Critical hit not rolled as critical damage

[Weissrolf]

Ahoi.

We noticed that when a player drags a roll from chat onto a NPC (forgot to target properly) and crits then the next damage roll is not rolled as crit (even if targeted properly before the roll).

[Zacchaeus]

Critical damage will only proc if rolled immediately after the critical hit is rolled. Any other roll made after it will overwrite the critical. So if a hit roll is made on a proper target and it crits then the damage will be critical. If some mistake happens and some other operation comes after the crit then hold SHIFT when doing the damage will make the damage critical.

[Weissrolf]

Thanks, we knew this. Our problem is:

https://i.imgur.com/EE6dEfX.png

[Kelrugem]

Yeah, the drag&drop features from the chat lacks some automation. For example, IFT effects are also ignored (because they cannot be checked since there is then only the information about the target, but not from the actor). In 3.5e it doesn't even say that it is critical when it actually is (critical confirmation turned off for simplicity of testing, with the CC I would certainly not have expected that the drag&drop from chat works correctly, surely difficult to code); so, your tested ruleset actually works better in that regard :D Autohit is also not recognized (nat 20), too, in 3.5e (because it just knows the total of the roll, it forgets the rolled value)

So, think about that such things need to be manually done :) (click shift for forcing a crit for example, as Zacchaeus wrote)

But may depend on ruleset, so, maybe to ask in its forum about that :)

[Weissrolf]

Critical damage will only proc if rolled immediately after the critical hit is rolled.
I demonstrated that this is exactly what we are trying to do, we roll damage immediately after a critical hit roll. This currently does not work when hit rolls are dragged from the chat window.

Is this known behavior and is this expected behavior? Should we wait for a fix or just live with it and forget about it? Whatever the answer, just let us know please.

[Zacchaeus]

We’ll need Moon Wizard to confirm but rolls dragged from the chat don’t have all of the information linked to the original roll from the ct or actions tab. So, yes, I think it is expected behaviour.

[Weissrolf]

Thanks for the reply, we will keep that in mind now. It confused us several times, because in our head we kept getting back to the expectation that it should crit automatically. Like:

"Oh, I forgot to target the NPC for the hit-roll."
"No problem, just drag the roll result to the NPC, target it and then roll damage."
"Hey, it was a critical hit, great! No wait a minute, the damage doesn't fit."
"Ah, yes, seems like it did not automatically do crit damage. But I am sure it worked in the past, did it not? Maybe a bug? Well let's do it manually this time."

[Trenloe]

Auto application of critical damage relies on there being a critical hit logged from a source to a target (stored in the aCritState LUA table in the AttackManager global script package), which is what Kelrugem is eluding to. Note from your chat window example - when you drag/drop the attack the source has changed from the "Testy" actor to the generic "GM" - as the attack from dragged from chat the current chat identifier is used as the name, not the original actor record. Even if the names are the same, the underlying record is different. So when you then roll damage with "testy" there is no combat tracker actor record in the critical table to match against. This is expected behaviour and hasn't changed in the PFRPG2 ruleset from it's release.

Keep this in mind in future - the drag/drop of an untargeted attack is useful to see if it would have hit (although, of course, the original attack roll total wouldn't have taken into account any effects or conditions on the target). Then, if the attack is confirmed as a critical, either use the Critical damage modifier button or hold shift when rolling damage.

[Weissrolf]

Too bad, I would have hoped that the information about the source would be derived from either who dragged the roll or who did the original roll (both of which are accessible from the chat). Good to know for sure now, because it was always a point of uncertainty.

Thanks for the answers!

[Trenloe]

See my edited post above - as the attack is dragged from chat it uses the current chat identity - which even if it has the same name is not the same as a combat tracker actor record, so there is nothing stored in the aCritState table as it's not a valid actor record.

[damned]

Can you drag the attack roll from chat to intended target and then roll damage?

[Trenloe]

Can you drag the attack roll from chat to intended target and then roll damage?
The auto rolling of critical damage doesn't occur because the attack roll dragged from chat doesn't have the original CT actor, only the currently active chat ID. As I mentioned above, this means that the LUA table that tracks criticals can't be updated as it uses the source and target CT records. Full info in post #8.

[Weissrolf]

Still good to know that I am not the only one being confused by this. ;) Thanks again for the explanation.

I do wonder, though. If the chat drag roll does not include the source PC then I suspect that any effects like Hunt Prey (or even MAP from the first untargeted roll) will also not be considered?! So anyone relying on such effects would have to make sure to always use proper targeting.

[Trenloe]

I do wonder, though. If the chat drag roll does not include the source PC then I suspect that any effects like Hunt Prey (or even MAP from the first untargeted roll) will also not be considered?! So anyone relying on such effects would have to make sure to always use proper targeting.
Yes. Both @Kelrugem and I mentioned this above (posts #4 and #8).

[Weissrolf]

Yes, sorry for having a knot in my brain. I read the IFT bit, but did not draw the connection that this would indeed effect our group. So MAP (calculated into the chat-roll already) is fine as long as no special IFT effects apply (like Hunt Prey).