Terrain and Doors LoS not working on one particular map

[Geometer]

FG Unity, Curse of Strahd 5e, no extensions loaded.

Any suggestions why this PC can see through "closed" door and terrain LoS as if they weren't there would be much appreciated.

For info; this is one of a bundle of third-party battlemaps for Castle Ravenloft I purchased from Drivethru RPG to which I'm adding LoS data. I haven't finished them all but I've tested and door/terrain LoS works fine on all of them except this particular map. I may have made a mistake somewhere but I can't see any difference between the settings for this map and the others. Any ideas?

[LordEntrails]

Is the door opened? In play mode with LOS on, as DM, click the door, does it close?

[Geometer]

@LordEntrails; all closed and closable.

[LordEntrails]

Can you show the GM view so we can see the occluders? Maybe the door is not a closed polygon?

[Geometer]

Here you go. The door was drawn with the rectangle tool.

[LordEntrails]

Hmm, I don't draw my door or rectangles overlapped with walls like you did, but wouldn't think that would matter. What happens if you reset LOS on the one token? It's only this one map with this one token right?

[Zacchaeus]

Not only is the token seeing through the door but it's also seeing right through two Terrain occluders as well (although the back one isn't actually occluding anything anyway and it isn't clear if the one on the curtain is open or closed).

I'm guessing that the door isn't snapped properly to the walls but it's hard to tell from the screenshot.

[Geometer]

More images:

Everything is a fully closed polygon.

FG 25 is a close-up DM view of the door. I always draw doors like that, they usually seem to work.

FG 26 is the DM view of a door drawn like that on another map.
FG 27 is the Player view of that door closed.
FG 28 is the Player view of that door open.

FG 29 is a zoom out from FG 23. The lower occluder is supposed to be occluding the whole chamber from the rear of the balcony. That might not be the best way of doing it but I'm experimenting and testing, and it should still be occluding something, right?


LordEntrails
Hmm, I don't draw my door or rectangles overlapped with walls like you did, There's another way?

LordEntrails What happens if you reset LOS on the one token? It's only this one map with this one token right? No change after resetting LoS. The token I'm using is my "Test PC" but I've tried it with a Player Token and it's just the same. Yes, so far just the one map.

[Zacchaeus]

Have you by any chance put the door LOS or the wall on a different layer?

[Kelrugem]

Just in case: LoS lines in a layer contained in a folder for layers won't work correctly :) That is a bug currently :) (I skimmed a bit through your screenshots, but didn't find any info about how your layers look like)

[Geometer]

Have you by any chance put the door LOS or the wall on a different layer?

Nope. This is the layer stack for that map:

[Kelrugem]

Nope. This is the layer stack for that map:

The trap layer has seemingly LoS info contained but is only visible for DMs; could it be that you accidentally have put some info in that layer, invisible to players leading to that this LoS info won't be used?

[Geometer]

The trap layer has seemingly LoS info contained but is only visible for DMs; could it be that you accidentally have put some info in that layer, invisible to players leading to that this LoS info won't be used?

I don't know why the Trap has LoS data attached, I certainly didn't add any. It's from the Basic Rules Token pack, converted to a tile and put on the map, I did nothing else to it. No LoS features show as attached to it in LoS view, and it's in a separate part of the map out of the token's FoV, so shouldn't interfere directly with the token's LoS. See FG 32.

[Kelrugem]

I don't know why the Trap has LoS data attached, I certainly didn't add any. It's from the Basic Rules Token pack, converted to a tile and put on the map, I did nothing else to it. No LoS features show as attached to it in LoS view, and it's in a separate part of the map out of the token's FoV, so shouldn't interfere directly with the token's LoS. See FG 32.

As far as I know it is not so easy to see where which LoS is contained. But could you just test that situation again by making that layer also visible to players? (you could also turn on/off the LoS lines of that layer by clicking on its wall button to see whether the door is in that layer accidentally) Such things can quickly happen when one does not check whether and which layer is selected :)

[Geometer]

The trap layer has seemingly LoS info contained but is only visible for DMs; could it be that you accidentally have put some info in that layer, invisible to players leading to that this LoS info won't be used?

Nice one mate, you've cracked it.

FG 37 is with trap visible to DM only; FG 38 is with trap visible to all.

That layer must have been selected when I drew the LoS so they were added to the layer without me realising it. I didn't know you could add to "layers" like that, it might explain some other issues I've had. I shall delete and replace.

Once again, many thanks for your help, Kelrugem and Zacchaeus

[LordEntrails]

Nice catch Kel :)

[Geometer]

Nice catch Kel :)

Seconded.

I would have spotted it eventually (honest!), the trap token is just a marker until I find something more visually appealing to replace it with and it will be deleted in due course, but I would have been left wondering why every door in the catacombs of Ravenloft had also suddenly disappeared! That's an awful lot of doors to redraw in a hurry so I'm glad it's not going to happen :)

I've had some thoughts about this incident and I'd like to make a couple of suggestions for improvements. I'd welcome some feedback before I add them to the wishlist.

As Kelrugem points out, it's very easy, when you're deeply absorbed in mapmaking, to lose track of which mode/view/layer you're working in, and this is a recipe for errors. Part of the problem, I find, is that the only visual indication that you've switched between modes is some inconspicuous changes to some inconspicuous icons tucked away in the top right-hand corner of the page, and easily overlooked. A simple remedy would be to have a permanent border around the map while editing that changes colour according to the mode you're working in, or something along those lines.

At a more detailed level, I've noticed that when you're working in Layers view and you select a tile, the tile is highlighted both on the map and in the layer stack; but if you switch to, e.g. LoS, while that tile is still selected, it remains highlighted in the stack but is no longer highlighted on the map. In other words, there is no on-map visual cue to tell you that you're drawing on to an active layer associated with a tile rather than the LoS layer you think you're drawing on to, if that makes sense. I think this is an oversight, the on-map highlight should persist across all modes, perhaps changing colour according to mode.

I've also noticed, when in the situation where you have an active layer highlighted in the stack but not on the map, that there is no obvious way to deselect that layer other than by either clicking on another layer in the stack or switching out of whatever mode you're in back to Layers, deselecting there, and switching back to the relevant mode. The first is another recipe for errors, the second just a pain. A simple one-click way of deselecting, universal across all modes, views and layers, would be a real boon.

I'm not an IT buff and I've no idea how easy it would be to implement these suggestions, but coming from a CAD background they all seem like basic functionality to me, and I'm quite surprised by their absence.

[Moriarity]

Aah. That explains why I’m having similar problems with DotMM maps that I’ve added more detail to and placed the original layer in a folder. For me, the problem presents itself as Players being unable to pass through open doors until I, as DM drag one of their player icons though - then it begins working as normal... I’ll try taking the LOS maps out of a folder and see what happens.

Edit... Yep, that worked.

[Jiminimonka]

More images:

Everything is a fully closed polygon.

FG 25 is a close-up DM view of the door. I always draw doors like that, they usually seem to work.

FG 26 is the DM view of a door drawn like that on another map.
FG 27 is the Player view of that door closed.
FG 28 is the Player view of that door open.

FG 29 is a zoom out from FG 23. The lower occluder is supposed to be occluding the whole chamber from the rear of the balcony. That might not be the best way of doing it but I'm experimenting and testing, and it should still be occluding something, right?

There's another way?
No change after resetting LoS. The token I'm using is my "Test PC" but I've tried it with a Player Token and it's just the same. Yes, so far just the one map.

I had an issue like this the other day, on a map with lots of layers, and multiple LOS overlapping. I had to put the LOS files outside of folders. I can't remember the exact fix but it was 3am or something.