player hope-so’s?

[Kelrugem]

I am not an LoS convert yet. Just exploring it. My first two first experiences, one as DM one as player, were less than acceptable. The new grail, “dynamic”, is there an actual spec document, or just rumors and player hope-so’s?

For LoS see: https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/996640166/Working+with+Images+as+the+GM

Sneak peek for dynamic lighting here: https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/1172766725/Upcoming+Features+Highlight+Sneak+Peek :)

[Minty23185Fresh]

@Kelrugem, a wealth of info, thank you.

[ddavison]

I pointed Moon Wizard to this thread and I think he already has a solution for it checked in. Look for an update when we release the lighting build.

[Minty23185Fresh]

Sincerely, Thank you very much ddavison.