How many extensions and modules would be "too many"?

[similarly]

1. How many extensions and modules do YOU play with?
2. What modules can we turn off and what is the effect?
3. To what degree do extensions and modules affect player experience (i.e. lag)?

My setup:
Win 10 64bit
16gb ram
AMD Ryzen 7 2700x 8-core
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 27070

I'm currently running with:
Extensions: 72 (although a number of these are turned off, such as themes). It's about 41mb of data.
Modules: 136. 1.17 gb of data.

For modules, I've turned off the duplicates, such as SRD and basic rules. I understand I can turn off a lot of stuff that's only used for character creation.

My big worry is always "what if I need that?"

What modules do you turn off and what effect does it have, if any?

Mostly, my experience with FGU, even with tons of stuff turned on, has been excellent, but a couple of times, I've had some weird effects that MIGHT be lag, might be internet inconsistencies, etc.

[mattekure]

I really depends. I currently have about 60 that I have activated for my campaigns. I know DMs who have more and some who have fewer. Most extensions have not had any noticeable impact on performance for me. The number of modules, images, and tokens seem to be a much bigger resource hog.

[damned]

Extensions mostly should not have a big hit on performance. But extensions all change something. The more changes the more likely you are to have something go wrong. I use 1-5 extensions in most games.

[mattekure]

Its important to remember that when using extensions, it is entirely up to the DM to double check that things work as you expect. I always recommend only adding them one at a time and getting to know how they are expected to behave. Each one you add has the potential to affect how FG behaves and performs, and sometimes they can interact in unexpected ways. Unless you are really sure of them, its better to use fewer until you are sure that they work well together.

[SilentRuin]

1. How many extensions and modules do YOU play with?
2. What modules can we turn off and what is the effect?
3. To what degree do extensions and modules affect player experience (i.e. lag)?

My setup:
Win 10 64bit
16gb ram
AMD Ryzen 7 2700x 8-core
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 27070

I'm currently running with:
Extensions: 72 (although a number of these are turned off, such as themes). It's about 41mb of data.
Modules: 136. 1.17 gb of data.

For modules, I've turned off the duplicates, such as SRD and basic rules. I understand I can turn off a lot of stuff that's only used for character creation.

My big worry is always "what if I need that?"

What modules do you turn off and what effect does it have, if any?

Mostly, my experience with FGU, even with tons of stuff turned on, has been excellent, but a couple of times, I've had some weird effects that MIGHT be lag, might be internet inconsistencies, etc.

1) 7 - more than that seems crazy. I tend to add new things I think of into extensions I already have out there unless radically different. The fewer the better.
2) I only turn on modules I'm actively using in a campaign. Only effect is time to load them I think.
3) EXTENSIONS = RISK. This is because FGU can change the underlying code and break them. Other extensions can change the same parts as another extension and break them (or break certain parts you may not immediately notice). Not sure there is lag - but there is TONS of risk. Even if you don't notice it - its there.

Just my opinion.

[Zacchaeus]

I use one theme and two extensions (and one of those will be incorporated into the ruleset soon so I'll then be down to 1) and only have the adventure module that I am currently running open as well as the Core Rulebook (playing a FPRPG2 campaign at the moment). In a 5e game I'd be using the same two extensions and one theme.

Any more than a handful of extensions and you are asking for trouble,

[eriktedesco]

I use one theme and two extensions (and one of those will be incorporated into the ruleset soon so I'll then be down to 1) and only have the adventure module that I am currently running open as well as the Core Rulebook (playing a FPRPG2 campaign at the moment). In a 5e game I'd be using the same two extensions and one theme.

Any more than a handful of extensions and you are asking for trouble,

Which one will be incorporated? ��

[mattekure]

Likely the Message of the Day extension which was included in the current dev channel release for testing

[eriktedesco]

Never heard about it...how does it works?

[mattekure]

MOTD extension is super simple. You have a story entry titles MOTD and when a player logs onto the table it immediately pops up for them. I use it all the time to make sure my players have access to any important info

[eriktedesco]

Could it be used to pop up a resume of the previous session?

[mattekure]

As in reopen all previously open windows? No. MOTD just opens the one message

[eriktedesco]

Well...I was referring to a written summary of the previous session!

[mattekure]

Oh. Certainly. I nearly always include a brief write up of the last session in the MOTD.

[Trenloe]

Details of the Message of the Day extension here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22369-Message-of-the-Day-%28MOTD%29-Extension

I don't know exactly what's been implemented in the upcoming release.

[mattekure]

They added a MOTD button to the options. It opens a formatted text field, just like a story entry. When a player logs on it pops up. Basically works exactly like the extension except it’s not a story entry, it’s its own Window.

[Trenloe]

They added a MOTD button to the options. It opens a formatted text field, just like a story entry. When a player logs on it pops up. Basically works exactly like the extension except it’s not a story entry, it’s its own Window.
Thanks!

[LordEntrails]

No need to load something unless you actually need it. Loading everything you have in case you might be missing something is, imo, the wrong approach. Only load what you need when you need it. If you don't use a source book every session, then don't load it until you actually need it.

Extensions break things. Again, unless I need the function, then I don't load it. Half a dozen or so id imo my limit. But about what I'm running now. For me, that's a lot, but it's also because I' have all of Mad Nomad's extensions in my game, because he's one of my players, so its more that I know any compatibility or functional issues will be identified and solved.

[similarly]

Basically I only use a few extensions outside of a select few creators. I use a couple of extensions from here in the forums that have shown to be very stable and well-supported. Most of what I have is from people who collaborate with Rob Twohy or are from Grim Press. I haven't had many issues, to be honest, and what I had was soon figured out.

[SilentRuin]

Basically I only use a few extensions outside of a select few creators. I use a couple of extensions from here in the forums that have shown to be very stable and well-supported. Most of what I have is from people who collaborate with Rob Twohy or are from Grim Press. I haven't had many issues, to be honest, and what I had was soon figured out.

Wait a second, Grim Press only has one extension devel...

HA! I see what you did there :)

[similarly]

So I've been playing around with FGU again, trying to speed things up. I know I have too many modules loaded. My question is: what can I safely close? If my player (or an npc) has spells or equipment from a book, and unload that book, what happens to those spells or equipment? Does it disappear off the character sheet? What happens if they try to use it? I'm also a bit worried about coming up against a situation I wasn't expecting and suddenly needing a battlemap or an NPC ... but not having stuff loaded up at the time.

I don't have much trouble running the game, but I know the initial load could be faster. Just wondering what's safe to unload.

[SilentRuin]

So I've been playing around with FGU again, trying to speed things up. I know I have too many modules loaded. My question is: what can I safely close? If my player (or an npc) has spells or equipment from a book, and unload that book, what happens to those spells or equipment? Does it disappear off the character sheet? What happens if they try to use it? I'm also a bit worried about coming up against a situation I wasn't expecting and suddenly needing a battlemap or an NPC ... but not having stuff loaded up at the time.

I don't have much trouble running the game, but I know the initial load could be faster. Just wondering what's safe to unload.

Things are just slow on load times since lighting got put in - there may not be a solution.

[LordEntrails]

So I've been playing around with FGU again, trying to speed things up. I know I have too many modules loaded. My question is: what can I safely close? If my player (or an npc) has spells or equipment from a book, and unload that book, what happens to those spells or equipment? Does it disappear off the character sheet? What happens if they try to use it? I'm also a bit worried about coming up against a situation I wasn't expecting and suddenly needing a battlemap or an NPC ... but not having stuff loaded up at the time.

I don't have much trouble running the game, but I know the initial load could be faster. Just wondering what's safe to unload.
99.99 percent sure items are copies, so you can close those references.

Spell actions 99 percent sure are copies, pretty sure spell descriptions are link to the originals.

But don't worry if you close something needed or linked, the player or yourself will just get a message that the module needs to be loaded for the link to load. Nothing will disappear from the character sheet etc and you can then just load the resource and the link will work again. Test it so you are comfortable with how it works.

[similarly]

I closed a bunch of stuff, and it sped up a bit, but not enough to matter. Later I may go through and see if unsharing stuff I no longer need speeds it a bit.

[Trenloe]

So I've been playing around with FGU again, trying to speed things up. I know I have too many modules loaded. My question is: what can I safely close? If my player (or an npc) has spells or equipment from a book, and unload that book, what happens to those spells or equipment? Does it disappear off the character sheet? What happens if they try to use it?
I'm not sure which ruleset you're using. I'll give examples for D&D 5e. In the PC sheet items, spells, abilities, etc. are copies of the original - so you can close the source module without losing access to the data on the PC sheet. The main data that is linked to a module on the D&D 5e character sheets are the race, background and class links - and to a less extent the skill descriptions.

[SilentRuin]

A completely empty 5e project with nothing in it - newly created - will take 18 sec to come up with Intel core i7 5820K, 32GB Ram, and GTX 980. As nothing is in combat tracker it will be come up instantly.

That is the base minimum time.

A fully populated running campaign in 5e with SW5e 2 data mods, 8 extensions, multiple images/maps/assets/NPCs/PCs defined will take 36 seconds. Combat Tracker will take 7 seconds (with about 20 out of 150 NPCs displayed in it).

Gist being you are battling base startup time, image/LOS density startup time, Db.xml loading into data structures startup time, when you come up. Once up bringing up combat tracker and images for the first time will be slow as they also load into memory at various amounts of time.

And since lighting got put in this has all slowed down (when you have lots of data which uses LOS and lighting - both on startup of app - and bringing up of an image for the first time).

[LordEntrails]

A completely empty 5e project with nothing in it - newly created - will take 18 sec to come up with Intel core i7 5820K, 32GB Ram, and GTX 980. As nothing is in combat tracker it will be come up instantly.

That is the base minimum time.
That is going to be dependent upon the amount of image assets you have. Remember, FGU loads all assets upon load of the campaign even if they are not in modules that are being loaded. Plus tokens if you have those in token directories.

[MrDDT]

The biggest issue for sure comes from MODs and Tokens when it comes to resources. Next would # of tokens on a map with LOS.
EXT are conflicting issues and not resource issues normally.

I use 85 exts, I spend a lot of effort outside of sessions to make sure the EXTs are working as they should. When FGU puts out an update that can have an effect on EXT it can take a week or so for me to make sure the EXT I have are working correctly again (or disable the right ones to deal with it). Having said that, most of the EXT's I use are pretty much what makes me want to keep using FGU over another VTT. Without EXTs, I wouldn't be using FGU.

A lot of them have to do with some really basic tools. Some add things that you wont see added later. One of the best things EXTs add for me is the options to put special effects on people. Like effects that can be coded better to remove or turn on when they should, or roll saves when they should without players/DM having to remember or do a save each time.
Some of this takes major prepwork on making sure you know how to do effects on creatures/players. But once you have it set up, it makes it so much better.

I couldn't go back to vanilla FGU, it just doesn't have the tools needed to play a smooth game unless you like to spend a lot of time manually rolling dice and applying effects/damage/saves etc.


I think many people are using large maps, putting LOS, and lighting on a map with a ton of tokens. All this is basic issues that Smite Works really need to work on getting better for lower end systems to not have lag issues. The EXTs have almost no effect on this issue.

[similarly]

The biggest issue for sure comes from MODs and Tokens when it comes to resources. Next would # of tokens on a map with LOS.
EXT are conflicting issues and not resource issues normally.

I use 85 exts, I spend a lot of effort outside of sessions to make sure the EXTs are working as they should. When FGU puts out an update that can have an effect on EXT it can take a week or so for me to make sure the EXT I have are working correctly again (or disable the right ones to deal with it). Having said that, most of the EXT's I use are pretty much what makes me want to keep using FGU over another VTT. Without EXTs, I wouldn't be using FGU.

A lot of them have to do with some really basic tools. Some add things that you wont see added later. One of the best things EXTs add for me is the options to put special effects on people. Like effects that can be coded better to remove or turn on when they should, or roll saves when they should without players/DM having to remember or do a save each time.
Some of this takes major prepwork on making sure you know how to do effects on creatures/players. But once you have it set up, it makes it so much better.

I couldn't go back to vanilla FGU, it just doesn't have the tools needed to play a smooth game unless you like to spend a lot of time manually rolling dice and applying effects/damage/saves etc.


I think many people are using large maps, putting LOS, and lighting on a map with a ton of tokens. All this is basic issues that Smite Works really need to work on getting better for lower end systems to not have lag issues. The EXTs have almost no effect on this issue.

Sincerely, thank you all for explaining this to me. I really appreciate it. I do have a LOT of maps, and some of them are quite big. I usually don't put tokens down until it's time for a battle, so that's not an issue, but I know I've got big maps. Playing isn't a problem. I've had VERY few problems actually running a game. Since I'm playing mostly with people in Australia (I'm in Japan), once in a while, players on slower internet have some issues with maps, but mostly our playtime has been excellent.

[Klandare]

The biggest issue for sure comes from MODs and Tokens when it comes to resources. Next would # of tokens on a map with LOS.
EXT are conflicting issues and not resource issues normally.

I use 85 exts, I spend a lot of effort outside of sessions to make sure the EXTs are working as they should. When FGU puts out an update that can have an effect on EXT it can take a week or so for me to make sure the EXT I have are working correctly again (or disable the right ones to deal with it). Having said that, most of the EXT's I use are pretty much what makes me want to keep using FGU over another VTT. Without EXTs, I wouldn't be using FGU.

A lot of them have to do with some really basic tools. Some add things that you wont see added later. One of the best things EXTs add for me is the options to put special effects on people. Like effects that can be coded better to remove or turn on when they should, or roll saves when they should without players/DM having to remember or do a save each time.
Some of this takes major prepwork on making sure you know how to do effects on creatures/players. But once you have it set up, it makes it so much better.

I couldn't go back to vanilla FGU, it just doesn't have the tools needed to play a smooth game unless you like to spend a lot of time manually rolling dice and applying effects/damage/saves etc.


I think many people are using large maps, putting LOS, and lighting on a map with a ton of tokens. All this is basic issues that Smite Works really need to work on getting better for lower end systems to not have lag issues. The EXTs have almost no effect on this issue.

Glad to see I am not the only one with a lot of EXTs. I have 89 installed (with the Themes and Decals counted) but only 46 enabled. Some are different fonts so only need 1 on and only 1 theme on and maybe 1 decal running (although current campaign is custom background).

[similarly]

Glad to see I am not the only one with a lot of EXTs. I have 89 installed (with the Themes and Decals counted) but only 46 enabled. Some are different fonts so only need 1 on and only 1 theme on and maybe 1 decal running (although current campaign is custom background).

I have a ton of fonts also, maybe around 80, but I'm pretty selective and only get stuff from a few creators who've been awesome about making sure their stuff works with everybody else's. I have to say that the people who are making mods and extensions for fantasy grounds are just awesome. I love how cooperative and productive the community is, and how supportive the community is. The devs as well have always given me such a positive vibe when I ask questions. This is such a great community.

[Zarestia]

Comes down to the rulseset for me:

- I currently use 19 extensions for 3.5e, mainly because it's a pretty crunchy/complex system and one of the older rulesets.
- In my last 5e campaign (CoS) I used about 7 extensions.
- In my PF2e one-shots I have used 0-3 extensions.

As many others pointed out, extensions are not really resource heavy but they can cause errors and weird behaviors.

[similarly]

Since I'm planning on running some campaigns again soon, I thought I'd do some tests and share the results.

PC
AMD Ryzen 7 2700x
16 gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

STARTUP
Clean Campaign: 30 seconds.
No extensions or modules loaded. No images in campaign folder.

Old Campaign (Fully Loaded): 12 minutes
Extensions: 113 (and maybe some more from The Forge hiding in a different folder).
Modules: 352 (loaded everything but SRD mods)
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

Old Campaign (Stripped Down): 28 seconds
No extensions or modules loaded.
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

Old Campaign (No mods): 40 seconds
Extensions: 113 (and maybe more)
Modules: 0 loaded.
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

CONCLUSIONS
Extensions, even a LOT of extensions, don't have a significant impact on load times.
The campaign folder, even with a lot of images, doesn't seem to have a big imact.
Modules slow the start time significantly.

ADVICE
Only load what you need when you need it.

I can confirm that if I load spells or equipment from a module and then unload the module, the spell is fine.
I had an "encounter" with NPCs from a module. "Encounter" was fine, NPCs still loaded. I got a notice in chat that the module wasn't loaded, and if I clicked on the info for the NPC, I got a prompt to activate the module.

It's VERY convenient and well-designed.
I was worried about unloaded all those modules because "what if I need it?" However, it works very well the way it's designed.

[Zarestia]

Since I'm planning on running some campaigns again soon, I thought I'd do some tests and share the results.

PC
AMD Ryzen 7 2700x
16 gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

STARTUP
Clean Campaign: 30 seconds.
No extensions or modules loaded. No images in campaign folder.

Old Campaign (Fully Loaded): 12 minutes
Extensions: 113 (and maybe some more from The Forge hiding in a different folder).
Modules: 352 (loaded everything but SRD mods)
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

Old Campaign (Stripped Down): 28 seconds
No extensions or modules loaded.
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

Old Campaign (No mods): 40 seconds
Extensions: 113 (and maybe more)
Modules: 0 loaded.
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

CONCLUSIONS
Extensions, even a LOT of extensions, don't have a significant impact on load times.
The campaign folder, even with a lot of images, doesn't seem to have a big imact.
Modules slow the start time significantly.

ADVICE
Only load what you need when you need it.

I can confirm that if I load spells or equipment from a module and then unload the module, the spell is fine.
I had an "encounter" with NPCs from a module. "Encounter" was fine, NPCs still loaded. I got a notice in chat that the module wasn't loaded, and if I clicked on the info for the NPC, I got a prompt to activate the module.

It's VERY convenient and well-designed.
I was worried about unloaded all those modules because "what if I need it?" However, it works very well the way it's designed.

Good findings. If you didn't know, you can type /console in chat after loading the campaign to see the load time of every single extension/module/etc.

[Klandare]

Since I'm planning on running some campaigns again soon, I thought I'd do some tests and share the results.

PC
AMD Ryzen 7 2700x
16 gb ram
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

STARTUP
Clean Campaign: 30 seconds.
No extensions or modules loaded. No images in campaign folder.

Old Campaign (Fully Loaded): 12 minutes
Extensions: 113 (and maybe some more from The Forge hiding in a different folder).
Modules: 352 (loaded everything but SRD mods)
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

Old Campaign (Stripped Down): 28 seconds
No extensions or modules loaded.
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

Old Campaign (No mods): 40 seconds
Extensions: 113 (and maybe more)
Modules: 0 loaded.
Campaign folder: 520 mb (131 mb in images).

CONCLUSIONS
Extensions, even a LOT of extensions, don't have a significant impact on load times.
The campaign folder, even with a lot of images, doesn't seem to have a big imact.
Modules slow the start time significantly.

ADVICE
Only load what you need when you need it.

I can confirm that if I load spells or equipment from a module and then unload the module, the spell is fine.
I had an "encounter" with NPCs from a module. "Encounter" was fine, NPCs still loaded. I got a notice in chat that the module wasn't loaded, and if I clicked on the info for the NPC, I got a prompt to activate the module.

It's VERY convenient and well-designed.
I was worried about unloaded all those modules because "what if I need it?" However, it works very well the way it's designed.

A couple of questions.

Does the campaign run any slower if all of the modules are open (other than when the campaign is first opened)? My main campaign takes about 5.5 minutes to open but I have not noticed any slowdown while the campaign runs. The only slowdowns I have ever seen are the same as I have in any campaign (and read on the forums with the same type of issues just as normal system hangs and then comes back fine).

I have run into a time when a module was not opened that it would cause an issue when trying to find something; specifically when using the Character Wizard in 5E. When doing the level up if you do not have all the modules opened that are needed then you might not have access to some things like feats or abilities. The other issue that I have found is that I would forget that I have something available or if say i am trying to create a quick encounter and didn't have all the monster books open then I would be looking for something and not finding what I want.

For me it is just always easier to have all of the available books I might be using in my campaign open all the time. Since I don't open and close the campaign a lot then the slowdown of startup time doesn't cause me much heartache.

Have others experienced differently?

[similarly]

Good findings. If you didn't know, you can type /console in chat after loading the campaign to see the load time of every single extension/module/etc.

Oh! I didn't know that! That's useful. I do know I can always download the console log and check that. I just decided I'd rather play with it than look at the log, but the chat command is useful and a good tip! Thank you!

A couple of questions.

Does the campaign run any slower if all of the modules are open (other than when the campaign is first opened)? My main campaign takes about 5.5 minutes to open but I have not noticed any slowdown while the campaign runs. The only slowdowns I have ever seen are the same as I have in any campaign (and read on the forums with the same type of issues just as normal system hangs and then comes back fine).

I have run into a time when a module was not opened that it would cause an issue when trying to find something; specifically when using the Character Wizard in 5E. When doing the level up if you do not have all the modules opened that are needed then you might not have access to some things like feats or abilities. The other issue that I have found is that I would forget that I have something available or if say i am trying to create a quick encounter and didn't have all the monster books open then I would be looking for something and not finding what I want.

For me it is just always easier to have all of the available books I might be using in my campaign open all the time. Since I don't open and close the campaign a lot then the slowdown of startup time doesn't cause me much heartache.

Have others experienced differently?

Once the campaign was open, I had no problems running it. Opening maps, stories, encounters, etc was fast for me.

Yes, I know from experience that if a module is not open, that data won't show up in the Character Wizard (or when you check the tabs in the sidebar). The trick is to know which modules have important character creation data and have those loaded and ready when players are creating characters and updating or level-up characters. On the Campaign Setup screen (when you load up a campaign or when you click on options in the sidebar and go to setup, you have the data modules screen where you can click to load (in a 5e campaign) 5e-SRD, 5e Basic Rules, 5e Core Rules and 5e - All Rules that will load a set a rules.

I hear what you're saying about trying to find a monster. I just try to remember which modules have the good monsters, good feats, and if possible, just have those loaded before the game.

I try not to do TOO much "on the fly" stuff.

My players didn't seem to mind having to come 10 minutes early and then wait for the game to load. I just felt it would reflect better on smiteworks and fantasy grounds if it loaded faster, so following the advice of the people in this thread seems like a good idea. We can still have stuff loaded that we think we need, but I think it's like packing a suitcase or camping bag: we have to sometimes consider "Do I REALLY need that?"

I agree it IS easier to just have it all open, but I understand how it slows down the game. If 5 minutes, or 10 minutes or 15 minutes loading time is fine with everybody, I don't think it hurts the game to have it all open. In my case, I was just looking for ways to be more efficient and get the game loaded faster. Rethink my setup. Glad I didn't have to dump all those extensions! I love extensions.

I think for my group, personally, the BIGGEST problem was that we had a player on a much older computer with a very, very slow internet, and sometimes the maps wouldn't load for them. It DID get me more interested in the kind of old-school "theater of the mind" style of play that my group used in the 1980s and 1990s when I first started playing, and when my new campaign gets going, I'm going to try bringing back some of that.

[WinterSoldier7]

After reading through this thread, I went back and removed some I had installed but no longer needed. I didn't have that many, maybe about 20, and didn't notice any performance impact, but there were definitely a few that when working together just overcomplicated things for my players. Lots of inventory tweaks that are great on their own, but all together was just providing too much to remember.

Well worth having a regular revaluation if you are someone who adds new ones from time to time.

[Mytherus]

I think I said this elsewhere on these forums in the past but whenever this topic is brought up it makes me think of a player in a game I’ve ran for a while, who also DMs but he is less comfortable with the DM role than I so he asks little advice here and there. Very nice person , good player.

But he’ll send me DMs or even once or twice an email saying “you should use this extension or that extension”. And most are for very simple things. I think he adds an extension or mod for everything. I also thinks I’m basic though he has voiced he likes how I DM , since I tell him no thanks I’ll just do things my way (over an extension). He must have dozens of extensions I’m Leary at the fact I use 10 right now.

[similarly]

Yeah, I hear you. I have way too many extensions. I've sometimes thought of dropping all of them and just going back to plain vanilla, but I've always had an itch to mod software..