Creating your own maps

[SilentRuin]

I'm looking for advice on how to create your own maps.

Are there map maker tools that make it easier?

I've looked at SW's FGU art subscription but I'm worried about if I ever stop it all my maps are essentially replaced with red question marks. Or do you use the tools to create a map - take a screen shot - then put that image in as you map so you don't lose anything if you ever end the subscription?

Looking for advice on creating maps. Currently all I've ever done is map maps based on existing images online that I use FGU to add LOS. And soon lighting in the next week or two. Just want to see what direction I should go in long term.

[Griogre]

Look at DungeonDraft and Dungeon Painter Studio as low cost, easy to use mappers that are stand alone. Both have a way to generate FG LOS data. I used Dungeon Painter Studio for a long time but switched to DungeonDraft six months ago because it's faster and easier to use. Dungeon Painter Studio just went to version 2 and DungeonDraft just went to version 1. There is Arkenforge with is more expensive and is a campaign manager, mapper, light VTT that does also export maps to FG.

If you want a web based tile mapper try Dave's Mapper: https://davesmapper.com/

If you want random auto generated including maps and dungeon stuff for D&D / Pathfinder, Donjon is a good site: https://donjon.bin.sh/

Edit: forgot to mention you can pull Donjon maps into Dungeon Painter Studio and thus convert them to FG LOS too.

[damned]

I think I might own every possible mapping software...
They all work... pick one and run with it.
Despite its many quirks DungeonDraft is a good option.

[Guybie]

I was enjoying the fg mapping... but then it got too slow! I can't find any way to export maps as Jpeg. So I have messed around with a couple and settled on arkenforge.

[Trenloe]

Some options listed here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20879-Map-Making-Software-summary

It hasn't been updated for a while, but the info is still valid.

[Griogre]

Dungeon Painter on that list is dead since flash is dead though you can still download the website to run locally.

[SilentRuin]

I was enjoying the fg mapping... but then it got too slow! I can't find any way to export maps as Jpeg. So I have messed around with a couple and settled on arkenforge.

Yeah that's what's got me worried about FG mapping - I'd have to screen shot it to actually get a map and then LOS/light that version. Which may not be as high quality as I could normally achieve. Is there any plans for their mapping to actually output maps and not just build them in their internal logic?

[Svandal]

I think I might own every possible mapping software...
They all work... pick one and run with it.
Despite its many quirks DungeonDraft is a good option.

I am a bit curious. Is other map making software much faster than creating maps in fantasy grounds unity?
I usually dont care that much about getting the smaller detail right if that has anything to say.

I have mostly placed tiles from tiles sets until now, but I have started exploring the possibilities unity offers in map making.

[macDsinfo]

I was going to ask the same thing - why not just make them in fgu? is there a performance hit using the software to do it all?

[SilentRuin]

I was going to ask the same thing - why not just make them in fgu? is there a performance hit using the software to do it all?

My worry is that if I end the subscription all my maps would turn into piles question marks. The only way I can think to make a permanent raw image from what I'm reading is to screen shot it as there is no way to "output" the map into a .jpeg (etc.) type of commonly accepted format. Which means I have to first make the map. Then screen shot it into image. Then reload the image. Then LOS and light that. I am wrong? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here?

[LordEntrails]

I was going to ask the same thing - why not just make them in fgu? is there a performance hit using the software to do it all?
There can be. But it can go either way.

For instance, say you make a map in FGU using 5 different tiles for a map that is 20 x 20 tiles (so maybe 200 x 200 squares). FGU only has to load those 5 different image assets. Very fast, much faster/less RAM usage than if I create that same 20x20 map in something else and import it (assuming same asset resolution/number of pixels).

But, if instead in FGU take that same map as above and add a few thousand different elements to it (stamps, brushes, etc) to detail out the walls, furniture, bushes and everything else. Then MAYBE that will require more processing than an image made externally that doesn't have overlapping image entities (because once exported, it's just one pixel for each pixel).

Maybe cpinder might have some thoughts, but it's not a simple issue and is going to be dependent upon each use case. Personally, if you don't already have a preferred mapping program, then just learn mapping in FGU if you don't need more than what it provides. Josh has done some pretty amazing maps with it, see his stream or this thread; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61251-FGU-Image-and-Map-Module-Exchange

[LordEntrails]

My worry is that if I end the subscription all my maps would turn into piles question marks.
Which is why the art pack subscription is not for me :)

[macDsinfo]

There can be. But it can go either way.

For instance, say you make a map in FGU using 5 different tiles for a map that is 20 x 20 tiles (so maybe 200 x 200 squares). FGU only has to load those 5 different image assets. Very fast, much faster/less RAM usage than if I create that same 20x20 map in something else and import it (assuming same asset resolution/number of pixels).

But, if instead in FGU take that same map as above and add a few thousand different elements to it (stamps, brushes, etc) to detail out the walls, furniture, bushes and everything else. Then MAYBE that will require more processing than an image made externally that doesn't have overlapping image entities (because once exported, it's just one pixel for each pixel).

Maybe cpinder might have some thoughts, but it's not a simple issue and is going to be dependent upon each use case. Personally, if you don't already have a preferred mapping program, then just learn mapping in FGU if you don't need more than what it provides. Josh has done some pretty amazing maps with it, see his stream or this thread; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?61251-FGU-Image-and-Map-Module-Exchangeok, but I still thought that that even with an intricate map, it is better to let FGU do it because the software is handling it all on the client side. having the maps preloaded I thought might make a difference, too, as the initial load might be longer, once in, everything seems smooth.

I have no idea how the processing is distributed with the maps made in fgu; I would love to know more about it - because the maps are great, but I use ALOT of the assets to make them...

[LordEntrails]

I don't know if map assets are processed on the client of host side. That would be beneficial in many cases, but could also cause differences between what is displayed or performance with different clients.

[macDsinfo]

wonder if we can find out answers to these questions, as figuring out best practices to optimize performance is something in which I am very interested...

[Guybie]

The ability to export maps as jpeg or some such is essential. The slowness in making big maps is frustrating.as a n00b to mapping I am sure I can streamline my approach, but finding how has been a challenge. The gen con tutorial was great, Joshua's art is great. I hope that there is a way to speed it up. I have been trying to minimise the amount of images and layers.

I have started now with arkenforge and plan to import maps then use some detail from fg for logging stuff.

[Mytherus]

Now its very important one understands I'm by no means great at map making, but its a skill I'd like to improve as I do enjoy creating my own maps. That said I really like Inkarnate Pro - outdoor maps can be whipped up in literally just minutes yet they look really good. I also own CC3 , still trying to learn it as it has a steep learning curve but its a very powerful map maker. From what I've read a lot of the "pro" map makers even use it. (Most notable , oh crap I forgot his last name --- first name is Mike, but he makes maps for official Wotc stuff, CC3 is one of the tools he uses). I'm JUST and I mean literally in the last week playing around with the FGU mapping tools. I also use Dungeon Painter Studio , but I haven't touch that for a couple months now.

[Verdigris]

Personally, I use Dungeondraft and Wonderdraft. I'm eagerly awaiting Project Deios (the alpha shows promise). Dungeon Painter Studio is available on Steam as a installed program and pretty good if you get used to it. He's working on a new version that includes a FGU export, supposedly. FlowScape also can be used for some gorgeous outdoor maps, but the UI is janky as hell.

[seycyrus]

... (Most notable , oh crap I forgot his last name --- first name is Mike, but he makes maps for official Wotc stuff, CC3 is one of the tools he uses)...

Mike Schley.

[Jiminimonka]

I'm buy the art packs slowly and using the sub. But Forgotten Adventures asset packs for map making work in FGU and are pretty cheap considering how many brushes, textures and other assets you get for a patreon sub. FGU maps are the way to go - low latency because players don't have to load huge bitmap maps they just download the assets brushes and FG builds the map at the players end. Plus interactive maps! Think about it.

[SilentRuin]

I'm buy the art packs slowly and using the sub. But Forgotten Adventures asset packs for map making work in FGU and are pretty cheap considering how many brushes, textures and other assets you get for a patreon sub. FGU maps are the way to go - low latency because players don't have to load huge bitmap maps they just download the assets brushes and FG builds the map at the players end. Plus interactive maps! Think about it.

Interactive? Pretty sure that is just the LOS and lighting which are independent of image you are using (what created it) correct? Does anyone know if SW are planning to develop an ability to export/save an image file for storage on a disk drive? (.jpeg, etc.)

[LordEntrails]

Interactive? Pretty sure that is just the LOS and lighting which are independent of image you are using (what created it) correct? Does anyone know if SW are planning to develop an ability to export/save an image file for storage on a disk drive? (.jpeg, etc.)
Not yet, vote for the idea here; https://fgapp.idea.informer.com/proj/fgapp?ia=135554

[Jiminimonka]

Interactive? Pretty sure that is just the LOS and lighting which are independent of image you are using (what created it) correct? Does anyone know if SW are planning to develop an ability to export/save an image file for storage on a disk drive? (.jpeg, etc.)

I'm working on a map now. When its ready I will let you take a look.

[SilentRuin]

Update: I went with a year's subscription of the FG Art package. I figure if I ever stop using it, I can first screen shot each layer and load the images in my project - Load them back in and scale them to exact size matches - then remove everything but the LOS and lighting data.

Going to test out building a couple maps for FG CON 16 once the newer art packages and lighting demonstrated in recent videos go live.

[gajet480]

I want to make maps for my D&D 5E games. I like both Dungeon Draft and Master's Tookit, but I am not sure which works better (or at all) with FGU. Any comments?

[Jiminimonka]

I want to make maps for my D&D 5E games. I like both Dungeon Draft and Master's Tookit, but I am not sure which works better (or at all) with FGU. Any comments?

Did you read this thread or just post a message based on the subject? ;)

Dungeondraft or use FGU with the Art Subscription.

[Griogre]

I want to make maps for my D&D 5E games. I like both Dungeon Draft and Master's Tookit, but I am not sure which works better (or at all) with FGU. Any comments?

TLDR: It depends on how much prep time you want - Arkenforge is more complex to use and will take longer to make maps, but has a better outdoor terrain export to FGU, while Dungeondraft is simpler and more limited and easier to use (faster) but the script only exports walls and door LOS (dungeon) elements.

FGU is harder to say, but it does use high resolution elements (100 pixel tiles and almost certainly 32 bit color) and if you make your maps "artsy" with lots of different tiles, objects and brushes its probably worse memory wise than the stand alones. On the other hand if you only use 3 tiles, a few different objects and one brush and the map size is > 30 x 30 squares it likely beats the stand alones.

[Milmoor]

I created my outdoor maps using FlowScape. Very quick results. And it can create 360 images of the landscape like these (https://roundme.com/tour/446798/view/1541862/) to give a better feeling of the surroundings. It can export to Arkenforge apparently, but haven't tested this. Arkenforge can export LOS, but I would assume it will need some tune ups. Haven't tested that either, since Arkenforge seemed overkill. Still seemed an interesting combo. I download moss of my maps from Reddit, and since FGU am using those which came with the books because of the LOS.

[Wandering Canuck]

What! Any good vids on how to make a map with donjon and dump it into Dungeon Painter to get LOS. Starting my google search now but that is amazing. Was going to buy the tile sets but frankly it is a bit expensive for what I'm getting. 10 bucks for a single "flavor". Great product just too expensive.

[Trenloe]

What! Any good vids on how to make a map with donjon and dump it into Dungeon Painter to get LOS. Starting my google search now but that is amazing. Was going to buy the tile sets but frankly it is a bit expensive for what I'm getting. 10 bucks for a single "flavor". Great product just too expensive.
Maybe the art subscription might be of more interest/use: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/home/FGUArtSub.php

[caballan]

The Art subscription is a good deal I think, given everything it adds. It does let you use/browse all the official map art packs. So what you could do is get it for a year (or month) and try making maps with it. Then, go through and see what art packs you actual used. Once you have a list, decide if it is better to permanently purchases just those art packs or if you need to keep the art subscription. For me, there where 6 art packages I used a lot of, and almost none of the others. However, keep in mind the art subscription changes each month. They are always adding more at no additional cost to the people that have the art subscription.

For those who do not want the art subscription or want to add to it, you can import images from outside FGU to use. I think someone above already pointed out the Forgotten Adventures packs, so those are one example of an outside resource you can get/buy and then pull into fantasy grounds. You do that by either putting the assets into your campaign/image folder or, you can do it at the higher level of Fantasy Grounds/images. If you do it at the campaign level it is just for the campaign you put it into. If you do it at the Fantasy Grounds level, it applies to all your campaigns. A warning though, if you use an image and then move its location, the map you used it on losses track of it. For example, starting out you just put everything in the image folder. Later, you noticed that at over 1,000 images you want to split this out into subfolders. So you add the sub folder and organize all your images. When you pull the maps back up, the images will show as red ? marks because the art asset is "gone". So I personally recommend storing images like these at the Fantasy Grounds level for generics (trees, rocks, walls, barrels, tables, chairs, etc) and at the campaign level for things like maps and handouts. Set your folders/organization ahead of time, and you can avoid the red ?.

If you don't want to do any of that and just want to get one art package to try the tools out with, I would suggest the Fantasy Grounds 2019 Art Package for $15. Lots of pieces in that art package for doing outside maps, and by far the best buy out of the list. It does not have interior map assets like chairs, chests, wood floors, etc. though. Something like 90% of my outside maps use just that art package.

Also, if you want help figuring out how to use the fantasy ground map tools, watch the twitch streams from Joshua. They go back about 2 years now, and they are very helpful in understanding how things are meant to work. He build his art packages for use in Fantasy Grounds and helps with the tool development, so he is the best source for seeing how they picture things working. Keep in mind the tools have been updated/changed a lot, so some of the issues he talks about in the first streams have been fixed and are no longer a problem.

Here are two to check out to help get started:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/721447880?collection=hA6N-_Ph8xVK1w
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/701295890?collection=hA6N-_Ph8xVK1w

[Rylan Storm]

The vast majority of my maps come from Patreon. There's a lot of work for a DM to do and this is one of those tasks that is easily, and cheaply, outsourced. If you look around you'll find any number of people on Patreon making maps and, when it comes to personal use, you can subscribe for a month and get access to the entire back catalog. That's often an awful lot of content for a $1 sub. There are some that I continue to support each month (Venatus comes to mind) because I love his work so much.

In addition to that most of the map makers will release asset packs allowing you to customize maps or make your own and a lot of them are getting wise to Dungeondraft. They release a DungeonDraft asset pack and you can make your own maps based on their assets very quickly and very cheaply. You then just need to import it to FGU and add LoS.

I'm sorry but the inbuilt map maker just doesn't seem to work as well and is far too costly.